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So?

If you’re happy with them that’s great for you. The dells I have are a metal base/riser/chassis and plastic body. They'd be nicer with a more solid body made of aluminium/similar.

You seemed to imply LG had issues with their displays when they're the very ones supplying this 6k panel that seems to be the gold standard. I have a feeling their 5k panels are just fine (in fact, you could say they're ultra-f....never mind). I have an LG 4K TV, and have nothing but good things to say about it.

As for plastic displays, I think most people are happy with them. Nothing wrong with wanting something "better" of course, but - again, if the demand were truly there, then it surely would be filled by either Apple or another manufacturer.
 
Funny how all that extra heat - which hasn't been an issue for the last 15 years - suddenly becomes an issue even though Apple Silicon consumes 2-3 times less power than the Intel chips it is replacing.

If the fan is roaring in your Mac Mini it is because the Intel i7 space-heater running it is putting out the thick end of 100W. The small fraction of that being wasted by the power supply is a drop in the ocean.
I own 2 Mac minis (2010 and 2011), and both of them run hotter than I would like them to. Not sure if they're thermal throttling, but they probably are.

This new Mac mini is smaller, and we don't know what the TDP of these M2 chips will be; maybe (and hopefully) Apple is scaling them up. And idk what they're doing with the cooling either. I don't see how external PSU is a cost-saving measure.
 
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You seemed to imply LG had issues with their displays when they're the very ones supplying this 6k panel that seems to be the gold standard.
The 5k is the same as the iMac 27” afaik, but their 4K 24” is not used by Apple internally for anything - and I’ve heard it’s not great (relative to eg the dell 24” 4ks) because of less obvious things like pwm.


Nothing wrong with wanting something "better" of course, but - again, if the demand were truly there, then it surely would be filled by either Apple or another manufacturer.

Mac users are a niche.
Mac users who need an external display are a further niche.
Mac users need an external display and are willing to pay for retina quality but don’t need a $5k monitor are a further niche.

the only reason lg makes the ultrafines as they do, is for Apple.

there is definitely demand within the echo chamber that is macrumors though (hence the original comment that sparked this discussion)
 
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It shouldn't be chicken-and-egg since PCs can support both while consumers buying new things go for -C instead. Of course that only happens if -C is actually more convenient, which currently it's not.
By supporting both they’re still supporting type a, so accessories will still be type a.
Chicken. Egg.

omelette.
 
How? There weren't PS/2 hubs.
Since it came with only 2 USB ports (you needed one for the keyboard), there were USB hubs, and many manufacturers made them in Bondi blue... and then in the colors of the rainbow of iMacs when they came out. The ports have changed, but the complaints haven’t in over 20 years. Buying a USB hub isn’t the end of the world.
 
Since it came with only 2 USB ports (you needed one for the keyboard), there were USB hubs, and many manufacturers made them in Bondi blue... and then in the colors of the rainbow of iMacs when they came out. The ports have changed, but the complaints haven’t in over 20 years. Buying a USB hub isn’t the end of the world.
The keyboard had a built in hub (and from memory the puck mouse cord wasn’t really long enough to use unless it was plugged into the kb)

but yeah, whiners gonna whine
 
The keyboard had a built in hub (and from memory the puck mouse cord wasn’t really long enough to use unless it was plugged into the kb)

but yeah, whiners gonna whine
Yep, got a tangerine keyboard on my desk right now (not the puck mouse though). Even with the mouse plugged in, you basically still got that one port back... so you still had 2 usable ones. I feel like stuff plugged into the keyboard ran even slower than usual USB 1 devices that were plugged in directly though... or maybe my memory is wrong on that. Using it with a newer computer, the hub is USB 1, and only really suitable for a mouse, not anything else due to the extreme slowness.
 
Yep, got a tangerine keyboard on my desk right now (not the puck mouse though). Even with the mouse plugged in, you basically still got that one port back... so you still had 2 usable ones. I feel like stuff plugged into the keyboard ran even slower than usual USB 1 devices that were plugged in directly though... or maybe my memory is wrong on that. Using it with a newer computer, the hub is USB 1, and only really suitable for a mouse, not anything else due to the extreme slowness.
Possibly the way hubs worked in 1.1.

I wonder how many people would be satisfied with a USB-c keyboard that has a 3.x hub with type-a ports in the back. The common reason is always “flash drives” (which I don’t really get given how common dual a/c drives are but whatever).

would also work for those who are allergic to Bluetooth!
 
This new Mac mini is smaller
Says the sketchy rumour. This discussion is pretty much all about whether making it smaller makes any sense.

and we don't know what the TDP of these M2 chips will be
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the M2/M1x/whatever will likely have a lower TDP than the 60W Intel space heaters that it is replacing in the higher-end Mini (given that the ~15W TDP M1 already gives them a run for their money performance-wise).

Do I know that as a fact? No. Will everybody + dog be surprised and disappointed if M2/M1x/Whatever turns out not to be significantly lower power consumption than Intel Core i? Absolutely.

I own 2 Mac minis (2010 and 2011)
...one of which is half full of optical drive, both are 1/4 full of hot spinning rust hard drive - or, at least, wasted space where those things should have gone. The 2018 Mini design already put some of that space towards improved cooling so it could run Intel desktop-class chips. Best guess is that the M2/M1x/Whatever will be the same chips destined for the MacBook Pros - so back to mobile-level power consumption, but with space for desktop-class heating.
 
I wonder how many people would be satisfied with a USB-c keyboard that has a 3.x hub with type-a ports in the back.
Still using the Aluminium wired keyboard w/number pad - and I've got a spare in the cupboard. Plus - since using a Tragic Mouse for more than 2 minutes makes me want to chew my own hand off - the USB-A ports are particularly useful for holding the Logitech mouse dongle.

Reality is, though - this is a desktop not a laptop and on the desk I can just about tolerate USB-A-to-C dongles when they just sit in the back of the computer where they won't get left behind, put in the wrong bag, lost on trains, lent to people in meetings & not returned etc.

On the desk I can put up with just having more top-level USB 3 and 2 ports, of whatever shape, and while it would be really cool to have 6-8 full fat TB3 ports, with the amount of resources needed to implement each port, I'm not holding my breath. One of those is probably always going to go to an old fangled USB hub (since I have about a dozen USB2 devices) but some of them work best plugged in directly. (Even USB 2 devices can be better with 480Mbps all to themselves rather than 480Mbps shared with 3 other devices...)

Yes, I'd also quite like a USB4 hub that wasn't vapourware, didn't cost $300 and didn't have a power brick the size of Australia... but somehow $300 just to give a few USB 2 devices optimum bandwidth & latency seems to sting a bit more than $300 to run a brace of top-end TB3 NVMe SSDs and a 5k display...
 
Then you are correct and I am wrong.

I hope that brings you some satisfaction.

Thanks for looking it up, by the way.
I didn’t look it up I have the same size screen from Dell.

being right doesn’t really help much. I’d rather have a display with better PPI than win some internet points.
 
Funny how all that extra heat - which hasn't been an issue for the last 15 years - suddenly becomes an issue even though Apple Silicon consumes 2-3 times less power than the Intel chips it is replacing.

If the fan is roaring in your Mac Mini it is because the Intel i7 space-heater running it is putting out the thick end of 100W. The small fraction of that being wasted by the power supply is a drop in the ocean.

It's almost as if people are making stuff up to try and rationalise what is really a pure form-over-function (probably with a dash of cost-cutting) decision by Apple.


Even if the form-over-function was appropriate for the entry-level iMac, the worry is that it will bleed over to the higher-end machines.





The minimum power requirement for a Thunderbolt port is 15W and as far as I know, that's all the ports on any existing Mac will deliver. You can deduce from the power ratings of existing Macs that they don't provide 100W per port - e.g. the Intel Mac Mini (4 x TB3) is rated at 150W max (and the Intel i7 CPU was 60W average), the new 24" iMac (2xTB3, 2 x USB 3) at 143W. Doesn't add up - and remember the iMac has a fairly power-hungry display.

Consequently, the vast majority of USB-C/TB3 peripherals either run off 15W (or less if they are just warmed-over USB A devices) or require their own power bricks. The higher capacities are really only for powering/charging laptops.

So although Apple could decide to add TB charging capacity to new machines, they haven't done it to date, even with the new iMac, and while it would be cool to be able to power/charge your MacBook from your Mac Mini, it doesn't seem like a high priority.


What on earth for?

The internal power supply in the existing Intel and M1 Minis is already slightly more powerful than the iMac (150W vs 143W) - justified in the Intel version where the processor TDP (i.e. average) was 60W and probably only kept in the M1 version because Apple didn't bother to re-design the power supply for what is probably only a transitional machine.

Remember the iMac power brick has a large, bright display to drive, too.

If you really want to remove the PSU from the Mini, the next most sensible thing to do would be to make it TB3 powered so it could run off a TB display or a powered TB3/4 dock with your preferred selection of ports.


History lesson: USB on the iMac replaced a bunch of Apple proprietary ports like ADB and LocalTalk and the technically standard RS423 serial that was just different enough from the widely used RS232 to be a headache. It also replaced lower-end applications of SCSI (huge cables and connectors, termination issues, device-ID DIP switches, "enterprise"-level prices...) which was limiting the choice of affordable scanners, zip drives etc. to what were becoming effectively Mac-only products.

USB ports had already started appearing on PCs - where RS232 and Centronics were already past their sell-by date - MS just needed a nudge to fix the Windows drivers. A year or two after the iMac came out, there was a good choice of USB printers, scanners, mice, keyboards, hubs, modems, external drives etc. at attractive prices because they were no longer Mac-only. It was a major step forward. Which is probably why everybody stopped whining about it within a year or so.

(Oh, plus, at around the same time as the hermetically-sealed iMac, Apple released a G3 tower which set new standards of tool-free access to the innards, with space for user-replaceable drives and expansion cards... Jobs' Apple wasn't obsessed with sealed boxes: they just understood the difference between consumer "appliances" and professional tools, and designed each accordingly...)


Problem is, although the downstream Usb4 ports don't need to support 100W per port, they do need to support 7.5W per port (rising to 15W for TB4 branding) while being connected to a single 7.5W or 15W upstream port (which is all the vast majority of hosts support). So there's a niche for a totally bus-powered hub (or one with a smaller ~30W brick) - but for laptop users it probably makes more sense to use one with a beefy power brick that can also replace your laptop's charger.


...sure, but you've countered your own argument: you can already put a 27" iMac Pro in a flight case and wheel it round. The new 24" even more so - but it's still going to be a pain to carry around (given that you can now get almost the same performance out of an Apple Silicon laptop that fits in a manilla envelope) and making the body ~5mm thicker isn't going to be the straw that breaks that camel's back. Plus, d'oh! weight-wise you're still going to have to carry around the power supply and any other gubbins that Apple have made external to save weight.


...and needing a second rack for the power supplies (to which all the ethernet cables would be routed) would make it harder. Yes, if you are running several racks full of Macs then the power supply failure rate might be significant - but so will SSD and other failures so - given that Minis are relatively cheap - it will probably be more efficient to swap out the whole unit.

I suppose you could make a custom power/network distribution unit - if Apple will license the new proprietary connectors - but if you're going to go that far, why not crack open the Minis and extract the logic boards so you can build a dozen of them into a 3U rack case?

Of course, what would be far, far, far better would be for Apple to release a proper rackmount server - no, not a Mac Pro kludged into a massive rack case, but a proper rack-format 1-2U server (or blade system) with lights-out management, redundant power-supplies etc. I think the XServe died after the Intel switch because it offered too few advantages over generic PC kit to be worthwhile - with Apple Silicon, Apple have a unique offering again (and, frankly, sticking an Apple logic board in a generic server enclosure designed to power and cool much hotter processors ain't exactly the Manhattan project R&D wise...)
Nothing is wrong with form of function when the form becomes sleeker with kk real downside. It’s not that hard to put a power brick under your desk
 
how is a thiner desktop computer display "way better"? do you have so little space that you have to push your iMac up against a wall? do you walk around the back of your desk and get satisfaction from admiring the super thin display? I can't imagine a single use case that makes a desktop iMac display "way better" by being a few mm thinner. OTOH, a big white brick on the floor kinda defeats the purpose of an "all-in-one" computer, since, well, it's not.
It looks better. Having a power brick is easy to hide and not a big deal. It would be a worse design to make it fatter just for that.
 
Since it came with only 2 USB ports (you needed one for the keyboard), there were USB hubs, and many manufacturers made them in Bondi blue... and then in the colors of the rainbow of iMacs when they came out. The ports have changed, but the complaints haven’t in over 20 years. Buying a USB hub isn’t the end of the world.
The keyboard it came with had 2 more USB ports on it, and you could buy USB hubs cheaply. Wasn't a problem.

When the 2016 MBP came out, I don't think there were any USB-C hubs (i.e. ones that give you more USB-C ports) available at all, which some people on StackOverflow attributed to a necessary chip not existing yet. It's gotten better over the years but still costs like $50 for a 4-port hub, and there are limitations. IIRC a year ago it was at least double the price.
 
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The keyboard it came with had 2 more USB ports on it, and you could buy USB hubs cheaply. Wasn't a problem.

When the 2016 MBP came out, I don't think there were any USB-C hubs (i.e. ones that give you more USB-C ports) available at all, which some people on StackOverflow attributed to a necessary chip not existing yet. It's gotten better over the years but still costs like $50 for a 4-port hub, and there are limitations. IIRC a year ago it was at least double the price.
Are we talking about the current Macs or 5-year-old Macs? And you can currently get a 4-port Anker USB-C-to-A hub for $20.

USB hubs were uncommon in 1998 and not that cheap either. If you don’t believe me, dig out an old MacAddict magazine from 1998 and see the 4-port USB hubs listed for $80 and the 7-port listed for $130…

1622075740282.png
 
Are we talking about the current Macs or 5-year-old Macs? And you can currently get a 4-port Anker USB-C-to-A hub for $20.

USB hubs were uncommon in 1998 and not that cheap either. If you don’t believe me, dig out an old MacAddict magazine from 1998 and see the 4-port USB hubs listed for $80 and the 7-port listed for $130…

View attachment 1782376
C-A hubs are easy. C-C is hard, even today. Back in the late 90s, everything computer-related was expensive, I mean look at the printer.
 
I've never had a PSU failure in any Mac I've ever owned internal or external. Even with the really dodgy power where I'm at. They are pretty darn reliable.

There's also never been any issue cross territories either as Apple PSU's are Auto-voltage (bricks and internal). Just the removable plug changed.

However. Using Bricks may make sense for even lower thermals (less fan noise) and RF reduction which may help with audio noise and wireless interference.

Replacement internal PSU in the last couple gens of Mini (even off-brand/re-manufactured ones) are more expensive than the external ones anyhow. And a lot more labour than plugging in a replacement via MagSafe.

I'm a fan on internal PSU's to a point. At the end of the day though Apple do not intend you (or even their staff at this point) to service any of their Mac's so wishing for an easily replaceable internal PSU (or anything else) is really clutching at straws. If it dies for any reason, you can order a new one.
Move to Florida and then get back to me. My sister lost 1/2 her stuff one day to a massive lightning strike that didn’t seem to care about some low quality surge suppressors.

The items with external power bricks were much cheaper to fix.
 
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