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The major complaints from the staff were:
- There are no virus scans on a Mac.
- You can't get disk defrag on a Mac.
- Vista is more secure.
- There is no Aero theme for Mac.
- Powerpoint doesn't work on a Mac.
- There is a different internet for Macs and it has less content (yes they were serious and I couldn't stop laughing).
- Adobe doesn't make software for Mac.
- Apple sells less than 10,000 computers world wide each year so it will go out of business and we wont be able to support our equipment. (kind of funny because they are leasing the stuff, so it wouldn't make any difference).
- Macs don't have M$ Moive Maker.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your post.

At our local school, I found the solution to the misinformation problem: I organized a school committee to evaluate technology choices and make recommendations for computer purchases, and I run it. Ever since I started helping, we've gone from zero Macs to hundreds of them.

If you want something done right, do it yourself!
 
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You will need a copy of Windows
link removed
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Just be aware that offers of that nature are NOT legitimate copies of Windows- you are just buying a disk copy of a volume licensed install of XP- which is specifically prohibited as that only legally allows for enterprise wide installs for the original purchaser.

Note the text on the site (among other giveaways):"By pressing this button you agree that you are purchasing the software that does NOT include any COA label or a sticker from the manufacturer & comes on a CD ,There is no technical support provided by the software manufacturer. You can still get automatic updates. You will receive the Full version on CD & a volume license key number only. All the software we offer in the English language only."

An actual legal working copy of Windows XP Home Edition with SP3 (the so called OEM disks that are actually "System Builder" disks) that works great with BootCamp can be had for $89 at newegg.com among other suppliers:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116511&Tpk=32-116-511
 
I appreciate your post, Doctor Q.

It's frustrating because this is a brand new school - opened only a year ago. They could have started out with Macs . . . and just didn't. Now they've grown from 30 to 60 kids - still not a lot - but switching at this point would mean having to purchase 60 new laptops instead of 30. And they'd have to deal with the fact that the friggin' software they've already purchased won't work on a Mac!

But, of course, the longer they delay making the change, the harder it gets. Certainly it would be better to switch now than 5 years from now. But I'm not even sure how to go about it. We'd probably have to get all 60 laptops donated at this point. I don't think the school even has the money for the 30 additional PCs they need. I'm pretty sure their plan for this year was to let the students share.

At some point, though, they're going to have to buy more . . . and that would probably be the time to try and convince them to make the switch. But, as I said, I've no experience with this. If anyone has any suggestions on how to approach it, please let me know.

I guess there are statistics on actual operating costs over a period of years - and I've no doubt those would favor the Mac over the PC. Doctor Q, how did you sway the powers that be at your school?
 
So it looks like an older PC will be the way to go. I've already checked craigslist, and there's an "Acer TravelMate 2480" for $300 not too far from here. Windows XP Pro, Office 2003, and 2 gigs of ram. If that's a decent price, and it's still available, that may be it. And I'll consider it pretty much disposable . . . just a stopgap 'til we can do something better.
Just a quick warning: Office 2003 can't read .docx files. To read those, you need Office 2007 for PC, or Office 2008 for Mac.
 
I'm partial to OSX myself, but i have a high-end Vista box in addition to a G4. I got the PC for gaming and was already a competent Windows users. However, I would recommend letting them use whatever they want him to use. He can't just not use them ever. My dad did that (Now 68), and whenever he has to use a Windows PC, he doesn't. He has absolutely no idea how to perform the simplest task, like save a document. Or open a document. Really.

Being fluent in both "major" OS's is more valuable than sticking with OSX for the sake of sticking with OSX.

As you already know, many of the things that he's been convinced of are untrue and based on ignorance rather than knowledge. Such as:

And the worst of it is that they've convinced my kid that his computer (a very nice little 14" iBook) is inferior to their Pieces of C*** because it can't readily deal with the stuff they're sending him. (Someone has also convinced him that his MAC is inferior because it doesn't have all the nifty virus protection their PCs have!!!

Explain that to him, the evidence isn't hard to find or back up.
 
I appreciate your post, Doctor Q.

It's frustrating because this is a brand new school - opened only a year ago. They could have started out with Macs . . . and just didn't. Now they've grown from 30 to 60 kids - still not a lot - but switching at this point would mean having to purchase 60 new laptops instead of 30. And they'd have to deal with the fact that the friggin' software they've already purchased won't work on a Mac!

But, of course, the longer they delay making the change, the harder it gets. Certainly it would be better to switch now than 5 years from now. But I'm not even sure how to go about it. We'd probably have to get all 60 laptops donated at this point. I don't think the school even has the money for the 30 additional PCs they need. I'm pretty sure their plan for this year was to let the students share.

At some point, though, they're going to have to buy more . . . and that would probably be the time to try and convince them to make the switch. But, as I said, I've no experience with this. If anyone has any suggestions on how to approach it, please let me know.

I guess there are statistics on actual operating costs over a period of years - and I've no doubt those would favor the Mac over the PC. Doctor Q, how did you sway the powers that be at your school?

Yeah god forbid they actually get computers with an operating system that the overwhelming majority of kids have home.

You're probably going to say that there are others with the same problem, but I know you would be lying.

Seriously you're whole argument is that your son has a MAC and the whole school should change because the apple OS, surprise surprise, can't run a piece of software that he needs .
So you want everyone else to go out and get a new overpriced computer so their kids can run a selection of mediocre iLife products designed to pigeon hole them it to a selection of limited applications under the guise of them being ‘creative and easy to use’

Get the kid an eepc.
 
An off topic question but really nhcowboy...... is that 12 year old you yourself?

Any ways..... back to answer your question.... Doc Q's suggestion is a good one but its easier said than done and its problematic as well since not all authorities are as friendly!
If you want some thing easier.... grab a couple of reviews from trusted sources around the web like CNet and PCMag/PCWorld (dont use MacWorld), get a print out and carry some copies.... if anyone says anything - hand them each a copy!

As for your problems.... get a cheap PC laptop or try Microsoft Virtual PC for Mac (PPC only, slow)
 
An off topic question but really nhcowboy...... is that 12 year old you yourself?

Goodness, no - I'm really just the frustrated parent . . . and several decades beyond 12 years old I'm happy to say!

I appreciate your suggestion. I know there is also a website around here somewhere that's devoted to just this kind of thing - literally page after page after page of statistics showing why macs are a better classroom investment than pcs. It probably won't be too hard to find again once I've gotten a bit of sleep.
 
I guess there are statistics on actual operating costs over a period of years - and I've no doubt those would favor the Mac over the PC. Doctor Q, how did you sway the powers that be at your school?
We wrote a mission statement that made our goals clear: to make the best use of computers to help instructors in the teaching of all subjects, as opposed to teaching students about computers themselves. That defused the oft-heard statement that we should teach students about PC hardware and the Windows O.S. to get them ready to get a job using a PC. Instead, we teach them English, math, social studies, science, and other subjects, and use computers in the classroom however they can help.

Almost every year somebody brings up the Mac vs. PC debate, and we point out that a PC, once equipped with software to match the elegant software that comes with Mac OS X, is roughly the cost of a Mac, that TCO (total cost of ownership) can favor the Mac, and especially that Macs have little if any issues with viruses; that's typically important to people comparing the platforms. We point out how Apple's all-in-one models like the iMac make it easy to set up computers in the classroom; teachers hate tangles of cables as much as anyone else.

We admit that there is more software for Windows, but point out in the same breath that much of it is not applicable to use in schools. They need to know that Macs have quality educational software, including MS Office and Adobe's suites, Firefox and other web browsers, utilities for teachers, subject-specific programs, and almost anything else they might plan to use.

Technical experts like many MacRumors members could argue the tradeoffs more precisely, but we're often dealing with a less technical audience. We go over the main points in an organized fashion that explains rather than lectures. And we don't insist on Macs if that's not what a particular teacher wants to use. After we show them the tradeoffs, most teachers choose Macs, but we keep in mind that the important issue is whether they'll be able to use what they get effectively in teaching.

One other thing: Schools, at least in my area, rely a lot on volunteers. If there's a smiling volunteer offering to help with a teacher's Macs, they are much more confident in the choice to use them. We don't expect teachers to be computer experts. I've set up maybe 200 classroom Macs personally and I make it a point to answer any questions the teachers has, to get them off to a good start. As time goes on, if they get prompt help whenever they need it, vague rumors about "problems with the Macs" are nipped in the bud, and teachers catch the enthusiasm as they see other teachers successfully teaching with Macs.

By giving fair assessments and describing what Macs can do whenever the subject comes up, I have gained support for our Mac-based program from people in authority who started out with an ardent Windows-only attitude.
 
The major complaints from the staff were:
- There are no virus scans on a Mac.
- You can't get disk defrag on a Mac.
- Vista is more secure.
- There is no Aero theme for Mac.
- Powerpoint doesn't work on a Mac.
- There is a different internet for Macs and it has less content (yes they were serious and I couldn't stop laughing).
- Adobe doesn't make software for Mac.
- Apple sells less than 10,000 computers world wide each year so it will go out of business and we wont be able to support our equipment. (kind of funny because they are leasing the stuff, so it wouldn't make any difference).
- Macs don't have M$ Moive Maker.
Simply amazing. And I can empathize with you.

The thing was that the teachers were so misinformed about Apple and what they can offer, the worst bit was convincing them. Most long term users of any system get a mindset and it is very hard to change even if there is a far better system.
So true.

IMHO, there is a lot of misinformation concerning both Macs and PCs regarding their capabilities and limitations.

Sometimes, I have to really bite my tongue when I hear some of the drivel being expounded by some folks.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your post.
I had the same initial feeling.

At our local school, I found the solution to the misinformation problem
I would venture to say that this is usually the case.

The exceptions to this, that I have experienced, are when there is someone who is adamantly opposed to Macs for whatever reason.

Yeah, believe it or not, there are a lot of people out there that just don't understand the Mac.
Understatement of the year! ;)

We wrote a mission statement that made our goals clear: to make the best use of computers to help instructors in the teaching of all subjects, as opposed to teaching students about computers themselves. <snip>
Awesome idea.

Having a mission statement with goals makes it easy to focus on a more objective evaluation. Didn't know you did Quality Management. :D
 
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your post.

At our local school, I found the solution to the misinformation problem: I organized a school committee to evaluate technology choices and make recommendations for computer purchases, and I run it. Ever since I started helping, we've gone from zero Macs to hundreds of them.

If you want something done right, do it yourself!

That was my my reaction at first, I thought the questions for me were done as a joke... They weren't :rolleyes:

But to the school's credit they did decide to go with my suggestion of a portable computer lab and all MacBoooks with Leopard.

IMHO it comes down to knowledge, once people can see the Pepsi taste test in action they will (well should) pick the better option.
 
Just be aware that offers of that nature are NOT legitimate copies of Windows

Sorry... I just Googled and grabbed the first site
My bad, and you are right

Woof, Woof - Dawg
pawprint.gif
 
Well you were because here in Greece everything is Windows....I mean everything....

When i first bought my Mac i had never seen a Mac in real time!!!

Imagine that...
Why do you think that is, gusious? Is Apple not making much effort to advertise and sell in Greece? Is the educational system somehow against Macs?
 
Is Apple not making much effort to advertise and sell in Greece?
My guess is that's the issue right there. Until recently Apple made absolutely no effort to advertise even here in the UK, and even now Mac TV ads hide away late night on minor channels whilst iPhone ads dominate during prime time. Luckily we have Apple Stores which do the marketing job for them. In Greece they're not so lucky.
 
Why do you think that is, gusious? Is Apple not making much effort to advertise and sell in Greece? Is the educational system somehow against Macs?

No they aren't.I had never seen an Apple Product (except iPods) in a magazine. Neither on an online Store.

It must have been since January that i first saw some MacBooks and MBP in a magazine....

We don't even have an Apple Store!!!!We have a small company which isn't exactly authorized by Apple that sells Apple Products and it really sucks!!!!If it was authorized then it's name would be Apple Store and not "Rainbow"....:(

Also, i see Gates having a very good policy.He is focusing on selling his products to other countries than America.Apple cares mostly for America.Not trying to expand. Imagine that Gates offered to sell to our Government cheaper Windows Pc for schools....

Oh, most people here in Greece only knows Apple from their iPod.When they are trying to explain me something and i say wait, i've got a Mac they say huh??? It's an OS by Apple. Huh???That company with the Apple logo?That sells iPods???their answer is:Oh!!!!!Now i get it!

See what i mean?
 
how about an Asus EEE 901 with windows (alternative option would be MSI wind with windows) those laptops are "netbooks"; they are small, light, have good battery lives, and are inexpensive (but good quality).
 
You should SPAM their email with a link to this thread. Im sure they will receive it through their ancient outlook express.
 
i think a lot of people here are showing their fanboyism..

there is nothing wrong with windows, and if your son is looking at a future in science and engineering then he will have to conform to industry standards at some point or other.

the easiest solution (and the one that everyone in this thread missed) is to simply buy a windows desktop. you can get a cheap desktop fulfilling all of your needs for less than $100, possibly even cheaper. the minimum that you probably need is the ability to run office 2007+ and visual studio for windows-based programming courses.

i can't imagine why a 12 year old needs a portable notebook (and he already has an ibook, why does he need another laptop?). nobody needs a notebook for academics, not even in college. bringing a laptop with you for lectures is very overrated. 99% of the time, a good old notepad + pen or copy of the lecture notes are your best friend, and a laptop only serves to distract you. classes that require computers are also held in labs and often use proprietary software that you just don't have licenses for.

a desktop is much cheaper, and is overall a better option than using a virtual machine. vmware/fusion do not work for all windows programs, and are optimized for even less. just go with the flow
 
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the easiest solution (and the one that everyone in this thread missed) is to simply buy a windows desktop. you can get a cheap desktop fulfilling all of your needs for less than $100, possibly even cheaper. the minimum that you probably need is the ability to run office 2007+ and visual studio for windows-based programming courses.

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Just don't tell the posters that wrote posts #2, #3, #8 and #16. I doubt that they will agree that your solution was missed since they all mentioned the same thing... ;)
 
I would complain to the Board of Ed.

And my senior year in HS, the school was going to get Macs, but due to misinformation they decided to go to Dells. Everything complained.

Then they raised our taxes again, but I told them I wasn't paying for Dells.
 
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