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How About A LEGAL unlock method?
- Thread starter carfac
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No. Apple can furnish an unlock later, or through the "genus" bars, ATT stores, or ATT Tech support. Any of which would be legal.
Though it would probably violate the contract between ATT and Apple
What part of the contract?
Oh just the part that guarentees Apple won't sell the iPhone over any carrier except ATT for the next five years.
First, quote me the exact language.
Then, show me where in that language it precludes Apple from furnishing an unlock code under an FCC or court order, or for someone who has completed their 2 year ATT contract.
Naturally, I don't have access to the actual contract, but I do have access to my own reasoning ability. ATT won't be happy with Apple if Apple offers unlocking to its customers. This is esspecially highlighted by the fact that Apple collect some (I believe $9 per month) from ATT for each iPhone that is activiated and tied to an iPhone plan.
As for a court order, that is an entirely different matter. Apple would have little choice in such a situation. However, note that US law does not currently require companies to supply unlocked phones.
Apple sets the terms of use for the iPhone. One of those is a 2 year AT&T contract with the phone locked to AT&T.
I'm pretty sure that Apple's Lawyers have covered all their bases and someone on a forum isn't going to find a loophole.
It will be interesting to see how Apple handles the unlocking mandate in Europe, but I'm sure Apple's Lawyers have covered that also.
If you don't agree to the terms Apple sets, then don't buy the product, its very simple.
Also, stop trying to outsmart Apple's lawyers, its not gonna happen. Seriously.
I'm pretty sure that Apple's Lawyers have covered all their bases and someone on a forum isn't going to find a loophole.
It will be interesting to see how Apple handles the unlocking mandate in Europe, but I'm sure Apple's Lawyers have covered that also.
If you don't agree to the terms Apple sets, then don't buy the product, its very simple.
Also, stop trying to outsmart Apple's lawyers, its not gonna happen. Seriously.
You and I agree- nothing REQUIRES Apple TODAY to do this. But lets make a stink, make this an issue, not just about the iPhone, but about ALL locked phones, and maybe there will be a change. And then a court order. And then who cares what the ATT/Apple contract is, there will be certian conditions under which carriers or makers must unlock phones.
It just needs to be exposed.
For all of the complaints, for all of the disagreements, I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with you
The US cellphone market as a whole is rotten; consumers ought to make a stink (write letters to your representatives in the House and to your Senators!).
Say what you will about ATT, at least they let you receive solicited texts of your choice. (sorry, registration required.)
The point is that calboy is right, the US cell market is rotten, but they are all rotting from different issues....ATT is no better or worse overall than any of the others.
You want change, you need to put pressure on the whole industry.
The point is that calboy is right, the US cell market is rotten, but they are all rotting from different issues....ATT is no better or worse overall than any of the others.
You want change, you need to put pressure on the whole industry.
I heard about that Verizon thing...made me sad.
As for putting pressure on the industry, I think it's going to take some extensive consumer action. However, we, as Americans, should look to our heritage and remember that when we come together as one conscious voice, we have a great deal of economic and political power.
Agreed, but I would suggest that the time to leverage that power is not after a purchase has been made, but rather before.
The next gen iPhone that comes out would be an excellent example of an opportunity for people so inclined.
Also, prior to the launches in Europe (basically now) would be a good opportunity for people to raise their objections and vote with their Euros or Pounds such as the case may be.
I think one way we might be able to see how many are boycotting the iPhone is to see if sales of other smart phones have gone up. If people are signing up for the iPhone data plan (can this be done?) without using an iPhone, there might be a clear indication that people aren't willing to use a very "set in stone" phone. I'd be interested to know how Verizon and Sprint are doing with their smart phone and smart phone data plan sales.
The problem is isolating variables and assigning a causal relationship to a correlation.
Maybe more people need email on the go, or maybe more businesses are buying phones for their employees.
In other words, any trend of sales with other smart phones might have any number of reasons behind them that have nothing to do with Apple.
Isolating the extent to which it is Apple would be nearly impossible.
Perhaps if current smart phone users were asked if they turned down the iPhone or thought about the iPhone but ended up going with somethine else and then having them choose the reasons?
unlocking
Even if Apple was forced by the FCC to unlock iPhones, they could still terminate your Software License Agreement you agreed to when powering up your phone the first time. Sure your iPhone would be unlocked but without the Firmware and Operating System you'd still have a brick. If you want an unlocked iPhone you better get busy developing custom firmware and iPhone Linux
Even if Apple was forced by the FCC to unlock iPhones, they could still terminate your Software License Agreement you agreed to when powering up your phone the first time. Sure your iPhone would be unlocked but without the Firmware and Operating System you'd still have a brick. If you want an unlocked iPhone you better get busy developing custom firmware and iPhone Linux
Even if Apple was forced by the FCC to unlock iPhones, they could still terminate your Software License Agreement you agreed to when powering up your phone the first time. Sure your iPhone would be unlocked but without the Firmware and Operating System you'd still have a brick. If you want an unlocked iPhone you better get busy developing custom firmware and iPhone Linux
Well, that's true, but I think what consumers would demand is an unlocked phone which works. Without that, customers would essentially be in the same position they are now, as unlocking the phone is perfectly legal, but its viability isn't so great.
unlocking
How do you figure that unlocking the iphone is perfectly legal? It would be perfectly legal to unlock an iPhone by flashing custom firmware and an operating system to it. But if you intend to modify apple's firmware and continue using apple's OS then you would be violating the terms of the Software License Agreement. You don't own OSX, you license it for use.
How do you figure that unlocking the iphone is perfectly legal? It would be perfectly legal to unlock an iPhone by flashing custom firmware and an operating system to it. But if you intend to modify apple's firmware and continue using apple's OS then you would be violating the terms of the Software License Agreement. You don't own OSX, you license it for use.
The King is naked...everyone sees....
Aren't we are supposed to be living in a free society? Free
societies use "laissez faire economics" to do business. In other
words, free enterprise. Corporate Apple sells a product, consumer
buys product and decides how they want to use it. They may choose to
use it as a doorstop or a phone. It is ridiculous to think I am
barred from using my phone however I want, as long as it does not
encroach on another.
If it happens to not fit in the "box" that Apple
thinks it should, but the consumer does, shouldn't they change their attitude (agreements)? What ever happened to the philosophy the customer is always right?
The consumer will decide the best course of
action for the product, but the company better listen to the consumer
or there will be a huge backlash. It happens with every business. ATT
is an outstanding example of a company that tries to do the opposite
of the free enterprise market philosophy. They simply don't care
about the consumer, but do care about total control over the consumer
the way "they think is best." ATT would like to change the name to
iControl, not iphone. If you have any doubt, read their agreement and
see how much in control they are. How much information they want from
you, including your SS#(talk about invasion of privacy! Aren't
these some of the reasons why they were busted up years ago? Most saw
them as a threat to free enterprise.
Cannot believe Apple teamed up
with such a rough company. You can bet your last dollar they are
screaming at Apple to do something about the obvious popularity of
the unlock program. It is very legal to do and they know it. If ATTs
service were good and fair, they would not need to say a word. We
would all use it. That is the genius of free enterprise, the consumer
decides which carrier to use, not the other way around. You can bet
all carriers would compete in a most fair manner to win your
patronage. You are king and decide the future of Apple and ATT not
them deciding our future.
If only Nokia, Samsung, Sony and others
would give them a run for their money. Apple and ATT would not behave
this way. Competition is always best for us the consumer. Without the
consumer Apple & ATT would not exist. There are many examples of
trying to lock the consumer out. Which history proves, only results
in bad PR for everyone involved. It takes years to get rid of a bad
taste in everyone's mouth. That is precisely the reason the ATT name
was retired for such a long while, before they started the "New ATT"
with Apple. Those who fail to recognize history are destined to
repeat the same mistakes. Will they never learn?
Aren't we are supposed to be living in a free society? Free
societies use "laissez faire economics" to do business. In other
words, free enterprise. Corporate Apple sells a product, consumer
buys product and decides how they want to use it. They may choose to
use it as a doorstop or a phone. It is ridiculous to think I am
barred from using my phone however I want, as long as it does not
encroach on another.
If it happens to not fit in the "box" that Apple
thinks it should, but the consumer does, shouldn't they change their attitude (agreements)? What ever happened to the philosophy the customer is always right?
The consumer will decide the best course of
action for the product, but the company better listen to the consumer
or there will be a huge backlash. It happens with every business. ATT
is an outstanding example of a company that tries to do the opposite
of the free enterprise market philosophy. They simply don't care
about the consumer, but do care about total control over the consumer
the way "they think is best." ATT would like to change the name to
iControl, not iphone. If you have any doubt, read their agreement and
see how much in control they are. How much information they want from
you, including your SS#(talk about invasion of privacy! Aren't
these some of the reasons why they were busted up years ago? Most saw
them as a threat to free enterprise.
Cannot believe Apple teamed up
with such a rough company. You can bet your last dollar they are
screaming at Apple to do something about the obvious popularity of
the unlock program. It is very legal to do and they know it. If ATTs
service were good and fair, they would not need to say a word. We
would all use it. That is the genius of free enterprise, the consumer
decides which carrier to use, not the other way around. You can bet
all carriers would compete in a most fair manner to win your
patronage. You are king and decide the future of Apple and ATT not
them deciding our future.
If only Nokia, Samsung, Sony and others
would give them a run for their money. Apple and ATT would not behave
this way. Competition is always best for us the consumer. Without the
consumer Apple & ATT would not exist. There are many examples of
trying to lock the consumer out. Which history proves, only results
in bad PR for everyone involved. It takes years to get rid of a bad
taste in everyone's mouth. That is precisely the reason the ATT name
was retired for such a long while, before they started the "New ATT"
with Apple. Those who fail to recognize history are destined to
repeat the same mistakes. Will they never learn?
Anyone is free to not agree to the license agreement and not use the software.
As stated above, use your own software and I doubt it would be an issue.
If you wish, you can contact Apple and attempt to negotiate a new license agreement that is satisfactory to both parties.
I doubt they would listen, but that avenue is always an option.
And if that is unsatisfactory to you, you do not have to purchase their product.
1. Unlocking an iPhone involved a firmware upgrade.
2. Firmware upgrades are notoriously difficult.
3. It is quite possible that the process of unlocking an iPhone has damaged it. Evidence for this is the fact that we have reports that trying to relock the iPhone has either not worked, or bricked the iPhone. Apple was not involved in this in any way.
4. Apple had no obligation at all to test their latest upgrade with iPhones that had their firmware modified by the user. However, they did test, and they noticed that the result could be a bricked iPhone.
5. The iPhone updater explicitly warns not to use the upgrade if you have unlocked the phone. If you proceed with the upgrade after unlocking, and anything goes wrong, it is entirely your own fault. It is your choice: Don't unlock and get iPhone updates. Unlock and do without iPhone updates. Unlock and try to relock, and the risk is obviously your own, since it is in no way supported by Apple.
The thread title is completely off. Unlocking an iPhone is entirely legal to do. However, Apple has no obligation to make sure that it works, and they have no obligation towards you to make sure that any upgrades work with an unlocked phone. As soon as you do a firmware upgrade, you are on your own.
2. Firmware upgrades are notoriously difficult.
3. It is quite possible that the process of unlocking an iPhone has damaged it. Evidence for this is the fact that we have reports that trying to relock the iPhone has either not worked, or bricked the iPhone. Apple was not involved in this in any way.
4. Apple had no obligation at all to test their latest upgrade with iPhones that had their firmware modified by the user. However, they did test, and they noticed that the result could be a bricked iPhone.
5. The iPhone updater explicitly warns not to use the upgrade if you have unlocked the phone. If you proceed with the upgrade after unlocking, and anything goes wrong, it is entirely your own fault. It is your choice: Don't unlock and get iPhone updates. Unlock and do without iPhone updates. Unlock and try to relock, and the risk is obviously your own, since it is in no way supported by Apple.
The thread title is completely off. Unlocking an iPhone is entirely legal to do. However, Apple has no obligation to make sure that it works, and they have no obligation towards you to make sure that any upgrades work with an unlocked phone. As soon as you do a firmware upgrade, you are on your own.
That "philosophy" has never meant what you think it means.
Just think about it for a second: If you, as a customer, have a discussion with an Apple engineer about technical details of the iPhone, who do you think is right? Hint: It's not you.
"The customer is always right" is often used in service industries, where you, the customer, get what you want, and you pay for it. You go to the hairdresser, you ask for a hairstyle that absolutely doesn't fit you, and you want your hair coloured green. In that case, the customer is always right, you pay money for your haircut even if it makes you look like an idiot. Doesn't hurt the hairdresser; he gets your money, and he isn't the one that people laugh about.
The rule for sales people is: You can't win an argument with a customer, because if you win the argument, he or she won't buy your product, so you lose. So you try to avoid disagreement. On the other hand, there are plenty of people that you don't actually want as customers, so you walk away from them.
If you want to unlock your iPhone, then Apple doesn't want you as a customer. There are plenty of phones everywhere, so you will be able to find another one. Apple doesn't mind. Apple expects 99 percent of all phone customers not to buy an iPhone, and people who want to unlock the iPhone are included in that 99 percent.
The idea of confirming your opinion is never considered a poor idea. But has everyone gone so mad on these forums that no one ever listens, and rather just talks over each other?
This is going no where. Stop now, and lets waste our worries elsewhere.
This is going no where. Stop now, and lets waste our worries elsewhere.