Hello, first post, LaserWriter question.

Discussion in 'Apple Collectors' started by PaulHigg, Nov 23, 2013.

  1. PaulHigg macrumors member

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    #1
    Hello, my first post here.

    I have a Mac SE which I restored and upgraded to an SE with 4 MG RAM, replaced the logic board and the floppy so now it's capable of reading and writing HD floppies, and replaced the internal HD.

    I have a LaserWriter Select 360. If the pictures show on this site you'll notice the streak on the page on the right. I got this printer last week from Ebay and cleaned it and replaced the toner cart right away and printed the left sheet, the right was printed tonight after the printer just sat for a few days. Any idea why this happens with laser printers? I have the Apple service manual and can take it apart but if I don't know what causes this I don't know what to look for. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks.

    Paul

    [​IMG]
     
  2. velocityg4 macrumors 68040

    velocityg4

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  3. PaulHigg thread starter macrumors member

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    #3
    What exactly does the drum do?
    Is it easy to replace?
    Any idea where I can buy one?

    Thanks again.

    Paul in Atlanta
     
  4. MacTech68, Nov 23, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013

    MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #4
    If you have another toner cart, try swapping that in and print a few pages.

    If the problems go away, then obviously it's the toner cartridge.

    The toner cartridge contains the drum (imaging drum) and it is coated with a photo-sensitive compound which allows the formation of the image to be printed.

    Sadly, it seems Fuji Xerox never noted in their service manuals something that proved very handy in troubleshooting recurring marks on a printed page. That is the "roller diameters".

    If you measure the distance between the same location of a recurring vertical mark on the page, that gives you the diameter of the roller causing the problem.

    The recurring dot in the center of your page will be caused by a single mark on one roller, possibly in the toner cart or the fuser assembly.

    If a new cartridge doesn't remove that recurring dot then I'd suspect the fuser assembly.

    The dark banding my be a high voltage contact problem - either the toner cartridge itself or the large metal contacts inside the printer near the ends of the toner cartridge - they may need to be cleaned.
     
  5. PaulHigg thread starter macrumors member

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    #5
    Thank you for that wealth of information.
    I already tried a new toner cartridge so that rules that out.
    It looks like it could be one of several bad parts.
    How do I determine which one as I don't have parts for it.
    Any idea where I could find parts?
    So I could have a bad cart, fuser, or dirty contacts.
     
  6. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #6
    Did any of the marks change with the cartridge swap? I see two faults,

    1. Vertical dark banding (probable high voltage charge problem)

    2. Vertical recurring dots approx centre of page. (marked or dirt "splodge" on a roller)
     
  7. PaulHigg thread starter macrumors member

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    #7
    This is a brand new cart, when I first got it the entire page was banded but I don't remember if there were and spots. I tossed it so what's in there now is all I have.

    So it looks like I have to clean the high voltage contacts but how do I clean the roller?

    I can take it apart with the service manual which is quite good.

    Are there any electrical hazards like dissembling an SE? I always discharge the CRT anode even though I know the flyback discharges it, I then check with a fluke meter, spent my life in aircraft avionics so I am always very cautious. I don't see how there could be anything in there that contains any high voltage except maybe some caps?
     
  8. tdiaz macrumors 6502

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    #8
    The service documents will usually give an area to pinpoint where to look based on the distance between the repeating of the same pattern on the printout.

    Since that indicates the roller that's causing it by the diameter.

    It appears to me that there's an impurity on a surface that is causing toner to stick to it, which is usually all encompassing into the toner cartridge. But you say you switched them..
     
  9. PaulHigg thread starter macrumors member

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    #9
    Thank you but I don't see that in the service manual, I have the official Apple one which is hundreds of pages long. Could you perhaps give me a page number?

    Thanks.
     
  10. tdiaz macrumors 6502

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    Feb 7, 2006
    #10
    I'm not as familiar with the later models, though it seems they've lessened the amount of real information in the manuals.

    That uses the same engine as the Fuji-Xerox XP-10, and perhaps a service manual from another vendor using that same engine has more detail.

    Here's a fairly detailed manual for the DEC Laser 3500 which is also based on that engine.

    http://manx.classiccmp.org/collections/mds-199909/cd3/printer/d35pssga.pdf
     
  11. PaulHigg thread starter macrumors member

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    #11
    Thank you. I JUST finished printing the Apple manual and it was huge, I used almost a ream of paper. It's very intensive so I have a lot to look at, it has excellent troubleshooting trees.

    I can't believe this only has 2300+ pages where I have seen some people on forums say theirs's is still printing after 250,000(!) pages.

    I'm sure I'll figure it out but where oh where to get parts?

    Anyone know?
     
  12. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #12
    Well, I've not seen the Dec manual before, thanks tdiaz.

    Using that, it is evident that the drum is 95mm circumference and the fuser roller and fuser pressure roller are 72mm.

    Scaling the printed image to a US-Letter page gives the recurring spot as approximately 98mm which leads me to believe that your problem is --- The Toner Cartridge. :eek:

    If your "new" toner cartridge doesn't have any warranty, you might be extremely lucky and be able to clean the drum.

    Be warned, the drum inside the toner cartridge is sensitive to UV light so don't do this allowing sunlight to shine on the drum. Flip open the drum door to check the drum (a large green or blue roller) for dark spots or marks in the same horizontal location as your dots. You may need to manually rotate the drum to check it's entire surface. Use a soft, lint free cloth to clean the surface. Do not scratch the drum as this will leave marks on the printed image. Do this in an area where dropped toner won't cause grief.

    Ultimately a new cartridge would be a better option but I've had a few occasions where gently cleaning the drum surface has worked.

    As for parts, it was always difficult in my location since Fuji Xerox were rather reserved in parts distribution here. Canon laser parts (all other Apple lasers were Canon engines) were much easier to acquire.
     
  13. PaulHigg thread starter macrumors member

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    #13
    I didn't know I could open a toner cartridge. Good, I'll try that.
    This was supposed to be a brand new cart from Apple but who knows?
    I will try this, gotta find that drum door. Never opened one before and I didn't know that about UV light. What does UV light do to it?
    Thanks again for your continuing help. I really appreciate it.

    ----------

    One more thing, you mention that it will help with the spots but what about the dark bands? This is with the same cart. Just days separated between printings. Could it still be something else causing it?
     
  14. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #14
    The drum door is on the cartridge - I can't specifically remember but if you fit the cart into the printer and slowly close the printer, you should see an armature gradually opening the door on the cartridge which should give you a hint.

    The dark banding should be a charge problem - often associated with the HV contacts or - dare I say it, the cart itself.

    Exposure to UV light will darken the exposed parts of the drum permanently and leave image defects on your printout - usually large horizontal marks
     
  15. PaulHigg thread starter macrumors member

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    #15
    Okay, good, this is good advice, thanks.
    You should see the first four sheets I printed. All I had was those little smudges, everything was crystal clear, perfect. So I'll bet it IS the cart. I will do my best to clean it. But lemme ask you a question about the UV light. I still don't understand how the UV interacts with the drum or why. This is interesting. Could you explain or send me a link on it? I'm curious about it.
    As for WHEN I do it, well, what about during the day with the blinds down, the sun never directly enters that room either. Will that block out enough UV, and what about fluorescent lights? Will they emit enough UV to damage it?
    I appreciate your continuing help.
     
  16. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #16
  17. tdiaz macrumors 6502

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    #17
    I've had decent success with cleaning drums, using fresh 99% alcohol in dry conditions.
     
  18. PaulHigg thread starter macrumors member

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    #18
    Well, I took a photo of the drum without a flash. I don't know if this was normal but you can see the banding on the drum and on the printout post cleaning. I used a lint free large lens cleaner to clean it. Now, when I rotated the drum the banding kept appearing. Could this be the cart? Or should I still take it apart and try to clean the HV contacts?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. PaulHigg thread starter macrumors member

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    #19
    I have a question guys.
    First, I just read through the entire service manual and it doesn't seem very difficult to get access to those two rollers for cleaning but getting to the HV contacts will require quite a bit of disassembly but not a problem.

    My question is this, is it possible to reset the paper POST count to zero pages? I only ask out of curiosity because I'm at page 2410 and I see it has a lifespan of 300K pages! That's a lot and mine has so few. Could the last owner somehow have tricked this printer by resetting the "odometer"? I bought it off Ebay for very low money, it cost more in shipping that the actual printer. I'm just wondering if I could have gotten ripped off.

    Thanks.
     
  20. tdiaz macrumors 6502

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    #20
    A new, never used main board would reset a print count, but these problems can also be just the cartridge.

    If you rotate that one way, it will come back clean, the other way it will come through with toner on it again. For some reason, toner is sticking to it
     
  21. PaulHigg thread starter macrumors member

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    #21
    "For some reason toner is sticking to it." So this is not normal?

    I cleaned the roller that pops out with alcohol and put it back in and did a POST, photo result below.

    Also, in this other photo, are these the HV contacts you were talking about? The look clean and clean on the cartridge. Maybe it IS just a cheap cart I bought. Like I said I pain $9.00 for it, I have a more expensive new one on the way.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    ----------

    Notice the rust on the metal roller. However, this printer looks brand new, not a trace of yellowing. I just had to clean some minor dust off it when I got it.


    [​IMG]
     
  22. tdiaz macrumors 6502

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    #22
    Those are the high voltage contacts.

    That white section in the upper part of one photo would usually be a bit discolored if that printer engine had 300,000 prints on it. The metal inside might have a bit of a coating like light corrosion/cloudiness just because it's old.

    ..and speaking of old, hardly used or not, the rubber parts on that are not going to be in that great of condition. Though you'll have a better shot at rejuvinating their function if they're not well used. A well used pick up roller tends to have a good shine to it, and the section on the paper tray that goes up against it will be worn. Those are things you can use to tell if the printer is well used or not.

    Either way, good rubbing/cleaning with alcohol will help it work better. You'll get black rubbing off for sure.
     
  23. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #23
    I concur with everything tdiaz has said.

    Yes, it could well be the cheap cart. Can't wait to see what happens with the new one - fingers crossed.

    BTW, don't throw away the old cart. Wrap the bad test print around it and store it away - if you ever have a problem, you can still use it to trouble-shoot knowing what defects it ALREADY has. :)

    There is a blade inside the toner cart that is meant to wipe the drum clean once it is dis-charged - the discharging inside the cart may be poor or the "wipe blade" is worn out - normal(ish) for an old cart.
     
  24. PaulHigg thread starter macrumors member

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    #24
    Thanks guys, your help has been invaluable. Last night I cleaned that easily removeable roller in the front with alcohol and printed a POST page, number 2413 and the bands were even lighter. I would have to say it's the cart. I am keeping my fingers crossed as this is a nice printer.
     
  25. PaulHigg thread starter macrumors member

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    #25
    This is after printing several pages on Word and other programs today, it seems as if it gets better as I print. So I think ya'll are right when you say it's a bad cart.
    However, because of the center smudges it appears that I will have to open it and clean that top roller. Agreed? Please advise.

    [​IMG]
     

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