HomeKit Essentials Worth Checking Out

[Shasterball]

HomeKit is something I was super excited about when it first came out. Then my interest fizzled. I got Schlage HomeKit locks and then software updates bricked the connection. Nothing seems to work 100%. No one I know really uses it. Just never took off around here which is, ironically, Cupertino.

 

[Alan Wynn]

We purchased a home last Fall that was equipped with Nest thermostats and ~12 Nest smoke detectors. Since I already had some Homekit items such as HomePods and Hue Lights, VOVOLinc outlets, I purchased the starling hub which allows Nest items to be discoverable in Homekit. https://www.starlinghome.io. This setup works great for us. I have liked the Nest items, though the Ecobee thermostat display in the posted video looks cool too.

Does the StarlingHome do local control of the Nest gear, or is it dependent on the Nest Cloud? One of the nice things about the EcoBe, iDevices and Lyric thermostats is that they are all local, so one does not need the cloud to be working to be able to control them. For smoke detectors, the First Alert Safe and Sound are pretty cool. They are Airplay 2 speakers as well as smoke detectors.

The house came with a Ring doorbell that I cannot get to work with HomeKit.

As long as you do not mind having your video available to the police whenever they want it, you should be able to get the Ring into HomeKit with either HomeAssistant or HomeBridge. I personally would consider switching it for a Logitech or NetAtmo HomeKit doorbell that is directly HomeKit and supports HomeKit secure video.

I installed August deadbolt locks on all the doors. I got the 3rd Gen as they were less expensive than the 4th Gen and are getting cheaper still on Amazon. They were easy to install and work great with HomeKit. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0752VPHVK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think they will have better battery life then the 4th generation versions.

Not mentioned here but I have added some LaGrand https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FPB9VC4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and Meross https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08DV22BSY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 smart light switches, which have worked almost perfectly. A couple of the LaGrand switches are not discoverable once in a while but I think it's because of Eero hub and the way it handles network traffic in the MESH.

Do you have the Eero configured to use HomeKit Secure networking?

Does anyone have recommendations for floodlights that work in HomeKit and are more reliable than these Halo floodlights?

Lifx makes some great HomeKit gear, but it is not cheap. They have some very reliable, WiFi-only color changing, or white color temperature changing floods. Their Lifx+ line has a really nice feature: directly controllable IR LEDs. That means you can flood an area with IR for cameras while having the visible light off.

 

[Alan Wynn]

I’ve yet to see a “smart” product that will add anything but frustration to my life. Seems like we’re still in the “over-promise and under-deliver” phase of this technology. Don’t @ me.

Both the Lifx color or color temperature changing bulbs and the Nanoleaf essential line have been really amazing in my experience. No problems and lots of great functionality that improves my life. Adaptive lighting is really great and being able to have it automatically turn off when the last person leaves the house is very nice. Curious what frustrations you have had (if you have actually installed any of it) and what you are using or have tried.

 

[Alan Wynn]

HomeKit is something I was super excited about when it first came out. Then my interest fizzled. I got Schlage HomeKit locks and then software updates bricked the connection.

They replaced them free and the newer version is better.

Nothing seems to work 100%. No one I know really uses it. Just never took off around here which is, ironically, Cupertino.

What gear do you have? My experience was that some of the earliest stuff was problematic, but the most recent stuff is really solid. I prefer it over other options for two reasons: local control and privacy.

I do not want things that depend on someone else running a cloud infrastructure and needs my net connection to be up to work. I also do not like others having access to track me 24/7.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Thanks I’m more lookimg for Native home kit fans

The Hunter ones work well.

 

[Alan Wynn]

A fair question.

When someone says XXXX did not work, I am always curious what makes their use case different, if they did not know about an option or if they misunderstood how something works. Just had a discussion in another thread with a Garmin watch user about the differences in his use case.

I’m in the UK and so options are limited.

Ah, there is your first mistake! :-D I do not know if Resideo sells the Lyric panel in the UK even now. I know the Abode stuff is be coming more available in other places.

Abode has launched in the UK subsequently and I’d go for that if I was installing a system now.

It seems like a reasonable system. I really want something that support wired window and door sensors, or at least something with encrypted, supervised wireless sensors, so that tends to be a real alarm panel.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Ring through Shortcuts. It doesn’t show up in Home app but frankly the Ring app is way better anyway

Abode Is a nice system with of customizations and works with HomeKit. I have the system and are very happy with it.

 

[bakerzdosen]

Just another shout out for Caseta stuff. About half of my HomeKit footprint is Caseta. Not cheap but certainly rock solid.
MyQ was mentioned above and I personally have had good success with mine (opener bridge with Genie and the HomeKit bridge) for the past 2 years, but those first 1.5-2 years were pretty rocky. Others seem to still have issues with it though.
I wish I could add my Rachio here but something is really messed up with their HomeKit integration. It’s looking like I will once again have to completely reset the thing this Spring (and reprogram it from the ground up - which is a pain) to get it back into HK.

 

[TheOldChevy]

I am using HomeKit with myStrom. Easy. Convenient.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Don't believe the HomeKit hype. Too many things work badly right now.

My experience has been quite different from yours.

Ecobee, for example, is a great product, a nice thermostat -- but it is a LOUSY HomeKit product, and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. It constantly disconnects from HomeKit and it's random when it decides to reconnect, you can't do anything to force it.

I have used Ecobee 3 thermostats with HomeKit as well as an iDevices thermostat and several Lyric round ones, and have not experienced the problems you describe. What version of the Ecobee do you have? How reliable is your WiFi? I am using UniFi access points each connected via Ethernet rather than meshed together (something that often seems to cause problems).

Same with, eg, iSmartGate Garage Opener. Seems like a good idea -- but again constantly and randomly disconnects from HomeKit.

I have not used this one, but someone else on this thread said he was using it and I am curious if he has the same issues that you are having.

So, honestly, if you're not using HomeKit today, wait for a few years.

I think the advent of thread gear will be a big deal. As a low latency, dedicated mesh for IoT products that is native IPv6 without the bag of hurt that is Zigbee, it provides the reliable network these devices need.

- Most of what's being sold today is garbage.

Eve, iDevices, Koogeek, Legand, Lifx, Meross, NetAtmo. Nanoleaf, and Vocolinc all make great HomeKit gear.

I do not have any of the EufyCam gear here, but several friends really like it.

- Apple seems uninterested in changing this (eg much stricter licensing requirements)

Apple has the strictest licensing requirements in the industry. That is why there has been much less HomeKit gear. They actually require certification, something that none of the others really do.

- You simply cannot trust the reviewers. I don't know if they are just w****s who are happy to lie for money, or aretoo stupid to understand the real issues with HomeKit functionality (no-one gives a fsck about how it works in the first hour, what matters is how it works [or more frequently fails] in the months after installation).

Shane Watley has been pretty reliable, as much as anything else because he actually has his family live with his experiments. There are others as well.

 

[ececlv]

Not only can you run a bridge, but with Pi-Hole you can secure your internet as well, and run retro games via an emulator. I just got one to play around with. Will checkout Home Assistant.



I've never been a fan of automating garage doors with aa device that requires an active internet connection. I went with a bluetooth enabled one called Garagemate, and am very happy with it. While it doesn't have the geofencing capabilities of some, it is a lot more secure and doesn't randomly open the door.



How did you mount the sensor and was t the new or old one. Try as I might I couold not get one to mount, work properly and clear the track.

Regarding automating garage door openers. You can add a bit more security to “Glitches” by running an automation to periodically close the garage door. If Open, close the garage door And run that every now and then throughout the day.

 

[NightFox]

August smart locks are the best on the market. just change the interior deadbolt with the smart lock as there is no need to re-key your door. The current generation model doesn’t require the connect bridge as it’s all built into the lock which is now smaller. Works with HomeKit as well as all other smart home systems.

August is sold as the Yale Linus in Europe, if anyone's interested.

 

[Alan Wynn]

I’ve looked into the circle view doorbell, but read that it shuts down on hot days in direct sunlight. Any experience with this issue? My door has no shade in the afternoon and faces northwest, so it would be a dealbreaker for me.

Have you consider rotating your house 45 degrees or planting a giant shade tree? Seems to be hard to get manufacturers to test in some of these (seemingly obvious) conditions.

 

[CJ Dorschel]

I think they will have better battery life then the 4th generation versions.

The 4th Gen locks are great but they eat batteries every three months. The 3rd Gen with the bridge every 4-6 months depending on location. The locks I have in my garages tend to go quicker during the winter due to the cold. I thought the newer locks battery drainage was a firmware issue as I read a lot of reviews before deciding to replace a few 3rd Gen with the 4th Gen but it appears 2-3 months is the average for battery life. I reached out to August and the tech support agent confirmed it. They’re working on new firmware to try to alleviate usage and push it to 6 months which would be great, mostly working less with WiFi and more with low power frequencies such as BTLE. The biggest factor seems to be mesh systems - as it requires a 2.4 GHz band some mesh systems are constantly communicating with networked devices as the nodes are usually set to always determine the best signal which can drain devices that use batteries. I have linksys WiFi 6 MX53* systems and turned off the option of always checking device connectivity which made a huge difference.

I’ve had better luck with Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries For the current gen WiFi lock but August recommends standard AA batteries for the 3rd Gen.

One thing I’m not getting anymore on any of my august locks are notifications on battery life. I’ve checked the app and can’t seem to find if there’s an option now.

A reviewer on the 4th Gen August smart lock noted:

August claims that the two CR123 lithium batteries in the Wi-Fi Smart Lock should last the same three to four months as the four AA batteries that the prior version used, but I haven’t been testing it long enough to validate that claim. There was an instance early on in my testing where the lock reported its batteries were dead after just a couple days of use, but August says this was a bug in its battery prediction algorithm and that it has been resolved on the back end. After replacing the batteries and continuing testing for over a week more, I have not seen the low battery warning show up again.

The CR123 batteries used in the new version do allow the device to be smaller, but they are harder to find in stores and less convenient to replace than the standard AA batteries from before. You can set up an Amazon Dash replenishment system in the August app to have them automatically ordered and delivered when the lock determines they need to be replaced.

*After Apple discontinued their Airport line I spent a year testing every mesh system available from Orbi’s to Eero’s to AmpliFi HD - you name it - and with 30 day return policies I made certain to make the most of each test and found linksys was the best to replace my Airport Extreme’s and I’ve hated Linksys, never used them since the 90’s but was surprised by how well they performed. Perhaps Belkin‘s acquisition made a difference. I started with the WiFi 5 Velop’s as Apple first sold them in stores. I’m surprised many on here either don’t like them or they’re not discussed often as a solid mesh network system. They’re one of the few that have Ethernet ports for a wired back haul which is a must. The new models have 4 Ethernet ports which is great.

 

[brehob]

Don't believe the HomeKit hype. Too many things work badly right now.
And reviews like this are part of the problem, shilling for whatever products will pay with zero concern fro actual functionality.

Ecobee, for example, is a great product, a nice thermostat -- but it is a LOUSY HomeKit product, and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. It constantly disconnects from HomeKit and it's random when it decides to reconnect, you can't do anything to force it.

Same with, eg, iSmartGate Garage Opener. Seems like a good idea -- but again constantly and randomly disconnects from HomeKit.

So, honestly, if you're not using HomeKit today, wait for a few years.
- Most of what's being sold today is garbage.
- Apple seems uninterested in changing this (eg much stricter licensing requirements)
- You simply cannot trust the reviewers. I don't know if they are just w****s who are happy to lie for money, or aretoo stupid to understand the real issues with HomeKit functionality (no-one gives a fsck about how it works in the first hour, what matters is how it works [or more frequently fails] in the months after installation).

Are you sure you don't just have connectivity problems, or your home hub is not playing nice? I had a couple of unreliable devices, but since firmware upgrades these have been good, and newer devices are extremely reliable. Other than a those tiny device issues, HomeKit responds quickly and has been rock solid for me.

 

[neliason]

I have 3 HomePod Minis. I’m very happy with them except when I play a podcast it doesn’t update the current position or that it was played in the Podcast app.

I love my Ecobee as a thermostat (non voice control). But too often it doesn’t show up in the Home App.

I like the smart home concept, but the failures in execution occur often enough for it to be something I don’t really use. I don’t want to depend on something unreliable.

 

[name99]

My experience has been quite different from yours.

I have used Ecobee 3 thermostats with HomeKit as well as an iDevices thermostat and several Lyric round ones, and have not experienced the problems you describe. What version of the Ecobee do you have? How reliable is your WiFi? I am using UniFi access points each connected via Ethernet rather than meshed together (something that often seems to cause problems).

I have not used this one, but someone else on this thread said he was using it and I am curious if he has the same issues that you are having.

I think the advent of thread gear will be a big deal. As a low latency, dedicated mesh for IoT products that is native IPv6 without the bag of hurt that is Zigbee, it provides the reliable network these devices need.

Eve, iDevices, Koogeek, Legand, Lifx, Meross, NetAtmo. Nanoleaf, and Vocolinc all make great HomeKit gear.

I do not have any of the EufyCam gear here, but several friends really like it.

Apple has the strictest licensing requirements in the industry. That is why there has been much less HomeKit gear. They actually require certification, something that none of the others really do.

Shane Watley has been pretty reliable, as much as anything else because he actually has his family live with his experiments. There are others as well.

I have an Ecobee 4.
I have an Amplifi HD network with an extender. My signal is fine to all my equipment.
I worked at Apple as an engineer on QuickTime for ten years -- I know something about this stuff.

The real issue, I think, is that I am DEMANDING of this stuff. I expect it to work and work well. I am constantly amazed at the level of garbage people are willing to accept (from tech, and from non-tech home items).

For example How much do you use AUTOMATION with your devices? If you have simply set your thermostat to the temps you want and don't use much (or any) automation, how would you know how often it disconnects from HomeKit? What would be the signature?
Right now, for example, I arrived home 2 hours ago. I have a HomeKit automation that runs when I get home (which definitely ran because various other items behaved as expected) but my Ecobee did not transition from Away mode to Home mode. Ecobee update the FW frequently but, unfortunately, the number of bugs does not go down, they just move around. The current iteration of HomeKit interaction (FW as of about five days ago) is that it's doing a better job of CONNECTING to HomeKit and a worse job of ACTUALLY LISTENING TO COMMANDS FROM HomeKit.

Eve I would agree mostly do well -- except their Bluetooth Range Extender which is way too flaky (has to be rebooted about once a week).
Meross is garbage. This ******** about "switch off your 5G network while you pair" with no information about that in the setup app or anywhere. Unacceptable.
NetAtmo is garbage. CO2 detector is completely useless; lost HomeKit connectivity so often I removed it from HomeKit and run it only via the app.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Homekits big plus is that it has to by design offer local control.

Completely agree. That is the thing I like best about it.

Thread is interesting but is just a refinement of zigbee.

It is a has a very different philosophy than Zigbee (even if the physical layer and modulation are the same/close).

It is basically the difference between ZeroConf and UPnP:

Zeroconf is a very precisely defined, compact trio of industry-standard network technologies that work in concert to provide a reliable foundation for effortless networking. The word foundation in that sentence is significant. What vendors choose to build on top of that reliable foundation is largely up to the vendor in question. Zeroconf is mature, stable, and in certain product segments it is already very widely adopted.

In contrast, UPnP is an open-ended collection of device-specific protocols. As each new device type comes along, the UPnP Forum creates a new working group to talk about how that device type should work. UPnP claims adoption in many network devices, but in reality the adoption is more in name than in spirit. For example, many printers claim to implement UPnP, and indeed examining the network with a packet sniffer will show that the printer is sending UPnP SSDP packets, but Windows doesn't actually use those packets to discover, configure, or use the printer. This lack of any actual useful customer benefit is a common phenomenon in the UPnP world.

Zigbee tries to define a million different, often overlapping and incompatible, profiles as part of the standard. With functions that include service discovery and addressing, it duplicates many things that standard IP networks have done for years in an incompatible way.

Thread is just a physical layer, modulation scheme and standard IPv6 with support for ZeroConf built in to it. This means that nothing but the endpoints need to be updated to support a new device type.

Many zigbee devices can actually be flashed to support Thread. Philips has mentioned they will make their bridge thread compatible but not individual bulbs and devices...

I am not sure what Philips means by that, unless they are saying they will make their bridge act as a Thread Border Router, in that if the devices do not support Thread, and the bridge already has WiFi, I am not sure why I would want to connect their bridge to the net using thread instead of WiF.

Its a shame Zwave never caught on but the tech is solid.

Not a big fan. It is sort of a mesh, but with required controllers that can be single points of failure. The only nice thing is that is supported 900MHz which has better in building coverage characteristics.

I do little "automation" but remote access and control is worth it.

I have lots of little things, adaptive lighting, scene control ("Hey Siri, movie time"), and some climate control, but until I have U1 chips and, with them, much better presence detection, I am not doing more.

 

[ececlv]

I have an Ecobee 4.
I have an Amplifi HD network with an extender. My signal is fine to all my equipment.
I worked at Apple as an engineer on QuickTime for ten years -- I know something about this stuff.

The real issue, I think, is that I am DEMANDING of this stuff. I expect it to work and work well. I am constantly amazed at the level of garbage people are willing to accept (from tech, and from non-tech home items).

For example How much do you use AUTOMATION with your devices? If you have simply set your thermostat to the temps you want and don't use much (or any) automation, how would you know how often it disconnects from HomeKit? What would be the signature?
Right now, for example, I arrived home 2 hours ago. I have a HomeKit automation that runs when I get home (which definitely ran because various other items behaved as expected) but my Ecobee did not transition from Away mode to Home mode. Ecobee update the FW frequently but, unfortunately, the number of bugs does not go down, they just move around. The current iteration of HomeKit interaction (FW as of about five days ago) is that it's doing a better job of CONNECTING to HomeKit and a worse job of ACTUALLY LISTENING TO COMMANDS FROM HomeKit.

Eve I would agree mostly do well -- except their Bluetooth Range Extender which is way too flaky (has to be rebooted about once a week).
Meross is garbage. This ******** about "switch off your 5G network while you pair" with no information about that in the setup app or anywhere. Unacceptable.
NetAtmo is garbage. CO2 detector is completely useless; lost HomeKit connectivity so often I removed it from HomeKit and run it only via the app.

I haven't had any issues with my meross stuff. Added as an accessory to homekit and it has worked flawlessly - didn't have to switch off my 5g network or do anything with my network. I have plugs, switches, and the garage door opener. Is there something i should check with my current meross stuff before i buy more?

 

[Alan Wynn]

I have an Ecobee 4.

I have not used that one, so I cannot comment on its reliability.

I have an Amplifi HD network with an extender. My signal is fine to all my equipment.

I love Ubiquity gear, but I have seen problems with how they handle ZeroConf broadcasts over the mesh. They have acknowledged there are issues, but seem to be unable or unwilling to fix them.

I worked at Apple as an engineer on QuickTime for ten years -- I know something about this stuff.

I am sure we have friends in common then. Were you there pre-NeXT or post-NeXT?

The real issue, I think, is that I am DEMANDING of this stuff. I expect it to work and work well. I am constantly amazed at the level of garbage people are willing to accept (from tech, and from non-tech home items).

I agree with you there.

For example How much do you use AUTOMATION with your devices? If you have simply set your thermostat to the temps you want and don't use much (or any) automation, how would you know how often it disconnects from HomeKit?

I have some automation, for example I have two temperature sensors - one high, one low - in a few of the rooms and when the temperature differential gets too great it turns on the ceiling fan to equalize the heat adjusting the thermostat if needed.

What would be the signature?

Failing to work in automations, showing up with status errors on the various iPad HomeKit monitors I have.

Eve I would agree mostly do well -- except their Bluetooth Range Extender which is way too flaky (has to be rebooted about once a week).

Fortunately their move to Thread should make that not a problem.

Meross is garbage. This ******** about "switch off your 5G network while you pair" with no information about that in the setup app or anywhere. Unacceptable.

Never saw that message, as I have a dedicated 2.4 GHz SSID for my IoT traffic. I have several of their outdoor switches and they have been quite reliable.

NetAtmo is garbage. CO2 detector is completely useless; lost HomeKit connectivity so often I removed it from HomeKit and run it only via the app.

I use their weather station and their cameras and have great experiences with both.

 

[CJ Dorschel]

I have a wired low voltage doorbell connected to a digital chime that’s both wired and wireless. I can’t imagine the wired doorbell is powerful enough for video doorbells like the Netatmo video doorbell. The chime does have 3 D batteries that are necessary otherwise the chime doesn’t fully ring.

I’m not wiring in a new system as I just replaced my front entrance door, sidelights, and transom which was a big project. I considered putting in an ethernet cat-7 cable for future use such as POE camera but it would have required taking down stonework and siding, etc and wasn’t worth it.

What are some good digital doorbell systems that have video capability which might work with my setup? The Netatmo smart doorbell looks interesting and I’ve been watching out for it since its announcement over two years ago but I cannot imagine my wired low voltage doorbell would power a WiFi doorbell. I’d assume a transformer or new doorbell chime with batteries that is already wired to it might be enough for power.

 

[Pimmp]

Gimme a EU dimmer, I´ve been waiting for years.......

 

[neliason]

I have used Ecobee 3 thermostats with HomeKit as well as an iDevices thermostat and several Lyric round ones, and have not experienced the problems you describe. What version of the Ecobee do you have? How reliable is your WiFi? I am using UniFi access points each connected via Ethernet rather than meshed together (something that often seems to cause problems).

I also have a 3. It disconnects randomly. My WiFi is great. And it is a short, straight line, with no walls to my router. I did all the Ecobee recommended actions to address the issue. Nothing helped. Since it randomly doesn’t work I gave up on HomeKit with Ecobee except as a novelty. I don’t know who is to blame and I love the Ecobee as a thermostat. But I can’t rely on it to work together.

 

[Alan Wynn]

If you have simply set your thermostat to the temps you want and don't use much (or any) automation, how would you know how often it disconnects from HomeKit? What would be the signature?

It occurred to me that one thing that HomeKit lacks is a solid debugging tool. It would be great to be able to log connections/disconnections and even observe traffic. We do this for every other protocol, and I think the lack of this makes it untenable in situations like your.

Much easier to go to Echobee and say:

”Here is the log that shows your product disconnected 80 time over the last 48 hours, with the specific times.”

 

[sunman42]

Logitech Circle View Camera ($160) - If you want a HomeKit Secure Video camera but not in doorbell format, Logitech also has the Circle View Camera with a 180 degree field of view, water resistance, and a high-quality camera that shows everything in full detail.

Just a no doubt extremely dumb question: why does HomeKit "Secure" Video require an iCloud account? If the limit is only a few hundred Gbyte or 1 Tbyte, why wasn't the feature written to allow an option of recording that video on a (presumably encrypted, if the Mac is new enough) hard drive for SSDc directly connected to a Mac, for instance?