How About A LEGAL unlock method?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by carfac, Sep 28, 2007.

  1. carfac macrumors 65816

    carfac

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    #1
    I do not know if this will work or not, but sometimes it helps if a lot of noise is made on a subject. Remember people complaining about the iPhone price reduction- that got a response. Or how about 10 or 15 complaining about Janet Jacksons boob in the Superbowl... a few voices there made a profound difference.

    So lets attempt to make some noise, and get a LEGAL unlock on the iPhone.Lets complain to the FCC (who licenses the iPhone, BTW), and see if anything can be done that way.

    You can file a complaint against ATT and/or Apple with the FCC here:

    http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cib/fcc475.cfm

    You MAY want to point out that typically ATT will unlock anyones phone who has been a customer in good standing for 90 days... but NOT the iPhone. There may be no legal requirement in the US to provide an unlock, but when it is a company's common practice, there is a precedent, and a reason to question the lack of an unlock.

    You may also want to complain that Apple has actively making fully paid for products unusable with their software upgrades, and whether intentional or not. (I know, there is a warning. But it is worth pointing out that unlocked phones are bricked by the update, and Apple provides neither a way to fix those phones, or an approved path to unlock them)

    Just some ideas- there are a LOT of points one can make in their complaints.

    I suggest that if you are upset about this bricking and lack of a reasonable path to unlocking of your phone, that a complaint to the FCC may be in order.

    I do not think there is a real LEGAL requirement to make them unlock, but if we get some attention focused on this, maybe that could be changed. Or, maybe we can get an unlock for accounts in good standing, one that will survive future upgrades.

    In any case, it only takes a few minutes, and may make you feel better. And enough people complain, maybe something can happen. It only took 10 or so people to get the Janet Jackson brew-ha-ha going- I bet we can get more people complaining than that!

    Dave
     
  2. Kchino macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    #2
    Good suggestion, you can also call them if your phone still works:

    FCC (1-888-CALL-FCC)
     
  3. DeaconGraves macrumors 65816

    DeaconGraves

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    #3
    That's because Americans (and the news outlets) get much more up in arms regarding protecting our children and the nation's morals then they do about something like this.

    Time for someone to find a porn hack and then there'll be some progress :p
     
  4. GimmeSlack12 macrumors 603

    GimmeSlack12

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #4
    This is ridiculous. Leave it to the Mac zealots to think that there is a reason that we should get an exception to the rule.

    Why not get Samsung and LG phones working on other carriers than Verizon while you're at it. Or get XM radios to work with Sirrius. PS3 games to work on Xbox 360's. Get dogs and cats to be friends.

    Its a business deal guys with contracts and laws and lawyers and stuff. Give it a rest!

    You realize there were probably a few more than that that complained.
     
  5. carfac thread starter macrumors 65816

    carfac

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    #5
    Yeah, I agree.... but don't you think the iPhone is sexy, too? I don't just mean the design, I mean the appeal to the media. Look how they (the media) was all over the price cut. They would LOVE more iPhonenastiness.
     
  6. Kchino macrumors member

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    Jul 4, 2007
    #6
    I wonder if you could name one Samsung or LG GSM phone that is not unlockable. Verizon is CDMA, AT&T is GSM, as is the overwhelming majority of the world. Just because it's a business deal does not make it right. The DMCA allows the consumer to unlock your GSM phone because that is specifically why the standard was created in the first place, so you could use it on any GSM carrier.

    You really have to be short sighted to be opposed to "unlocking" it protects the consumer. In countries where it is illegal to sell locked phones pricing on services are more competitive. If Apple truly wanted a exclusive iPhone then they should have made the deal with Verizon.
     
  7. GimmeSlack12 macrumors 603

    GimmeSlack12

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    San Francisco
    #7
    Short sighted is one thing, but to understand that unlocking a phone that can become a brick later is another.

    A business deal is a business deal, if that deal includes Apple dis-allowing unlocking phones then who are we to change that deal?
     
  8. Canuck4 macrumors 6502a

    Canuck4

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    #8
    LMAO :D
    Loved the cats and dogs part :D
    I agree though, it dont matter what people say or how much they cry, it aint happening.


     
  9. Kchino macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    #9
    As the OP suggested closed mouths don't get fed so if people complain, then the FCC will force AT&T and Apple to release an unlocking solution for AT&T customers that will allow you to update the phone. As for non AT&T users Apple has the right to deny them support for the phone if you're ignoring the exclusive agreement that they have with AT&T. They should not however be intentionally bricking phones that is just bad business.
     
  10. carfac thread starter macrumors 65816

    carfac

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    #10
    Thanks. My point exactly. At least it lets you do SOMETHING, and let your voice be heard.

    And lets remember, Just because the EULA or SLA says "You must blah blah" does NOT make that legal, either. Apple can pretty much say ANYTHING they want in the SLA, that does not make it legal or enforcable. "Well they have teams of lawyers blah blah..." Yeah. And a good lawyer will try and bend the law, or interpet to fit their clients needs... or even say, "Yeah, put it in there and see if anyone challenges it." It does NOT mean it is legal.

    If the outcry is great enough, things will change, for the iPhone, and maybe other phones, too.

    It is not a strictly iPhones issue, really, it is a consumer issue. The iPhone is just the flashpoint.

    Another point I read somewhere- your do NOT have a "right" to unlock your phone, and that is NOT what the DMCA amendment says. What it says is that Apple cannot prosecute you under the DMCA for unlocking your phone (for personal use). I would say this backs up my position- we do not have a LEGAL right to unlocked phones, but there is a strong feeling that we should HAVE them. This could be the first step in headed that direction.
     
  11. carfac thread starter macrumors 65816

    carfac

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    #11
    If you never ask for something, you won't be getting it.

    How many people here have bothered to ask ATT to unlock their phones? Have you ever asked a genius what you have to do to get it unlocked?
     
  12. GimmeSlack12 macrumors 603

    GimmeSlack12

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    San Francisco
    #12
    :) You're kidding right? The FCC will force AT&T? No it won't. And the OP is referencing cases that are really pretty weak examples. Boobs on live TV and exclusive mobile phone networks are terrible comparison points.
     
  13. Kchino macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    #13
    LOL, do just a little research before you say they won't, the FCC and AT&T have a long sometimes contentious relationship. The FCC has forced AT&T's hand more than once. Net Neutrality is coming even if most consumers are too sheepish to realize the benefits.

    I can be lazy too, but here are a couple of iPhone related FCC articles:

    http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/kevinmaney/2007-01-30-carterfone_x.htm

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/01/t...tml?ex=1187841600&en=fe8268febb720bde&ei=5070
     
  14. GimmeSlack12 macrumors 603

    GimmeSlack12

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    San Francisco
    #14
    I'll let you waste your time on researching that, and I'll say I'll eat my hat if the FCC does force AT&T.
     
  15. EvryDayImShufln macrumors 65816

    EvryDayImShufln

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    Sep 18, 2006
    #15
    If Apple is tied to AT&T in the US I doubt the FCC will actually do anything. Maybe when the contract is over in 2009 then something can be done, but for now I really doubt it.
     
  16. Unspeaked macrumors 68020

    Unspeaked

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    Dec 29, 2003
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    West Coast
    #16
    You do realize Samsung and LG make near identical phones for all the carriers, don't you?

    And that those phones are either easily unlocked with methods found online (and not in danger of turning into bricks because of that) or - get this! - unlocked by your carrier if you call them and ask nicely after you've been a customer for 30 or 60 or 90 days.

    The only reason most Verizon phones aren't used with other providers is because of their half-arsed CDMA network. I know of people who use their same phone and switch amongst Cingular/AT&T/T-Mobile (or AT&T/T-Mobile nowadays) like they're changing lanes on the highway, and it's a hundred times more common in Europe. There, folks will change carrier from week to week - all with the same phone...
     
  17. KittyToy macrumors 6502

    KittyToy

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    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Davenport
    #17
    whaaa whaaa blah blah......i swear you guys act like steve held a gun to your head and said buy the iphone...if you didn't like AT&T or care for the deal get yaself another phone....smdh.......cry babies:p
     
  18. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    Gone but not forgotten.
    #18
    A 5 year contract with AT&T starting in 2007 ends in 2012. ;)

    The FCC can't do much of anything, even if it were willing to do anything. Anyone who activated an iPhone agreed to not unlock it or mess with the system software in any other way.

    All the FCC can say to anyone is that each person needs to take it up with Apple and AT&T since the person confirmed the agreement.
     
  19. joeconvert macrumors 6502

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    TX
    #19
    Not advocating for the OP, but you do realize those are pretty bad comparisons?
     
  20. MarshallM macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Location:
    UK
    #20
    I would believe Apple has a simple method for unlocking iPhones (probably in 1.1.1). Here's why:

    Undoubtedly the 1.1.1 release included UK network settings etc, and in the UK I'll put simply consumer law on phones: Phones must be unlocked/unlockable after the contract period IF the phone has been subsidised. Phones can only be locked if they're subsidised. The iPhone is not.
     
  21. EvryDayImShufln macrumors 65816

    EvryDayImShufln

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    #21
    Oh man it's 5 years??? That's ridiculously long! How long did the average person need to sign up with AT&T for anyway to get an iPhone?
     
  22. RichP macrumors 68000

    RichP

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2003
    Location:
    Motor City
    #22
    +1 The whining is out of hand, and ruining this forum.

    Either suck it up and get ATT, or get another phone. I dont understand it, honestly. The only other US carrier choice is T-mobile, hardly an upgrade from ATT. With the time and resources spent fighting this frivolous case, you could have just switched carriers.
     
  23. carfac thread starter macrumors 65816

    carfac

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    #23

    No, the HATE (on BOTH sides) is what is out of hand on this forum. The ATT/Apple Squad that spews hate at anyone daring to unlock the blessed and holy iPhone... and the Unlock squad hating anyone who "steps on their rights to do whatever they want with what they own."

    I do not think there is ANY whining on this specific thread, at least until the haters jumped in. I have merely offered a method to voice once opinion to change things. Did I whine? No, I actually support the legality of the lock by Apple/ATT. I say that laws change, and they change when there is a public outcry. Not exactly whining, in fact, I think it is quite balanced.

    Really, you are missing the point- this has nothing to do with the ATT/Apple contract. What it has to do with is system-wide- ATT, T-Mo, Verizon and all the rest. There is a compelling reason to keep a phone locked when that phone is subsidized, I would not argue. But when you have completed the terms of your contract, then what?

    Irrespective of any ATT/Apple contract, what the FCC CAN do (or Congress, if a big enough stink is made) is mandate that ALL carriers provide a fair and equitable method of unlocking all their phones once the terms of the contract has successfully concluded. What we can say is this is a consumer rights issue. Besides, in two years, will you still consider yourself bound by the ATT contract? No? Well, what are you gonna do with that phone then?

    I am advocating that we let our voices be heard that when WE own a phone outright, and have fulfilled the terms of our contract, that we deserve an unlock, or a path to unlock.

    I just think the iPhone situation is a good place to start that campaign, but IO do not care what phone it is. Once you own it, it SHOULD be unlocked for you on demand as a matter of law. If that means the law needs to be changed, fine, but first, we need to create some awareness about this.
     
  24. CalBoy macrumors 604

    CalBoy

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    #24
    OP, your central point seems to hinge on ATT being required to provide an unlock, which would never work. Even if ATT received a thousand complaint letters, it would matter to them. Why? The answer lies in who is doing the complaining. All of the iPhone letters (or most of them) would be coming from people who want an iPhone, but don't want ATT. In essence, ATT doesn't gain any customers or lose any customers by refusing to provide an unlock service. And, as we know from common sense, if a company can't gain any customers, it isn't going to bother.
     
  25. Sobe macrumors 68000

    Sobe

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
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    Wash DC suburbs
    #25
    That's to be expected when the forum for iPhones has no dedicated hacker/unlock forum and people who just want unadulterated iPhone information have to deal with pages of posts on dealing with the aftermath of these actions.

    It's amusing, cause we have a separate forum for accessories or other things of FAR less consequence to the iPhone than these hacks/unlocks.

    I mean look at this forum. The top sticky post is "iPhone SimFree FREE tool (iUnlock) released..." a 5 star rated thread!

    Honestly, it's just asking for disharmony and back and forth sniping.
     

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