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If it was built for audiophiles, it would have allowed for stereo pairing right away (that feature was added later) and be sold in pairs. Do you know any audiophiles who want to listen to a mono speaker? I don't.

I know plenty of audiophiles who want something decent to listen to in their bedrooms, bathrooms, basements, summer homes, patios, and pools. They owned mini systems in the 90's, Bose Wave CD's systems or radios in the 00's, and now are thrilled with Apple's solution.

Sometimes we audiophiles let our hair down. 50 million songs sounds great coming from something smaller than a bottle of Diet Coke and half the price of AirPods Max. I don't know any HomePod owners who are disappointed. Just a bunch of bloggers and YouTubers looking to pick on Apple while leading the legion of the gullible on a path to nowhere.
 
I think the price of the HomePod meant that only audiophiles or extreme Apple fans would buy it. However I don’t think this was Apple’s intention when they made it and put it on the market. I think they were targeting at anyone within the Apple ecosystem. I think that they felt that it would be attractive to iPhone users as a whole. If they were only targeting it to audiophiles from the start then they wouldn’t have been disappointed by sales and they wouldn’t be discontinuing it. They clearly wanted to take a bite out of the market and didn’t.

For all their greatness, Apple aren't always the best marketers.

Honda released a car back in the 00's, I think it was called the Element. And it was targeted for 20-somethings and their active lifestyles, it was going to be a young persons entry-level SUV, surfboards and beer coolers, like a fun Jeep. And it turned out that it was being bought by 70 year olds in retirement homes because it was easy to get into from their walkers and transport their wheelchairs.

Apple was trying to achieve the goal of making a great sounding IoT accessory but what they've undoubtedly discovered is that the people buying these things aren't interested in Alexa or Google Search; they are interested in a Bose Wave Radio replacement. And so it is. HomePod is the best Apple Music accessory, and Apple Music has become the biggest streaming audio platform in the United States since HomePod's release.
 
I think personally the hope was Apple customers would simply opt for a HomePod rather than a cheap Echo and absorb the cost because Apple products ‘cost more anyway’.

Those would have to be some incredibly dumb Apple buyers. There is no way Apple can compete with Alexa or Google. Amazon sells thousands of IoT devices and, as the worlds biggest retailer, has influence over all the manufacturers and suppliers. Google is the world's greatest data engine, ask it any question, its search engine has the answer.

Siri is nothing more than a voice remote control. Smart Apple buyers figured out what HomePod is supposed to be. We don't need Apple to tell us. It's the best Apple Music accessory and a great single-room solution for an audiophile who wants really good sound when he's not in his dedicated component listening room. Apple will design the HomePod Max with this in mind.
 
However, unlike boltjames, I know a failed product when I see it. It didn’t fail because it was bad. It failed because people didn’t buy into it.

It failed financially. Because Apple miscalculated what people will pay for a great sounding mono speaker tied to a single streaming platform. It did not fail in terms of sales. When it comes to demand, HomePod outperformed Sonos as a company.

It costs Apple $215 to build and it sells for $199 or $249. That's why it was discontinued. Apple will design a HomePod Pro or HomePod Max that sounds just as good but is less expensive to manufacture. It'll be launched in 2022 or 2023 about the same time that Apple Music HD, their lossless tier, is introduced.
 
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Those would have to be some incredibly dumb Apple buyers. There is no way Apple can compete with Alexa or Google. Amazon sells thousands of IoT devices and, as the worlds biggest retailer, has influence over all the manufacturers and suppliers. Google is the world's greatest data engine, ask it any question, its search engine has the answer.

Siri is nothing more than a voice remote control. Smart Apple buyers figured out what HomePod is supposed to be. We don't need Apple to tell us. It's the best Apple Music accessory and a great single-room solution for an audiophile who wants really good sound when he's not in his dedicated component listening room. Apple will design the HomePod Max with this in mind.
It’s the Apple arrogance we are all very much aware of. They tested the water with the original HomePod and have found the market is much better suited to a £99 device. Your made up scenarios aside about audiophiles with pools and only being from the United States, and yet the HomePod simply wasn’t as popular in the global market as they’d hoped. The Mini is now the attempt to make up some lost ground and is what they should have focussed on originally in 2017. They could have gained momentum and then release a better version once they were established in the market.

Another massive issue is how poorly designed and laid out Apple Music is. I’ve tried it for free on a number of occasions since it was released and it’s interface is below par compared to Spotify and Amazon music. If Apple is going to really take ahold in these sectors, they need to vastly improve their approach. Fingers in too many pies with minimal effort only to drop products after just a few years is poor and expensive for their consumers. They sell record numbers of iPhones and I think they’d hoped the HomePod was the natural step for people who already own multiple Apple devices, but they came in too high and with poor implementation.
 
Let's not get caught up in semantics.

An audiophile has one great stereo system set up in his living room or listening room. But he's got bedrooms, bathrooms, he's got an office, he has a summer home, he has a pool. HomePod is an audiophile's accessory, a replacement for the old Bose Wave Radio or that old JVC Executive Mini-System. "Hey Siri, play mellow rock radio" and on comes Fleetwood Mac next to his treadmill and it sounds really good, what an audiophile would expect and enjoy.

For an audiophile looking for a compact solution for secondary rooms in his life, HomePod is exactly what he's looking for. It's both the best sounding "smart speaker" (if one leans in the Alexa direction) and the best sounding "compact stereo system" (if one leans in the Bose direction). No one is saying that it's a replacement for a massive component system. Clear?
So you’re saying ‘let’s not get caught up in semantics, but allow me to make up a scenario to suit my argument’ lol. Christ on a bike, you’ve even found someone who actually liked that post but then I hope they found it as funny as I did?
 
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So you’re saying ‘let’s not get caught up in semantics, but allow me to make up a scenario to suit my argument’ lol. Christ on a bike, you’ve even found someone who actually liked that post but then I hope they found it as funny as I did?
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In 2008 I paid £399 for B&W Zeppelins, whose primary function was to play music from a docked iPod (with 30-pin dock connector).

Do you think they really come close in sound - especially with that use case, rather than the optical input - to Bowers and Wilkins other offerings like their $60,000 per pair Nautilus? No, but enough people bought them that they refreshed it with a lightning connector, then made an airplay-orientated version of the same speaker (as well as a mini one, at some point).

@boltjames mentioned bose in his post... Apple actually used to sell a ton of speakers in this price range. Clearly, there was a market for speakers around this price range and functionality. Whether HomePod killed the other offerings, or Apple just stopped selling them to eliminate competition, I'm not sure... maybe the market died around HomePod and the "cheap" offerings are seen as good enough.

But when HomePod came out, there were a lot more options than this:
 
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In 2008 I paid £399 for B&W Zeppelins, whose primary function was to play music from a docked iPod (with 30-pin dock connector).

Do you think they really come close in sound - especially with that use case, rather than the optical input - to Bowers and Wilkins other offerings like their $60,000 per pair Nautilus? No, but enough people bought them that they refreshed it with a lightning connector, then made an airplay-orientated version of the same speaker (as well as a mini one, at some point).

@boltjames mentioned bose in his post... Apple actually used to sell a ton of speakers in this price range. Clearly, there was a market for speakers around this price range and functionality. Whether HomePod killed the other offerings, or Apple just stopped selling them to eliminate competition, I'm not sure... maybe the market died around HomePod and the "cheap" offerings are seen as good enough.

But when HomePod came out, there were a lot more options than this:

I think the ‘good enough statement’ about other options is correct. This goes for a lot of Apple products too like the iPhone. Not everybody buys the Pro iPhones because the other options slightly further down the range are ‘good enough’. The HomePod entered a market late and tried to compete with a unique selling point of having the ‘best sound quality’ of any smart assistant, but in truth I don’t know if the mainstream market really care about sound clarity? From a personal perspective I don’t really listen to music around my home and care too much about the absolute sound quality. I put it on while doing the housework or to listen to the radio. If I want to listen to music properly then I use headphones and it’s a personal experience. It’s often a background sound and the Amazon Echo Plus (I have 4) and the Dot tend to be good enough.

I don’t believe the audiophile market is big enough for Apple and especially when audiophiles tend to be a snobby crowd and very willing to spend thousands on Hi Fi equipment. The HomePod is quite cheap by those standards and from the reviews I’ve read, hasn’t appealed widely to audiophiles in terms of being rated alongside established audio brands. This may be due to being restricted to just Apple services and lacking the ports for third party devices, who knows? I don’t doubt the HomePod is an excellent speaker but as an Apple user I haven’t been compelled to invest and I’m now glad I didn’t.
 
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I think the ‘good enough statement’ about other options is correct. This goes for a lot of Apple products too like the iPhone. Not everybody buys the Pro iPhones because the other options slightly further down the range are ‘good enough’. The HomePod entered a market late and tried to compete with a unique selling point of having the ‘best sound quality’ of any smart assistant, but in truth I don’t know if the mainstream market really care about sound clarity? From a personal perspective I don’t really listen to music around my home and care too much about the absolute sound quality. I put it on while doing the housework or to listen to the radio. If I want to listen to music properly then I use headphones and it’s a personal experience. It’s often a background sound and the Amazon Echo Plus (I have 4) and the Dot tend to be good enough.

I don’t believe the audiophile market is big enough for Apple and especially when audiophiles tend to be a snobby crowd and very willing to spend thousands on Hi Fi equipment. The HomePod is quite cheap by those standards and from the reviews I’ve read, hasn’t appealed widely to audiophiles in terms of being rated alongside established audio brands. This may be due to being restricted to just Apple services and lacking the ports for third party devices, who knows? I don’t doubt the HomePod is an excellent speaker but as an Apple user I haven’t been compelled to invest and I’m now glad I didn’t.
I think it was too restricted and locked down for true audiophiles. They wouldn’t want to be limited to Apple Music and also having no way of connecting it to other devices probably put them off.

I do agree with the echos being good enough, even the dot for smaller rooms. I used to have an echo second generation in my dining room. I replaced it with a HomePod mini. To be honest I think the echo second generation was a better fit for that room. In my kitchen I had a 3rd gen echo dot and a google nest hub. I replaced them with a HomePod mini. I think my former set up was better. I’ve already put a home hub back in the kitchen and I’ve an echo dot 4th gen on the way.


The echos and google home devices are good enough and do more. There are only a few select things that the HomePod can do that the others can’t.

I think I can justify the HomePod in my living room because I no longer have a stereo system in my house and I can also set it up with my Apple TV for audio output. Beyond that it’s difficulty to say why a HomePod mini or HomePod is a better option than an echo or a google home for other rooms.
 
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I do agree with the echos being good enough, even the dot for smaller rooms.

And there’s my point: No audiophile would ever say that or consider it acceptable. That’s the market for HomePod. No different than MacBook being a superior experience than a Netbook.
 
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@nicho Remember these? I have them in my attic. All did a good job of producing quality sound in alternate locations in the iPod/MP3 era.

HomePod satisfies those of us who were into these back in the day. And far more elegant and simple to use ones voice to call up one of 50 million songs.
 
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And there’s my point: No audiophile would ever say that or consider it acceptable. That’s the market for HomePod. No different than MacBook being a superior experience than a Netbook.
A very small segment of the audiophile market that is a niche market in its own right, was not the intention for the HomePod though. I asked you to provide proof this is the intended market and you conveniently ignored that. The HomePod was aimed at everybody already in the Apple ecosystem and was unveiled at the keynote that year alongside every other Apple product. The very fact they’ve discontinued the better product in favour for promoting focus to the Mini suggests the demand was not satisfied at present.

They may revisit in future but right now the smart assistant market is saturated with affordable ‘good enough’ devices and audiophile publications have even rated the HomePod lower than rival offerings. Whether Apple have made a couple of billion from it is irrelevant as they lose that fighting legal cases anyway and it’s small change. They want popular products first and foremost.
 
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A very small segment of the audiophile market that is a niche market in its own right, was not the intention for the HomePod though. I asked you to provide proof this is the intended market and you conveniently ignored that.

Watch the 2017 WWDC Keynote, at the very end, "one more thing" segment. Tim Cook states "we want to reinvent home music" and goes off for 5 minutes on how Apple innovated iPod, iTunes, and Apple Music. And then Phil Schiller comes out and puts up a giant slide of a Sonos speaker. Next he shows Alexa and how "it doesn't sound great" and how the objective of HomePod is to "rock the house, really low or really loud without distortion" by comparison. He talks about how it needs to be Spatially Aware so that all rooms sound fantastic with audio refinement. Then he says it needs to have a built in Musicologist. Makes sense because HomePod is a speaker, not a microphone dressed up as a speaker.

The first 10 minutes they don't even mention a personal assistant or IoT functions. It's all about audio. It's all there. @nicho put up other Apple collateral from the time as well.
 
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They released these products backwards. They should have started with the $99 device and then expanded to the bigger/better audio market. A $350 smart home device just never made sense as the only option. And if you notice, every time they went on sale for $200 people were buying them up.
 
Watch the 2017 WWDC Keynote, at the very end, "one more thing" segment. Tim Cook states "we want to reinvent home music" and goes off for 5 minutes on how Apple innovated iPod, iTunes, and Apple Music. And then Phil Schiller comes out and puts up a giant slide of a Sonos speaker. Next he shows Alexa and how "it doesn't sound great" and how the objective of HomePod is to "rock the house, really low or really loud without distortion" by comparison. He talks about how it needs to be Spatially Aware so that all rooms sound fantastic with audio refinement. Then he says it needs to have a built in Musicologist. Makes sense because HomePod is a speaker, not a microphone dressed up as a speaker.

The first 10 minutes they don't even mention a personal assistant or IoT functions. It's all about audio. It's all there. @nicho put up other Apple collateral from the time as well.

So how does that presentation direct the product towards ‘audiophiles’ and not just the everyday person who listens to music in their home? You don’t have to be an audiophile to want a speaker for playing music and I did not get the impression from that keynote that Apple were just trying to appeal to a minority audience. They wanted as many Apple users as possible to buy that product and hoped the USP of being a high quality audio speaker would encourage people to simply pay three times as much as they were for Amazon and Google speakers. That hasn’t happened to any groundbreaking degree and now they are dropping the higher tier device in favour of a speaker that appeals to a larger market.

The next hurdle is getting Apple Music up to scratch to compete against Spotify and Amazon music, or they allow people to log in to third party accounts to stream from other suppliers. This along with the price is what has held people back significantly.
 
It failed financially. Because Apple miscalculated what people will pay for a great sounding mono speaker tied to a single streaming platform. It did not fail in terms of sales. When it comes to demand, HomePod outperformed Sonos as a company.

It costs Apple $215 to build and it sells for $199 or $249. That's why it was discontinued. Apple will design a HomePod Pro or HomePod Max that sounds just as good but is less expensive to manufacture. It'll be launched in 2022 or 2023 about the same time that Apple Music HD, their lossless tier, is introduced.
Keep bringing up Sonos but the facts are, Sonos is still alive and well. HomePod, not so much.

How do you know what the demand is? I just bought a new HomePod a few weeks ago from Apple with a 2018 manufacture date on it. The HomePod was in such high demand, they couldn’t keep up with it. Apparently they were moving like hot cakes. How can you figure demand if they weren’t selling? It would indicate the opposite, unless you followed around window shoppers drooling over the HomePod but didn’t have the cash. Yeah they were selling at $199 but that makes it a failure in every way if they couldn’t break even on it. Anything will have a high demand if the price is unprofitably low.


Where are you getting the figure that it costs $215 to build a HomePod?
 
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They released these products backwards. They should have started with the $99 device and then expanded to the bigger/better audio market. A $350 smart home device just never made sense as the only option. And if you notice, every time they went on sale for $200 people were buying them up.

I'm all for that, it would have allowed the Mini to take all the body blows from the hater media and let HomePod shine as being built for the right reasons with its focus on sound quality.
 
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So how does that presentation direct the product towards ‘audiophiles’ and not just the everyday person who listens to music in their home? You don’t have to be an audiophile to want a speaker for playing music and I did not get the impression from that keynote that Apple were just trying to appeal to a minority audience. They wanted as many Apple users as possible to buy that product and hoped the USP of being a high quality audio speaker would encourage people to simply pay three times as much as they were for Amazon and Google speakers. That hasn’t happened to any groundbreaking degree and now they are dropping the higher tier device in favour of a speaker that appeals to a larger market.

It's a $350 mono speaker. If that doesn't say "niche" nothing will. The everyday speaker is made by Google and Amazon and is $30. Free, if you subscribe to YouTube Premium.

The next hurdle is getting Apple Music up to scratch to compete against Spotify and Amazon music, or they allow people to log in to third party accounts to stream from other suppliers. This along with the price is what has held people back significantly.

Apple Music is crushing Spotify, Amazon, and Google when it comes to streaming. Half of Spotify's subscribers pay nothing, they are using the free tier. Apple Music doesn't have a free tier, all its users are paying customers. Again, a reason why HomePod is a massive success even at a reduced retail; Apple more than made up for the $50 shortfall I caused when I bought mine for $299 due to my monthly Apple Music subscription.
 
Keep bringing up Sonos but the facts are, Sonos is still alive and well. HomePod, not so much.

HomePod has shifted to Mini for the time being and the early read is that it's a huge success. So too will be HomePod 2 when launched with new features and, most importantly, a design that allows Apple to make proper margins.

I just bought a new HomePod a few weeks ago from Apple with a 2018 manufacture date on it. The HomePod was in such high demand, they couldn’t keep up with it. Apparently they were moving like hot cakes. How can you figure demand if they weren’t selling?

Inventory management, profitability, and revenue are 3 distinctly different things. Apple's inventory department may have bought too many. Apple's marketing department may have misread the price thresholds customers are willing to pay. What we know is that HomePod sold extremely well at $249 and $199, something Apple has taken notice of.

Apple can afford to make mistakes like this because they make so much money from iPhone and Macbook and, of course, Apple Music subscriptions. Funny, Google can give away their Mini for $0 and no one seems to care. Funny, AirPods have the exact same Siri/IoT/Search liabilities as HomePod and they get rave reviews. HomePod is a great product that gets picked on by clickbaiting vloggers. Don't be so gullible.
 
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HomePod has shifted to Mini for the time being and the early read is that it's a huge success. So too will be HomePod 2 when launched with new features and, most importantly, a design that allows Apple to make proper margins.



Inventory management, profitability, and revenue are 3 distinctly different things. Apple's inventory department may have bought too many. Apple's marketing department may have misread the price thresholds customers are willing to pay. What we know is that HomePod sold extremely well at $249 and $199, something Apple has taken notice of.

Apple can afford to make mistakes like this because they make so much money from iPhone and Macbook and, of course, Apple Music subscriptions. Funny, Google can give away their Mini for $0 and no one seems to care. Funny, AirPods have the exact same Siri/IoT/Search liabilities as HomePod and they get rave reviews. HomePod is a great product that gets picked on by clickbaiting vloggers. Don't be so gullible.



Gee, if only there were this website that had a big rectangular box on it and a button that says "search" on it. Wow, would that be amazing.
Once again, anything will sell well if the company is taking a hit on it. Porsche 911 Turbo dropped the price to 25K... of course demand would be through the roof.

You do realize that these vloggers are Apple fan boys, right? You think they’re bashing the HomePod for the sake of views? It would completely invalidate their love for Apple against Android/Amazon products.

Of all the tech sites, news, vlogs, blogs, really anyone that has a heartbeat, you’re the only one saying that the HomePod was a huge success. Axed in 3 years. Made enough inventory in one year to cover demand until it’s demise. I’d love evidence of someone owning a HomePod built in 2019 or 2020. Do you think this HomePod Pro or Max you speak of at a lower price will sound as good? No, it will be a different product just like the Mini. One that appeals more to the masses in hardware and price. If such a thing will even ever exist.

I know how to search. I’m asking you what your source is. Usually people can back their claims with reliable fact sources.
 
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It's a $350 mono speaker. If that doesn't say "niche" nothing will. The everyday speaker is made by Google and Amazon and is $30. Free, if you subscribe to YouTube Premium.



Apple Music is crushing Spotify, Amazon, and Google when it comes to streaming. Half of Spotify's subscribers pay nothing, they are using the free tier. Apple Music doesn't have a free tier, all its users are paying customers. Again, a reason why HomePod is a massive success even at a reduced retail; Apple more than made up for the $50 shortfall I caused when I bought mine for $299 due to my monthly Apple Music subscription.
Apple music is definitely doing well. I can't say of it's doing better than Spotify even if you discount free trials and the free tier. However it's likely the second biggest streaming service worldwide. I think most of Amazon's subscribers are actually people who subscribed to prime and got prime music as part of the subscription.
 
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It's a $350 mono speaker. If that doesn't say "niche" nothing will. The everyday speaker is made by Google and Amazon and is $30. Free, if you subscribe to YouTube Premium.
Not a particularly expensive speaker though. An Apple Watch is £399 and they are incredibly common now. iPhones are owned by pretty much every demographic and cost twice and three times as much as a HomePod. iPads are in millions of households too. Apple created it as a niche but purely by accident in my opinion.

Apple Music is crushing Spotify, Amazon, and Google when it comes to streaming. Half of Spotify's subscribers pay nothing, they are using the free tier. Apple Music doesn't have a free tier, all its users are paying customers. Again, a reason why HomePod is a massive success even at a reduced retail; Apple more than made up for the $50 shortfall I caused when I bought mine for $299 due to my monthly Apple Music subscription.
Apple Music wouldn’t be the third or forth popular service behind Amazon, Spotify and Tidal if it was crushing them. How many people pay is irrelevant as it’s about outreach. Apple Music has a poor interface and is lacking compared to Spotify which has been around about a decade longer. You may love it and that’s fine.

You keep saying the HomePod is a ‘massive success’ but the facts are there that it’s not. They’ve discontinued their best device without replacing it with a replacement and are now just maintaining presence in the market with a £99 HomePod Mini. If the HomePod was a massive success, they would keep producing it and be planning an updated version this year. They are not because the more expensive device has flopped by their standards and they’ve realised they haven’t got enough market penetration to justify manufacturing it. The Mini remains to gain ground as the smart assistant market demands a sensibly priced speaker, not a £349 version. If it was just aimed at audiophiles, a previous claim of yours, it would cost £700+ and still be available.
 
Was the iPod mini a failure?

It was a massive success and evolved into a succession of popular products prior to the launch of the iPhone. It was wasn’t discontinued and not given a suitable replacement. iPods came out every single year and were only discontinued once the next generation was in the market.
 
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It was a massive success and evolved into a succession of popular products prior to the launch of the iPhone. It was wasn’t discontinued and not given a suitable replacement. iPods came out every single year and were only discontinued once the next generation was in the market.

It was discontinued and replaced by something with a smaller capacity. For someone with 5.5GB of music, the nano was wholly inadequate until the 2nd generation a year later, much like the audio capabilities of a mini don't match the full-sized homepod.

But the point is... if being discontinued doesn't make iPod mini a failure, why does being discontinued make homepod a failure?

The entire iPod line sold less than 4.5m units in 2004. Yes there were 22m units sold in 2005, but that includes the iPod shuffle and holiday sales of the iPod nano after the mini was discontinued. The first gen shuffle sold around 10m according to some - it's therefore unlikely that the iPod mini (as popular as it seemed at the time) sold much more than homepod did in its lifetime, although granted the mini achieved it in a shorter time span.
 
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It was discontinued and replaced by something with a smaller capacity. For someone with 5.5GB of music, the nano was wholly inadequate until the 2nd generation a year later, much like the audio capabilities of a mini don't match the full-sized homepod.

But the point is... if being discontinued doesn't make iPod mini a failure, why does being discontinued make homepod a failure?

The entire iPod line sold less than 4.5m units in 2004. Yes there were 22m units sold in 2005, but that includes the iPod shuffle and holiday sales of the iPod nano after the mini was discontinued. The first gen shuffle sold around 10m according to some - it's therefore unlikely that the iPod mini (as popular as it seemed at the time) sold much more than homepod did in its lifetime, although granted the mini achieved it in a shorter time span.
Apple probably realised people weren’t upgrading their MP3 players on an annual basis therefore could go 18 months between significant upgrades. In recent years the demand for annual upgrades increased but as we’ve now seen with the iPhone, this demand has been dropping off for about 5 years now as people keep devices much longer now the technology has reached a plateau.

My basis for saying the HomePod is less of a success comes down to the fact they’ve reduced the price of it 3 times in its life which is only just over 3 years now. Nothing significant in terms of hardware improvements came in that time either. Now they’ve discontinued it without unveiling a replacement of the same standard. As of now they have remaining inventory of the old HomePods to deplete, and beyond that a £99 device that is largely inferior in terms of sound quality. This strategy of giving consumers time to invest in alternative systems whilst Apple develop a new HomePod Pro would either be far fetched or risky considering they are in a distant third place in the smart speaker market IMHO.
 
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