How Apple is Helping Apps Comply With Australia's Social Media Ban for Kids

[Boeingfan]

I also think that straight up deleting kids' accounts is a weird idea, just put them on freeze until they reach of age at least.

What's weird about it? Delete it and move on.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

Why? Unless you work for a social media company and want to mine data from kids who had accounts before this legislation was brought in, there is literally no valid reason for keeping the accounts.

Because putting myself in the shoes of the kids, I would be pissed if all my stuff got nuked, especially if this were to spread to platforms like Steam. Maybe make it so parents have to give consent in order to let the account remain in limbo.

 

[amancalledsun]

Yes, I am aware of the talking points from both sides of this argument. Many lazy parents though consider this will be a set-and-forget panacea, when it's not.

I still feel "Dumb phones to 16" was the better option.

You missed another better option: ban social media entirely. The fact that one of the most valuable companies in the world made its fortune on the backs of digitally stalking people and turning a blind eye to misinformation, racism, and bullying while taking ZERO responsibility should be enough to have it shut down. Not just for kids.

 

[amancalledsun]

Because putting myself in the shoes of the kids, I would be pissed if all my stuff got nuked, especially if this were to spread to platforms like Steam. Maybe make it so parents have to give consent in order to let the account remain in limbo.

There is no stuff; it's digital data.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

There is no stuff; it's digital data.

In the case of Steam, it's games, purchases, and save data for them.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

In the case of Steam, it's games, purchases, and save data for them.

Correct: and those are data.

 

[Boeingfan]

Yes, I am aware of the talking points from both sides of this argument. Many lazy parents though consider this will be a set-and-forget panacea, when it's not.

I still feel "Dumb phones to 16" was the better option.

You are right, some parents will do just that, which is another reason why this legislation is necessary; it is designed to stop the toxicity and bullying reaching kids who are with parents that don't provide protection.

Also, this isn't about phones, it's about social media. Nobody has said that they can't have a phone.

 

[amancalledsun]

In the case of Steam, it's games, purchases, and save data for them.

You sound like the perfect candidate to go back to physical media 🤣

 

[I7guy]

Again, the point is missed. Think of bad parents as another hole in the swiss cheese; when all the holes line up, the problem progresses. This legislation is another layer trying to stop the holes from lining up.

The point is disagreed with. IMO, this is overreach. No different than setting a law to limit television to 3 hours a day.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

Correct: and those are data.

If I were a 14 year old who pumped hours into something like Half-Life or TF2 and all that data got deleted, I would be very pissed. (Speaking as someone who used to be a 14 year old doing similar stuff)

 

[Boeingfan]

Because putting myself in the shoes of the kids, I would be pissed if all my stuff got nuked, especially if this were to spread to platforms like Steam. Maybe make it so parents have to give consent in order to let the account remain in limbo.

Kids get pissed when they're grounded. This isn't about stopping kids being pissed. It's OK for kids to get pissed, then they go to their room and wake up to themselves.

 

[I7guy]

The free world, the bullies, the criminals, the predators, the baddies.. the list of reasons why we have laws to protect people is because humanity, inevitably, circumvent the very things that are there to help protect us. When people can't do that at free will, someone needs to step in.

I don't like that this has turned into a 'bad parents' vs 'good parents' argument, because the definition of a 'good parent' is fluid based on who you ask. If you ask a toothless redneck what makes a good parent they'd probably say giving a kid a gun and their own ute (pickup truck). It's all relative.

This legislation is about providing a guardrail to the addiction that is social media, a toxic environment that some adults are even able to cope with, so how can we possibly expect a kid to cope with it? Moreover, we should not be expecting a kid to have to cope with it.

We've all heard of kids who have had to grow up quick, and, sadly, those kids are robbed of their childhood. I believe any guardrail which helps parents protect their kids from toxicity, bullies, predators, scams and criminals is a win.

All of that stuff is bad, but that doesn’t imo excuse government overreach into the purview of the parents. All this law is going to do is make it more difficult but not impossible to bypass.

The above is just a straw man.

 

[JaydenA]

...
This legislation is about providing a guardrail to the addiction that is social media, a toxic environment that some adults are even (un?)able to cope with, so how can we possibly expect a kid to cope with it?
...

So I'd have to ask you, why are not Albo, Wells, and Inman-Grant not regulating the algorithm, the privacy violations, the person as a product of it, the dopamine-engagement of endless scroll?

Let alone even thinking of the dangers of unfettered AI to young minds, which they seem to have forgotten about as Ayres is all full steam ahead and Jim from Accounting thinks will be an economic powerhouse?

"because they know it's useless, rushed legislation, but want to be seen by the lazy parents to be doing something"

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

Kids get pissed when they're grounded. This isn't about stopping kids being pissed. It's OK for kids to get pissed, then they go to their room and wake up to themselves.

Yes, but if the kid played TF2 or Half-Life and the parents were fine with it, why should that save data be deleted?

 

[Boeingfan]

The point is disagreed with. IMO, this is overreach. No different than setting a law to limit television to 3 hours a day.

You're not using a fair comparison. TV doesn't allow bullies, criminals, predators et al access to a kid. If those aspects were on TV, then there is separate strict legislation to deal with that.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

If I were a 14 year old who pumped hours into something like Half-Life or TF2 and all that data got deleted, I would be very pissed. (Speaking as someone who used to be a 14 year old doing similar stuff)

I would instead be teaching a child that this ‘stuff’ you refer to - and that is indeed a phrase they would likely use - is in fact not real. They are products designed to keep you engaged in a particular software.

Teaching children the value of money is very important, and the sooner they learn that these products are not tangible and therefore not guaranteed to always be present, the better.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

You sound like the perfect candidate to go back to physical media 🤣

Oh I've been trying! Buying physical releases of console games and planning on getting a Blu-Ray of a movie when it releases.

 

[Boeingfan]

So I'd have to ask you, why are not Albo, Wells, and Inman-Grant not regulating the algorithm, the privacy violations, the person as a product of it, the dopamine-engagement of endless scroll?

Let alone even thinking of the dangers of unfettered AI to young minds, which they seem to have forgotten about as Ayres is all full steam ahead and Jim from Accounting thinks will be an economic powerhouse?

"because they know it's useless, rushed legislation, but want to be seen by the lazy parents to be doing something"

Forget the parents, this is for the kids, to allow them the buffer which stops 'the dopamine-engagement of endless scroll'. The target is kids! Rushed, not rushed, makes no difference. It is a step in the right direction to provide barriers where they have otherwise failed.

 

[amancalledsun]

I have to agree with you wholeheartedly. Sadly, like anything which could prove infinitely useful to humanity, it ends up being politicised, weaponised or deamonised.

So....the wheel has been politicized now? Is it liberal or conservative?

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Forget the parents, this is for the kids, to allow them the buffer which stops 'the dopamine-engagement of endless scroll'. The target is kids! Rushed, not rushed, makes no difference. It is a step in the right direction to provide barriers where they have otherwise failed.

Yep. Everything is engineered is a specific way and children are primary targets.

 

[Boeingfan]

Yes, but if the kid played TF2 or Half-Life and the parents were fine with it, why should that save data be deleted?

Because they're just games.

 

[I7guy]

You're not using a fair comparison. TV doesn't allow bullies, criminals, predators et al access to a kid. If those aspects were on TV, then there is separate strict legislation to deal with that.

This is a strawman. And for the record tvs has adverts which influence weaker minds.

Even still the answer is parenting not government legislation.

And even though there is no 2A in Australia there is a thriving black market for guns.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

I would instead be teaching a child that this ‘stuff’ you refer to - and that is indeed a phrase they would likely use - is in fact not real. They are products designed to keep you engaged in a particular software.

Teaching children the value of money is very important, and the sooner they learn that these products are not tangible and therefore not guaranteed to always be present, the better.

I suppose it would better for a parent to create a Steam account anyhow. (I used to use my dad's as a kid)

 

[Boeingfan]

So....the wheel has been politicized now? Is it liberal or conservative?

Of course it has been politicised, anything to do with government is politicised, naturally. There will be detractors of this legislation who will disagree with it simply because of the party implementing it, rather than its own merits.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

I suppose it would better for a parent to create a Steam account anyhow. (I used to use my dad's as a kid)

Exactly, take ownership over the situation until they’re old enough to be responsible and independent enough with their time and money. It’s just common sense, really, and this applies to any aspect of technology.