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Hello, I have some question about mac pro 4,1 early 2009

Zhldev

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 17, 2018
8
2
California
Hi, today I bought a Mac pro 4,1 8core 2.26, 20G RAM 1066, and I want to constantly upgrade it to a 5,1 12 core. I have some questions and hope some one can give me some advice:

1. I just bought it at 370$, is it a little bit over price or just right?
2. if I just upgrade the firmware to 5,1 with out upgrading any hardware (still original 1066 ram and 8core ), will it still work properly ?
3. I have two "Kingston HyperX FURY 4GB 1600MHz DDR3 CL10 DIMM", could I use them on my mac pro?
4. I just reviewd some video on the youtube and found that some one screws the heatsink very very carefully ...and said if too tight you will break the motherboard and cpu. Is it really so tricky to do that? How do you know it is tight enough?
5. If i upgrad the firmware to 5,1, could I install the high sierra directly from the apple store? or still need patch?

Thank you for your kindly help!
 

crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,742
1,899
Charlotte, NC
1) Congratulations

2) Yes. As far as I know

3) You’ll look that one up. Most vendors have an online tool to assist with selection

4) It’s not really tricky, but you do have to be somewhat precise. Look up the torque setting in inch lbs.

5) You should be able to install directly as long as you have a natively supported video card. If not, then you may have to jump through a few little hoops.
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
14,505
7,034
Hong Kong
Hi, today I bought a Mac pro 4,1 8core 2.26, 20G RAM 1066, and I want to constantly upgrade it to a 5,1 12 core. I have some questions and hope some one can give me some advice:

1. I just bought it at 370$, is it a little bit over price or just right?
2. if I just upgrade the firmware to 5,1 with out upgrading any hardware (still original 1066 ram and 8core ), will it still work properly ?
3. I have two "Kingston HyperX FURY 4GB 1600MHz DDR3 CL10 DIMM", could I use them on my mac pro?
4. I just reviewd some video on the youtube and found that some one screws the heatsink very very carefully ...and said if too tight you will break the motherboard and cpu. Is it really so tricky to do that? How do you know it is tight enough?
5. If i upgrad the firmware to 5,1, could I install the high sierra directly from the apple store? or still need patch?

Thank you for your kindly help!

1) It's a reasonably good price, assuming the original GPU still there.

2) Yes

3) Not sure on this one, normal 1600MHz memory should run at CL11. That CL10 may make the DIMM not compatible on a Mac.

4) For dual processor 4,1, The CPU are delidded. Therefore, if you want to upgrade the CPU. Either
a) Delid the CPU
b) use washers to compensate the extra CPU thickness
You may use the "count turn method" as well, but I won't suggest that without washer. If you go for the delid route, the upgrade should be very straight forward.

5) Yes, again, assume your GPU and HDD are the original Apple parts, which allow you finish the firmware upgrade (build inside the High Sierra installer)
 
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howiest

macrumors 6502
Aug 16, 2015
309
124
Left Coast
Since you applied the 5,1 firmware hack you won’t need a patch to install High Sierra. There’s a few things to keep in mind though…
- backup your files beforehand

- make sure you have a Mac EFI video card for the High Sierra install

- if installing High Sierra onto an SSD it will convert the file system to APFS. If you want to stay with HFS+ you may want to consider using a terminal command to prevent the conversion to APFS, or, install on an HDD.

- best practise for a smooth High Sierra update is to remove all drives but the boot drive you’re updating. Also remove any PCIe cards except the Mac EFI video card.

- it’s also considered best to download the full High Sierra Installer (5.2 GB) to the drive you’re updating, and run it from there.

I'm just repeating some of things I've read in several threads on this forum. I hope it helps.
 
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Zhldev

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 17, 2018
8
2
California
  • Thank you for your very detailed reply, I will go delid cpu upgrade.
[doublepost=1526630261][/doublepost]Thank you Howist, learn a lot from your post
[doublepost=1526630446][/doublepost]
1) Congratulations

2) Yes. As far as I know

3) You’ll look that one up. Most vendors have an online tool to assist with selection

4) It’s not really tricky, but you do have to be somewhat precise. Look up the torque setting in inch lbs.

5) You should be able to install directly as long as you have a natively supported video card. If not, then you may have to jump through a few little hoops.
Thank you, very helpful
 

Erlang

macrumors member
Dec 23, 2009
81
12
SW, UK
  • Thank you for your very detailed reply, I will go delid cpu upgrade.
[doublepost=1526630261][/doublepost]Thank you Howist, learn a lot from your post
[doublepost=1526630446][/doublepost]
Thank you, very helpful

I started with the same base model, I delidded some replacement CPU's myself, and currently run, High Sierra on an SSD with a RX580.

Only thing I will say is I had my boot SSD die last week, and it was a rough couple of days replacing the SSD and getting my system back, I had to switch back my gfc, and install from a bootable USB.

Not sure why I had so much trouble, but stick with it, and read the threads here about upgrading and personally I'd delid again just go slowly and carefully.

 
Last edited:

crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,742
1,899
Charlotte, NC
I started with the same base model, I delidded some replacement CPU's myself, and currently run, High Sierra on an SSD with a RX580.

Only thing I will say is I had my boot SSD die last week, and it was a rough couple of days replacing the SSD and getting my system back, I had to switch back my gfc, and install from a bootable USB.

Not sure why I had so much trouble, but stick with it, and read the threads here about upgrading and personally I'd delid again just go slowly and carefully.


I highly suggest you get another SSD (or even a spinner) and Carbon Copy Cloner. Make/Keep up to date a working clone. This will completely avert disaster and inconvenience if you boot SSD dies or corrupts in the future. I have 4 backup systems at the moment and wouldn't move away from that under any circumstances. Sudden death is a distinct possibility with SSDs (Spinners to, but often there is warning, and data can be recovered).

How does the Radeon RX580 compare in daily use (non-video editing, just general use) to the HD 7970? Do you have EFI boot screens?
 

Zhldev

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 17, 2018
8
2
California
I already got the firmware upgrade done and dust clean. I ordered 16g ddr3 registered ecc and x5675 and a vice. So I will upgrade this whole thing in next couple day

I just checked my ram and I found there are two 4G 10600e 1333 ecc ram could them be mixed with "A-Tech PC3-10600 1333 MHZ ECC REGISTERED APPLE Mac Pro MEMORY RAM" ?
 
Last edited:

Erlang

macrumors member
Dec 23, 2009
81
12
SW, UK
I started with the same base model, I delidded some replacement CPU's myself, and currently run, High Sierra on an SSD with a RX580.

Only thing I will say is I had my boot SSD die last week, and it was a rough couple of days replacing the SSD and getting my system back, I had to switch back my gfc, and install from a bootable USB.

Not sure why I had so much trouble, but stick with it, and read the threads here about upgrading and personally I'd delid again just go slowly and carefully.



I highly suggest you get another SSD (or even a spinner) and Carbon Copy Cloner. Make/Keep up to date a working clone. This will completely avert disaster and inconvenience if you boot SSD dies or corrupts in the future. I have 4 backup systems at the moment and wouldn't move away from that under any circumstances. Sudden death is a distinct possibility with SSDs (Spinners to, but often there is warning, and data can be recovered).

How does the Radeon RX580 compare in daily use (non-video editing, just general use) to the HD 7970? Do you have EFI boot screens?

Yes I totally get what you say about CC. It's back on my schedule.
No EFI boot screeens, hence the swap back to a) Establish what the fail was, b) try multi times to restore and firmware update for HS re-install.
RX580 is great in everyday use, I get a little weirdness coming out of sleep sometimes but that might not be the RX580.

BTW, I delidded using a micro blowtorch and a single sided razor, the vise method looks good.
 

Squuiid

macrumors 68000
Oct 31, 2006
1,652
1,013
My two cents, definitely use vice method to delid ;)

One more thing, now that you have upgraded to 5,1 you will likely need to use Macsfancontrol app to keep your fans quiet. It’s a great app and free.
 

orph

macrumors 68000
Dec 12, 2005
1,884
392
UK
thats a good price for a dual CPU :)

this is one of the better videos on upgrades, just skip to about the 6 min mark
 

Kolvir

macrumors member
Jul 21, 2014
34
1
Iowa
A bit late now, but in regards to delidding:

I didn't do it and put in the plastic spacing washers. My first attempt at startup wouldn't see all of the RAM slots, but all I had to do is tighten a bit more and everything worked fine. I personally wouldn't risk delidding CPUs.
 

devon807

macrumors 6502
Dec 31, 2014
368
95
Virginia
Hi, today I bought a Mac pro 4,1 8core 2.26, 20G RAM 1066, and I want to constantly upgrade it to a 5,1 12 core. I have some questions and hope some one can give me some advice:

1. I just bought it at 370$, is it a little bit over price or just right?
2. if I just upgrade the firmware to 5,1 with out upgrading any hardware (still original 1066 ram and 8core ), will it still work properly ?
3. I have two "Kingston HyperX FURY 4GB 1600MHz DDR3 CL10 DIMM", could I use them on my mac pro?
4. I just reviewd some video on the youtube and found that some one screws the heatsink very very carefully ...and said if too tight you will break the motherboard and cpu. Is it really so tricky to do that? How do you know it is tight enough?
5. If i upgrad the firmware to 5,1, could I install the high sierra directly from the apple store? or still need patch?

Thank you for your kindly help!
$370 is great imo. I paid $500 shipped for mine. I used the washer method, this is a stop-gap method to prevent over-tightening of the CPU, I would not recommend doing it because you can still end up over-tightening (be very careful)
 

Zhldev

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 17, 2018
8
2
California
$370 is great imo. I paid $500 shipped for mine. I used the washer method, this is a stop-gap method to prevent over-tightening of the CPU, I would not recommend doing it because you can still end up over-tightening (be very careful)

I did my cpu delidding and upgrade today, there are couple things need be mentioned:

1.Do youself a favor, please use the vice method! It is way more easy...I delid two cpus in 2 mins. Do not use blade to slice around the seal first, Because It will make the seal become very thin and more flexible. If you just leave the original cpu in your vice it will be cracked breezily with crispy sound because the seal is thick and harder.

2. if you install the cpu one by one, make sure you install the cpu A first(the right hand one when you face with the tray) otherwise it will not boot.

3.Install the delid cpu is very easy because you will feel the time point which should stop to screw.

4.If you want to install High Sierra you have to upgrade the firmware one more time although you already flashed the 5,1 firmware. Do not use usb key to install because you will failed to shut down the mac, use the original mac system hdd to do it and you will be good.

I hope the info upwards could help some others who want to do that.
[doublepost=1526972251][/doublepost]Additionally, I already felt the "force" although I just upgrade the cpu and gtx950......It is totally different from my ex mac pro 2008! Thank you guys, your help make the processing so smooth ~
 
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Kolvir

macrumors member
Jul 21, 2014
34
1
Iowa
- if installing High Sierra onto an SSD it will convert the file system to APFS. If you want to stay with HFS+ you may want to consider using a terminal command to prevent the conversion to APFS, or, install on an HDD.

Is there a reason to stick with HFS+?
 

orph

macrumors 68000
Dec 12, 2005
1,884
392
UK
if you want to use bootcamp APFS will give you pains.
windows cant see APFS so you cant use the boot camp button thing in windows to boot back in to osx & if you have a PC video card you cant get to the alt+startup screen to select boot volume.

so simply it's harder to boot back in to osx from windows.

the old filesystem just works for bootcamp ;)
 

Kolvir

macrumors member
Jul 21, 2014
34
1
Iowa
I use bootchamp now with a pc video card with no startup screen. Will this work the same if I use APFS?
 

orph

macrumors 68000
Dec 12, 2005
1,884
392
UK
bootchamp is osx -> windows

APFS gives you problems with windows -> OSX
as windows cant see the APFS drive

now if you have a "apple" GPU that lets you see the "alt+startup" drive select screen you can go back to osx that way but if like me you have a 'PC' GPU then you cant see that startup display

so stick to the old file system if you dont want to mess around if you have a PC GPU or plan to later upgrade to a PC gpu.

(is there an easy way to swap from APFS to HFS+ ? or do you just have to migrate all your data of the drive then format then migrate all data back?)
 

Zhldev

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 17, 2018
8
2
California
Just upgrade to 16g 1333 pc3-10600 registered Ram yesterday, there a something to be mentioned:
1. pc3-10600 registered ECC Ram can not be mixed with pc3-10600e unregistered ECC Ram, otherwise it will not boot
2. After swap the ram you should do PRAM or NVRAM reset so you can get the ram working on 1333
3. Making sure you work with original graphic card when do the reset otherwise you will get black screen
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
14,505
7,034
Hong Kong
3. Making sure you work with original graphic card when do the reset otherwise you will get black screen

Only true when you installed a Nvidia Maxwell / Pascal GPU. For other OOTB GPU, you can always do PRAM reset without any annoying consequence.
 
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