HomePod HomePod Discontinued... Discussion.

[jeyf]

apple; late to market so early to leave

 

[AEWest]

Let's face it. The HomePod was a "failure" because it's a unique device. Having just concluded a side-by-side comparison, my $600 pair of HomePods in stereo doesn't compete at all with other "smart" speakers. In my comparison, they are batting against a pair of floor-standing Polk Audio Monitor 70 Series II (Polk's highest-rated speakers) driven by a Monoprice hybrid tube amplifier. Total cost was $625. To my tuned ears, I can hear a difference, but it is small. The Polks have less mids, more treble, and different bass (the Polk's bass is felt in the floor, the HomePods are felt in the ear). The HomePods have a relatively flatter sound, but their bass punches hard and sub-bass growls. However, the mids are higher. Both sound outstanding on their own, and these differences are only apparent when played in comparison.

Given this, Apple and reviewers missed the mark on what the HomePods were meant to be. These were never meant to compete with Echo or Google Home, these were meant to compete with home theater systems. While I haven't tried minis yet, their design suggests competition with the likes of Sony, JBL, and Google Nest with their large pill speakers. My HomePod pair can fill a warehouse with Hi-Fi sound, which is something a Google Home or Echo can only dream of. Heck, one HomePod suffices.

And no, my sudden outpouring of support for HomePod isn't because they are no longer made. It's because like many, I was also misled by reviews on what they were supposed to be and didn't appreciate it for what it was. At the time of me owning my first one, Apple hadn't quite optimized the sound yet and it sounded to me like a speaker that was working too hard to punch above its weight. The ones I have now sound different. They sound more mature, both separately and as a pair). Even the little tab on the protective film on top of the HomePod doesn't flutter as bad as it used to (had to remove it on my original HomePod, but have been able to leave it on both of my current HomePods). Apple definitely changed their tuning somewhere along the line, because I even noticed a change in how my phone sounds in the car (after an update, it suddenly sounded more alive).

All in all, I suspect the original HomePod was more of a public test while Apple tuned its audio. I expect to see some sort of replacement within the next year, and I expect it to be a bit more substantial with a much steeper price tag. There's no way they'd leave a "mini" as the sole product.

The problem with the Homepod has never been the sound quality. It failed because there are too few people like you that care about good sound quality for music. $700 for a stereo pair of speakers is simply too far down the list of priorities for the vast majority of people.

I believe more people are interested in sound quality for TV shows and movies. If Apple produced a soundbar with ATV that sounded good for both TV and music for $400 it would have been much more popular. Then they could add satellite speakers in-between the size of the mini and original HomePod that could also be stand alone speakers to grow the ecosystem.

 

[MrTSolar]

Thanks for the advice.
But how many of us can place a HomePod in the middle of our room? I for sure don't have any furniture in the middle of the room.

It doesn’t have to be middle of the room. Placing it on the front edge of a surface instead of the middle or back changes how they sound. Also, having them at regular desk height helps. I tried various placements last night of my HomePods, and they sounded best around 30”/76cm off the floor sitting on my desk. On the floor, they had “meh” sound, and on top of my speakers (48”/122cm off the floor), they were all mid-range with little treble or bass at my ears (though everything in the room was vibrating).

The HP minis don’t auto-tune to the room like the HomePods do, so manual placement is the way to tune their sound.

 

[boltjames]

Now I don't know what to do, live with the dominant bass or live with the crappy sound.

The HomePod (the big one) has a motion sensor that triggers its processor to re-scan the room and re-set the output. With it plugged in and playing a song, pick it up with both hands and rotate it all around, spin it somewhat aggressively 360 degrees so the gyroscope really gets moving, do it for 15 seconds or so. Then set it back down. See if that makes a difference.

 

[boltjames]

The problem with the Homepod has never been the sound quality. It failed because there are too few people like you that care about good sound quality for music. $700 for a stereo pair of speakers is simply too far down the list of priorities for the vast majority of people.

It did not fail on demand. For a premium wireless mono speaker, it produced more revenue than the entire Sonos company on a single sku. Billions of dollars in a few years.

It failed on profitability. Apple overestimated interest at a $350 price. It sold very well at $199. Not sustainable as it is rumored to have cost $219 to build and ship.

So Apple will take a timeout, design something between HomePod and Mini at $199, strip some unimportant features, keep the great sound quality, make their traditional profit margins, call it the HomePod HD, and introduce it when Apple Music HD lossless launches. With the cheap Mini out there as their Alexa competitor, the new HomePod will be lauded by the same pundits who trashed it the first time around. Because that’s what those imbeciles do.

 

[MrTSolar]

The problem with the Homepod has never been the sound quality. It failed because there are too few people like you that care about good sound quality for music. $700 for a stereo pair of speakers is simply too far down the list of priorities for the vast majority of people.

I believe more people are interested in sound quality for TV shows and movies. If Apple produced a soundbar with ATV that sounded good for both TV and music for $400 it would have been much more popular. Then they could add satellite speakers in-between the size of the mini and original HomePod that could also be stand alone speakers to grow the ecosystem.

When you price a pair of HomePods against any HomeKit/AirPlay enabled amp and a pair of speakers, they are actually budget with comparable sound quality. This is how they should’ve been marketed. Plus, you get tighter integration with other Apple products, making controlling everything from your phone that much easier.

Most folks that care about sound quality probably wouldn’t give a smart speaker a second look. I know I wouldn’t have if I hadn’t experienced AirPods.

 

[pencilscribbler]

The problem with the Homepod has never been the sound quality. It failed because there are too few people like you that care about good sound quality for music. $700 for a stereo pair of speakers is simply too far down the list of priorities for the vast majority of people.

I believe more people are interested in sound quality for TV shows and movies. If Apple produced a soundbar with ATV that sounded good for both TV and music for $400 it would have been much more popular. Then they could add satellite speakers in-between the size of the mini and original HomePod that could also be stand alone speakers to grow the ecosystem.

you are right @AEWest, re: current market for premium sound in homes —> TV speakers like soundbars.

see tweet thread by Apple analyst Neil Cybart (tweet link & screenshots below 👇🏻 )

Neil Cybart tweet thread link (click here)

 

[TVreporter]

Price was the main factor that kept me from buying one and I’m entrenched in Apple’s garden.

Apple just assumed people want superior audio quality but the average consumer isn’t a picky audiophile.

I don’t know anyone who has the HP.

I love the HP Mini - for my needs the sound quality is good. But I’m using it more for HomeKit and will add more as I expand with home devices.

 

[AEWest]

It did not fail on demand. For a premium wireless mono speaker, it produced more revenue than the entire Sonos company on a single sku. Billions of dollars in a few years.

It failed on profitability. Apple overestimated interest at a $350 price. It sold very well at $199. Not sustainable as it is rumored to have cost $219 to build and ship.

So Apple will take a timeout, design something between HomePod and Mini at $199, strip some unimportant features, keep the great sound quality, make their traditional profit margins, call it the HomePod HD, and introduce it when Apple Music HD lossless launches. With the cheap Mini out there as their Alexa competitor, the new HomePod will be lauded by the same pundits who trashed it the first time around. Because that’s what those imbeciles do.

If it was as successful as you keep saying, why do so few people have them? Lots of Sonos products out in the wild, very few Homepods, the exact opposite what you are claiming. Better go back and check your figures to try align with reality vs your imagination. I can assure you that if the Homepod was more popular than all of Sonos it would not have been discontinued.

In terms of lossless audio, again not enough people care, most cannot even tell the difference. It will not move the needle much in terms of Apple music/ Homepod sales. Both Spotify and Apple are introducing this feature to eliminate Tidal from the market and to show that they are a one music subscription solution for everyone.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

If it was as successful as you keep saying, why do so few people have them? Lots of Sonos products out in the wild, very few Homepods, the exact opposite what you are claiming. Better go back and check your figures to try align with reality vs your imagination. I can assure you that if the Homepod was more popular than all of Sonos it would not have been discontinued.

In terms of lossless audio, again not enough people care, most cannot even tell the difference. It will not move the needle much in terms of Apple music/ Homepod sales. Both Spotify and Apple are introducing this feature to eliminate Tidal from the market and to show that they are a one music subscription solution for everyone.

This is the thing. Nearly every single person I know uses an iPhone but I can’t think of anybody I know who has a HomePod. You’d think the natural progression for people who use the Apple ecosystem would be to have to speaker/smart assistant most compatible with their phone, but they don’t.

I know so many people with Echo’s and the main reason for that is Amazon Prime is such a common subscription mainly for fast postage and the fact you get video and music included. Then add to that the devices themselves are fairly cheap. You’re right, most aren’t audiophiles desperate for the best sound. As long as it sounds ok and plays a bit of music while you are doing the housework, I don’t think most care. Try and convince people they need a £349 speaker that does the same thing as an Echo lol. The Mini is what should have come along originally and at least it would have given Apple a footing in the market before trying to go big.

 

[boltjames]

Apple just assumed people want superior audio quality but the average consumer isn’t a picky audiophile.

MacOS has 9% market share. HomePod has 5% market share. Apple has made an entire business model around not catering to the "average consumer". Apple and Apple Music are exactly the places that "picky audiophiles" run to.

 

[boltjames]

If it was as successful as you keep saying, why do so few people have them?

Says who? Your anecdotal small pool of personal friends and relatives? I don't know a single person that owns a pickup truck. I'm told they sell a lot of them.

I can assure you that if the Homepod was more popular than all of Sonos it would not have been discontinued.

It hasn't been discontinued; it is being redesigned. A product can be a very strong seller but be improperly designed to support the proper price. HomePod sold very well at $249 and $199 but it was built to sell at $349 and is a money-loser for Apple at that retail. This is what companies do. They release something new into the wild, see how it performs, and make changes if its deemed necessary. And if HomePod was a colossal flop, Apple would have abandoned the category entirely. They wouldn't have spent the R&D necessary and fought through tough supply chain issues in a pandemic to release the Mini, a $99 version of a product that competitors sell for $49.

In terms of lossless audio, again not enough people care, most cannot even tell the difference. It will not move the needle much in terms of Apple music/ Homepod sales. Both Spotify and Apple are introducing this feature to eliminate Tidal from the market and to show that they are a one music subscription solution for everyone.

When/if Apple Music gets a premium tier it would make sense for Apple to have products that can translate that bump in sound quality to its consumers. AirPods Max will. HomePod Mini won't. Just a hunch that Apple will need more than a $549 headphone to get consumers to pay more per month for Apple Music.

 

[za9ra22]

Thanks for the advice.
But how many of us can place a HomePod in the middle of our room? I for sure don't have any furniture in the middle of the room.

It isn't so much that the middle of the room is where it ought to be, but that it is a good way to test out whether the behaviour of the HomePod is endemic to the unit you have, or a factor of the acoustics in the room. Placing in the centre of the room gives you the best and clearest way of determining if the HomePod could work for you, because in that location it is better for your tastes, or can't, because it doesn't improve it.

If the first, then it's just experimentation until you find a good location. If the second, then your HomePod really isn't likely to work the way you want it.

Acoustically, bass is enhanced by proximity to structures - and a corner location in a room, for example, with a solid surface the HomePod is sitting on, and the two walls converging, creates a kind of 'loaded horn' condition at low frequencies that sonically boosts the bass in the room. The further you can move the HomePod away from this kind of structural convergence, the less the boost at low frequencies will happen.

Which also means the previous poster is right - that moving it to the front edge of the table/shelf/whatever it is sitting on would also help instead of it being placed in the middle.

As I said, changing the location by a few inches may turn out to be all you need, not least because a feature of acoustic performance at low frequencies is also where you and the HomePod are in relation to each other. It's a factor of 'wavelength'.

 

[boltjames]

This is the thing. Nearly every single person I know uses an iPhone but I can’t think of anybody I know who has a HomePod. You’d think the natural progression for people who use the Apple ecosystem would be to have to speaker/smart assistant most compatible with their phone, but they don’t.

Nearly every person I know has an SUV but I can't think of anybody I know who has a pickup truck. Apple sells 200 iPhones per year and sold ~5 million HomePods. That's 2.5% of IOS consumers. Sounds about right. Pickup trucks are 20% of the new car market in the US.

I know so many people with Echo’s and the main reason for that is Amazon Prime is such a common subscription mainly for fast postage and the fact you get video and music included.

In my extended family group, the other households that aren't mine, they all have a cheap Amazon or Google personal assistant. They aren't "speakers". They don't use them to listen to music. They are microphones. They use them for weather. They use them for recipes. They use them for homework answers. They exist as a means to use a search engine without typing. And they either got them for free or for $15, both YouTube subscribers and Amazon Prime subscribers are constantly getting deals because they want them in our homes. YouTube gave me a free Google Home Mini just because I was a YouTube Premium member. I don't even use YouTube for music; I just don't want the ads.

The Mini is what should have come along originally and at least it would have given Apple a footing in the market before trying to go big.

The Mini isn't the answer for Apple either. They reluctantly need to be in the space for HomeKit and its wise to have an Apple Music speaker at a decent price. My wife got one for free. We have no use for it. It's still in the shrinkwrap and its been here for two months.

 

[za9ra22]

And for those claiming Apple are working on a new model:


According to Apple themselves....
“HomePod mini has been a hit since its debut last fall, offering customers amazing sound, an intelligent assistant, and smart home control all for just $99,” an Apple spokesperson told CNBC on Friday. “We are focusing our efforts on HomePod mini. We are discontinuing the original HomePod, it will continue to be available while supplies last through the Apple Online Store, Apple Retail Stores, and Apple Authorized Resellers. Apple will provide HomePod customers with software updates and service and support through Apple Care.”

 

[boltjames]

And for those claiming Apple are working on a new model:

According to Apple themselves....
“HomePod mini has been a hit since its debut last fall, offering customers amazing sound, an intelligent assistant, and smart home control all for just $99,” an Apple spokesperson told CNBC on Friday. “We are focusing our efforts on HomePod mini. We are discontinuing the original HomePod, it will continue to be available while supplies last through the Apple Online Store, Apple Retail Stores, and Apple Authorized Resellers. Apple will provide HomePod customers with software updates and service and support through Apple Care.”

We read the announcement on the day, you know, it was announced.

The Mini is a worse product than the HomePod. The Mini may be the product that convinces Apple to abandon the category, not the HomePod. The Mini is actually trying to be a personal assistant. And it can't be. Because Apple isn't a search company and Apple isn't a IoT company.

 

[AEWest]

MacOS has 9% market share. HomePod has 5% market share. Apple has made an entire business model around not catering to the "average consumer". Apple and Apple Music are exactly the places that "picky audiophiles" run to.

Incorrect. Apple has become the company we know not from MacOS but from the iPhone, i.e. catering to the average consumer. If it didn't have the iPhone it would be niche maker of computers for creatives.

Picky audiophiles are not running to Apple - there are better options available. E.G. My dream bookshelf smart speaker setup is a pair of KEF LS 2 wireless attached to an Echo dot. But I can't justify the $2550 price. So i settle with a much more affordable Sonos system. Even that costs more than most are willing spend.

I am not the only one here saying they see very few HomePods in the market. Are we all wrong?

 

[za9ra22]

We read the announcement on the day, you know, it was announced.

We also read your nonsense.

I reposted their announcement because what they say and what you do are rather different. And being Apple, what they say deserves more attention. MUCH more.

....an Apple spokesperson told CNBC on Friday. “We are focusing our efforts on HomePod mini...."

 

[Allyance]

The low frequency performance of any loudspeaker will be affected by placement. Low frequencies generally radiate 360 degrees with high frequencies being more directional. If it placed on a stand, there is no reinforcement. If placed on the middle of the floor, the sound field is cut in half. If placed on the floor up against a wall, then it is a quarter, or a 4x boost. You get the drift. So place it where it sounds best to you, and control the bass by position.

 

[AEWest]

And for those claiming Apple are working on a new model:


According to Apple themselves....
“HomePod mini has been a hit since its debut last fall, offering customers amazing sound, an intelligent assistant, and smart home control all for just $99,” an Apple spokesperson told CNBC on Friday. “We are focusing our efforts on HomePod mini. We are discontinuing the original HomePod, it will continue to be available while supplies last through the Apple Online Store, Apple Retail Stores, and Apple Authorized Resellers. Apple will provide HomePod customers with software updates and service and support through Apple Care.”

Nowhere in this announcement does it say that Apple is redesigning the Homepod and that it will be available in a year or two. Boltjames should provide evidence of this happening, or at least preface his statements with "I suspect" that a new Homepod is coming. Unless of course he is a Senior Apple Executive who has intimate knowledge of Apple's plans.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Nearly every person I know has an SUV but I can't think of anybody I know who has a pickup truck. Apple sells 200 iPhones per year and sold ~5 million HomePods. That's 2.5% of IOS consumers. Sounds about right. Pickup trucks are 20% of the new car market in the US.

That stat works if you only count those people who upgrade each year and try and work out the percentage based off that. The reality is there are many more people who use iPhones and will keep these devices long term and don’t own HomePods.

In my extended family group, the other households that aren't mine, they all have a cheap Amazon or Google personal assistant. They aren't "speakers". They don't use them to listen to music. They are microphones. They use them for weather. They use them for recipes. They use them for homework answers. They exist as a means to use a search engine without typing. And they either got them for free or for $15, both YouTube subscribers and Amazon Prime subscribers are constantly getting deals because they want them in our homes. YouTube gave me a free Google Home Mini just because I was a YouTube Premium member. I don't even use YouTube for music; I just don't want the ads.

I can assure you a lot of people use Echoes for listening to music and not just for asking random questions to. Even the TV adverts promote them as a device for music streaming and this seems to work well enough in many cases.

The Mini isn't the answer for Apple either. They reluctantly need to be in the space for HomeKit and its wise to have an Apple Music speaker at a decent price. My wife got one for free. We have no use for it. It's still in the shrinkwrap and its been here for two months.

I’m not surprised you have no use for it if you’ve already got HomePods all over your home like you’ve claimed.

 

[boltjames]

Incorrect. Apple has become the company we know not from MacOS but from the iPhone, i.e. catering to the average consumer. If it didn't have the iPhone it would be niche maker of computers for creatives.

I get that. My point is that Apple didn't drop its single-digit-market-share MacOS when they became the biggest thing in smartphones. They don't need to have a huge piece of the streaming speaker category. Just enough to make their Apple Music audiophiles happy. 5 million of us per year seems to be the number.

Picky audiophiles are not running to Apple - there are better options available.

There aren't beter options available for Apple Music subscribers, 60 million worldwide, 33 million in the United States where Apple Music is bigger than Spotify. Sure, you can use Bluetooth or AirPlay to connect to other brands of speakers, but one of the primary points of HomePod is its outstanding convenience. Plug it in to power, wait 15 seconds, 50 million songs.

I am not the only one here saying they see very few HomePods in the market. Are we all wrong?

It's that perception problem again. I own 5 of them, and I don't mean to sound conceited, but a $350 mono speaker that only works well with a paid-tier-only streaming provider isn't for everyone, first year of operation is $470 all-in and you're committing to $120 or $150 a year thereafter. You're not going to find struggling college students or single income homes able to have such a luxury. This isn't a common man's audio solution. And this isn't a common man's search engine either. Never was.

 

[boltjames]

We also read your nonsense.

I reposted their announcement because what they say and what you do are rather different. And being Apple, what they say deserves more attention. MUCH more.

....an Apple spokesperson told CNBC on Friday. “We are focusing our efforts on HomePod mini...."

The nonsense isn't coming from me. The nonsense comes from the haters programmed to misunderstand HomePod by social media since the day it was released.

When any company discontinues a current product before its replacement is ready, they say things like "we are focusing our efforts on xxxxx now". Until they aren't. Until the HomePod 2 is released. And then it will be "Mini is our personal assistant. HomePod Max is our personal stereo".

 

[boltjames]

Nowhere in this announcement does it say that Apple is redesigning the Homepod and that it will be available in a year or two. Boltjames should provide evidence of this happening, or at least preface his statements with "I suspect" that a new Homepod is coming. Unless of course he is a Senior Apple Executive who has intimate knowledge of Apple's plans.

It's Business 101.

Apple wants people waiting for a Gen 2 HomePod to stop waiting and Apple wants people to buy the new Mini. So that's the exact announcement they should make.

Before the Mini was even thought of, people in this forum were waiting Apple out for a HomePod 2 that had Bluetooth, that allowed connectivity to Spotify, that was stereo, that had a rechargeable battery, etc. It is perfectly fine business for Apple to take a niche product out of distribution, redesign it for proper profitability, and let the Mini have its moment without internal competition. So that's what they're doing.

 

[AEWest]

It's Business 101.

Apple wants people waiting for a Gen 2 HomePod to stop waiting and Apple wants people to buy the new Mini. So that's the exact announcement they should make.

Before the Mini was even thought of, people in this forum were waiting Apple out for a HomePod 2 that had Bluetooth, that allowed connectivity to Spotify, that was stereo, that had a rechargeable battery, etc. It is perfectly fine business for Apple to take a niche product out of distribution, redesign it for proper profitability, and let the Mini have its moment without internal competition. So that's what they're doing.

Marketing 101: don't confuse the market. Even People in this forum who were considering a Homepod are now uncertain whether to do so. If they knew there would be a follow up product, they would feel more certain about buying into the audio ecosystem.

If there was truly a Homepod 2 coming out, there would have at least been a development announcement to keep people from exploring alternative systems. No such announcement has been made.