Help me decide on a ppc machine

[Cox Orange]

Ask them for the serial number (on the back of the foot or when they boot into OS X and click on the apple icon in the upper left corner and then on "about this Mac" -> "more info") and type the serial in the searchfield of appleserialnumberinfo.com (you only have 3 tries every 24h).
Other people use Mactracker, but I am too stupid to use it (I only installe dit once and searched a serial and it didn't give me an answer... and I had no will to figure it out any further).

An additional note on the PowerBook G4 1GHz, it is not the 12" nor the 17", but the 15" one! It is faster than the imac not because of the higher CPU only, but it also has 167MHz FSB and faster RAM (which will probably not do much), but also the best Graphics card. If I remember correctly Cubase isn't hard on the graphics card, but who knows). (you can see it all here http://www.everymac.com/ultimate-mac-comparison-chart/?compare=all-powerpc-macs you just have to pick each model from the list).

If you have several tracks under one another, the 17" iMac might be not bad, for working, the PowerBooks 15" display though will give you more "room" to look ahead in single tracks.

Maybe, if you are really cheap you want to consider all possible options (despite the towers, that you have no room for) and look up the prices on Ebay via their backwards search. If you search e.g. "PowerBook G4 1GHz and then hit enter, on the next page scroll down, till you see something like "sold items" on the very left. Mark that one and you will get all sold items of this kind and then you can sort it from price smallest to biggest (mind there might be defective ones in the lower price range, but you can look that up easily, I think).

 

[bunnspecial]

Ask them for the serial number (on the back of the foot or when they boot into OS X and click on the apple icon in the upper left corner and then on "about this Mac" -> "more info") and type the serial in the searchfield of appleserialnumberinfo.com (you only have 3 tries every 24h).
Other people use Mactracker, but I am too stupid to use it (I only installe dit once and searched a serial and it didn't give me an answer... and I had no will to figure it out any further).

An additional note on the PowerBook G4 1GHz, it is not the 12" nor the 17", but the 15" one! It is faster than the imac not because of the higher CPU only, but it also has 167MHz FSB and faster RAM (which will probably not do much), but also the best Graphics card. If I remember correctly Cubase isn't hard on the graphics card, but who knows). (you can see it all here http://www.everymac.com/ultimate-mac-comparison-chart/?compare=all-powerpc-macs you just have to pick each model from the list).

If you have several tracks under one another, the 17" iMac might be not bad, for working, the PowerBooks 15" display though will give you more "room" to look ahead in single tracks.

Maybe, if you are really cheap you want to consider all possible options (despite the towers, that you have no room for) and look up the prices on Ebay via their backwards search. If you search e.g. "PowerBook G4 1GHz and then hit enter, on the next page scroll down, till you see something like "sold items" on the very left. Mark that one and you will get all sold items of this kind and then you can sort it from price smallest to biggest (mind there might be defective ones in the lower price range, but you can look that up easily, I think).

The downside to a 1.0ghz AlBook is that it can't natively boot OS 9, since that seems to be a requirement.

One other thing to consider when comparing it to a 1ghz TiBook is that the Ti has 1mb L3 cache, which somewhat makes up for the slower system bus(133mhz). The graphics, of course, are better in the Al(Radeon 9600 vs. Radeon 9200) although the big advantage of the 9600(Core Image support) is lost unless you're running 10.4 or 10.5. Both have the same amount of VRAM(64mb).

 

[Cox Orange]

I thought the 15" model is the last Tibook? It is also listed as boot OS 9 on everymac.

Edit: this http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/specs/powerbook_g4_1.0.html but I was wrong about the video card. (It has a 9000-64MB vs 4MX-32MB in the iMac.)
I should have known it. How would it have the 9600, when the 9700 was but put in the last models? Sorry.

Edit2: He could also use a fast external SATA HDD via the PC-Card Bus on the TiBook, ... but I am maybe thinking to "tinker-ish".

Edit3: could one replace the optical drive in the iMac G4 with a HDD (since it's 3,5")?

 

[bunnspecial]

I thought the 15" model is the last Tibook? It is also listed as boot OS 9 on everymac.

Edit: this http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/specs/powerbook_g4_1.0.html but I was wrong about the video card. (It has a 9000.)
I should have known it. How would it have the 9600, when the 9700 was but put in the last models? Sorry.

There's a 1ghz Ti and a 1ghz 15" Al(all Tis are 15"). The Als can't boot OS 9, but the 15" 1ghz does have a 9600. There are no OS 9 drivers/extensions for the 9600, so it would be a much less than ideal combination.

The 3rd generation Al 15", which came in 1.33ghz and 1.5ghz, had the 9700 which was continued in the 15" and 17" models until the end of the Powerbook line.

The 1ghz Ti does have the R9000(not the 9200 as I mentioned above) and runs great under OS 9. As I mentioned above, it has a 133mhz FSB unlike the 167mhz in the AlBook. The TiBook does have 1mb L3 cache(lacking in the AlBooks) which makes a pretty big real world difference.

 

[Dronecatcher]

The TiBook does have 1mb L3 cache(lacking in the AlBooks)

The 17" 1Ghz Al book has the L3 cache which makes it an oddity - would love to know how it compares to the 15" Al.

 

[BigRed1]

I may have found a good, cheap option, but it seems to be a computer that shouldn't exist, which makes me suspicious.

CL has a 1.25 ghz emac running os 9.2 only. As far as I can tell, the 1.25 emacs didn't natively support os 9.

Here is the listing:http://denver.craigslist.org/sys/5090746736.html

 

[Dronecatcher]

I may have found a good, cheap option, but it seems to be a computer that shouldn't exist, which makes me suspicious.

CL has a 1.25 ghz emac running os 9.2 only. As far as I can tell, the 1.25 emacs didn't natively support os 9.

Here is the listing:http://denver.craigslist.org/sys/5090746736.html

It runs OS9 in Classic mode but can't boot from OS9.

 

[gooser]

what is also possible is that it is not a 1.25ghz. go take a look.

 

[BigRed1]

Yeah, I'm thinking I'll either take a look at it or just buy it and go from there. $25 is not a whole lot of risk.

The description and screenshot makes it seem like os x isn't even installed, so I'm guessing it's the 1 ghz model.

 

[Cox Orange]

Well, I don't know how good the OS 9 hack works, but over at mac os 9 lives forum (which I have mentioned earlier) they have a guide on how to make unsupported machines OS 9 bootable. Read there first and find out, if it really works.

25,-? I would have thought the eMacs are already in the 10-15,- region.

 

[bunnspecial]

Well, I don't know how good the OS 9 hack works, but over at mac os 9 lives forum (which I have mentioned earlier) they have a guide on how to make unsupported machines OS 9 bootable. Read there first and find out, if it really works.

25,-? I would have thought the eMacs are already in the 10-15,- region.

I admire the great work of the folks over there and have used their hack to boot unsupported machines into OS 9. It took a lot of knowledge and work to get to that point, and I can't begin to say how much I admire the folks who put the time into it.

With that said, there is a lingering issue of the fact that OS 9 does not natively support any GPU more advanced than a Radeon 9200 or an GEForce 4(MX or Ti). On a tower, this is no big deal as you just put in a supported GPU. When your GPU is on the logic board, however(portables, iMacs, eMacs) you're pretty much stuck with what you have. If the GPU supports core image, to my knowledge at least there's no way to get hardware acceleration in OS 9. On an LCD, you may also find yourself limited to an 800x600 window in the middle of the screen. I don't know if a work-around has been found yet(I would be very surprised if someone isn't working on it) but in many cases this is a less than idea solution.

 

[Cox Orange]

Ah, ok. I didn't know that. I wonder, if they could ever solve the missing HW acceleration, since I know from flashed Mac cards as the 9000, the 9200 and the 9800, that they do not support HW acceleration in OS 9 in towers, too, while their similar original Mac retail cards do. So, if the people who wrote the ROMs for flashing the cards didn't solve the problem, how would the OS 9 folks solve it on a soldered GPU. For the 9000, themacelite shows a guide where one has to solder something on the PC-card after flashing and that will make HW functioning on a flashed 9000. Hm, what a pitty.

Probably a good reason to look out for Macs that don't have a higher card than the once you named, if one needs HW acceleration and wants do buy an unsupported machine.
I wonder if Cubase profits from any HW acceleration. I would guess no.

 

[BigRed1]

Thanks for all of the help. I just (finally) picked up a 1ghz Powerbook G4 (powerbook3,5) with 768 mb of RAM. I think I have a spare 512 chip floating around, so I'll be able to max that out at 1 gb ram. The case is somewhat coming apart and the screen does not latch closed, but actually looks better than most other titanium models I've seen. It has the 80gb hard drive and I'm trying to figure out if I should just keep this one or try to replace it with something newer/faster. Considering I only paid $35 for the computer, perhaps I'll just run with it as is for a while to see how it goes. It only has 10.4.11 on it, so I'll have to find my old 9.2 install disc, partition and install both OS X and OS 9 on there. It's going to be some work, but I'm definitely looking forward to it. Thanks again.

 

[128keaton]

Thanks for all of the help. I just (finally) picked up a 1ghz Powerbook G4 (powerbook3,5) with 768 mb of RAM. I think I have a spare 512 chip floating around, so I'll be able to max that out at 1 gb ram. The case is somewhat coming apart and the screen does not latch closed, but actually looks better than most other titanium models I've seen. It has the 80gb hard drive and I'm trying to figure out if I should just keep this one or try to replace it with something newer/faster. Considering I only paid $35 for the computer, perhaps I'll just run with it as is for a while to see how it goes. It only has 10.4.11 on it, so I'll have to find my old 9.2 install disc, partition and install both OS X and OS 9 on there. It's going to be some work, but I'm definitely looking forward to it. Thanks again.

Wow! A 1Ghz Ti for $35?

 

[bunnspecial]

Congratulations on getting the "best of the best" OS 9 laptops. Aside from the clock speed increase over the base 867mhz model of this generation, the 1ghz ones have an additional advantage in that they have 64MB VRAM vs. 32 mb in the 867mhz.

I seem to see more 1ghz models than 867s, so I suspect that a lot of buyers at the time saw the advantage too.

I also have Leopard running on all of my TiBooks from my 400mhz all the way up to both my 1ghz models. They actually handle Leopard very well(although the GPU drags down the older models a fair bit).

Max the RAM and enjoy! Mine will tear up c. 2000 games!

My 867mhz(which I gave to my dad for him to play Civ II) has a 100gb 7200 rpm HDD. The 7200 RPM drive perks up the computer a fair bit. An SSD will really perk one up, although you're still bottlenecked by the ATA66 bus.

 

[BigRed1]

Congratulations on getting the "best of the best" OS 9 laptops. Aside from the clock speed increase over the base 867mhz model of this generation, the 1ghz ones have an additional advantage in that they have 64MB VRAM vs. 32 mb in the 867mhz.....

Yeah, it seems great in os x so far. I'm guessing it'll fly in os 9! There are some real body issues now that I'm seeing it more, but the mechanicals seem OK so far. I just hope the optical drive works and I think I'm in the clear with a very good deal.

 

[bunnspecial]

I bought a 1ghz Ti for $40 or so that had the infamous "loose front" problem.

This is probably one of the most common cosmetic/structural issues I see on TiBooks.

Basically, there's a plastic "skeleton" that is attached to the bottom plate. This skeleton is what provides most of the mechanical support for the bottom. When set up properly, it should "hook" at the front of the body and then has a couple of snap tabs along the side. The skeleton actually does a decent job of holding the bottom on by itself, and the screws mostly just provide mechanical support along the back.

Many people unfamiliar with taking apart a TiBook will often try to simply lift the bottom straight off after removing the screws. The proper procedure is to start at the back and "hinge" it forward. Even someone familiar with the correct procedure can mess things up if the computer hasn't been opened in a while and all the hooks are very tight.

Fortunately, the glue holding the "skeleton" in place is generally MUCH weaker than the plastic itself, so what happens is that the skeleton just separates from the bottom. If you attempt to attach the bottom with only the screws after this has happened, you will probably find a large gap at the front.

I've had good luck using epoxy to re-attach the skeleton to the case bottom. Use the old glue as your guide. Just give it plenty of time to set up, and it will generally hold well.

 

[eyoungren]

Wow! A 1Ghz Ti for $35?

I paid $25 for my son's TiBook.

 

[eyoungren]

Yeah, it seems great in os x so far. I'm guessing it'll fly in os 9! There are some real body issues now that I'm seeing it more, but the mechanicals seem OK so far. I just hope the optical drive works and I think I'm in the clear with a very good deal.

You have a rocket. My son's TiBook flies on Leopard. I almost didn't give it to him way back when because I liked it so much.

 

[flyrod]

Thanks for the update! I'm glad you found what you wanted.

 

[BigRed1]

Man, that was a chore getting os 9 installed. I have a retail disc, but discovered that it was 9.1, which wouldn't install. I finally found a disc image that worked on my third try (thank you os9lives!). It took way too many hours to partition, reinstall os x 10.4, install os 9 and get most of my software installed. I found my old motu fastlane and the install disc.

The big problem I'm having is that the machine is connecting to my router, but won't see the network or connect to the internet. I suspect that I'll have to change the security scheme to something older.

The machine runs pretty smoothly, though, and I think I'll just leave it on tiger, which seems to be pretty good.

 

[eyoungren]

The big problem I'm having is that the machine is connecting to my router, but won't see the network or connect to the internet. I suspect that I'll have to change the security scheme to something older.

Yep.

10.3.9 with an update and higher for WPA connectivity with TKIP encryption (AES will not work). Anything less is WEP.

The original Airport card which the TiBooks use will not connect to WPA2. Airport Extreme will, but you need an AlBook for that.

 

[bunnspecial]

Yep.

10.3.9 with an update and higher for WPA connectivity with TKIP encryption (AES will not work). Anything less is WEP.

The original Airport card which the TiBooks use will not connect to WPA2. Airport Extreme will, but you need an AlBook for that.

The other solution is to remove the internal Airport card and then use an Airport Extreme compatible PCMCIA card. These are plug and play under OS X(10.4 and later I think, may some later versions of 10.3) and will support all modern encryption standards. You also get 802.11g speeds.

I have one that I've used in a bunch of different computers-from my Pismo all the way up to my TiBooks-and it works great albeit at the cost of a big lump on the side of the computer.

These are also completely dead in OS 9, but the right card(with a Broadcom chipset) will work natively in OS X.

They are all over Ebay for about $10 as a generic "Airport Extreme PCMCIA card" although the one I have was made by Belkin.

I'll add that I use an Airport card(the real Apple one) under OS 9, and generally connect to my router's "guest" network at home.

 

[eyoungren]

The other solution is to remove the internal Airport card and then use an Airport Extreme compatible PCMCIA card. These are plug and play under OS X(10.4 and later I think, may some later versions of 10.3) and will support all modern encryption standards. You also get 802.11g speeds.

I have one that I've used in a bunch of different computers-from my Pismo all the way up to my TiBooks-and it works great albeit at the cost of a big lump on the side of the computer.

These are also completely dead in OS 9, but the right card(with a Broadcom chipset) will work natively in OS X.

They are all over Ebay for about $10 as a generic "Airport Extreme PCMCIA card" although the one I have was made by Belkin.

I'll add that I use an Airport card(the real Apple one) under OS 9, and generally connect to my router's "guest" network at home.

I just picked up this one for my son on Wed. Supposed to be here by Saturday - just in time for Starbucks which has, as you know, cut off all Macs with the original Airport card.

If you get the Belkin F5D7010 you want the one with either the 1315 or 1112 revision. As indicated here:
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Airport-Ext...-Apple-Powerbook-G3-/10000000003123879/g.html

 

[BigRed1]

I have USB 802.11g stick. I think it's a belkin. I died plugging that in, but couldn't figure out how to get it to work. If I simply remove the airport card, perhaps that work.