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And we all realize the ISPs are just going to respond with more expensive bandwidth, right? They're gonna make you pay one way or another...

Yep, been saying this for years. Most of the content providers own or are owned by ISPs. If everyone drops their cable/satellite bill, internet will just go up so that you still end up paying ~$150/mo either way. :rolleyes:
 
Data caps get lower

Don't worry the cable co's are ready for this. Legislation passed a few (2or3) years ago re throttling & caps.

Mark my words data caps will get lower and throttling will get worse as streaming increases they will make up the difference with overage charges.

PS. The throttling and caps will be will be out of portion to the data usage increases and network bandwidth. So don't give me the its to preserve network quality garbage .:eek:

It was a bad idea to let cable co's & TV co's be one big company hint hint
 
We do??? What Apple did with iTunes starting in 2002 or so suggests exactly the opposite. Plenty of us are happy buying songs a la carte. It's a million times better than being forced to buy a whole album with 1 good song and 11 junk songs for $15.99 as was the case in the 1990's. What we really want is the option. Let people have the choice to go a la carte or flat rate. That's better than the one size fits all approach that, so far, has only benefitted cable and satellite providers and not consumers.

You said 2002, which is exactly what I mean. That is now an over decade old model. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe articles in the past have mentioned declining music sales, declining iTunes sales, while streaming services have gone way way up. And is partly why Apple wanted Beats.

I am with you though. I misspoke when I said a la carte. I was referring more to an entire album sale for $10 vs all you can stream for $10. I didn't take into account $1 for an individual song. That freedom is nice. Also, I buy CDs still for my favorite artists and I enjoy "collecting" them.
 
Seems to be working for me. I stopped paying for "cable" 3 years ago. And now HBO is ready to offer me ala carte.

In small numbers many things can work. However, if everyone stopped paying for cable, cable would make up for the losses on broadband.

So good for you but that approach won't work for everyone. If we all stop paying, it all goes away. It doesn't keep on coming whether we all are paying or not.
 
They are limiting the initial release to 14 markets. But they aren't clear if they are limiting signups to ZIP codes in each of these markets only or if anyone across the country could signup for a feed from one of those 14 markets? Can subscribers then switch their feed?

I'm sure it will be market-bound. The only way this would be acceptable to local affiliates is to promise that the same eyeballs will see the same ads either way. Doesn't do the car dealership any good to serve an ad to someone three states away.
 
I'm sure it will be market-bound. The only way this would be acceptable to local affiliates is to promise that the same eyeballs will see the same ads either way. Doesn't do the car dealership any good to serve an ad to someone three states away.

Most people would subscribe to their local feed anyways. But if someone three states away wants to pay money for (say, their hometown) feed; CBS can easily discount them from their ad-buy pricing to the car dealership; yet collet $5.99 each month they wouldn't be getting.. I don't see a downside.
 
They're not gonna shrink your bill if you don't want The Food Network or Nickelodeon or BET.

I think of cable subscriptions like a buffet at a restaurant: the buffet cost $10 and it has 50 items.

But they won't let you pay $5 and only choose 25 of the items.

It's all or nothing.

By "They" you mean the cable companies right? This is a terrible analogy.

What this change means is that people won't have to go to the cable companies anymore. People will be able to go directly to the source. Using your analogy, think of it more like cutting the restaurant out of the picture and going directly to the factory that makes chick-balls. All that factory needs is a way to efficiently collect your money and deliver you chicken balls. And if you want an egg roll you go to a different factory.

Devices like ATV facilitate this - yes, there is obviously a cost to delivery, but it's nowhere near the cost that cables companies charge to bundle and deliver all the content you want (and don't want). And to boot - maybe the fringe channels that hardly anyone wants will cost more, and the people who really want them can really pay for them. Or, those channels can go die somewhere.
 
By "They" you mean the cable companies right? This is a terrible analogy.

What this change means is that people won't have to go to the cable companies anymore. People will be able to go directly to the source. Using your analogy, think of it more like cutting the restaurant out of the picture and going directly to the factory that makes chick-balls. All that factory needs is a way to efficiently collect your money and deliver you chicken balls. And if you want an egg roll you go to a different factory.

Devices like ATV facilitate this - yes, there is obviously a cost to delivery, but it's nowhere near the cost that cables companies charge to bundle and deliver all the content you want (and don't want). And to boot - maybe the fringe channels that hardly anyone wants will cost more, and the people who really want them can really pay for them. Or, those channels can go die somewhere.

Yes... I was referring to the cable companies.

You pay for 200 channels... even if you only watch a fraction of them. It is a big "buffet" of channels. Some would say too many channels, right? You can't possibly watch them all... yet you're paying for them all.

I agree that it would be cool to cut the cable company out of the loop completely... and just choose the channels you want on your Apple TV.

Let's say you only wanted 5 channels and they were $5 a piece. Your bill would be $25 a month. Simple. That sounds much better than paying $50 for the 200 channels you might not be watching.

But if it was $10 a month per channel... then you'd be paying $50 for 5 channels.

That sounds like less of a deal.
 
Most people would subscribe to their local feed anyways. But if someone three states away wants to pay money for (say, their hometown) feed; CBS can easily discount them from their ad-buy pricing to the car dealership; yet collet $5.99 each month they wouldn't be getting.. I don't see a downside.

CBS doesn't bill the car dealerships... the local affiliates do, and they are desperately clinging to every eyeball because they saw what happened to the radio industry when users moved from local markets to national internet feeds for their music. CBS can't afford to piss off the affiliates, so it will be market bound. No doubt.
 
I can only speak for myself, but I imagine there are others who are like-minded. My beef with cable isn't only the price, it's the advertisements and the quality.

At least with spotify, when I pay them $120/year I get an add-free experience, and the artist is paid per play. So the content-producer is rewarded directly based on how much I like that content.

With cable, when I pay then neary $1500/year I get commercials nearly for 20-30 minutes per hour, and my money is distributed to all the content producers using some invisible formula regardless of what I like or watch. The commercials actually piss me off the most - I feel like I'm paying a over a grand to just be sold do. F that. This is also why I refuse to subscribe to Hulu - ads or fee, you can't have both.

Exactly. The ad format is what kills me. I agree 100% regarding Hulu+. Watching shows ad free makes a huge difference. I own an apple Tv, have cable w/DVR, HBO, Hulu+, Amazon Prime, and Netflix. For both my wife and I we always end up on Netflix/Amazon Prime or HBO go because of the format. AD free, watch when we want, no recording/fast forwarding required.

The idea that we have to "tune in" at a specific time in 2014 is ridiculous. Sure I would like to pay less for my content, but more importantly I would like to see the format improve. Obviously Apple and the other big companies have the resources, and are just waiting to pounce.

I think HBO (who is owned by Cable) is starting to get worried about the quality of the "Original Content" that Netflix (House of Cards) and AmazonPrime (Transparent) are starting to produce. These shows are on par with that of HBO content. It's only a matter of time...

We just need NFL...
 
We don't know how many viewers pay for cable or satellite now mainly to get HBO.

We don't but I don't' think that many are paying all that money only to access one channel. As I said, if they're subscribing to cable and HBO, there are probably a few more bundled channels on cable they're willing to pay for besides just HBO that they can't get any other way.
 
We don't but I don't' think that many are paying all that money only to access one channel. As I said, if they're subscribing to cable and HBO, there are probably a few more bundled channels on cable they're willing to pay for besides just HBO that they can't get any other way.

Hard to know, but I do know that many take cable just to get the in-market sports coverage they want to watch. They have no choice, given the lack of alternatives. Until now, they had a similar lack of choice for HBO programming. This was the only premium station we ever added to our cable package (now we have none). Anyway, my only point here is that I'd wait for the details on what programming HBO is actually offering and for how much before declaring this to be the beginning of the end of channel bundling.
 
Feeling special do we?
The "rest of the world" can just use a vpn or dns service like they did when Netflix was US only.

Yeah, but there's no reason why this isn't a world-wide option, except they want to keep their awful (for consumers) distribution model as long as possible. Greedy b'ards...
 
In small numbers many things can work. However, if everyone stopped paying for cable, cable would make up for the losses on broadband.

So good for you but that approach won't work for everyone. If we all stop paying, it all goes away. It doesn't keep on coming whether we all are paying or not.
I don't pay cable for my 50Mbps connection, either. They are dinosaurs, and like misogynists and General Motors, they need a comeuppance. The biggest mistake in this industry was letting cable companies buy networks and studios.
 
There is a significant difference between traditional cable and streaming.
For traditional cable the cable company needed to invest into cables and install them all over the cities, suburbs and anywhere they wanted and were "allowed" to participate.
With streaming all you need is love and a decent internet speed connection, nowadays you can get some of this almost anywhere in the urban areas of the world. The big infrastructure investment for the Internet connection is already paid by the ISPs and the subscribers. Decoupling the TV service from the cable service and also not amking it ISP dependent is a great opportunity to resell content already paid to millions of people.
Now what I would like to see is a company to step up their game and provide an integral online service that includes wireless data and home connection for $100/month that I can use anywhere I go, including certain other countries without paying roaming fees, and without any data caps and tolls and gimmicks.
Time will come when the kids of today start being the main quantity of people that never subscribed or paid for cable not Internet and the traditional business models will start to feel the need to change.

Paid subscription services with the forever commercials seem to be sustainable: Hulu plus and all other streaming services from cable providers. I don't have any data but how they are proliferating is a good sign. I hate he commercials. Netflix and Amazon Prime don't give you the commercials but they make money too.
Steaming services have even more commercials than traditional TV. Some people make a good amount of money from YouTube and Google ads, these business models have no boundaries in comparison to traditional cable and ISP infrastructure.
 
I don't pay cable for my 50Mbps connection, either. They are dinosaurs, and like misogynists and General Motors, they need a comeuppance. The biggest mistake in this industry was letting cable companies buy networks and studios.

Again good for you. That transforms your amazing solution from a "if everyone did that" to a "if everyone could do that". In other words, you just made it impossible for the masses to copy your situation as most of us have to pay for at least the broadband portion of the arrangement.

If by comeuppance, you mean the industry must find a new model where we consumers pay nothing or nearly nothing for a cable equivalent AND we consumers pay nothing or nearly nothing for broadband service, you're visualizing a "pigs flying/hell freezing over" scenario AND/OR the complete death of the production of new TV shows and probably movies too.

One more time: good for you to have no-cost/low-cost television and no-cost broadband. Enjoy it while you can. It will not last if the masses try to do the same.
 
Again good for you. That transforms your amazing solution from a "if everyone did that" to a "if everyone could do that". In other words, you just made it impossible for the masses to copy your situation as most of us have to pay for at least the broadband portion of the arrangement.

If by comeuppance, you mean the industry must find a new model where we consumers pay nothing or nearly nothing for a cable equivalent AND we consumers pay nothing or nearly nothing for broadband service, you're visualizing a "pigs flying/hell freezing over" scenario AND/OR the complete death of the production of new TV shows and probably movies too.

One more time: good for you to have no-cost/low-cost television and no-cost broadband. Enjoy it while you can. It will not last if the masses try to do the same.
Wow, you just really like putting words in people's mouths this week. I actually thought you'd agree with me, but you've made yourself sound like a Comcast exec, instead. I am fully aware that my situation can change for the worse any second. Although, I now have 100Mbps available if I choose, Tivo lowered its prices, and HBO is rediscovering its roots, so it's been mostly positive so far. Hulu is still pretty annoying.

I want the end of govt-supported monopolies destroying the industry. Your apocalyptic results are going to happen, anyway, the way Comcast and others are killing it. Just like the music industry. Just like Walmart. The problem is the middleman, they are taking over and ruining everything. Including pricing, content quality, etc.

And how on earth did you assume I don't have to pay for broadband?
 
I'm certainly not a cable exec- just a realist. And I DO agree with you on the whole bit about monopolies, though I have zero faith the GOV will do anything about that.

If you think I'm putting words in your mouth, I'm sorry- that's not the intent. I just read your posts- apparently misinterpreting your posts- along the general line of thinking that implies cutting the cable can work for the masses. Apparently it works for your wants & needs right now and that's great. Others too have cut the cord and found alternatives good enough for their own wants & needs. I just don't see it working for the masses as it is currently working for guys like you. If the masses all get big savings by making such a switch, the machinery that keeps the new shows coming will feel the pain. The risk to make entirely new shows will go up considerably. And so on.

Subbing in someone like Apple as a new middleman in place of Comcast doesn't automatically translate to huge savings for us consumers- just a new middleman. And an Apple solution is still going to completely rely on a Comcast, etc pipe to work. So it's really like piling an Apple on top rather than substituting. I don't see how that can translate into big savings for the source of the money- us- EXCEPT in circumstances for select pockets of people- like perhaps you- that can be happy with the programming they can get that way.

I for one like live sports. Live sports don't work well with a Netflix or Hulu subscription. Some of it can be over-the-air but much of it is not run on the local channels. I don't expect al-a-carte ESPN or TNT channels to arrive for next-to-nothing. Instead, I'd expect pretty hefty premiums for the most desirable channels to make up for the cheaper pricing of the less desirable channels that "no one ever watches". The end goal will be to grow the average monthly revenue per household; else why should the rest of the chain even bother to try to adopt al-a-carte.

And how on earth did you assume I don't have to pay for broadband?

I don't pay cable for my 50Mbps connection, either.

...which reads to me that either you don't pay for 50Mbps broadband OR you're leaning on some entity other than a cable provider for it. If the latter- which now sounds like it- and that option has no money to lose on their cable business being replaced by some kind of al-a-carte fantasy model (as would be the case for many broadband providers such as Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, Time Warner and so on), again good for you. Many of us don't have an alternate broadband choice like that.

I happen to be fortunate to have a whopping 2 choices for broadband fast enough to support an al-a-carte fantasy. The providers? Comcast or AT&T Uverse. BOTH have cable TV businesses running through that same pipe. If an al-a-carte alternative starting biting into their cable business while depending on their broadband pipes, I have complete confidence that broadband rates would go up to make up the revenue difference. Why wouldn't they? And the GOV isn't going to do anything.

So good for you. It sounds like you are in a narrow exception situation where you have a broadband provider who may not need to make up for anything in an al-a-carte scenario AND you are satisfied with what you can get via cord-cutting options available now. I wish that would work for me.
 
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I wish there was a one stop shop for all TV show and movie content in a subscription package. Everyone is releasing their own app, their own interface and moving from one TV show to another means I have to quit say Netflix and open Amazon Prime/HBO/etc.

Maybe this where Apple will make things easier when they get the deals they've been after for a while with the Apple TV. You choose who you want to subscribe to, and Apple will collate all the available TV shows and movies you can view into one nice, simple application/interface.

I just get a massive headache when I try use On Demand services in the UK - Sky has the BBC iPlayer, ITV Player, 4oD etc on their set top box, but it's such a pain to switch between each one. I just want a list of all the TV shows I care about, and when I can watch the next episode (and a column to show who the TV network is to keep them happy).
 
Kilamite, if I was guessing what Jobs meant by "I cracked it", I think what you just posted is most likely it. I can see that being something Apple could try to tackle. I think they could do that well and that kind of fits the overall idea of how something like the al-a-carte dream could be realized (except the part of us all getting a huge discount in our monthly bills and still getting everything we all want to watch).

But I also see that as a piling-on option rather than Apple replacing a Sky or a Comcast, etc UNLESS one happens to have a broadband provider that doesn't have a cableTV business to lose to someone like Apple. Here in the U.S., many of us have as little as one choice for broadband and it's often the same company that provides cable TV. We have competition for the television service part even if there is only 1 provider in the form of Sky-like satt-based options such as DirecTV and Dish.

But broadband is typically only available from the very same player who would feel the financial pain if an Apple could replace them as a cableTV-like middleman. Thus, I would expect them to make up for that loss by increasing the cost of broadband because there would be nowhere else to go to make an Apple replacement option work. If not an across-the-board price increase, I would expect then to implement a tiered system much like U.S. cellular players where the "heavier users" slide into higher tiers and pay more. Interestingly many of those cellular players who have implemented those tiered systems are the very same cableTV players for much of the country... so they are already familiar- even accustomed- to thinking that way about maximizing the tolls on data.

So I can see what you are saying coming together- even Apple as a likely company to do it. It may be soon or it may be years but we'll probably get there. It could get done very quickly if it was obvious how everyone else in the chain (beyond us consumers) was going to make MORE money by making such a change. That's the part- especially against the common consumer backdrop of perceiving al-a-carte as getting everything "we" want at a huge discount- that is probably the biggest obstacle to things already being that way. I'm confident at least the satt companies could already serve up al-a-carte (probably for many years now) pretty much exactly as you describe if there was more money in that kind of model.
 
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...which reads to me that either you don't pay for 50Mbps broadband OR you're leaning on some entity other than a cable provider for it.
Centurylink. Not exactly a fan of theirs, but I do generally prefer DSL to cable for consumer plans. And it works. $70/month, 50Mbps.

And my luck is better than you think. I now have access to at least 100Mbps, I've talked to others just miles away that can't even go over 20Mbps. Haven't decided if it is worth the extra cost, yet.
 
Add the approx. 10 channels "we" want at realistic al-a-carte pricing and I would expect that typical 10 channel package to be about 30% higher than the current national average at about $70/month per household PLUS making up for this $54/month to deliver commercial-free. In other words, 200 channels bundled at about $70 or 5, 10 or maybe 15 al-a-carte channels at about $100/month PLUS about $54/month.

This is still a better deal that i can buy now. Why? because the channels we wanted were only available in the 400 tier and it costs, when we had it, $170/month.
 
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