Would appreciate if you could link to some the files you have been playing so we can see this for ourselves.
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HEVC Support
- Thread starter Eliottjames
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Would appreciate if you could link to some the files you have been playing so we can see this for ourselves.
Don't thing so. From the website of Developer by Apple, a new function should need for set the HEVC video:
CMVideoFormatDescriptionCreateFromHEVCParameterSets which like the CMVideoFormatDescriptionCreateFromH264ParameterSets for H264,
so program need to modify to inform the Core Media as this is HEVC and let play.
However, the HEVC is beta support and Apple don't provide fully information about the implements, this should some method of implement H.264, the HEVC a little be complicated because with i see that they added some Constants for HDR and 10bit support.
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coremedia/1489818-cmvideoformatdescriptioncreatefr
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coremedia/cmvideocodectype
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coremedia/2872998-cmvideoformatdescriptioncreatefr
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Sure,
Try: http://jell.yfish.us
Or: http://www.libde265.org/downloads-videos/ (for even a 4K file, low-bitrate though)
I just tested:
- a 40Mbps 10-bit HEVC 1080p file with profile Main10@4.1@High
- a 50Mbps 8-bit HEVC 1080p file with profile Main10@5.0@High
and they both play back smoothly on my Mac using VLC and mpv.
Testing with a 60Mbps file, it did not play nice on VLC, but pretty smoothly on mpv.
Anyway, 60Mbps HEVC files are not in any way in the consumer scope. All lower bitrate files play nice on my Mac with those players (mpv has way better performance than vlc, mind you)
Again, this is tested on a Mac Mini 2012 i7 quad 2.6Ghz (with SSD) - maybe the cpu has something to do with it.
I’ve been looking in HEVC news and supported devices without really having an interest in 4K. Back in 2015, I bought a very specific 1080p Samsung TV that supported HEVC out of the box! I was with a usb stick filled with 60fps HEVC samples, testing them in store before I bought it! Plex on that TV supports direct HEVC playback. Again, a 1080p TV from 2015.
Since 2015, I never had any problem previewing those HEVC video files on my Mac. At about 5 Mbps you can get a very nice picture quality. I have archived some privately recorded 1080p tv shows @2Mbps HEVC and they are perfectly viewable (not the absolute greatest thing in picture quality, but so little space requirements!)
Would be nice to know at what bitrate (and profile) the iPhone 7 records (FHD & 4K)
Thanks. These are my results from the first link above. My machine is the MBP 2016 with Radeon Pro 455.
1. 10Mbps 10 bit.
http://jell.yfish.us/media/jellyfish-10-mbps-hd-hevc-10bit.mkv
Playback is fine but quality isn't that great on this one. Real time scrubbing is bad compared to h.264. If you check the info in VLC it's 4:2:0 so the colour depth isn't what you would expect to use at a professional level.
2. 40Mbps 10 bit.
http://jell.yfish.us/media/jellyfish-40-mbps-hd-hevc-10bit.mkv
Playback still good, quality much better. Real time scrubbing gets worse now and would be very painful if you were editing in this codec without hardware acceleration. Though some NLEs are very good at caching into temporary codecs.
3. 60Mbps 10 bit.
http://jell.yfish.us/media/jellyfish-60-mbps-hd-hevc-10bit.mkv
Playback still fine with no dropped frames. Scrubbing is now impossible. Just picking another point on the timeline takes about 10 seconds to start playing again.
4. 120 Mbps 10 bit.
http://jell.yfish.us/media/jellyfish-120-mbps-4k-uhd-hevc-10bit.mkv
This is about the maximum spec that the Blu-ray disc 4K standard uses.
There's no movement here. The first frame remains stuck.
Conclusion.
Software playback of 1080p h.265 content is fine at the lower bitrates, but quality isn't as good as h.264 content we already use. People also need to be able to scrub quickly for either editing or skipping forwards/backwards. If it's terrible on a very fast SSD then over the net it would hurt the consumer experience a lot.
Bitrates will be lower but for 1080p content most companies won't be converting thousands of titles to h.265 overnight. It takes a long time and a lot of resource to transcode so much content from scratch so they will be prioritising new content and 4K first.
For 4K they will need hardware acceleration in place in operating systems and playback software just to be able to test, implement and deliver. How long will that take? The industry will need Apple and Microsoft to push OS updates to consumers and we know that many people take a long time to update their operating systems.
As said several times, you likely need to change the type from 'hev1' to 'hvc1'
Here is a file you can try https://www.dropbox.com/s/avvvz47qtrlr1z4/The_World_in_HDR_in_4K_HDR10.mp4?dl=0
No, I'm fine with it. I did not read through the several replies. I was just making a post.
I'm actually not concerned in the least that QT won't play it. I'll give changing the type a shot for S&G's though. Appreciate it.
I've used Handbrake and well, I'm not totally satisfied with it either. I don't use it to encode movies for example. Those things you say apply. I have used hevc compression with certain HDTV recordings where it is not critical for me to retain maximum quality and my priority was to save space.
@SoyCapitanSoyCapitan - generally, I didn't take those tests as a video professional, rather a hobbyist/enthusiast. I would not expect that a pro would use an older machine to edit 4k hevc files under any circumstances! As a prosumer - if you dig that term - I'm nowhere near producing 10Mbps files for my 1080p personal archives. I mean, iTunes 1080p H264 movie files are 5-6Mbps, right? Those HDTV recordings I mention (produced by EyeTV) have a 6-9Mbps bitrate.
From the iPhone SE camera:
1080p 30fps H264 files are ~15Mpbs
4K 30fps H264 files are ~43Mpbs (oops!)
Good thing I also keep the original files for those.
I know but from a consumer viewpoint the scrubbing and loading is important too. Let's just agree that software acceleration of latest standards is never a good idea.
The videos we used might not even be a good example for quality. At those same 10Mbps we see many h.264 videos that look a lot better, such as iTunes movies.
I suppose the best way to describe HEVC(at least at this point in time) is a size-first codec(quality second), and is best suited for bitrate-starved situations. MB for MB, h264 retains more detail and thus delivers higher quality.... it could just be a matter of the different maturity levels of each codec.
So, from session 503 I learned that in High Sierra webkit (Safari) will play HEVC videos
- on mac laptops only if hardware decode is available (SkyLake and KabyLake)
- on any desktop mac because on desktops battery/heat aren't an issue
So, now that a big player like Apple has taken a big stance on HEVC and we have it in Safari...wouldn't it be cool if Youtube started serving h.265 4K videos to Safari@HighSierra?
On the other hand...would it be so hard for Apple to support VP9 in Safari? I mean, they're supporting FLAC in iOS so anything is possible...
- on mac laptops only if hardware decode is available (SkyLake and KabyLake)
- on any desktop mac because on desktops battery/heat aren't an issue
So, now that a big player like Apple has taken a big stance on HEVC and we have it in Safari...wouldn't it be cool if Youtube started serving h.265 4K videos to Safari@HighSierra?
On the other hand...would it be so hard for Apple to support VP9 in Safari? I mean, they're supporting FLAC in iOS so anything is possible...
VLC can play H265 long time ago.
Since my TV support H265 natively. Therefore, I always encode my 4K movie to H265 format.
Before I know IINA exist, I always use VLC for test play. It's actually OK. Play back can be smooth. It just depends on how you encode the video.
I tried many many method. And eventually, only 2 method works well.
1) DivX convertor, it encode very fast, and the play back always smooth. But it only has very limited option, and fixed at 4K 30FPS regardless the source FPS. Therefore, it's not good for movie due to FPS conversion required.
2) Adobe ME. It's the perfect solution for me at this moment. It encode H265 4K movie very well, anything above 8M bit rate looks almost identical. And I usually make it target 10M, and max at 12M (VBR, 1 pass, good quality). This equivalent to target 20M and max 24M H264 4K movie. In my test, it's a very good balance between bitrate, quality, and encoding time. As I said anything above 8M look almost identical. I give it a bit more buffer, so target at 10M.
This 2 encoder produce very good quality H265 4K video that can play back smoothly on my cMP (config as per my signature). And from the screenshot, you can see that my CPU actually not working that hard.
The screen shot may not look that good, because I compress the jpeg file a lot before I upload to here. But the image actually looks crispy clear on my 84" TV.
It's all about how you encode it, and what's the bit rate. For me, H265 is to save bitrate. Therefore, I aim at (relatively) low bitrate but good picture, rather than very high bitrate (e.g. 100M) but more or less the same picture (view at normal distance). If you encode a 2 pass VBR 100M 10bit 4K H265 video (best setting). I don't think any Mac can play it back smoothly only by software decode.
Since my TV support H265 natively. Therefore, I always encode my 4K movie to H265 format.
Before I know IINA exist, I always use VLC for test play. It's actually OK. Play back can be smooth. It just depends on how you encode the video.
I tried many many method. And eventually, only 2 method works well.
1) DivX convertor, it encode very fast, and the play back always smooth. But it only has very limited option, and fixed at 4K 30FPS regardless the source FPS. Therefore, it's not good for movie due to FPS conversion required.
2) Adobe ME. It's the perfect solution for me at this moment. It encode H265 4K movie very well, anything above 8M bit rate looks almost identical. And I usually make it target 10M, and max at 12M (VBR, 1 pass, good quality). This equivalent to target 20M and max 24M H264 4K movie. In my test, it's a very good balance between bitrate, quality, and encoding time. As I said anything above 8M look almost identical. I give it a bit more buffer, so target at 10M.
This 2 encoder produce very good quality H265 4K video that can play back smoothly on my cMP (config as per my signature). And from the screenshot, you can see that my CPU actually not working that hard.
The screen shot may not look that good, because I compress the jpeg file a lot before I upload to here. But the image actually looks crispy clear on my 84" TV.
It's all about how you encode it, and what's the bit rate. For me, H265 is to save bitrate. Therefore, I aim at (relatively) low bitrate but good picture, rather than very high bitrate (e.g. 100M) but more or less the same picture (view at normal distance). If you encode a 2 pass VBR 100M 10bit 4K H265 video (best setting). I don't think any Mac can play it back smoothly only by software decode.
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I would expect hevc to (eventually) deliver higher quality than h264 at same bitrate (MB for MB as you say) At low bitrates it surely looks like it does. Maybe (free) software encoders are not optimised yet, or without hardware encoders too much power is needed to produce decent results.
HEVC do the compression different from H.264. There are also lots of options for an encoder. Slow encoding increases quality or decreases bitrate. Also the quality of encoder varies.
What this implies is that you need for comparing in a commercial or professional setting, also use files encoded from a fully developed professional software. Many of the test files around are encoded with early version of the open source x265 encoder, or the fast nvidia hw encoder. X265 have increased much in quality vs bitrate the last year alone.
It is still important to know that the artifacts from hevc are more visible in lower resolution and color space than what is the case with h.264. But increasing resolution and hevc are generally better.
Both formats are not primarily meant for editing or recording professionally, but for distribution commercially or for home use.
What this implies is that you need for comparing in a commercial or professional setting, also use files encoded from a fully developed professional software. Many of the test files around are encoded with early version of the open source x265 encoder, or the fast nvidia hw encoder. X265 have increased much in quality vs bitrate the last year alone.
It is still important to know that the artifacts from hevc are more visible in lower resolution and color space than what is the case with h.264. But increasing resolution and hevc are generally better.
Both formats are not primarily meant for editing or recording professionally, but for distribution commercially or for home use.
It just like the period of introduced H.264, decoder and encoder will affect the quality so much.
Also the H.265 standard revised every year,the latest is 12/2016
Such as the first few version of Intel hardware decoder with bad quality compare as software decoder and now the Intel's H.264 decoder much better that before.
The free encoder/decoder may not optimized but the commercial or display card embedded encoder/decoder also is not optimized.
However, H.265 is not big change as like H.264 to MPEG2, the framework is actually some as H.264,
but more complicative, for example, the marcoblock on H.264 is 16x16 fixed, and H.265 can select from 8x8 to 64to64,
and can increase inside the picture, such as a woman face use 36x36, background blue sky use 16x16,
however, it may introduced other problem, for example in above case people will see the detail of face is good but the surround is poor and this not natural.
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I'm no expert but the changes you're looking for probably happened inside high level frameworks like VideoToolbox, AV Foundation, AVKit and others...not sure if there's a "quicktime component" somewhere to be found...for apps leveraging those frameworks, the addition of h.265 would be mostly transparent (as stated in WWDC2017 session 503)...by the way session 511 will start in 1 hour with even more info, slides and video will be available afterwards here:
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2017/511/
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Too bad, I thought an additional codec for quicktime, which could be transferred to other OS versions, too.
Thanks for your info
The x264 encoder is very mature with an amazing number of optimizations... it surpassed the quality of Apple's built-in encoder a long time ago. I don't believe the x264 people are working on the x265 encoder, but regardless, it's still early days for x265 (and likely for Apple's encoder as well), so the efficiency/quality difference of HEVC vs x264-encoded h.264 isn't as significant as it will be a few years from now. The point of HEVC in 10.13/iOS 11 is to have that decoding support ready to go when the time comes.
Even after High Sierra comes out, if you're encoding video for personal use, I'd still recommend x264: it's still quite efficient, and h264 hardware playback is essentially ubiquitous for devices and media players you can buy off the shelf today.
Even after High Sierra comes out, if you're encoding video for personal use, I'd still recommend x264: it's still quite efficient, and h264 hardware playback is essentially ubiquitous for devices and media players you can buy off the shelf today.
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For everyone struggling to create playable HEVC/ h.265 videos to use on Mac, I made this script:
https://gist.github.com/lukf/9f5721ee5dc29b2221c7338a0a5d6d33
Just transcode your videos to h265 .mp4 using HandBrake or https://cloudconvert.com, put them in a folder and run the script on that folder. The resulting files will play in QuickLook, QuickTime, Safari, etc.
https://gist.github.com/lukf/9f5721ee5dc29b2221c7338a0a5d6d33
Just transcode your videos to h265 .mp4 using HandBrake or https://cloudconvert.com, put them in a folder and run the script on that folder. The resulting files will play in QuickLook, QuickTime, Safari, etc.
Latest HandBrake nightly build already uses "hvc1", so you don't need to remix.
Can you point me to a guide to get MP4Box easily installed on High Sierra? I'm struggling a bit to find out how to do it.
Thanks!