0098386
Suspended
Makes me glad that I live in a country that doesn't care for things like that. You generally just made your own friends and/or partake in activities and sports.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Hazing in my fraternity!!
- Thread starter tkepongo
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Makes me glad that I live in a country that doesn't care for things like that. You generally just made your own friends and/or partake in activities and sports.
Counterfit
macrumors G3
They got sick off of half a fifth each? They were either lightweights or drinking grain alcohol.
Chaszmyr
macrumors 601
a fifth usually refers to spirits which are generally 80 proof. half of a fifth of one of these beverages is the equivalent of almost two bottles of wine, that's quite a bit of alcohol for one person to drink in a short period of time.
Oddly enough, I'm actually wearing letters today (I'm a Kappa Sigma). And it is reading stories like these that disappoint me about some greek organizations. I pledged last semester, and I was not hazed. Period.
The motto in my fraternity (I won't go into how much the term "frat" bothers me) is that brotherhood is not formed by hazing, but by respect...so we spent a lot of time with the brothers in all sorts of situations.
tkepongo, I suggest you talk to your Chapter's advisor, but obviously tread the waters carefully, some people don't always see it the way that you and I do.
The motto in my fraternity (I won't go into how much the term "frat" bothers me) is that brotherhood is not formed by hazing, but by respect...so we spent a lot of time with the brothers in all sorts of situations.
tkepongo, I suggest you talk to your Chapter's advisor, but obviously tread the waters carefully, some people don't always see it the way that you and I do.
themadchemist
macrumors 68030
I recall an amusing story about a Kappa Sigma chapter, at a school that will go unmentioned, involving a flask of alcohol, a beluga whale, and an aquarium to whose board the president of the university belonged.
nbs2
macrumors 68030
In the end, if you are comfortable with risking multiple police incidents and negative press (I don't know what town-gown relations are like), don't do anything.
Otherwise, getting the school or Nationals involved may be the way to go.
"Two Freshmen Hospitalized After Hazing" does have a nice ring to it, though. And yes, forging your signature is a criminal offense.
Otherwise, getting the school or Nationals involved may be the way to go.
"Two Freshmen Hospitalized After Hazing" does have a nice ring to it, though. And yes, forging your signature is a criminal offense.
Abstract
macrumors Penryn
jimN
macrumors 6502a
So, just so I'm clear on this. Two guys got drunk and were sick and now everyone is up in arms about it.
Evidently none of you have ever spent any time in the UK or been a member of a sports team within a UK university. It's quite common for people to drink until they are sick and more often than they'll drink more afterwards, and do it again on numerous occasions. Most teams I've been a part of have asked Freshers to do "mucky pints" which will inevitably result in you being sick and I've seen plenty of people rendered unconscious through alcohol. However, people do this of their own free will and I really don't see the problem with it. Yes, alcohol intoxication can kill but so can cycling, running, playing golf or crossing the road.
Now, had you turned around and stated that they had made them take drugs, sodomised them or made them humiliate themselves my response might be different but in this instance a sense of perspective is required and it seems that none of you have actually been a part of this process. Plus Americans are, as always, prudes about alcohol.
Competing interests: when I started University I didn't drink and refused to drink alcohol at my hockey 'initiation' (for want of a better word). No one had a problem with this, although I did have to drink 2 and a half pints of lemonade in one go instead.
Evidently none of you have ever spent any time in the UK or been a member of a sports team within a UK university. It's quite common for people to drink until they are sick and more often than they'll drink more afterwards, and do it again on numerous occasions. Most teams I've been a part of have asked Freshers to do "mucky pints" which will inevitably result in you being sick and I've seen plenty of people rendered unconscious through alcohol. However, people do this of their own free will and I really don't see the problem with it. Yes, alcohol intoxication can kill but so can cycling, running, playing golf or crossing the road.
Now, had you turned around and stated that they had made them take drugs, sodomised them or made them humiliate themselves my response might be different but in this instance a sense of perspective is required and it seems that none of you have actually been a part of this process. Plus Americans are, as always, prudes about alcohol.
Competing interests: when I started University I didn't drink and refused to drink alcohol at my hockey 'initiation' (for want of a better word). No one had a problem with this, although I did have to drink 2 and a half pints of lemonade in one go instead.
Well, one of the issues here is that they're freshmen in college, which means they're probably around 18 years old, which in the US, is below the legal drinking age. And obviously these guys are lightweights if they got that sick, yet they were forced to drink anyways.
Anyways, I'm so glad I never got caught up in the frat BS. I went to one party my freshman year, found that all of the members were a bunch of condescending douchebags who thought they were better than everyone else because they were in a fraternity. That was enough fraternity experience to last me all 4 years.....
jimN
macrumors 6502a
Well in that case, this is clearly terrible. Out of curiosity how old do you have to be to own a gun in the states? Just so I can get a sense of where the priorities lie in terms of protecting your nation's health.
Of course had they had guns they could have told the pledge master where to go!
devilot
Moderator emeritus
The thing is, with the frat system, it takes peer pressure to a whole new level. It does. It's not just going out to a football game and getting piss drunk w/ people. It's about wanting to be accepted into a group of people who at any given time, can essentially kick you out-- deem you unworthy and say you are no longer welcome there.
It's a nasty time when people are pledging or whatnot and you can be sure that a lot of people go through a lot of unpleasantness to get in to a given house. But of course, not all frats/sororities are very extreme, especially now after all the bad publicity.
And it is more than just a place for folks to get together, hang out, "get laid," or whatever. A lot of these people become friends for life. And it's an instant bond with total strangers-- if they belonged to a different chapter or at a different time. It helps people get jobs, helps get promotions, etc. The greek system is an incredible network for connections.
themadchemist
macrumors 68030
It's free will, and they don't have to drink, it is just a ton of peer pressure. These students really want to be a part of a frat, and doing crap like this is the only way sometimes. Peer pressure and wanting to fit in take precedence over free will when it comes to things like this
jimN
macrumors 6502a
No, I'm trying to ensure that we have a sense of perspective on what is really not that big a deal.
I worry about this place sometimes, we have a thread where someone gets upset because two guys voluntarily got drunk. Another where a guy wants to put on weight and is encouraged to dispense with aerobic fitness in favour of eating 4000 calories a day and start body building, and another where someone has been 'bullied' on the internet. It does make you wonder, or maybe that's just me.
I got hazed a lot when I pledged, but most of it was fairly benign, nothing dangerous or alcohol-related, as I would flatly insist that I didn't drink. Sometimes I got ribbed for it, but the smarter guys would have the others tone it down.
This situation should be resolved within the house first, within the chapter second, and within the context of the university third. Regardless of the negative press many frats get, some of them are decent organizations with decent guys, they just tend to attract unsavory characters from time to time that spoil everything for everyone else.
Alcohol-related hazing is simply uncreative. There are plenty of other ways to fool with people, or build constructive friendships for that matter, that don't involve horrendous piles of vomiting.
Good luck in getting this resolved. More often than not, depending upon the overall composition of the chapter, the majority will realize the stupidity of the event or the oppressive behavior of a member and overrule them (or even censor them). Being "shamed" in this way is a pretty good deterrent to this kind of thing being repeated as well.
Anyhow, good luck.
This situation should be resolved within the house first, within the chapter second, and within the context of the university third. Regardless of the negative press many frats get, some of them are decent organizations with decent guys, they just tend to attract unsavory characters from time to time that spoil everything for everyone else.
Alcohol-related hazing is simply uncreative. There are plenty of other ways to fool with people, or build constructive friendships for that matter, that don't involve horrendous piles of vomiting.
Good luck in getting this resolved. More often than not, depending upon the overall composition of the chapter, the majority will realize the stupidity of the event or the oppressive behavior of a member and overrule them (or even censor them). Being "shamed" in this way is a pretty good deterrent to this kind of thing being repeated as well.
Anyhow, good luck.
themadchemist
macrumors 68030
Whatever you would say about the other threads, I am going to contend that is wholly irresponsible to suggest that binge drinking is A OK. It's dangerous--in the short term, it can kill you, and it certainly lands plenty of people in the hospital every day; in the long term, habitual drinking of alcohol can kill your liver. We all know this, and I think it is unfortunate that any of us would undermine the significance of coercing people to do activities that are patently, immediately, and certainly unhealthy, simply because they happen frequently enough to have become normative.
morally speaking, i think you should report them to your school's admin. but honestly, while i don't endorse underage drinking, alcohol is a big part of most fraternities (and perhaps college life). did you not realize that when you joined or someone really ticked you off? greek life may not be for you if you are gonna have problem w/ drinking.
personally, i don't care for greek life. it seemed fun but i was reluctant to join cos of the the peer pressure and the d-bag factor. then my scholarship came through and it required me to not be involved in any kind of greek life, lol.
personally, i don't care for greek life. it seemed fun but i was reluctant to join cos of the the peer pressure and the d-bag factor. then my scholarship came through and it required me to not be involved in any kind of greek life, lol.
themadchemist
macrumors 68030
It doesn't seem like the OP is concerned with drinking per se so much as a flagrant disregard for restraint and common sense.
themadchemist
macrumors 68030
I'm gonna say getting an underaged person so drunk he passes out and then leaving him alone during an organized activity for which you are responsible is a pretty unequivocal lack of common sense.
correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe that neither of the frosh actually passed out. besides, we are going in circles here - i mention underage drinking and you bring up common sense. and when i address CS you mention UD.
as i've pointed out, drinking is part of most fraternities. morally speaking; however, the OP should take it to the school's admin.
as i've pointed out, drinking is part of most fraternities. morally speaking; however, the OP should take it to the school's admin.
jimN
macrumors 6502a
I'm not suggesting that binge drinking is "A OK" but there's a good deal worse that goes on without anyone getting too worked up about it. Yes it can kill you but so can a great many other things and, whilst the dangers of chronic alcohol abuse are well proven, this kind of experience is not going to leave these guys as alcoholic bums with cirrhotic livers in ten years time. In this instance this might be the only time in the year that these two get this drunk, who knows. They may be under-21 but they are at least 18 and adult enough to vote, fight wars and marry so I wouldn't worry too much about them.
The level of coercion involved in this case has not been established, the original poster never stated to what extent these two were forced to do it. If they undertook this experience voluntarily, albeit with a motivation to become part of a group, that really is their business as adults. I'm not saying it's right, but I am saying it happens and that perhaps a sense of proportion is required.