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In general I would agree to let parents parent, but there is a limit. Even great parents have limitations when there is overwhelming pressure from the environment. They can't hover over their developing kids 24/7 making all their decisions for them. The only other possibility is to leave the environment completely in search of a better one. But that is impractical for many reasons not to mention that a better environment may not exist. And when that extreme environmental pressure is extremely destructive, that's when the parent truly needs help.
This is likely a law initiated by parents themselves (possibly in response to research done by those like Jonathan Haidt). Some changes have to be made together in order to be practical.
So it should be up to the parent as to whether this law is to apply to their child or not?
 
So on one side you have the wellbeing of kids and by extension that of their parents, families, friends and society at large.

On the other side you’ve got the profits of gun manufacturers, tobacco companies, the alcohol industry, and tech billionaires.

It’s really not a tough choice for me tbh
Guns, tobacco, and alcohol definitely should have age checks when you buy them.

Having ID checks on social media is different though because it threatens an adult's right to anonymity (which is protected by the US constitution, I don't know much about Australian law other than it's Westminster with an elected upper house) and it puts their sensitive data at risk.
Better way to do this would be to codify parental controls and/or device-level age checks.
 
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Popular maybe in that it had more supporters than the Voice.

But it's does also have a sizable number of people who are concerned, especially if you step outside the Daily Telegraph/Herald Sun crowd. Some of the concerns about how this was rammed through parliament in a single day, with 1 hour of senate committee oversight that igored everyone.

Firstly, I am in the camp that even the busiest parents won't give children cars and say "you can drive unsupervised but only on the main roads" then put in photo-ID checks at all the side streets to make sure only adults enter. Why not "dumb phones to 16"?

Secondly I believe that this is false safety for lazy parents. The kid will still be blasted by toxic algorithms when they hit 16, except now without resiliance. Wouldn't a safer way have been the harder path, making Zuck and Musk and the rest behave better? If something goes wrong and the kid bypassing the ban gets into trouble, this then makes them less likely to ask a trusted adult for help.

It is a game of whack-a-mole, already U16s are moving to other platforms.

The scope creep is quite concerning too, with some platforms being added barely a week out, and we know as Inman-Grant and Wells have both said that search engines and more are in the aim in tranche 2.

The videos, and posts, and other toxic stuff is still there, still readable, but only to people who don't sign in. Where there were parental controls for those who cared to raise their children and not have Albo, Inman-Grant, and Wells do it, they now have nothing.

This was rushed legislation, this is open-ended legislation, this is bad legislation.
You've highlighted so many reasons as to why this legislation is needed, which I don't think was your intent, but here it is.
 
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The internet has been a net negative on society. I don’t think any amount of “good” will ever outweigh the hateful, mean spirited, disgusting, and brain-dead videos, photos and posts that are floating on the internet.

The internet is the worst of humanity, that’s why people celebrate when there is a single good thing that happens online.
 
Hell, guns laws dont keep guns out of the hands of criminals, do they?but yeah let’s go from the ridiculous to the sublime because alcohol and tobacco laws are 100% effective in keeping tobacco and liquor out of the hands of minors.
You're speaking in absolutes, which is in itself flawed.
 
The internet has been a net negative on society. I don’t think any amount of “good” will ever outweigh the hateful, mean spirited, disgusting, and brain-dead videos, photos and posts that are floating on the internet.

The internet is the worst of humanity, that’s why people celebrate when there is a single good thing that happens online.
The inherent problem with the internet is that no one could ever take responsibility over it. I have wonderful memories of the dawn of internet in the mid-90s and the optimism surrounding it, yet it was clear even back that, without self control, you could lose hours just scrolling through something as trivial as message boards.
 
The internet has been a net negative on society. I don’t think any amount of “good” will ever outweigh the hateful, mean spirited, disgusting, and brain-dead videos, photos and posts that are floating on the internet.

The internet is the worst of humanity, that’s why people celebrate when there is a single good thing that happens online.
I have to agree with you wholeheartedly. Sadly, like anything which could prove infinitely useful to humanity, it ends up being politicised, weaponised or deamonised.
 
Having ID checks on social media is different though because it threatens an adult's right to anonymity (which is protected by the US constitution)
What is this threat? That another human being is drawing a visual check between a photo ID and the details entered through text?

Is this really so stressful and damaging to your anonymity that you’re willing to forgo identity checks?
 
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The internet has been a net negative on society. I don’t think any amount of “good” will ever outweigh the hateful, mean spirited, disgusting, and brain-dead videos, photos and posts that are floating on the internet.

The internet is the worst of humanity, that’s why people celebrate when there is a single good thing that happens online.
This statement is myopic. It falls under the umbrella of using a tool for good or bad. The internet has heralded many opportunities and has freed the people from the shackles of being tethered to a desktop.

It’s so important some claim without a smartphone you cease to function, a smartphone depends the internet.

There are many things I’d like to put back in the bottle but many of these things do t enhance society the way the internet has.
 
It's called parenting. If you feel you're not able to parent your own kids, perhaps you're not doing a good job. Mine are great, and have ZERO interest in social media.
You've hit the nail on the head, and added to the argument as to why the legislation is needed; not all parents are as good at protecting their kids from toxicity as you are.
 
The internet has been a net negative on society. I don’t think any amount of “good” will ever outweigh the hateful, mean spirited, disgusting, and brain-dead videos, photos and posts that are floating on the internet.

The internet is the worst of humanity, that’s why people celebrate when there is a single good thing that happens online.
It's usually not the technology, it's how it's used that is the problem. The internet has been positive in some ways, but negative in others. Extremism and the spread of it has always existed though (the KKK for example)
 
Apps will also need to prevent new signups from users under the age of 16, and there is a one-year transition period before penalties will begin.
And, it never ends, the penalties. ;)
 
What is this threat? That another human being is drawing a visual check between a photo ID and the details entered through text?

Is this really so stressful and damaging to your anonymity that you’re willing to forgo identity checks?
Because to quote Justice John Paul Stevens.
“Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. . . . It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation . . . at the hand of an intolerant society.”
 
You've highlighted so many reasons as to why this legislation is needed, which I don't think was your intent, but here it is.
Yes, I am aware of the talking points from both sides of this argument. Many lazy parents though consider this will be a set-and-forget panacea, when it's not.

I still feel "Dumb phones to 16" was the better option.
 
Just responding to points in kind. Parenting should be left to the parents. What’s next? A law limiting the number of hours on video games or watching tv?
The free world, the bullies, the criminals, the predators, the baddies.. the list of reasons why we have laws to protect people is because humanity, inevitably, circumvent the very things that are there to help protect us. When people can't do that at free will, someone needs to step in.

I don't like that this has turned into a 'bad parents' vs 'good parents' argument, because the definition of a 'good parent' is fluid based on who you ask. If you ask a toothless redneck what makes a good parent they'd probably say giving a kid a gun and their own ute (pickup truck). It's all relative.

This legislation is about providing a guardrail to the addiction that is social media, a toxic environment that some adults are even able to cope with, so how can we possibly expect a kid to cope with it? Moreover, we should not be expecting a kid to have to cope with it.

We've all heard of kids who have had to grow up quick, and, sadly, those kids are robbed of their childhood. I believe any guardrail which helps parents protect their kids from toxicity, bullies, predators, scams and criminals is a win.
 
I also think that straight up deleting kids' accounts is a weird idea, just put them on freeze until they reach of age at least.
Why? Unless you work for a social media company and want to mine data from kids who had accounts before this legislation was brought in, there is literally no valid reason for keeping the accounts.
 
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Then the law should only apply to bad parents.
Again, the point is missed. Think of bad parents as another hole in the swiss cheese; when all the holes line up, the problem progresses. This legislation is another layer trying to stop the holes from lining up.
 
Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. . . . It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation . . . at the hand of an intolerant society.
Reality check: it’s a process to identity that you’re a real human being and meet the requirement age of that platform.

I’d also add that, if you are indeed one these “unpopular individuals” who is afraid of “retaliation”, then I’d be asking questions about how the ID-checking system knows about that time you burnt dinner.
 
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