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Home Folders on MacOS Server 5.11.1

Jedi.Master.Dre

Jedi.Master.Dre

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 18, 2010
24
1
I have been running a Mac lab at the school I teach at, and have been using MacOS Server 5.7.1 to create student accounts and store all of my students files on a 2012 Mac Pro running High Sierra with numerous 2011 27" iMacs with El Capitan and High Sierra as client computers. That Mac Pro has 12TB worth of HDDs in it.

I recently purchased four 27" 2019 and ten 27" 2020 iMacs. The new client iMacs mostly have 256GB SSDs. These new iMacs mostly have Big Sur on them and were shipped with Big Sur. As a result I am running MacOS Server 5.11.1 now on one of the iMacs that has an 8TB SSD. My goal is to have my students be able have student accounts on MacOS Server and have their Home Folders reside on the "Server" iMac, like they used to on MacOS Server 5.7.1.

I have spent a ridiculous amount of time trying to figure out ways get this to work, none have worked.

I would also like to be able to still use the 2011 iMacs as clients if possible.

I have been able to create student accounts and access Home Folders by logging into the server but the Menu Bar and My Documents are currently being stored on the client iMac that the user logs in to. This is frustrating as I have several different classes and numerous students and I would like them to be able to access their files and settings from any of the client iMacs at the stations in my lab.

I have contacted Apple Support twice for extended conversations to no avail.

I realize that Apple has deprecated services on MacOS Server. That being said, all I really need is the ability to create user accounts and have the home folders and settings reside on the 8TB "Server" iMac. It seems ridiculous that the updated "Server" app doesn't actually operate much like a server anymore.

I am very frustrated to say the least. I hope I am missing something here.

The new iMac with the 8TB SSD was obviously quite expensive and purchased to be the main storage for my lab so I would really like to be able to use it for that purpose. 14 new iMacs was a big investment for my department.

I was thinking of whether or not I could use BootCamp to run High Sierra on the 2020 iMac on a second volume, that doesn't seem possible but might seemingly do the trick if it was.

I was also wondering if a virtual machine, such as VMWare Fusion or Parallels would allow me to run High Sierra and MacOS Server 5.7.1 on the 8TB 2020 iMac (that was shipped with Big Sur).

Are there any settings or means to accomplish this in MacOS Server 5.11.1?

If this can't be achieved with MacOS Server 5.11.1, I would greatly appreciate suggestions on any third party software that may be able to achieve this.

Any solutions, suggestions or help would be much appreciated.
 
Network home folders like your describe are pretty much dead. Current versions of macOS no longer support this in any meaningful way. You may be able to get it to work sometimes, but this is an unsupported configuration.

What you CAN do is create home folders on that iMac / server + instruct students to save all their work to the server. I would advise a generic local "student" account on each iMac, individual accounts for each student on the server. Student sits down at client iMac logged in as generic student + connects to server using their individual login + can access their files on the server. At the end of class, eject the network drive to prevent unauthorized access to their stuff.

Is it as clean and nice? No. But it'll work!
 
What version of Microsoft Server are you running? You could could run Windows 10 an an external and run Microsoft Server 2010 or better the would run good in BootCamp on Windows 10 from Server 2010 or better both Macs and major Linux machines could be managed in Server natively!

So don't use modern Apple Server because it is greatly gimped in modern age! Besides you could also put in smart NAS that can be bound to Active Directory!
 
satcomer said:
What version of Microsoft Server are you running? You could could run Windows 10 an an external and run Microsoft Server 2010 or better the would run good in BootCamp on Windows 10 from Server 2010 or better both Macs and major Linux machines could be managed in Server natively!

So don't use modern Apple Server because it is greatly gimped in modern age! Besides you could also put in smart NAS that can be bound to Active Directory!
Click to expand...
I am not running Microsoft Server. I am running MacOS 11.6 Big Sur and MacOS Server 5.11.1. No PC gear at all.
 
DJLC said:
Network home folders like your describe are pretty much dead. Current versions of macOS no longer support this in any meaningful way. You may be able to get it to work sometimes, but this is an unsupported configuration.

What you CAN do is create home folders on that iMac / server + instruct students to save all their work to the server. I would advise a generic local "student" account on each iMac, individual accounts for each student on the server. Student sits down at client iMac logged in as generic student + connects to server using their individual login + can access their files on the server. At the end of class, eject the network drive to prevent unauthorized access to their stuff.

Is it as clean and nice? No. But it'll work!
Click to expand...
I have figured out how to get users to be able to login through a client using their server login and password. Their home folders and setting such as menu bar reside locally on the client iMac though which isn’t desirable. Through Finder/Locations/Server/Users/ users can access their home folder that resides in the iMac running server.

I was hoping the home folders and/or setting could be accessed from different client iMacs, and without storing anything on the client iMacs.
 
It appears Bootcamp can’t install an old MacOS, i would love to be incorrect.

Could a 2020 iMac running VMWare run High Sierra snd then subsequently run Server 5.7.1?
 
Can VMWare Fusion run High Sierra on a 2020 Big Sur iMac? That might solve this problem really quick. How about Parallels?
 
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DJLC said:
Network home folders like your describe are pretty much dead. Current versions of macOS no longer support this in any meaningful way. You may be able to get it to work sometimes, but this is an unsupported configuration.

What you CAN do is create home folders on that iMac / server + instruct students to save all their work to the server. I would advise a generic local "student" account on each iMac, individual accounts for each student on the server. Student sits down at client iMac logged in as generic student + connects to server using their individual login + can access their files on the server. At the end of class, eject the network drive to prevent unauthorized access to their stuff.

Is it as clean and nice? No. But it'll work!
Click to expand...
How would one be able to get the home folders to work at all on client iMacs?

How does one create home folders on that iMac / server that instruct students to save all their work to the server?
 
Jedi.Master.Dre said:
How would one be able to get the home folders to work at all on client iMacs?

How does one create home folders on that iMac / server that instruct students to save all their work to the server?
Click to expand...

I believe at this point, you would need to create accounts through System Preferences on the Server iMac for each student. That will generate a home folder on that iMac for them. From a client iMac, they would need to use the Finder's Go menu, select Network, find the Server iMac in the list, connect with their individual account that was created on the Server iMac, and then their home folder from the Server iMac would be mounted on the local iMac. If you have a network that's fast enough to handle it, they could work directly out of their mounted network folder — create and save all files there rather than on the local iMac. File sharing has been removed entirely from Server.app, and Open Directory for user accounts is on its way out the door too — that was $20 wasted on the Server app, unfortunately.

This said, you're likely to saturate any 1Gbps network connection doing this. Depending on the number of students, you may also saturate the network as a whole. The old network home folders involved local caching; this method does not, and that caching / "Mobile Home Sync" functionality has been deprecated and stripped out of macOS. As @satcomer mentioned, macOS Server is next to useless these days. You might be better off selling that server iMac and replacing it with a NAS and 10Gbps network switch or even just a fleet of enough USB SSDs for each student. Unfortunately, Apple's insistence on deprecating these features means increased hardware costs for schools and other organizations that are used to Macs with reliable network-based home folders — that's just not a workable solution anymore, despite its obvious and significant benefits in a use case like yours.

EDIT: A third option — use Boot Camp to install Windows Server on the Server iMac. Set up Active Directory with an account for each student + define a path to their network home. Bind each client iMac to your new Active Directory domain. Students will log in to any iMac with their Active Directory credentials. Upon login, their network home folder will be mounted automatically and added to the Dock next to the trash can. I think macOS still behaves that way when bound to AD, anyway — been a couple years since I was in an IT administration role at a school. What I said above about caching and network saturation will still apply, however.
 
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Sorry to say...Mac Server has been dead for a while. I really wish Apple would have rebranded it. It still does things...but none of the things that most folks expect "server" to be.

Having run remote homes, I would never recommend it. It was OK when the load was light, but it stumbled and buckled with large data sets. Honestly...glad it is gone.
 
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As for recommendations...

I would look at file sync platforms that can be hosted on Macs:

Owncloud
Nextcloud
Pcloud
Seafile
Syncthing
Resilio
SparkleShare

Or...

Ditch the Mac as a server and consider a NAS that is Mac-friendly like Synology. Synology has Drive built-in, which is a pretty solid file sync platform, as well as a directory server option. If so, you could manage all student accounts on the Synology directory, and users simply log into to automatically create a local account with their network credentials...and then sync a specific folder (documents, desktop, etc.).

One might be able to authenticate Macs with the free NoMAD Login client to a Synology directory, to create and manage domain accounts. I can't say, have never tried it.

NoMAD/NoMAD Login works really well in an AD environment, and you can configure it to mount network shares, and with web links and other goodies.
 
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hobowankenobi said:
As for recommendations...

I would look at file sync platforms that can be hosted on Macs:

Owncloud
Nextcloud
Pcloud
Seafile
Syncthing
Resilio
SparkleShare

Or...

Ditch the Mac as a server and consider a NAS that is Mac-friendly like Synology. Synology has Drive built-in, which is a pretty solid file sync platform, as well as a directory server option. If so, you could manage all student accounts on the Synology directory, and users simply log into to automatically create a local account with their network credentials...and then sync a specific folder (documents, desktop, etc.).

One might be able to authenticate Macs with the free NoMAD Login client to a Synology directory, to create and manage domain accounts. I can't say, have never tried it.

NoMAD/NoMAD Login works really well in an AD environment, and you can configure it to mount network shares, and with web links and other goodies.
Click to expand...
This right here.
 
I found this video.

I got macOS Server 5.11.1 connecting to 2011 iMacs running El Capitan, with home folders and menu bars. I get an error when connecting Catalina, Big Sur and/or Monterey T1 2019 or T2 2020 27" clients though once changing the "advanced options" in the "Users". I get an error "You are unable to login to this user account 'user' at this time". Anyone have any ideas on how I can rectify this?

I have spent hundreds of hours on this. This video is the first time I have been able to successfully get Home Folders working on older clients with Server 5.11.1. If I can get the users to be able to login to the new client iMacs that would be amazing.

I can bind to the server and access folders through the finder on "users" that I have left at the default settings.

Note: I do not understand what to do to get the third party DNS server working or if that is even necessary. I feel that might be the roadblock but I will need some advice and help here.

Help.
 
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Good video. Looks right, though I would caution that odds are...it still won't scale, and without caching (as mentioned above)...it will perform worse than older versions.

I expect that is also the answer to the question in the video: "why did Apple kill it?" Try having 50, or 200, or 2000 Macs log in at once, say at a school at the beginning of class. Or have dozens of users trying to read/write large files at the same time.

But for a low number of local Macs, could still be useful.

Sorry, no testing or need here, so no help on newer OS questions. Could be some useful clues in the Directory Utility.

Oh, and as for the DNS: I would expect it is not necessary at all. To verify, simply substitute the IP for the DNS server name in all the steps. It used to work fine this way, and honestly, it is one less issue: If DNS fails, or hiccups...one has to troubleshoot that, just so users can log in. Another failure/pain point over just a static IP for internal (LAN) connections.
 
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hobowankenobi said:
Good video. Looks right, though I would caution that odds are...it still won't scale, and without caching (as mentioned above)...it will perform worse than older versions.

I expect that is also the answer to the question in the video: "why did Apple kill it?" Try having 50, or 200, or 2000 Macs log in at once, say at a school at the beginning of class. Or have dozens of users trying to read/write large files at the same time.

But for a low number of local Macs, could still be useful.

Sorry, no testing or need here, so no help on newer OS questions. Could be some useful clues in the Directory Utility.

Oh, and as for the DNS: I would expect it is not necessary at all. To verify, simply substitute the IP for the DNS server name in all the steps. It used to work fine this way, and honestly, it is one less issue: If DNS fails, or hiccups...one has to troubleshoot that, just so users can log in. Another failure/pain point over just a static IP for internal (LAN) connections.
Click to expand...
I would have 20 iMacs logging in on average and it would be immensely useful. 60-100 active users at any given period.

I have successfully joined 2011 iMacs with Home Folders. I get an error when the new T series iMacs are attempting to login. The home folders exist on the server and the user shows as connected, but the login hangs indefinitely. So close. I am baffled.

Ugh.
 
Good to hear...I guess. The last time I supported sync'd home folders on Macs was back about 10.10 or so.

Even with less than 30 Macs, it got to be slow over time as data sets grew...for the log-in and log-out syncing.

The solution for this org was to have local accounts created on-demand with SSO credentials via AD using NoMAD Login, and then having a separate sync tool for users that needed data synchronized to/from their local user account and a server. More robust, happier users, less issues all around.
 
What you could do is create a folder share that maps upon login to the Macs using the File Sharing role in System Preferences. Roaming home folders is not advised due to the increased login times that occur as mentioned by @hobowankenobi. Even in Active Directory Windows environments, the symptoms are very similar depending on the amount of data and policy configurations.

In the future, many organizations are doing seamless sign on with OneDrive if they have 365. Does your organization have that at their disposal? Granted, the majority of times I have seen it implemented were using Group Policy in a Windows environment, I am sure that there can be similar functionality within Profile Manager or another MDM.
 
Altemose said:
What you could do is create a folder share that maps upon login to the Macs using the File Sharing role in System Preferences. Roaming home folders is not advised due to the increased login times that occur as mentioned by @hobowankenobi. Even in Active Directory Windows environments, the symptoms are very similar depending on the amount of data and policy configurations.

In the future, many organizations are doing seamless sign on with OneDrive if they have 365. Does your organization have that at their disposal? Granted, the majority of times I have seen it implemented were using Group Policy in a Windows environment, I am sure that there can be similar functionality within Profile Manager or another MDM.
Click to expand...
We use OneDrive. How do I utilize that?
 
Jedi.Master.Dre said:
We use OneDrive. How do I utilize that?
Click to expand...
You can use the PLIST settings to generate a configuration profile. Alternatively, I believe Profile Creator (available on the JAMF store for free) has the options already setup. Once you have a profile, it can be either manually installed or pushed with Profile Manager/MDM. Let me know if it gives you any trouble and I can check it out.

This is one of the things that Windows excels at with Group Policy. Hopefully, we can achieve the same experience on macOS.
 
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This might be getting way off topic...but installing the OneDrive client is a long, LONG way off from authenticating at login. Does OneDrive support user account login management? I thought it only supported data syncing from the desktop client.

Possible Login/account management options I am aware of:

Local Options:

Local accounts (default Mac setup)
LAN Directory Server: Open Directory (MacOS Server, or others...more info)
LAN Directory Server: MS Active Directory
LAN Directory Server: Synology AD
LAN Directory Server: Samba AD

Cloud/WAN Options:

Okta
JumpCloud
OneLogin
MS Azure (AD in the cloud...coming someday.)
Google

I'm sure there are more. Most above cost...either a moderate or very high price.

OpenSource LDAP like in (MacOS Server can be free or very low cost), but less than fun/easy to setup, and perhaps less than robust to run. There is a user here that claims to have gotten Google accounts working, which would slick, free, cloud-based authentication, but I can't vouch for it myself.

  • All the above (plus other similar platforms) allow the management of user credentials.
  • None of the above (that I am aware of) support/are recommended for Roaming Home Directories...at least at any moderate scale.
 
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