How do you clean the new MBP keyboard if it boots?

asiga

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Original poster
Nov 4, 2012
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I'm finding the "new boot style" more annoying with the time. I disabled Autoboot with the nvram, but... if you press any key... it boots!!!

Does this mean you cannot clean the keyboard without the MBP booting?

Apple is really walking backwards in usability... this boot style is as anti-Mac as removing MagSafe.
 

SDColorado

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Nov 6, 2011
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Highlands Ranch, CO
Downloading “Keyboard Cleaner” which disables keyboard input and blackens your screen may be the best bet for dealing with this.

You can hit command+q to quit when done.

That behavior is something that should have been a user selectable option though
 

IngerMan

macrumors 68000
Feb 21, 2011
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Michigan
I just use a thin microfiber cloth and run it side to side across the keys, watching my screen go a little crazy for a moment but as long as mail is not open I am not worried sending any cryptic messages.

I have used compressed air once or twice. Apple has a How To Guide. Does not say anything about shutting it off.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662
 
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asiga

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Original poster
Nov 4, 2012
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Downloading “Keyboard Cleaner” which disables keyboard input and blackens your screen may be the best bet for dealing with this.

You can hit command+q to quit when done.

That behavior is something that should have been a user selectable option though
Didn't know of that app! It's weird to see developers providing apps and workarounds for all the things that Apple insists in breaking again and again. In the past, my "Keyboard Cleaner app" was just shutdown the MacBook, and clean it. No software needed. Just proper design. Now we need an app...

Anyway, thanks for telling, didn't know of that app.
 

robvas

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Mar 29, 2009
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You don't need an app or need to shut the computer off. How silly are people going to get?

Just turn the screensaver on or lock the screen.
 
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SDColorado

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Nov 6, 2011
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You don't need an app or need to shut the computer off. How silly are people going to get?

Just turn the screensaver on or lock the screen.
Lockscreen will work. All the keyboard input will go into the password box, but no big deal. I haven't found Screen Saver to work, because as soon as you touch a key it disables the screensaver. Am I missing a setting that disables that?
 

LogicalApex

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Nov 13, 2015
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As noted above, just clean with the lock screen up.

I am religious about keeping computers clean and the auto wake on keyboard, trackpad, etc press drove me nuts for the first 15 minutes. Then I just ignored it and cleaned at the lock screen and all is well. I then hit escape to force the machine to turn back off so I can properly clean the screen.
 

asiga

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Nov 4, 2012
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You don't need an app or need to shut the computer off. How silly are people going to get?

Just turn the screensaver on or lock the screen.
The silly ones are not the users, but current Apple designers: being forced to hear the dong-dong-dong key press bell just because Apple trashed the proper boot behavior of the MBP in order to make you feel your MBP is an iPad is not just silly, but poor design. Change is only good when you improve (ie: invent the MagSafe, create a GPGPU standard such as OpenCL, etc...). OTOH when the change provides no advantage but just loss of usability, it’s bad (like the new MBP boot).
 

asiga

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Nov 4, 2012
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Just tried to clean the new MacBook Pro and the new boot firmware is a nightmare: If you shutdown it, it boots when you press a key. And then, because it booted, if you close the lid for cleaning the exterior, it sleeps (bang! a several-GB dump into the SSD just for cleaning it). And then wakes up when opening the lid again. It is a MacBook Pro, but behaves like a MacBook Dumb. I'd like to have a long conversation with the team who trashed^H^H^H^H^H^H^H designed the new boot firmware.

The app for cleaning the keyboard is only suitable for the keyboard: it doesn't lock the trackpad, so you are still potentially moving/erasing files with Finder while cleaning the trackpad. And of course it doesn't prevent sleeping when closing the lid for cleaning.

And then I remember how easy it was to clean my old MacBook Air: shutdown, clean the keyboard and trackpad at will, close and open the lid as many times you needed until the screen and the exterior were bright clean... with Steve Jobs, everything was easy to do. Now, it's only easy when you do what Apple wants you to do, and with the exact order of steps that Apple requires.
 

Sterkenburg

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Oct 27, 2016
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Yeah, the new "boot on key press" behavior is very annoying and to be honest I wish there was a way to turn off the machine properly. For the moment, locking the screen is the only way to clean the keyboard and trackpad without going crazy (having the password box filled by random characters does no harm). It feels awkward and dumb having to do this on a premium machine.
 
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robvas

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Just tried to clean the new MacBook Pro and the new boot firmware is a nightmare: If you shutdown it, it boots when you press a key. And then, because it booted, if you close the lid for cleaning the exterior, it sleeps (bang! a several-GB dump into the SSD just for cleaning it). And then wakes up when opening the lid again. It is a MacBook Pro, but behaves like a MacBook Dumb. I'd like to have a long conversation with the team who trashed^H^H^H^H^H^H^H designed the new boot firmware.

The app for cleaning the keyboard is only suitable for the keyboard: it doesn't lock the trackpad, so you are still potentially moving/erasing files with Finder while cleaning the trackpad. And of course it doesn't prevent sleeping when closing the lid for cleaning.

And then I remember how easy it was to clean my old MacBook Air: shutdown, clean the keyboard and trackpad at will, close and open the lid as many times you needed until the screen and the exterior were bright clean... with Steve Jobs, everything was easy to do. Now, it's only easy when you do what Apple wants you to do, and with the exact order of steps that Apple requires.
Why is your laptop so dirty? I wipe mine down once a week at the most.
 

Eerriikkoo

macrumors member
Feb 6, 2017
77
34
Clean it during locked screen or power it down and clean it without closing and reopening the lid.
 

1096bimu

macrumors 6502
Nov 7, 2017
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lock the screen and clean? why do you have to clean it while powered off? why do you ever need to keep it powered off and also open?

Apple isn't making things less usable, they are making things more usable for most people. and then a few people who have niche and/ore unreasonable requirements bubble up.

I have also wondered, if Steve Jobs was so easy to predict in what he would've liked. Why doesn't Apple just hire someone like the OP to go and predict what Steve Jobs would've done and it would be exactly as if they got Steve Jobs back.
 
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Eerriikkoo

macrumors member
Feb 6, 2017
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lock the screen and clean? why do you have to clean it while powered off? why do you ever need to keep it powered off and also open?

Apple isn't making things less usable, they are making things more usable for most people. and then a few people who have niche and/or unreasonable requirements bubble up.
Haha ok. So being able to avoid random keyboard input while running a cloth along the keys to clean it is a niche/unreasonable requirement? Please tell me how you clean the keyboard?
 

1096bimu

macrumors 6502
Nov 7, 2017
319
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Haha ok. So being able to avoid random keyboard input while running a cloth along the keys to clean it is a niche/unreasonable requirement? Please tell me how you clean the keyboard?
Yes because there is no reason to avoid random keyboard inputs as it does nothing while the screen is locked.
 

Eerriikkoo

macrumors member
Feb 6, 2017
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Yes because there is no reason to avoid random keyboard inputs as it does nothing while the screen is locked.
Well that’s true but you asked “lock the screen and clean?” As if that too was some ridiculous action to perform.
I only mentioned the powering down with open lid option because it was suggested that you can’t keep the laptop from rebooting when you have it shut down and want to clean the keyboard.
Anyway calling it niche and unreasonable was a little harsh wasn’t it. It wasn’t as if someone was asking for a native cleaning mode or anything. Also a little niche is to be expected, this is not the frontpage of the internet.
 

CPTmom2wp

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Sep 10, 2014
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I have to wonder about all those Apple employees who are using MBP. Surely they have the same problems we discuss here and surely they share their complaints/concerns with the engineers. Or perhaps they know secrets that they aren't sharing......?!?o_O
 
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asiga

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 4, 2012
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Yesterday I was reading an Apple official page telling to shutdown the MacBook Pro before cleaning the keyboard. I cannot find the page today, but it was there yesterday, I promise. And it was applicable to new MacBook Pros.

The surprising thing is that the document told an impossible thing to do: it’s not possible to clean the keyboard with the MBP shutdown, because the (broken) firmware boots the machine.

I’ve sent feedback to Apple. For this nonsense boot on any key press, and for the MagSafe removal (which it’s not a matter of safety only, but comfort: you cannot plug/unplug the MBP with one hand anymore, you need both hands, thanks to this removal).
 

Eerriikkoo

macrumors member
Feb 6, 2017
77
34
Yesterday I was reading an Apple official page telling to shutdown the MacBook Pro before cleaning the keyboard. I cannot find the page today, but it was there yesterday, I promise. And it was applicable to new MacBook Pros.

The surprising thing is that the document told an impossible thing to do: it’s not possible to clean the keyboard with the MBP shutdown, because the (broken) firmware boots the machine.

I’ve sent feedback to Apple. For this nonsense boot on any key press, and for the MagSafe removal (which it’s not a matter of safety only, but comfort: you cannot plug/unplug the MBP with one hand anymore, you need both hands, thanks to this removal).
I never noticed my macbook pro 2016 rebooting with any key when shut down. Always need to press the touch id/ power button. Is this after modifying the NVRAM to disable autoboot when opening the lid?
 

asiga

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 4, 2012
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I never noticed my macbook pro 2016 rebooting with any key when shut down. Always need to press the touch id/ power button. Is this after modifying the NVRAM to disable autoboot when opening the lid?
It happens no matter if you enable or disable the nvram autoboot setting. Maybe they added this “feature” in 2018 MBPs.
 

LogicalApex

macrumors 6502a
Nov 13, 2015
514
463
Clean it during locked screen or power it down and clean it without closing and reopening the lid.
The best way to clean the machine IMHO is to clean it at the lock screen as I noted earlier and when you are ready to clean the screen hit the esc key on the TB to turn the machine back off and clean the screen. Easy and no real problem. The only extra "step" is hitting esc.

I guess you could avoid all of this and clean when the battery is flat, but that seem absurd.

The surprising thing is that the document told an impossible thing to do: it’s not possible to clean the keyboard with the MBP shutdown, because the (broken) firmware boots the machine.
You would need to share this document. I have owned the 2018 MBP since a few days after launch and Apple notes on their support site that the 2018 MBP is powered on via the Keyboard being pressed, lid opened, or trackpad being clicked. So there is nothing broken here...

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201150

With SSDs making sleep and hibernation so fast there is no real reason for users to shutdown their computers anymore. Microsoft even moved Windows 10 to such a model that even when a user shutdown the OS just hibernates the kernel and resumes it next boot and as long ago as Windows 7 Microsoft wanted users to use "Sleep" instead of "Shutdown".

https://www.howtogeek.com/243901/the-pros-and-cons-of-windows-10s-fast-startup-mode/

With the new MBP a user essentially closes the laptop to stop working and open it to start. if you leave it on your desk and it goes to sleep clicking anything to wake it up gets it going again. Effectively, the machine always acts as if it is sleep and the SSD makes even a cold boot extremely fast.

The ONLY time you run into an issue is cleaning it machine and as I noted earlier that only has 1 extra click to be effective. You don't even need to hit "lock computer" you can just close the machine and start your cleaning on the outer shell and once you open the MBP it will be locked and ready for KB cleaning...

I should know I clean my computer multiple times a week because I'm OCD for keeping my computers clean...

It happens no matter if you enable or disable the nvram autoboot setting. Maybe they added this “feature” in 2018 MBPs.
Yes, see my reply above...
 

asiga

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 4, 2012
850
1,060
There are good reasons to prefer shutdown to sleep, and for wishing to avoid the several-GB dump file into the SSD each time it sleeps. Of course, users that prefer the iOS way of doing things, will find this new MBP behavior more familiar, as it makes the MBP feel "more iPad" and "less Mac". It seems pretty obvious that all these changes, trying to make it difficult that you leave your MBP in shutdown status, follow the strategy of ensuring that the iPad is the Mac of the future. I won't be an Apple user anymore when that time arrives, as with this new MBP I'm installing only software that is available in other OSs in addition to MacOS, and I'm preparing everything for being ready when the moment of no return arrives (and it will). Hopefully, with the way I'm installing software and data in my new MBP, my switch away from Apple will be so easy as when Apple moved from PPC to Intel: They were already building OSX in both CPUs from the beginning. I'm planning (and already executing) something similar, from today on.
 

LogicalApex

macrumors 6502a
Nov 13, 2015
514
463
There are good reasons to prefer shutdown to sleep, and for wishing to avoid the several-GB dump file into the SSD each time it sleeps. Of course, users that prefer the iOS way of doing things, will find this new MBP behavior more familiar, as it makes the MBP feel "more iPad" and "less Mac". It seems pretty obvious that all these changes, trying to make it difficult that you leave your MBP in shutdown status, follow the strategy of ensuring that the iPad is the Mac of the future. I won't be an Apple user anymore when that time arrives, as with this new MBP I'm installing only software that is available in other OSs in addition to MacOS, and I'm preparing everything for being ready when the moment of no return arrives (and it will). Hopefully, with the way I'm installing software and data in my new MBP, my switch away from Apple will be so easy as when Apple moved from PPC to Intel: They were already building OSX in both CPUs from the beginning. I'm planning (and already executing) something similar, from today on.
I'm not sure where you're going with here... As I mentioned earlier the technology industry in general has moved away form Shutdown and to preferring Sleep. This change actually started many years ago well before we were knee deep in the Phone Era. It makes a lot of sense as users don't really need to micromanage their technology as much anymore.

We have lots of RAM and Operating Systems have gotten extremely good at memory management. Including smartly paging to disk and preloading application data. Impressive hardware enhancements have arrived as well like SSDs and deep sleep support in CPUs and other components. Windows 10, as I mentioned earlier, doesn't even shutdown its Kernel anymore and instead hibernates it and resumes it even when a user clicks "shutdown".

Also, worrying about wear on an SSD is nonsense now. They'll handle far more writes than almost any user can realistically push through them.

If a user needs to explicitly force the system to shutdown, such as not needing to use it for a long time and wanting to preserve the battery life, they can still do so. Nothing in the new MBP changes prevent this.

Shutdown the MBP, close the lid, put it away and it will say off and in a true shutdown state...

But that should be a rare thing as with 30 days of battery life in sleep mode users are able to appreciate the new models benefits.

There may be reasons to be unhappy with how computing is changing, but this isn't one of them.
 
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