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1. iTunes can't play the thousands of illegal songs that I may or may not have collected over the years.

Why not?


2. When I decided to sell all 1000 of my CDs many years ago, I used WMP to burn them all. It defaulted to WMAs which means I'd have to convert everything to MP3s and lose quality.

That was a rather silly thing to do ;)


3. I have spent 7 years naming songs the way I like. Because I'm a huge Jazz and Classical fan, all of my songs are labeled Song-Artist (because there tend to be more covers of the same song than there are in Rock or Hip Hop). So I can look at my collection and see instantly that I have 10 versions of "Misty"--each one my a different artist. I can tell that I have 5 versions of Beethoven's 4th Symphony.

4. I have spent the 7 years organizing music the way I like. I have about 13 different genre fields (iTunes has about 10000...and some of them aren't even genres). When i go to my Bossa Nova folder, I'd like to see all of the bossa nova songs that I have....not What iTunes thinks is Bossa Nova...but what I KNOW to be bossa nova.

Just put in your own genre names, I do


5. I don't want 5 different Stevie Wonder folders. stevie wonder, STEVIE WONDER, Stevie Wonder & John Smith, sTeViE WoNda...etc. If I absolutely absolutely must view my songs by artists, I want there to be one Stevie Wonder folder....one Michael Jackson Folder....etc.

Select all your one artist songs and rename all you songs as Stevie Wonder etc

it sucks you have everything in WMA, but in terms of tagging/organizing there shouldn't be an issue.
 
Here's my issue with iTunes,

1. iTunes can't play the thousands of illegal songs that I may or may not have collected over the years.

iTunes can play MP3's if you have downloaded songs as WMA's thats your own fault.

Hi everybody, I hope you can help me out.

The problem is that Mac users love iTunes, so unfortunately you are stuck with it for better or worse. To be honest the Mac version is more stable than the Windows version.
 
whoooa killmom. i appreciate the response, but your tone is rather stank. it's not about "fault." it's about workarounds. in 2000, i wasn't a compuer whiz...i didn't know that WMAs and MP3s were rival formats. i didn't know that a company named apple would one day make a player that used a different proprietary format. if i could go back and change my life, i would have remained open-source and neutral from the get go. if the ACME company came out with an amazing player next month that rejected AAC and WMA...and you wanted to buy that player....would it be YOUR FAULT that you used either format (WMA or AAC)? no. you would want to know how to make everything work....and you would post a question like mine on an online forum that is supposed to be designed to help users of one operating system make the hard transition to another operating system. there exist growing pains when you move from apple to pc or pc to apple, and after weeks of research, i decided to give this forum a go. so cut it out with the "your fault" bs.

anyway, to respond to your individual points:

Your problem for not choosing a standard format like MP3, which iTunes can play and is the most popular format for illegal songs, hands down. This one's your fault.

Yes...thank you. I realize that it's my problem....it's a problem that i bring to the mac forums for help.

Again, your fault. I won't lie, I have illegal songs I ripped from CDs I didn't own 10 years ago still. They're MP3s. They worked fine then, they work fine now in iTunes.

thanks. my question wasn't "who's fault is it?" it is, is there a way around this without losing quality...if there is, i'm all ears.

So, you've named all your files but not tagged them? Guess what: 10 years ago I was tagging my files with ID3. It's been upgraded and can store more information since 2000 or so. You have no excuse for relying on file names for organization. Not to mention that you could sort your entire library by song name in one click, or even search for a specific song name, and come away with the exact same information.

why don't i have an excuse? i'm not a computer whiz, and i only learned about tags when del.iicio.us came into my life. blaming me for not being as up-to-date as you is just rude. i've never had any need to TAG or ID3 or UAHF*&SAS*D (or whatever the kids are doing these days).

In addition, yes i could do a song search and sort....but one could also do a artist search and sort. both methods work right? the fact of the matter is, 45% of my music is a duplicate by someone else. i have about 25 different versions of "girl from ipanema." i could do a search every single single single single time that i wanted to listen to this song, but the way that windows is set up, i've never needed to. i hilight the batch and throw it into windows media player.


What? What are you even talking about? "What iTunes thinks is bossa nova?" iTunes doesn't THINK anything. It just displays what YOU'VE STORED in your Genre tag. You control that, not iTunes. If you tag your files, that's how iTunes will organize them. It doesn't tag anything by itself (unless you're talking about stuff you buy from the iTunes Store, which you can change).


look. i've used itunes only once. and when i used it, it displayed a sh&tload of genres. i've NEVER used tags, so it was showing me stuff that someone else (another user, amazon, you....whomever) indicated. if there is a way to remove this, please tell me...and please tell me without the STANKINESS. why is it that computer users look down on the rest of the world (http://www.cnettv.com/9742-1_53-11125.html).

So as i said, i've never tagged anything. I have My Cherie Amour by Stevie Wonder labeled as My Cherie Amour-Stevie Wonder....this file is in my classic soul folder of my music. by when i sent everything over to itunes....this song wasn't in any of the stevie wonder folders that itunes created. i didn't create any of these folders....and i've never used itunes before. and this was a song that i did own and i did burn as an MP3. i think my confusion is understandstable....but if you prefer to lambast me for being an itunes newbie, i guess i can't stop you.

Well then it's a good thing that Mac OS X's file system (and iTunes) isn't case-sensitive by default. Of course, it's also trivial to change many tags at once in iTunes by selecting many files and using the Get Info command. Also, you can easily turn off iTunes' file/folder re-organization and it won't touch your current layout. I think that's pointless, since part of the APPEAL of iTunes is that a database is way more flexible and can do exactly what you want as long as you tag your files correctly and you no longer have to worry about file/folder placement, but nevermind that.

though a little stanky, this was the most useful section of your response. after reading it, i actually understood what to do. yes, i felt belittled, but at least the content was helpful. get info, finder, dmg....all greek to me. i'm a PC user who has just switched over to Mac. i'm sorry that i'm not part of the initiated.....but at least i've made a switch.

more responses like this would be helpful (without the stankiness).

case sensistive or not...there are 5 stevie wonder folders in itunes. this is still confusing for me. why can't i have just one?

So, again, don't let iTunes organize/rename your files. It's an option, un-check it. That doesn't excuse what seems to be mostly your bad tagging habits, but we'll let that slide. iTunes is just a database of your music. It's exactly as organized as YOU make it, via tags. Everything you want can be accomplished, you just need to get out of the "manual file/folder management" style of thinking and into the "tags/metadata" style of thinking. It's a lot more flexible in the long run.


tagging habits aren't really to blame. i have no tagging habits....but i still feel the sting of proprietary bs....i dont hate itunes, but media monkey can play ANYTHING.....and that's what a music player should do. if i put in moldy cheese, MM can play it. i don't like proprieary nonsense. I don't like MS Office. I don't like AAC. I don't like WMA. I don't like phone chargers that only work with Motorola. i don't like DRM. I don't like French electricyt outlets that won't accept my computer's power chord. If you really want to jump on my back for not liking things that restrict my options, fine.....but i still don't like proprietary BS....plain and simple.

I don't see how anything you've said CAN'T be accomplished with iTunes—besides the large proportion of your collection stored in an unsupported format. Sorry to be harsh, but it sounds to me like you barely even LOOKED at the program or its capabilities before deciding it wasn't sufficient for your needs. Tag your files, turn on browse mode, turn off the "keep my iTunes music folder organized" option, and move on.

i didn't say anything CAN'T be accomplished. in fact, i was saying the opposite. i was saying, "here are my issues.....can you please help me find workarounds......i've made the switch, having some difficulties....i'd like to become a Mac guy.....throw me a bone."

I cannot stress enough: a well-tagged library is crucial. Of course, that's my opinion regardless of what player you use, but with iTunes it's the starting point.

Well, that and "not using competitors' proprietary formats."


okay. i will look into the tagging option. when i burned everything, WMA was not a competitor's proprietary format. the ipod wasn't really out yet.....s you could kind of back off a little. i used to work at 2 different music labels, and i walked away with about 1000 CDs. i used windwos media player to burn them. i didn't know that WMA was so restrictive....how could i have? i didn't purposely kick myself in the mouth, but your entire respnse was just plain rude. i came to this forum for help.

is there anyway to use itunes and still see my folder structure? to see that i have a jazz flder....and inside that jazz flder, i have a vocal jazz folder....and inside that i have a sinatra folder? this is how i listen to music. it's worth $80 to use parallels and media monkey to not have to go through and remove the tags from all of my music and input tags for all of my music. do i have to input tags for each one of my artists....and songs....and genres? i see that a batch tagging process might be convenient for genres....but what about the individual artists.....it looks like i'll still have 5 stevie wonder folders unless i manually change this.

i appreciate any and all feedback. but i could do without the "damn you buddhanoir for not knowing as much about computers as i do." you're supposed to be the nice guys...the mac guys....the helpful ones....and not stiff like the PC folks.

peace
 
is there anyway to use itunes and still see my folder structure? to see that i have a jazz flder....and inside that jazz flder, i have a vocal jazz folder....and inside that i have a sinatra folder? this is how i listen to music. it's worth $80 to use parallels and media monkey to not have to go through and remove the tags from all of my music and input tags for all of my music. do i have to input tags for each one of my artists....and songs....and genres? i see that a batch tagging process might be convenient for genres....but what about the individual artists.....it looks like i'll still have 5 stevie wonder folders unless i manually change this.

Sorry for the tone, I understand your situation. It's just hard after iTunes gets bagged on by PC users ALL THE TIME when they don't understand the program at all and make snap judgments about it. So, I apologize.

iTunes isn't a player, though. That's the thing. It's a jukebox. There are a couple "players," but iTunes is such a force on the Mac that none of them have really been developed very far. It is designed to help organize and sort your music, help you manage it, not just play it.

First off, the concept of tagging: tags are metadata (data about data, which is to say information about the "data" that is your digital music) that are stored inside your music files. They store information like the artist, the album, what year it was released, what genre it is, track number, disc number, and LOTS of other stuff. Seriously, pick a file in iTunes, right click it and choose "Get Info." See all those tabs across the top? That's all the information that can be stored about just one song. Lots of data, eh?

And the thing is, while your files might have tags that you didn't set right now, you can change them, quickly and easily (and in huge swaths) right in iTunes. Don't like the information that's showing up for your music? Select a file and right click it, and choose Get Info. Now you can edit its tags to have the information you want. If you have a lot of music by an artist or whatnot that you want to change the information for all at once (say, make sure all the files have the artist's name spelled right/input the exact same way, or changing a genre tag for a lot of stuff at once), then select all that stuff and then do Get Info. This will get you a window that lets you edit all of those files' tags at once.

What you're talking about here seems to be a sort of "nested genre" system, i.e. Jazz > Vocal Jazz. Here's the closest way I can figure out to implement that in iTunes:

1) Set the "Grouping" field with the TOP LEVEL genre, in this case "Jazz." Since you only have about 13 of these so-called "top-level" genres, this is pretty easy, as you can select all the files you want to be tagged this way at once, set the grouping, and then apply it in one operation. Maybe when adding your music to iTunes you could do just one folder at once, so import just your "Jazz" folder, tag ALL of those files with the grouping "Jazz," and then move on to the next set. You could even show the Grouping column in iTunes and sort by it, so you can easily tell which files have been tagged with a grouping and which have not.

2) Tag your files' Genre field with the SECOND LEVEL genre, which is to say "Vocal Jazz" in this example. So, you could grab all your songs by Frank Sinatra, and set their genre to "Vocal Jazz" in the Get Info window.

3) Make a smart playlist in iTunes for each grouping (your top level genre). A smart playlist is basically a saved query of your iTunes database. You can have a "playlist" which is actually made up of songs that meet search criteria that you set. In this case, you'd set the criteria to be all songs that have a "Grouping" that is "Jazz." Then you'd have a smart playlist in the sidebar which you could call "Jazz." That would show all the songs you've tagged with a grouping of Jazz, and it will live-update—meaning that when you add new songs and tag their "Grouping" field with "Jazz," they'll automatically show up there. So, now you'll have 13 or so smart playlists (Jazz, Classical, Rock, or whatever you like) which break up your collection the way you want it.

4) You can even hit "Cmd+B" to then enter browse mode in the smart playlist, and you'll see your Genres and artists listed up top. So maybe in the Jazz smart playlist with browse turned on, you'll see "Vocal Jazz," "Instrumental Jazz," "Be-bop," "Big-band," "Free Jazz," or whatever other more specific genres you've tagged in the "Genre" column up top. Select "Vocal Jazz" and it will then limit the Artist and Album columns to only the music that is tagged with that genre.

See how you can use iTunes' database to accomplish these things? And because it's all being done in the database, live, you don't have to manually move around folders or files or rename things yourself. Tag once (and since you can tag many things in one swoop, this is easy) and your library suddenly becomes powerful and flexible. This sort of thing only scratches the surface of what you can do with your music once it's in a flexible database like iTunes.

Take your example of having 25 versions of "The Girl from Ipanema." Right now, if I understand it correctly, you'd have those 25 versions strewn about your folders, right? They're not all vocal Jazz, are they? I have a cover of "The Girl from Ipanema" by Pizzicato Five, a Japanese electronica group. In iTunes, even with your genre tags separating these songs into their respective genres, one click of the "Name" column would INSTANTLY sort your entire library by song name. So all those versions of "The Girl from Ipanema" would be sitting right next to each other. Or you could search for them, if you want to drill down to just them. Even if they ARE just Vocal Jazz, you could select the "Vocal Jazz" genre and then click the "Name" column to sort by song name, accomplishing the same thing within just that genre. Isn't flexibility wonderful?

As to the whole WMA thing, I'm afraid there really aren't any options there. Microsoft designed Windows Media Player the way it did to try and lock you in to their formats. Heck, Apple does the same thing with AAC (though at least they provide an MP3 option in their preferences, if you set it). You didn't know WMP was doing this, and that's just the way Microsoft wanted it. You'll just have to reacquire these songs in MP3, I'm afraid. Once you do though, you'll be guaranteed compatibility with pretty much every device out there—MP3 is the de facto standard for lossy digital music, and has been for a long time.
 
^^^^^Did you read my post that said: Highlight All WMA/WMV Music Files In iTunes And Go Advance And Convert To AAC And Presto AAC Music For iPod/iTunes.
 
^^^^^Did you read my post that said: Highlight All WMA/WMV Music Files In iTunes And Go Advance And Convert To AAC And Presto AAC Music For iPod/iTunes.

That's transcoding. It will result in a loss of quality. i dont know why anyone would encode im wma anyways.
 
That's transcoding. It will result in a loss of quality. i dont know why anyone would encode im wma anyways.

Well, lots of people do it in Windows because they don't know any better, and because Microsoft doesn't ship Windows with a useful MP3 codec anyway (the encoder they have in Windows Media Player won't go above 56kbit/s). The default is Windows Media, and most people don't know they should question it. It's just as underhanded as Apple making AAC the default in iTunes, but at least Apple has the decency to include a capable MP3 encoder that does actual bitrates that people want (we'll leave the iTunes MP3 vs. LAME debate to the audiophiles).
 
thanks for the posts guys. i will look into the taggng stuff. i've never done this before, so i have numerous questions:

1. is it better to tag within itunes, or is there a faster or better way?
2. tagging entire folders/genres seems easy enough. but do i have to tag each individual song as well? if i have 80 Stevie Wonder songs...and i'll name them all Stevie Wonder. but i have tons and tons of songs...some artists have 20 songs. some have only 1.
3. Can i (or should i) keep the file names that i've assigned to my music. i don't listen to "albums" and i don't listen to "artists." i listen to songs...each of which is it's own unique creation. the entire notion of coverflow or artist files doesn't really work for me.
4. Do you recommend remving tags that are already there? i've never never ever used tags...and yet a lot of the music in my collection is already tagged by something or someone. ocassionally the artist is correct...rarely is the genre good. should i remove these tags or keep them as is?
5. is there a lot of work ahead for me? if so, i might just go with parallels.

as a general rule, i won't convert into AAC. it's the same thing as converting to WMA. at some time (as unthinkable as it is), microsoft will throw down the gauntlet and come up with a player to rival the ipod...and i'll be in the same situation all over again.

beware all of you who use AAC. this is the voice of xmas past, present, and future telling you to stick with the most universal format that you can.
 
Well, lots of people do it in Windows because they don't know any better, and because Microsoft doesn't ship Windows with a useful MP3 codec anyway (the encoder they have in Windows Media Player won't go above 56kbit/s). The default is Windows Media, and most people don't know they should question it. It's just as underhanded as Apple making AAC the default in iTunes, but at least Apple has the decency to include a capable MP3 encoder that does actual bitrates that people want (we'll leave the iTunes MP3 vs. LAME debate to the audiophiles).

Format quality
AIFF (or other types of loseless) > Mp4 > Mp3 > WMA

Some might argue that WMA is close to quality of mp3, but it's indisputable that Mp3 codec is 10 years older than Mp4 (AAC) and thus cannot compare in quality.
 
thanks for the posts guys. i will look into the taggng stuff. i've never done this before, so i have numerous questions:

1. is it better to tag within itunes, or is there a faster or better way?
There are a couple stand-alone tagging applications, though I don't think any are designed to work with WMA. You will have to replace those files with something more universal, like MP3, before setting out on this path. In any event, one popular one is Media Rage. It even has a "create tags from file name" option, but it uses a pretty complex regex structure that even I haven't really figured out. (Anyone know if there are some good tutorials out there on it?)

2. tagging entire folders/genres seems easy enough. but do i have to tag each individual song as well? if i have 80 Stevie Wonder songs...and i'll name them all Stevie Wonder. but i have tons and tons of songs...some artists have 20 songs. some have only 1.
You will have to tag individual songs with the song name, in the "Name" field. You could easily tag ALL those songs with "Stevie Wonder" in the "Artist" field at once though. Definitely keep that information separate, though. There are separate fields for a reason: namely, storing the correct information in the correct place increases the flexibility of what you can do with your music, organizationally. See the first attached picture on this post: it's the Get Info window for a single song. The second attached picture is the Get Info window for a group of songs from the same album. You can see how you can adjust different information in each.

3. Can i (or should i) keep the file names that i've assigned to my music. i don't listen to "albums" and i don't listen to "artists." i listen to songs...each of which is it's own unique creation. the entire notion of coverflow or artist files doesn't really work for me.
I've never understood "non-album" people, but... well, whatever, I suppose. As I said before, you don't have to let iTunes keep your music folder organized. You can easily just import your existing folder structure into iTunes. Like I said, be sure to uncheck this preference BEFORE you import anything into iTunes. If you have your music on an external volume and want to keep it there, for instance, you'll need to uncheck the "Copy music to iTunes Music folder" option as well. See my third attached screenshot.

KEEP IN MIND: If you want to edit tags for your files on an external volume, make sure that external volume is in a format OS X can read AND write to (if it's NTFS, you're boned). It has to be FAT32 (readable and writeable on both Macs and PCs but can't store files over 4GB) or HFS+ (the Mac filesystem, not readable on PCs without extra software).

4. Do you recommend remving tags that are already there? i've never never ever used tags...and yet a lot of the music in my collection is already tagged by something or someone. ocassionally the artist is correct...rarely is the genre good. should i remove these tags or keep them as is?
Again, you can edit them if you want. If some of the information is good, why not keep it? Just change the stuff you want. And you can always change many at once, so it's not really a big deal.

5. is there a lot of work ahead for me? if so, i might just go with parallels.
If you go with Parallels, you will be spending an INORDINATE amount of system resources, ALL THE TIME, on just running a music player. It will negatively impact your entire Mac experience since you will be essentially running an entire second operating system on top of OS X (eating up a good quarter of your available RAM at least)... just so you can avoid a little work with your messy music collection. A well-tagged music collection is a good thing to have no matter WHAT platform you're on or what player you use. It's a universal thing that's just good to have, so look at it as an investment in the long-term viability of your collection.

as a general rule, i won't convert into AAC. it's the same thing as converting to WMA. at some time (as unthinkable as it is), microsoft will throw down the gauntlet and come up with a player to rival the ipod...and i'll be in the same situation all over again.
So convert to MP3. You can set this in iTunes, in the Preferences, under the Advanced section, in the "Importing" tab. You can even select a higher bitrate than default. If you set that, iTunes will convert your WMAs to MP3, not AAC (and the "Convert to AAC..." menu item will change to "Convert to MP3...").

beware all of you who use AAC. this is the voice of xmas past, present, and future telling you to stick with the most universal format that you can.
Not really. AAC is an openly licensable format from Dolby Laboratories, not Apple. It's no more proprietary than WMA or MP3, just that MP3's support tends to be more universal because it's a de facto standard (as a result of being one of the first effective lossy compression formats in the early days of music piracy).

EDIT:
Format quality
AIFF (or other types of loseless) > Mp4 > Mp3 > WMA

Some might argue that WMA is close to quality of mp3, but it's indisputable that Mp3 codec is 10 years older than Mp4 (AAC) and thus cannot compare in quality.
Oh, I agree completely. I rip to 256kbit AAC VBR, myself, because it is higher quality than MP3. However, this guy is clearly dead-set against it, and MP3 still is the most widely supported of the lossy audio compression formats. With a good encoder like LAME, MP3 can sound very competitive with AAC, honestly. But that's another debate for another thread.

EDIT 2: Added fourth picture, of the "Importing" tab in iTunes' Advanced preferences, showing the available encoders. There is another settings screen for AAC and MP3 where you can select bitrates, VBR vs. CBR, and other options.
 

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thanks for the posts guys. i will look into the taggng stuff. i've never done this before, so i have numerous questions:

1. is it better to tag within itunes, or is there a faster or better way?
2. tagging entire folders/genres seems easy enough. but do i have to tag each individual song as well? if i have 80 Stevie Wonder songs...and i'll name them all Stevie Wonder. but i have tons and tons of songs...some artists have 20 songs. some have only 1.
3. Can i (or should i) keep the file names that i've assigned to my music. i don't listen to "albums" and i don't listen to "artists." i listen to songs...each of which is it's own unique creation. the entire notion of coverflow or artist files doesn't really work for me.
4. Do you recommend remving tags that are already there? i've never never ever used tags...and yet a lot of the music in my collection is already tagged by something or someone. ocassionally the artist is correct...rarely is the genre good. should i remove these tags or keep them as is?
5. is there a lot of work ahead for me? if so, i might just go with parallels.

as a general rule, i won't convert into AAC. it's the same thing as converting to WMA. at some time (as unthinkable as it is), microsoft will throw down the gauntlet and come up with a player to rival the ipod...and i'll be in the same situation all over again.

beware all of you who use AAC. this is the voice of xmas past, present, and future telling you to stick with the most universal format that you can.



NOTE IF YOU ACTUALLY OWN THE MUSIC, then there will be minimal work involved.

1. If you actually own the cds, put them into iTunes and iTunes will do everything including tagging.
2. There are apps that can automatically translate your file names into tags.
3. You can sort songs whatever way you want in iTunes. You can sort by song name, sort by artist, genre, BMP, etc. You can have smart playlists that have songs which fits certain conditions.
4. Third party apps can automate that process. Anyone who is specialized in certain types of music / DJ would usually tag the genre himself and add additional tags.
5. If you do it right, you don't have to mess with file structures. I did the folder structure thing 8 years ago. Modern music players such as iTunes has eliminated the need to manually do that. I assure you, I can find any song that I want within 2 seconds in iTunes.

AAC is openly licensable format! Please do some research. Thanks.
 
NOTE IF YOU ACTUALLY OWN THE MUSIC, then there will be minimal work involved.

i sold all CDs before moving to asia. all the CDs that i did own were legal. but they are not here any more.

i just imported into itunes, and i see a lot of mess (believe me, im not trying to be difficult....just such a different format). 8K plus songs. some have song names, some have artist names, some have nothing......a real hodge podge of mess.

it's not a matter of finding any indivial song. google desktop and spotlight can do that. it's a matter of throwing on groups of songs at my leisure....and being able to see the songs in labels that are familiar to me. as i look at the 8ks I've just imported, i see such a random collection of fields....i just did a search for stevie wonder.... in the name feld, i see files named as i've named them. i see files with just the song only....and i see files with artist and then the song name. a mess....in the "artist field"..i see STEVIE...i see blanks...i see stevie wonder, i see Dionne Warwick. i see Little Stevie Wonder. I see Wonder Stevie....and i see "America a Tribute to Heroes (I kid you not).

AAC is openly licensable format! Please do some research. Thanks.
fair enough...however the sentiment of my statement remains. it is a open format, but not playable by all players (WMP has issues....their call not to cooperate, so is Apple's call not to play WMAs). open or not, if the next BIG thing can't play it, you're in the same boat as i am with WMAs.

so i guess by open, i mean universal. again, i appreciate the correction, but i don't apperciate the tone "do some research please?????" i thought mac guys were supposed to be nice.
 
NOTE IF YOU ACTUALLY OWN THE MUSIC, then there will be minimal work involved.

i sold all CDs before moving to asia. all the CDs that i did own were legal. but they are not here any more.

i just imported into itunes, and i see a lot of mess (believe me, im not trying to be difficult....just such a different format). 8K plus songs. some have song names, some have artist names, some have nothing......a real hodge podge of mess.
Well, yes. Because your files are untagged. I would highly recommend you not import everything at once. I'm hoping you unchecked the "copy files to iTunes music folder" and "keep iTunes music folder organized" options that I pointed out earlier. If you did, delete everything from iTunes, and then try this:

You're telling us you have files in folders, right? That's your organization scheme. Say, a folder called Jazz, then a folder called Vocal Jazz, and then a lot of songs, with filenames like "Song Name - Artist Name.whatever," right?

Okay, go ahead and import bits at a time. Things that have something in common so you have a base to start tagging from, so it's not one huge overwhelming mess. Start with the organization scheme you have right now. Remember, we're not destroying that method (yet). We're supplementing it with tagging information that will let you accomplish the same thing in a more flexible, future-proof manner.

it's not a matter of finding any indivial song. google desktop and spotlight can do that. it's a matter of throwing on groups of songs at my leisure....and being able to see the songs in labels that are familiar to me. as i look at the 8ks I've just imported, i see such a random collection of fields....i just did a search for stevie wonder.... in the name feld, i see files named as i've named them. i see files with just the song only....and i see files with artist and then the song name. a mess....in the "artist field"..i see STEVIE...i see blanks...i see stevie wonder, i see Dionne Warwick. i see Little Stevie Wonder. I see Wonder Stevie....and i see "America a Tribute to Heroes (I kid you not).
Again, because you have NEVER dealt with the tags, it is a mess right now. And make no mistake, it's not just iTunes that's dealing with files in this tag-oriented world—it's everything. The old "file name/folder" style of organization is rapidly being replaced by metadata-based organization, on OS X and in Windows. In the next several years, the idea of using file names and folders as the primary means of organization is going to seem quaint.

The files that are showing up "as you've named them" in the "Name" field are doing so because there were NO tags in the files AT ALL, and iTunes has at least put the file name in the Name field so you might have SOME idea of what they are. Because the tags have been neglected for so long, you have a fair amount of work ahead of you. Take my advice and don't bring everything in in one fell swoop—bring in songs in chunks that make sense to you and that will be easy to tag in groups. When you've finished a group, move on to the next one until you're done. This will break the large job down into a series of smaller and more easily accomplished ones, which will make the entire process less onerous.

AAC is openly licensable format! Please do some research. Thanks.
fair enough...however the sentiment of my statement remains. it is a open format, but not playable by all players (WMP has issues....their call not to cooperate, so is Apple's call not to play WMAs). open or not, if the next BIG thing can't play it, you're in the same boat as i am with WMAs.

so i guess by open, i mean universal. again, i appreciate the correction, but i don't apperciate the tone "do some research please?????" i thought mac guys were supposed to be nice.
Not really. Anymore than anyone else is "nice" on the Internet, especially on an interest-based forum where most users are likely more technically minded that the average. Besides, WMP plays AAC just fine, since the Zune and Xbox 360 both support it.
 
If you actually sold the cds, you don't own the music anymore.

You can find / sort songs whatever way you want in itunes, if the songs are tagged properly. As I said, many DJs and radio stations use iTunes. I bet you I can find a single song, a group of songs, and create smart playlist / add them to a play list faster than you can.

There are apps that will translate folder structures to song names / tags.

iPod is the most popular music player and will be that way for the forseeable future. The MS format never had majority share. Even xbox's market share is bought with billions of dollars of MS cash burned.

By the way, I use AIFF.
 
bet you the speed with whcih we find songs is identical. ultimately comes down to who is a faster typist. spotlight, media monkey, google desktop....and yes, itunes....all the same search functinality.

i believe that starting from scracth, i tunes can do whatever i want. but i have 7 years of organization. so it can't really do what i want for what has already been done. i have to start all over again. my 7 years of labeling and organizing......itunes doesn't care.

if i have to go in and add tags, rearrange names, fudge files, massage titles...in large batches, mini batches, and one at a time......sigh. i realize that 10 years from now, i'll be glad i did, but damn. to do that with 8K songs now. i'd rather run parallels and use media monkey. it shows me the files the way that i've labled them...and over time i can tag these files as necessary....and i don't have to convert anything....and i can even play protected music.....and i can also sync with an ipod. i just have to throw down $80s and a lot of Ram (which sux).

any by the way (to an earlier post), the reason i'm not an album person is that very few albums are good all the way through. songs in the key of life, revolver, off the wall, and the chronic...i can listen to all of those without skipping. but the vast majority of music in my collection were invidiaul songs that i pulled from CDs or limewire. i don't need a beautiful album/folder for the one and only edith piath song that i'll ever listen to. unless an artists is blind, from liverpool, or singing on stage with his 4 brothers, they don't deserve a separate folder within a folder in my book. that's just me and my music preferences.

i apreciate all the help....but i just don't think itunesis gonna work out for now. i'll probably use media monkey for the next several months. over time, i'll add tags (sounds like a loooooong project any way). i'll also have to steal, beg or borrow mp3 versins of my WMA tunes. i tunes might be great for some, but for a PC user who is wed to media monkey and personalized organization (without tagging), i don't think itunes cuts it. i'm not an itunes hater at all. it's just not what i need right now. maybe if i get an ipod one day...or maybe if jobs just switches the "WMA" switch, i can climb n board. he'd have at least convert if he made the Ipod a universal player.

-buddhanoir
 
bet you the speed with whcih we find songs is identical. ultimately comes down to who is a faster typist. spotlight, media monkey, google desktop....and yes, itunes....all the same search functinality.

i believe that starting from scracth, i tunes can do whatever i want. but i have 7 years of organization. so it can't really do what i want for what has already been done. i have to start all over again. my 7 years of labeling and organizing......itunes doesn't care.

if i have to go in and add tags, rearrange names, fudge files, massage titles...in large batches, mini batches, and one at a time......sigh. i realize that 10 years from now, i'll be glad i did, but damn. to do that with 8K songs now. i'd rather run parallels and use media monkey. it shows me the files the way that i've labled them...and over time i can tag these files as necessary....and i don't have to convert anything....and i can even play protected music.....and i can also sync with an ipod. i just have to throw down $80s and a lot of Ram (which sux).

any by the way (to an earlier post), the reason i'm not an album person is that very few albums are good all the way through. songs in the key of life, revolver, off the wall, and the chronic...i can listen to all of those without skipping. but the vast majority of music in my collection were invidiaul songs that i pulled from CDs or limewire. i don't need a beautiful album/folder for the one and only edith piath song that i'll ever listen to. unless an artists is blind, from liverpool, or singing on stage with his 4 brothers, they don't deserve a separate folder within a folder in my book. that's just me and my music preferences.

i apreciate all the help....but i just don't think itunesis gonna work out for now. i'll probably use media monkey for the next several months. over time, i'll add tags (sounds like a loooooong project any way). i'll also have to steal, beg or borrow mp3 versins of my WMA tunes. i tunes might be great for some, but for a PC user who is wed to media monkey and personalized organization (without tagging), i don't think itunes cuts it. i'm not an itunes hater at all. it's just not what i need right now. maybe if i get an ipod one day...or maybe if jobs just switches the "WMA" switch, i can climb n board. he'd have at least convert if he made the Ipod a universal player.

-buddhanoir

Keep in mind that there ARE utilities that you can set up to traverse your existing file/folder structure and create tags based on the information you have there, assuming you've kept some sort of pattern.

For instance, if it's arranged:

/Jazz/Vocal Jazz/The Girl From Ipanema - Frank Sinatra.mp3

You could have the program use the first folder name ("Jazz") as the grouping, the second folder name ("Vocal Jazz") as the Genre, the first part of the file name (before the hyphen, "The Girl From Ipanema") as the "Name" of the track, and then the second part of the file name (after the hyphen, "Frank Sinatra") as the artist.

Assuming you've set up a consistent folder and file name structure, this could take a lot of the headache out of tagging your library. From there you could go in and tweak/add other information as you like.

I'm not personally familiar with utilities that can do this though, so you might want to do some research around the 'Net to see if there's something that will help you. I know they exist, so that's a starting point, anyway.

As to iTunes/iPod supporting WMA, it will never happen. Apple would have to pay a license fee for every iPod sold/every copy of iTunes downloaded to Microsoft, their biggest competitor. As long as the iPod is the number one portable media player (it is) and iTunes is the number one music player/online store (it is), they really have no business incentive to do so.

EDIT: Besides, I know 8K sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. My friend Sean had about that many files when he first got iTunes, and like you he'd never really known about tagging. By just doing it in his spare time, when he had nothing else to do, he finished tagging his collection in a couple weeks. It's not that big a deal if you're willing to be slow and methodical. Now he has over 12,000 tunes and an impeccably organized library. Just do a bit at a time and you'll get there. It certainly beats spending money on RAM and going through all that hassle just to play some unsupported files in a badly organized mess.
 
i won't even know what to search for online (although such a utility would be great).....except for those files that have hyphens in the song name or the artist.

Bim-Bom by the Hi-Los would be a bitch....

Bim-Bom-Hi-Los.....

for me this comes down to ease....i look at like gmail versus outlook/thunderbird. one uses labels (arguably better) while the others use folders. if you're wed to the latter, switching to gmail is tough (especially if gmail has been forwarding all mail to your outlook where you've been organizing everyting as folders).

imap changed all of that. i wish there was a imap for itunes. i guess the utility that killmoms mention is such a fix. i just wouldn't even know what to type into google to find it. i don't even know that jargon that macs use (is utility the same as a program on the PC?).


i've already installed 4 gigs of ram in my machine....so resources are not really a concern....just hassle.

i als heard that (not sure if it's true so please don't tell me to "do some research" or "have all the facts" or "know what i'm talking about") changing tags in itunes doesn't actually change the file's tags....only the tags while in itunes. if this is true, then wouldn't i have to go through the same bs if i switched computers?
 
i won't even know what to search for online (although such a utility would be great).....except for those files that have hyphens in the song name or the artist.

Bim-Bom by the Hi-Los would be a bitch....

Bim-Bom-Hi-Los.....

Not really. You could specify that the divider is " - ", so hyphens in the artist name, like "Bim-Bom" would be left as the artist name, since they're not surrounded by white space.

for me this comes down to ease....i look at like gmail versus outlook/thunderbird. one uses labels (arguably better) while the others use folders. if you're wed to the latter, switching to gmail is tough (especially if gmail has been forwarding all mail to your outlook where you've been organizing everyting as folders).

imap changed all of that. i wish there was a imap for itunes. i guess the utility that killmoms mention is such a fix. i just wouldn't even know what to type into google to find it. i don't even know that jargon that macs use (is utility the same as a program on the PC?).
Well, there is Media Rage, but like I said its regex notation (the "language" used to tell the utility how to parse the folder/file name tree) is difficult and not well documented. I know there are other utilities, I just haven't looked into them personally since I've been religiously tagging my files, album by album, since my collection was 2,500 songs (it's over 12,000 now). I'd suggest looking in the OS X section on Versiontracker, maybe try searching for "MP3" or "tagging" or "ID3" (ID3 is the format of tags used in MP3 files). Maybe do a Google search for "MP3 tagging" +"OS X" or something.

EDIT: I'll take a look around when I get home from work this evening, see if I can find anything useful. Keep in mind though the large number of WMA files in your library will continue to be a problem. You might try converting them to MP3 or AAC in iTunes with the "Keep iTunes Music Library organized" and "Copy items to my iTunes Music Folder" options turned off. I believe this will leave the converted files with the same file names and in the same locations as the original WMAs. I'm not sure though, since I've never done it myself so this is conjecture on my part. You might want to try it with a small subset of your library before doing the whole thing. In any event, if that works, you could then tag everything with the sort of utility I've mentioned above.

In any event, even with some confusion with the tagger, it will still take care of the majority of your library quickly.

EDIT 3: And, to be perfectly honest, TAGS are like IMAP for media files. Because tags are embedded in the files themselves, ANY PLAYER can read them. The fact that you've neglected the tags just means you've neglected the IMAP of the media world. ;)

i als heard that (not sure if it's true so please don't tell me to "do some research" or "have all the facts" or "know what i'm talking about") changing tags in itunes doesn't actually change the file's tags....only the tags while in itunes. if this is true, then wouldn't i have to go through the same bs if i switched computers?
No, that's not true, unless your files are read-only or locked for some reason. As soon as you change the tags in iTunes, they are changed in the files.

EDIT 2: Of course, there is some information stored in the iTunes Library database that is NOT stored in the files themselves at all: things like ratings, playcounts, last played date/time, date added, etc.. Things of that nature are only stored in the database. I'm not sure which fields are which, but I know some fields are not implemented in the ID3 format itself. Most are though, certainly all the "standard" ones.
 
i don't understand the "white space" comment. i have no spaces in such a file. if the name of the sng is bim-bom. and the name of the artist is hi-lo. the name of the file is bim-bom-hi-lo.

how would itunes know whether it is

bim by bom-hi-lo
bim-bom by hi-lo
bim-bom-hi by lo
 
i don't understand the "white space" comment. i have no spaces in such a file. if the name of the sng is bim-bom. and the name of the artist is hi-lo. the name of the file is bim-bom-hi-lo.

how would itunes know whether it is

bim by bom-hi-lo
bim-bom by hi-lo
bim-bom-hi by lo

...Then it wouldn't, and that was a silly decision on your part. With no effective delimiter, you've basically screwed yourself. A computer doesn't know how to distinguish that, you're right. Again, the fact that you've committed to such a bizarrely unintuitive naming scheme is really your own problem.

However, are there REALLY that many files in your library like that?

EDIT: Okay, came home and looked at a couple things.

First, in my 12,701 song library, there are exactly 12 artists with a hyphen in them. I think, in the grand scheme of things, that's not that many to fix.

Second, I looked at Media Rage's regex thing again, and I think it'd actually be pretty doable. You've never exactly CLARIFIED your structure, but I get the impression it looks something like this:

Music Folder/Jazz/Vocal Jazz/The Girl From Ipanema-Frank Sinatra.mp3

So, you should set up Media Rage as shown in the attached screenshot. Notice how the two folders closest to the file are set as Genre and then Grouping, going up the tree. That'll accomplish the organization I was talking about earlier.

If you don't, in fact, have "Vocal Jazz" type folders, then eliminate the "Genre" from the folder tree, just set it to "Grouping," and then set the next level up to <Skip>. I'm just going on what you said earlier. Lemme know if you're confused.

(You will still have to convert or replace those WMAs though, before running this process, though I think Media Rage will ignore non-MP3s.)

EDIT 2: Also, it's not "How would iTunes know?" It's "how would the tagging utility know?" It's the bulk re-tagging utility (like Media Rage) that will be performing the tagging. After that iTunes just reads the tags.

EDIT 3: I have now posted exactly four thousand and ninety-six words in this thread. Clearly, I am the winner and master of all things, forever. Or something like that. Seriously though, I hope this stuff proves useful. And good luck with Media Rage’s regex engine—I’ve never had too much luck, but then I don’t have many MP3 files in my collection that need retagging. Bye now!
 

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silly decision on my part? i disagree. it made perfect sense at the time. i lived in a world without tagging. i didn't concisouly decide NOT to know about tagging. and i didn't concisouly make music players (or juke boxes) that wouldn't allow me to keep file names or folder structures. if you'd never heard about tagging (as i hadn't), wouldn't file name be th most appropriate Name for a File? and whether to use spaces or not? i really couldn't have foreseen how either way would have or could have mattered.

it was a silly decision for native americans to trust europeans. it was a silly decision for kennedy to drive in a convertible. it was a silly decision for iraqis to be born in iraq......no.....people do what makes sense at the time.

if you named a word document (from high school english class) with a comma in it (The Adventures of Larry, Curly, and Moe).....and the next big word processor that came out used delicious-style naming systems (i.e.....without commas...no commas....bad commas), it wouldn't be SILLY of you to have used a naming system that made sense of you....especially if your naming system predates the major changes to come.

I guess what im saying is, please please please please stop saying ITS MY FAULT or I"M SILLY or I"M THE SON OF SATAN or ITS MY PROBLEM.

that i'm coming to an online forum for help is tacit acknowledgement that i have a PROBLEM. telling me that it is my problem is as helpful as telling a roulette-table loser that he should have bet on the OTHER color. by the time the wheel has stopped, he already knows that.

if i had offerings to burn, i would. i would erect an altar to you and kneel at your feet and kiss your cuticles and single praises to you on a lyre, and douse my body in olive oil and fashion a wreath for your head. but i can't. all i can do is agree that i know little and you know a lot......hence MY asking questions. i come to you in ignorance and i seek your help. belittling me probably serves some higher purpose, i'm sure. but ultimately, i can do without it.

all that aside, thanks for help. i'll look into this tagging software your recommended. there's always a mix of slaps in the face and useful tidbits.....so i can't be totally mad at you. seriously, i appreciate your help. unlike many PC users who might actually deserve or even want your name calling.....i'm now a Mac user....so back off a bit. my hard-earned cash went to Jobs and not Gates. i'm making a major switch here and I'm trying to find the value in my decision, but obviously there exist major transitional issues. except for animated cartoonish icons in a thing that people call a "dock" there don't seem to be that many major gripes....but not having office sux (gotta rebuy it), not having dragon naturally speaking sux (hve to buy that from macspeech later this month), and not having media monkey blows. but i'm trying ringo.....i'm trying real hard.

not sure if you watched the video clip i sent earlier in the thread.....here it is again. it's poignant...but also funny:

http://www.cnettv.com/9742-1_53-11125.html

hahaha...one more: http://www.itsfunnyhoney.com/video/117/nick_burns_computer_guy_anniston
 
I cried a lot when I firs used itunes two years ago, my library was a mess (I'm a mess too) but importing little by little helped me a lot. If I imported the entire star wars soundtrack, I'd select them all and retag them massively (to avoid multiple folders names john Williams, etc...) and went little by little. The other thing I do is have a lot of playlists and smart playlists. I even have a smart playlist that contains every file NOT on any other playlist (in other to know exactly wich files aren't tagged yet).

It's a painful proccess at first, but now I actually like the way I can find any song in seconds an can generate a playlist from scratch very fast and easily.

I also got help from my gf (she's a tag freak even though she uses windows exclusively), so I simply deleted untagged files if could get a hold on a tagged one. I don't find myself silly for not taggin, I'm just lazy.

as for file compatibility, download flip4mac and perian. Good luck

Thato
 
word....thanks man. very helpful. i take solace in the fact that others find itunes a little daunting at first. and thus begins my journey......i appreciate all the help (and sorry for being snide every now and then....)

-buddhanoir
 
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