HDD reasonable lifespan and EU law

nzlucas

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 21, 2010
53
0
London
So my Mac mini hdd just died 3 days out of warranty and apple are asking £150 to fix it.

I have the right to assume resonable quality but I have to prove it. Is there any way of delving through any logs to show the HDD was having issues from the beginning?

Would you assume 2yrs would be resonable based on this paper. http://static.googleusercontent.com/external_content/untrusted_dlcp/research.google.com/en//archive/disk_failures.pdf

The computer is just bootable still but probably won't be soon. So any logs that can still be extracted probably still can be now.

Any similar stories welcome
 

Kebabselector

macrumors 68030
May 25, 2007
2,812
1,095
Birmingham, UK
The problem is with retailer who sold it to you. Goods in the UK have to be fit for purpose - just over a year isn't. Contact your local council trading standards dept for advice. The retailer may talk about their policy, but you are protected by law.

(As it's a HDD it'll only cost you £40-50 to replace it yourself)
 

Jbart610

macrumors newbie
Apr 23, 2012
3
0
The problem with this is that 1 year falls within the manufacturer's MTBF. If you pull the hard drive, you can probably get a *very* easy replacement from the mfr, who usually warrants for 5 years at retail. Just a thought.
 

nzlucas

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 21, 2010
53
0
London
Success! After writing a less then complimentary review of my genius bar appointment i promptly get a call from a supervisor and the decision has reversed apon further consideration. That's better service IMHO.
 
Last edited:

Gav2k

macrumors G3
Jul 24, 2009
9,217
1,586
Trading standards will tell you that due to the fact it's a portable device the hdd could suffer a knock and fail sooner!!

As for removing the drive well that's pointless the sn from the batch will be registrared with the company as a oem unit which carries no additional warranty with them.
 

philipma1957

macrumors 603
Apr 13, 2010
6,271
191
Howell, New Jersey
The problem with this is that 1 year falls within the manufacturer's MTBF. If you pull the hard drive, you can probably get a *very* easy replacement from the mfr, who usually warrants for 5 years at retail. Just a thought.
Apple has this stopped. I know having been in this spot that the op was it is not under more then a 1 year warranty. Unless you buy apple care.
 

blanka

macrumors 68000
Jul 30, 2012
1,549
3
Go to your retailer, and tell him that he has to fix it for the reasonable lifespan (2-3 years), but the price for the service goes more towards your cost near the end of that span.
So you make an offer:
- Buy a new HDD and SSD, and let the reseller take care of the placement. Guess that is a very good deal.
 

theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
6,963
83
Poole, England
Apple has this stopped. I know having been in this spot that the op was it is not under more then a 1 year warranty. Unless you buy apple care.
In the EU consumers have a 2 year warranty regardless of what the manufacturer says. Apple will honour this if you mention it and they have a page on this hidden away somewhere within the store website. I can't remember how to navigate to the page off-hand.
 

Chippy99

macrumors 6502a
Apr 28, 2012
973
27
The problem is with retailer who sold it to you. Goods in the UK have to be fit for purpose - just over a year isn't. Contact your local council trading standards dept for advice. The retailer may talk about their policy, but you are protected by law.

(As it's a HDD it'll only cost you £40-50 to replace it yourself)
I know you are trying to be helpful and I don't mean to sound over critical, but it's important to get your facts straight if you are going to offer advice like this.

Under UK law, goods must be conform to their desription, be fit for the purposes for which they were sold and also be of "satisfactory quality".

However, there are two issues with this latter obligation. (1) there is no stipulation as to what that actually means in terms of the goods' durability and it is certainly not true that "just over a year" is unacceptable. You could argue that this is the case, but it is not a given. (2) The obligation exists at the time of sale, not afterwards. It is up to the buyer to show that at the time of sale, the goods were not of satisfactory quality. Clearly this is not always easy to do. You can argue that it is not reasonable for the goods to fail after (say) 13 months and that there must have been some inherent fault at time of sale, else the goods would not have failed. But you may or may not win the argument in court, depending on the view the court takes.

Later European legislation sought to clarify the position and now any faults found within 6 months of purchase are deemed to have been present at the time of purchase, so in this case there is no onus of responsibility on the part of the buyer to show that the fault was there at time of purchase.

@Jbart: Hardly any consumer drives come with a 5 year warranty. In fact I know of none that do.

@OP: Good to hear you got a favourable outcome.
 

Chippy99

macrumors 6502a
Apr 28, 2012
973
27
Really, if I spend £500 on a computer it should last more than just over 12 months. I can understand if were talking about £20 toaster.
You're probably right, but my point is there is no black and white in these matters. A sense of reasonableness applies and the courts will base their judgement on what seems reasonable, or not. They might decide that computers are quite prone to breaking (hence maintenance contracts) and it's tough luck.

Incidentally, it cuts both ways (forgive me if you know this already - you may well do). The sellers responsibilities and liabilities under the Sale of Goods Act last for 6 years. So you can sometimes get repairs or compensation when your goods break *way* after 1 year. For example, I doubt many people would think it reasonable that an Omega watch should only last 1 year. If you bought an Omega and it stopped working in 3 or 4 years time, you would likely be on very solid ground to get a free repair, replacement or compensation.
 

nzlucas

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 21, 2010
53
0
London
Under UK law, goods must be conform to their desription, be fit for the purposes for which they were sold and also be of "satisfactory quality".
buyer to show that the fault was there at time of
I completely agree that this a grey area and Apple even stated very clearly their stance on the warrenty information page.

I found this paper online which i was going to try and use if I needed to defend myself. It's a bit tenuous but from reading this I would expect a harddrive to last at least 2yrs and although my computer was outside the period you could consider for 'infant mortality' it failed before what I would consider a resonable lifespan. Have a look it's quite interesting. http://static.googleusercontent.com/external_content/untrusted_dlcp/research.google.com/en//archive/disk_failures.pdf

Cheers
 

Chippy99

macrumors 6502a
Apr 28, 2012
973
27
To be honest mate, Apple are sufficiently reputable a company that I am sure you will get a free repair if you ask nicely. And if not nicely, then at least persistently. And if that fails, then threateningly! "Either repair this, or I will see you in court" would do the trick, I am 100% positive. But I also very very very confident it would not get that far. Just tell them that you want it repaired under the terms of the Sale of Goods Act as you do not believe the item you received was of satisfactory quality. Someone in Apple will agree to this, I am certain.