HomePod and HomePod mini to Gain Support For Apple Music Lossless Audio in Future Software Update

[maxfromdenmark]

I have the Philips Fidelio headphones with lightning connector with built in DAC inside. I bought them like 4 years ago and price tag was that time approx. 150$
They will be excellent for lossless audio. And now question: if Philips could made great headphones with lossless support for 150$ so what wrong went with AirPods Max?

 

[I7guy]

Wow! Very nice Apple. This was posted at 2:30am and already there are a few hundred comments?

 

[Apleeseed84]

Is it possible for a 3rd party audio maker to build a Lightning to jack cable, similar to the one Apple made, that only does one single analog to digital conversion instead of double, like the Apple one does, and by that allow a full lossless transmitting?

Or would that be a technical and conceptual limitation?

(but at the same time, if a 3rd party maker could do it, there would be not reason for Apple not making it too...)

They did, way before everyone knew about lossless, Apple let them make cables but they had to pay Apple for using the lightning cable and when Apple tightened down on fraudulent cables a lot of cables started saying the “third party accessory wasn’t compatible” when you plugged it in, so my lightning to 3.5mm cable with DAC built in became useless.

 

[ntlman]

I have the Philips Fidelio headphones with lightning connector with built in DAC inside. I bought them like 4 years ago and price tag was that time approx. 150$
They will be excellent for lossless audio. And now question: if Philips could made great headphones with lossless support for 150$ so what wrong went with AirPods Max?

I am a life long Apple user (from pre-Mac days), but it really feels like the last few years of Ive design was mostly about ever shrinking form factors that reduced production costs but ruined the user experience. The return of ports on the MacBooks is a pretty big rebuke to that, and hopefully this will end in a similar result. After all: how many posts did we read that said fans expecting the return of the SD card slot or MagSafe were living in the past and delusional?

 

[tkermit]

No. There will be three level of lossless streaming quality, and they will have to be manually enabled/selected by the user.

The default streaming quality will continue to be AAC 256kbps. Then you can change it to:

A). 16/44.

B).24/48

C). 24/192 (only available in some content).


The Homepod only support FLAC and ALAC files up to 24/48, so no downsampling will be required.

Slight nitpick/correction, there'll only be two lossless options:

1. Tap Lossless to turn it on or off. From here, you can choose the audio quality for streaming and downloading audio.
   • Lossless for a maximum resolution of 24-bit/48 kHz
   • Hi-Res Lossless for a maximum resolution of 24-bit/192 kHz

About lossless audio in Apple Music - Apple Support

Learn about lossless audio in Apple Music and how to turn it on or off for your device.

support.apple.com

 

[sully54]

For the third time, they did. Quoting myself.


They did. T3 initially reported that Apple confirmed to them that both the Apple TV and the Homepods will support Apple Music lossless, but shortly thereafter Macrumors published an article that said the exact opposite. Every other media (including international ones), seemed to replicate what Macrumors said. Hence the confusion.

Hmm, I didn't realize T3 reported this. Fair enough.

But my point stands, all of this information should have been available from day one. Like, even now the apple music website still doesn't officially state that future HomePod compatibility is coming. Like, they can still list it as a compatible device with a footnote, like they do with the apple tv. I mean, for us here, we're more attuned to information like this because we follow it, but what of the average consumer who does not follow tech websites as closely?

For me, this is some pretty basic information that could have negated some of the initial confusion and bad press that lossless got in the early days of the announcement.

 

[B/D]

Hmm, I didn't realize T3 reported this. Fair enough.

But my point stands, all of this information should have been available from day one. Like, even now the apple music website still doesn't officially state that future HomePod compatibility is coming. Like, they can still list it as a compatible device with a footnote, like they do with the apple tv. I mean, for us here, we're more attuned to information like this because we follow it, but what of the average consumer who does not follow tech websites as closely?

For me, this is some pretty basic information that could have negated some of the initial confusion and bad press that lossless got in the early days of the announcement.

I agree with you completely. This support document about Apple Music lossless, which is detailed, clear, and well structured, should have been available the day of the announcement, NOT TODAY. Bad timing from Apple.


Messy release and botched announcement, no doubt about that. In fact, the whole thing is surprisingly clunky coming from Apple. Seems like they only added lossless audio in a rush (even stating in the support document about AM lossless that there is no virtual difference between this and the current AAC files!), for "winning the race" to Spotify.

 

[B/D]

Slight nitpick/correction, there'll only be two lossless options:

About lossless audio in Apple Music - Apple Support

Learn about lossless audio in Apple Music and how to turn it on or off for your device.

support.apple.com

What?. How strange. EVERY album will be available in 24/48?. Because if not, this looks like everything in 16/44 will be resampled to 24/48, which is bad.

 

[B/D]

Ah, "maximum resolution". So perhaps its detect when the content is 16/44 or 24/48 and change output accordingly. Hope so!

 

[jjd]

AirPlay 1 and 2 don't go beyond 44.1 kHz for audio.

Now, the HomePod will get an update.

I'm wondering if this will mean an updated AirPlay protocol or just a HomePod specific update to go from AAC to ALAC.

They do 48kHz actually. Which is higher than Redbook (CD quality). So Airplay can do lossless. Just not hi-res lossless.

 

[tkermit]

Ah, "maximum resolution". So perhaps its detect when the content is 16/44 or 24/48 and change output accordingly. Hope so!

Yeah, maybe. At least on iOS. Would be surprising if the Music app on Macs started doing it since audiophiles have been requesting exactly that for a long time with no response from Apple. Not sure what the Mac's default output sample rate is set to these days. I seem to remember that Apple already changed it from 44.1 to 48 at some point which means that CD quality content is resampled if left alone. Could be wrong though.

 

[B/D]

Yeah, maybe. At least on iOS. Would be surprising if the Music app on Macs started doing it since audiophiles have been requesting exactly that for a long time with no response from Apple. Not sure what the Mac's default output sample rate is set to these days. I seem to remember that Apple already changed it from 44.1 to 48 at some point which means that CD quality content is resampled if left alone. Could be wrong though.

Just checked on my 2019 Macbook Air -running the latest big sur stable version- audio midi setup app (never touched it ). Its set at 24 bit /44,1khz.


I wonder if the next OS update, now that they´re offering lossless, will change it automatically depending on the content. If we have to change it manually each time is going to be a massive PITA. I hope so.

 

[cmaier]

I have the Philips Fidelio headphones with lightning connector with built in DAC inside. I bought them like 4 years ago and price tag was that time approx. 150$
They will be excellent for lossless audio. And now question: if Philips could made great headphones with lossless support for 150$ so what wrong went with AirPods Max?

I’d rather have great drivers and aac than Philips drivers and lossless.

 

[Marco Klobas]

They do 48kHz actually. Which is higher than Redbook (CD quality). So Airplay can do lossless. Just not hi-res lossless.

I think that video content can reach 48 kHz. Not audio only. I have yet to see an AirPlay audio receiver that outs over 44.1 kHz.

I get your point about CD lossless via AirPlay which already is supported, though. My hope is that one day AirPlay protocol will be updated for hi-res audio.

 

[tkermit]

Just checked on my 2019 Macbook Air -running the latest big sur stable version- audio midi setup app (never touched it ). Its set at 24 bit /44,1khz.


I wonder if the next OS update, now that they´re offering lossless, will change it automatically depending on the content. If we have to change it manually each time is going to be a massive PITA. I hope so.

Another option would be to set it to 96kHz and simply leave it there so that everything is upsampled to that level, which I'm guessing would have no audible negative effect.

 

[ouimetnick]

I’m very happy to hear this. I still think the messaging was not very clear at the beginning. This support document would have cleared everything up had it been posted earlier this week.

I’m glad to see Apple adding lossless support to a discontinued speaker like the HomePod because I have a bunch of them. it’s even somewhat surprising that they are adding features like lossless and the ability to play audio via eARC with the new Apple TV on a discontinued HomePod.

 

[ntlman]

Am I the only one who thinks this would be a great opportunity to release a 20th anniversary, ltd edition iPod that addresses all these issues, and could primarily drive people to their music service, the way the Apple TV puck drives the tv streaming business? The success of the Apple Watch has proven there's a market for ltd functionality Apple devices if designed right. Hell, just have it run on watchOS instead of iOS, throw in a Wolfman-level Apple DAC chip and I bet it would sell like crazy.

 

[RowellE]

The HomePod and HomePod mini will gain support for playing back Apple Music Lossless audio in a future software update, according to a newly published Apple Support document.

​

At launch, the HomePod and HomePod mini will not support Apple Music Lossless but will instead feature support for Dolby Atmos for Apple Music.

Confuse me?

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Just checked on my 2019 Macbook Air -running the latest big sur stable version- audio midi setup app (never touched it ). Its set at 24 bit /44,1khz.


I wonder if the next OS update, now that they´re offering lossless, will change it automatically depending on the content. If we have to change it manually each time is going to be a massive PITA. I hope so.

There is a high-res music app called Audirvana Studio that does seem to automatically change the Mac to the correct sampling rate and bits (at least according to the display on my Topping D10 DAC).

It's a pretty cool app to play with if you want to dabble (or dive deep) into high-res music and different formats, etc.

 

[B/D]

Confuse me?

I guess (GUESS, the wording is indeed awful), that they´re saying that when Apple Music lossless will be live in June, the Homepods wont support streaming at the higher quality yet, but they will gain the ability to do so later with a software update.


I´m hoping thats not the case and that the Homepod will receive said software the next month to go along with the official launch.

 

[macintoshmac]

Ah yes... the Courage to remove the 3.5mm jack from the iPhone and the Courage to not put a 3.5mm jack on the AirPod Max.
Apple: the Courageous should buy dongles to get Lossless Audio.

It takes courage to look like a dongled up idiot in town. It is not easy. You gotta swallow your pride, your good sense and drink the Cook-aid.

 

[4491275]

Not really. You expect Apple to put WiFi capability in the AirPods? You think battery is short now, haha.

They could still support “Lossless” up to as much bandwidth as their Bluetooth could provide—there’s much more bandwidth left unutilized. Such as Sony’s LDAC, Apple has it within their ability to create a proprietary codec like Sony for streaming better than just the current AAC. It won’t be completely “Lossless” but neither will most things that they’re going to call Lossless in this space. The Airpod Pros would then still be able to take advantage of the new features even if lacking the ability to play it at the highest fidelity—it’s still better. I for one would happily take that as opposed to nothing at all.

The capability to do better is already there? So why not? Apple could’ve done better here for sure. But once again, I’m happy to be getting what we are… just disappointed that they go and release new products that are already “outdated” by their own new standards.

tldr they can still give us better than AAC over Bluetooth and I would much rather get “not quite lossless” using some new Apple codec on my airpods over just current AAC that’s lagging behind.

 

[klunernet]

Ah now that makes more sense. Bluetooth just doesn't have the data bandwidth for uncompressed, raw, digitised music.
But for Apple to not support it on its on Music playing hardware, which it touted at launch a few years ago as being best in class, made no sense at all.

You can leave out uncompressed. It can be compressed, ALAC certainly is, but not with a lossy compression algorithm. Most likely it lacks the bandwith for multichannel. (Needed for Dolby atmos)

 

[doboy]

They could still support “Lossless” up to as much bandwidth as their Bluetooth could provide—there’s much more bandwidth left unutilized. Such as Sony’s LDAC, Apple has it within their ability to create a proprietary codec like Sony for streaming better than just the current AAC. It won’t be completely “Lossless” but neither will most things that they’re going to call Lossless in this space. The Airpod Pros would then still be able to take advantage of the new features even if lacking the ability to play it at the highest fidelity—it’s still better. I for one would happily take that as opposed to nothing at all.

The capability to do better is already there? So why not? Apple could’ve done better here for sure. But once again, I’m happy to be getting what we are… just disappointed that they go and release new products that are already “outdated” by their own new standards.

tldr they can still give us better than AAC over Bluetooth and I would much rather get “not quite lossless” using some new Apple codec on my airpods over just current AAC that’s lagging behind.

There are always battery implications to consider. So you want semi-lossless? How much tangible benefits in sound quality do you expect and at what cost? You may trade 20% better sound for 20% less battery life (all hypothetical), but most wouldn't when it's so paltry already.

 

[ntlman]

The other issue that doesn't get discussed enough is that Apple does not support the existing Bluetooth standard for HD audio, which is AptX codec, AT ALL. AptX is supported by all the other platforms (Playstation, XBox, Windows, Android). It's a shame because even though Apple has their own uncompressed file format for CDs (AIFF, which is what I use for my personal library and devices), they do support the Windows-friendly WAV in Quicktime and iTunes.