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newellj

macrumors G3
Oct 15, 2014
8,127
3,030
East of Eden
I have always turned all that stuff off. When I bought an X, I figured they would need all the input they could gather, so I turned it all on. I really don't have many concerns about Apple's privacy stance. Amazon and Google, on the other hand...
 

macTW

Suspended
Oct 17, 2016
1,395
1,975
I wish we could get to the root of why Apple felt they needed this article out there.
Likely some combination of the following:

- to motivate talent to work for Apple, with the promise of publishing their discoveries.
- to slyly recommend this method of data collection with privacy to other companies.
- to inform the ill-informed about the depth to which Apple values and prioritizes privacy.
 
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lunarworks

macrumors 68000
Jun 17, 2003
1,972
5,213
Toronto, Canada
I do wonder how quickly Apple could advance their AI if they had some kind of opt-in feature in iOS and macOS that let users share even more data so that Apple could get more granular data about their users. I think lots of people would give their data to Apple provided an appropriate opt-out method was in place.
But then their data would be heavily skewed towards the kind of person who would opt into that.
 

uber_nerd

macrumors member
Aug 19, 2004
41
0
Has anyone confirmed that this is how it actually works? No. How many companies have claimed not to be collect personal information, only to have it later revealed that they are. Until this is verified in detail by a third party, this is all privacy theater.
 

asdavis10

macrumors 6502
Feb 3, 2008
460
2,564
Bermuda
But then their data would be heavily skewed towards the kind of person who would opt into that.

I agree that it could be skewed if only certain kinds of users opt in, but I think the pool of data would be as diverse and in the same proportion as the existing user base. Just smaller. I feel like allowing people to contribute to making AI better would have more benefits than the current approach.
 

jkdsteve

macrumors member
Sep 12, 2006
96
166
I wish we could get to the root of why Apple felt they needed this article out there.

I think it's a defensive ploy, they are always painted as a company who preys on customers goodwill or lack of intellect.....ironically they seem to be painted that way largely by the people/companies whose business model relies on collecting personal data.
 

falainber

macrumors 68040
Mar 16, 2016
3,429
4,000
Wild West
I still don't get it. From this article it looks like Apple is collecting statistical data. For example, which emojies are liked most (not by you, but in general). If that is indeed the case and Apple does not collect any data on your own actions then it simply means that Siri (and other services, like Maps) will remain useless because without knowing anything about you, how can it help?
 
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redgreenski

macrumors regular
Aug 17, 2017
209
461
Probably because there are a small group of ill-informed people who think Apple is spying on them (tin foil hats ready) :rolleyes:

Apple’s stance on privacy is one of the (many reasons) I like and continue to use Apple products.
100% agree. Apple privacy is what I value the most. Most people don’t realize is that it is not the Apple who is spying on the but the App Store Apps with shady privacy policies that sell your email, texts, browsing history to advertisers. I stay with both Apple made hardware and apps.
 
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Googlyhead

macrumors 6502
Apr 19, 2010
484
282
I still don't get it. From this article it looks like Apple is collecting statistical data. For example, which emojies are liked most (not by you, but in general). If that is indeed the case and Apple does not collect any data on your own actions then it simply means that Siri (and other services, like Maps) will remain useless because without knowing anything about you, how can it help?
I was thinking something similar; they're collecting a statistical sample of usage data, but aside from specific inputs (words or emoji); there's nothing that would actually lead to improvements of the user experience.
For example;
I pan around a webpage. At some point one of the annoying gestures gets invoked (resulting in reloading previous/next, or pulling in a system sheet. As a result; Apple records this as the gesture being "useful"/used, even though it's simply unintentional, and causes user frustration.

Simply; statistics without (listening to) feedback are pointless or counterproductive.
 

warp9

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2017
450
641
Did you actually read the article? It's about how Apple is exploiting user data, with their consent, while retaining privacy.
You misunderstood the post. The complaint was this: Apple's love of privacy is keeping them from advancing features that take advantage of personal data like what Google, Amazon, and Facebook are doing.
 

springsup

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2013
1,227
1,223
I think the privacy campaign is all apple has left in the tank. When things go to @**t, apple marketing pulls out the privacy card and plays it hard.

Then again, at other times, other people will rant about how nobody takes privacy seriously because they're too busy swimming in free shizzle from the likes of Google. It's easy to become complacent.

Privacy is very far from "all Apple has left in the tank". Privacy is not an Apple-exclusive feature; I'm sure the strength of the iOS software ecosystem, for instance, is a much more valuable asset.
 

abhibeckert

macrumors 6502
Jun 2, 2007
429
592
Cairns, Australia
If I enable this on my iPhone, will it affect the battery usage?
As far as I know, it sends the data to Apple when you leave your phone on charge overnight while within range of a wifi router.

So no, won't affect battery.
[doublepost=1512631533][/doublepost]
But the more Apple tries using "Privacy" as their unique marketing angle, the more I see other products improve by "exploiting" user data while Apple stuff hits some hard limitations.
What are these hard limitations? Can you name any features Google has that Apple can't do because of their privacy policy?

I started to actively avoid Google after Snowden revealed the NSA had secretly hacked into Google's datacentre network to bypass SSL. Since then I've honestly lost touch with what Google is doing – the only thing I use is search, and even then only after I'm unsatisfied with results from other search engines.

Interested to know if I'm missing out... although I can't imagine what would be worth giving up my privacy.
 

chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,564
11,307
I was thinking something similar; they're collecting a statistical sample of usage data, but aside from specific inputs (words or emoji); there's nothing that would actually lead to improvements of the user experience.
For example;
I pan around a webpage. At some point one of the annoying gestures gets invoked (resulting in reloading previous/next, or pulling in a system sheet. As a result; Apple records this as the gesture being "useful"/used, even though it's simply unintentional, and causes user frustration.

Simply; statistics without (listening to) feedback are pointless or counterproductive.

In your example, they could simply go one step further and not only record the invocation of a gesture, but also the percentage of how often that gesture is quickly undone: "Do a lot of people swipe left, then immediately frantically look for the forward button to go to where they were?"
 

Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
This automatically collection is all well and good, but you can do all of this via feeback form anyway, which is what i always do.

I'm willing to (possibly) give up some of my privacy in order for Apple to improve their products.

I'm willing to give up some things too, but only when i think it's ok by me..

Automatically done, is just more about "convenience so i don't have to think about it"

Something i have no problem to take on board my own.
 

s15119

macrumors 68000
Nov 20, 2010
1,856
1,714
I think the privacy campaign is all apple has left in the tank. When things go to @**t, apple marketing pulls out the privacy card and plays it hard.

Yeah, with those last quarter revenues at only $52.6 billion, things have sure gone to S**t. ridiculous
 

DeepIn2U

macrumors G5
May 30, 2002
12,826
6,880
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Their ML blog is always interesting to read, and differential privacy is a good idea.
I always check the box for sharing info with Apple and with developers, it helps a lot

I wonder if they'll publish an chart for the most popular animoji character in the future, I bet on the poop

Amazing how the laughing with tears emoji became the most popular.

Um, I think it is amazing that the first 2 posts on such a article/thread is about commenting about analytics highlighting Emoji.

What Happened to AutoCorrect analytics to fix what iOS 10 & 11 have constantly been screwing up with?
What about focusing on Health Analytics and how that aids Apple's, Universities, and Developer's software and focus?
What about how applications sharing data amongst the core OS and core OS applications?
What about how Analytics helps Apple decide the re-arrangement of the Settings App since iOS 4 onward; that would be quite interesting.
What about how Analystics is helping, ahem SUPPOSED TO HELP Siri advance more, speed up Siri, make her more useful and more adept to conversational querries? How it helps Apple develop their iOS cpu's?


Probably because there are a small group of ill-informed people who think Apple is spying on them (tin foil hats ready) :rolleyes:

Apple’s stance on privacy is one of the (many reasons) I like and continue to use Apple products.

I think the privacy campaign is all apple has left in the tank. When things go to @**t, apple marketing pulls out the privacy card and plays it hard.

You mean U.S. Conress? ;)
Yeah, Apple needed to keep Congress at bay.

Why does my quick type auto correct always screw up and misspell normal words I’ve misspelled in the past then?
Is there anyway to reset your keyboard auto correct words? Been like that for years

And it's getting worse ... care to guess where Federighi's team is focused on? Just look at the first 2 posts in this thread, you'll see where it seems to pay off for marketing iOS to the masses. It's fun and helps people escape the more serious things in the world.

Apples stance on privacy is one of the (many reasons) I am getting sick of Apple products.

"User Experience" has always been what kept me in my happy little Apple bubble. But the more Apple tries using "Privacy" as their unique marketing angle, the more I see other products improve by "exploiting" user data while Apple stuff hits some hard limitations.

Of course Privacy is important. But people act as if Google is selling our childrens social security numbers and trading our bank accounts to China. But the reality of it is that its just a two way street. I give up secrets about my browsing habits (OMG, they found out I'm shopping for a new Fridge!) and they give me info and results that I actually can use (Hey. Fridge review. Win Win. (Unless you have your Tin Foil hat inside out)

Great post!

I recall fighting the privacy fight when BlackBerry OS/BB10 had their day in the limelight. Slowly and painfully clinging onto that and realizing that pushing Privacy too hard began to take away from Blackberry's device, OS, creativity and advancements. They had potential and squandered it just breathing down everyone's neck about privacy over and over and ... blah blah blah. Until they couldn't do anything right, scurrying about. Now it's all they have left along with QNX which slowly will be a non-concern as well.

Regarding your take on Google and the "tin-foil hats" the other perception is this:
Google, is using your data (previously GMail data), phone numbers of your contacts, searches/search results, clicks, Android Apps, etc for their advertising financial gains. We/you just received an OS that is free yet no real tools to load it onto a phone you can buy bear-bones and load it yourself, configure it etc all from scratch. Instead you're STILL paying for their services and applications: via the contract price or the full retail price of the phone (grey market too), and for loosing the data of habits you do online. Prior to Google this really didn't exist too far from sites you visited (AltaVista, Yahoo, etc). AirMiles uses a points system but they collate the products you purchase - and with that the content of those products - heavily based on groceries. I'm not sure if AirMiles can a) link your grocery bill with the products within to your Credit Card (if that has your full name on it vs a prepaid CC) and b) sell them to a leading HMO who may link that to your name and your health conditions. Yes this is pure Tin-Foil Hat worry here ... I have no idea if there are any U.S.A. laws against this or for an HMO to take action against your insurance claims based on this kind of sourced data. I'm a Canadian Citizen so it would not really apply to me; then again not sure if any Canadian law prevents this either.

All in All ... Privacy of user data is an on-going game of moves, decisions, and mostly discussions as time and technology and the data is sourced evolves. We need those views/opinions/decisions of those that WISH to share their data openly/completely and those that do NOT WISH to share their data at all; as well as those inbetween. This is the only way we can all learn and find a sensible conversation, decisions, laws & code of conduct, and be able to establish those lines of such that suits all parties: Choice & Protection.
 

chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,564
11,307
And it's getting worse ... care to guess where Federighi's team is focused on? Just look at the first 2 posts in this thread, you'll see where it seems to pay off for marketing iOS to the masses. It's fun and helps people escape the more serious things in the world.

Where indeed is Federighi's "team" focused on? What do the dozens of directors, hundreds of managers, thousands of software engineers actually do?

I mean, when they're done drawing the emoji of the day, there probably isn't much time left to spare to maintain four (soon five) operating systems, two files systems, two programming languages (and I'm not counting AppleScript), their own browser engine, various consumer and prosumer apps, and all the things I forgot, right?

I mean, I'm sure it took a handful or more engineers to develop the Animoji feature. Thus, probably cost tens of thousands. Thing is, that's also a hugely popular feature and thus a driving motivator to buy the X, so, y'know, kinda seems worth it?

It's valid to ask, "hey, is Federighi too eager to run after the next whizbang feature, when he should put more emphasis on quality?" But bringing up emoji as the problem in Federighi's organization over and over and over again is just baffling. They're not the problem. They don't drain resources. They don't mess up quality. They don't have an adverse effect on performance. They delight those who use them, and are completely irrelevant to everyone else.

Oh, and if Apple opted to put fewer resources into them (y'know, even fewer than the probably very, very few resources they already take up), that'd be a terrible idea, because Facebook and Google will continue with emoji at the same pace, and users will blame Apple if they don't keep up.

Fault Apple for quality problems, fine. But not emoji.
 

DeepIn2U

macrumors G5
May 30, 2002
12,826
6,880
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Where indeed is Federighi's "team" focused on? What do the dozens of directors, hundreds of managers, thousands of software engineers actually do?

I mean, when they're done drawing the emoji of the day, there probably isn't much time left to spare to maintain four (soon five) operating systems, two files systems, two programming languages (and I'm not counting AppleScript), their own browser engine, various consumer and prosumer apps, and all the things I forgot, right?

I mean, I'm sure it took a handful or more engineers to develop the Animoji feature. Thus, probably cost tens of thousands. Thing is, that's also a hugely popular feature and thus a driving motivator to buy the X, so, y'know, kinda seems worth it?

It's valid to ask, "hey, is Federighi too eager to run after the next whizbang feature, when he should put more emphasis on quality?" But bringing up emoji as the problem in Federighi's organization over and over and over again is just baffling. They're not the problem. They don't drain resources. They don't mess up quality. They don't have an adverse effect on performance. They delight those who use them, and are completely irrelevant to everyone else.

Oh, and if Apple opted to put fewer resources into them (y'know, even fewer than the probably very, very few resources they already take up), that'd be a terrible idea, because Facebook and Google will continue with emoji at the same pace, and users will blame Apple if they don't keep up.

Fault Apple for quality problems, fine. But not emoji.


Great anectdot ... yet new features implemented should NEVER take away the quality and application of core system functionality and features that everyone uses and rely's on ... including their team! Especially if the tools to manage/create their OS they've built in-house.

Problem is the key creator of their programming language used for their core applications is no longer working for Apple and hasn't for a few months now.

I bring up Emoji over and over again because many like yourself find it baffling, such that hey it's great yet auto correct for 'IT" and a few other core examples it's used for in ALL their OS as you've mentioned (WatchOS, iOS, MacOS, TVOS) it's relied upon. Emoji is NOT present in TVOS yet autocorrect is. This is but one example if you've paid attention you'd realize it's NOT nor shouldn't be baffled about. We rely on the systems we've purchased, used, and integrated in our daily lives. Keeping a closed on on their core functionality when implementing a new feature is baffling to me, else how would you really use their new feature daily?

I mean how often do YOU type a sentence in all your applications vs emoji? I'm willing to bet even a 10 year old with an iPhone, MacOS types a sentence more without any emoji per hour of use, than they do with an emoji. No I don't have any way to measure this, or test this, but it would be a VERY interesting wager even if confined to North America demographics of all MacOS, iOS, and WatchOS users alone. I'd even side wager that WatchOS gets more emoji use per hour, per user than the other platforms Apple has due to the nature of quick use.

Most of the time that Emoji is used is within other platforms. If our core OS doesn't support the latest Emoji do you really think it would affect sales or core users enjoyment of iOS, MacOS, WatchOS? Why not let the keyboard be enabled for the platforms that use all those new emoji ... let those features lie where their best and mostly used. Did you miss Animoji when it was not announced? Did it affect you buying an iPhone X if it was never announced? highly unlikely.

There was a lot more to my complaint that you ignored ... the main points I brought up was the use of Analytics and what Apple or Macrumors only chose to highlight in a pictograph. My rebuttal is mostly do to what more iOS users can find useful of Analytics if presented beyond emoji. Sure Emoji maybe more important to you and many many others for right now, and more important than the Health analytics ... yet I'd bet at some point your health data will matter to you more than emoji ... time is a perfect gaurantee of that.

I use emoji ... seldomly, yet I do. my simple point on it was as more and more of it and new features of emoji is used, autocorrect and other core systems we all rely on - ALL - should not drop in quality. We're seeing reports that it has lately.
 
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