How Do You Justify Retina?

[SarcasticJoe]

It is amazing how everybody starts salvating when a benchmark post high sequential speeds.

The sequential read speeds are the same speeds regular SATA SSD's are also talked about. Regular SATA SSD's also fall considerably behind their sequential read speeds in random read and write speeds.

To say they pale in comparison is just laughable.

If you're going to complain about the PCIe SSD's Apple is putting into their machines at least actually use them in the benchmarks you use as evidence to your claims...

The point of PCIe SSD's is that the SATA3-port literally doesn't support anything faster than about 560MB/s, something current day SSD's achieve in both sequential write and read (in the case of the Mac Pro's 1TB one it's more than twice that) while PCI leaves a LOT of space for improvement. Simply put: SATA3 is a bottleneck and it's fairly obvious that as time goes on there's going to be faster PCIe SSD's coming out that will probably surpass that limit even in random reads and writes.

Contrary to what the general public thinks, the PCIe SSD's Apple is selling are user replaceable.

 

[TheEnthusiast]

I agree with some of your arguments, especially the point about SSD speeds; it's the same thing I've been telling people. The numbers only look good on paper. However, based on how you tried to spin it, most people would rather by new than go through the lottery of buying a used product. If something's wrong with a new product, a trip to Apple solves the problem. With used, there's more hassle. The retina screen itself is also quite remarkable for daily use. Anyone who has seen one should be able to admit this. Then there's the subconscious feeling of buying "old" hardware. Most people opt for the "latest and greatest." Yes, I am aware of how the technologies compare.

There are just certain connotations with buying used that most people would rather avoid, if possible.

 

[agaskew]

Well thanks to everyone who replied and provided input.

I am still on the fence and not sure what I plan to do.

I have an iMac as well that I seem to not be using as much lately simply because I don't like being tied to my desk, but I haven't been able to tell myself to sell it not knowing if I will miss having that larger screen if I need it. Seems like a waste to keep it.

I think my lifestyle is now leaning more towards a Macbook Pro and nothing else. Maybe I'll have to sell off what I have and buy a maxed out rMBP. Who knows?

It just depends what you need versus what you are prepared to pay. If you need Firewire, ethernet or CD drive built in, get a cMBP. If you need >1 TB port, ac wifi, longer battery life (debatable) or thinner profile and you have the money - buy the rMBP. The 'Retina' part does attract a price premium that may or may not be justifiable, but it is not the sole differentiator between the two machines.

 

[SVT Amateur]

My wife and I have both an early 2011 15" MBP and an early 2013 15" rMBP. The 2013 rMBP makes the 2011 one look like a brick - and although the 2013 is defintely faster, quieter, and has a better looking screen - I don't know if I would say it is worth the extra $800. But for my personal preference - I love the rMBP - and wouldn't trade it in for an older model and $800.

But, if you want the best of both worlds, you could sell your iMac, get an older model cMBP, and then just get an external display so that when you are at home and aren't mobile you get to use a bigger screen with higher resolution. We use a single Thunderbolt display as a docking station for our MBPs and it works out great for us - we have mobile computers that we can take anywhere yet we get bigger real estate when we are at home and need a desk to work on.

 

[blooperz]

I dont understand what there is to justify. If they have the money to do so most people will choose the european luxury import over an american compact car. Sure they both get you from point A to point B, but the experience will be different depending on which you choose. If you have to justify to yourself why your buying the retina, your probably not making a smart financial decision and its a case of 'what do I want rather' then 'what do I need'.

And if that's the case then perhaps what you should be justifying is whether to buy a mac at all. Pc's are better value for your money, macs are just more refined generally speaking (though there are pc's that are equally refined, if your willing to pay apple-esque prices)

 

[christarp]

To me all it takes to justify the rMBP is looking at my desktop background when it's booted and seeing how ridiculously sharp and beautiful it is.

 

[Patriks7]

Why not just get an Acer laptop for 300$, I mean it's going to do the same thing and you save even more money, right?

Different people just value different things. As a student, I decided to upgrade to the rMBP in the coming months as it solves every complaint I have with my current MBP.

It's lighter (as I commute almost 2 hours daily between home and school, every single gram helps), the battery lasts way longer (we have an older university building, where it's quite difficult to find a place to charge), and the screen is way better (if I spend so many hours a day staring at it, why not get the best?). This is easily worth the couple hundred difference for me.

 

[MCAsan]

 

[accountforit]

I dont understand what there is to justify. If they have the money to do so most people will choose the european luxury import over an american compact car. Sure they both get you from point A to point B, but the experience will be different depending on which you choose. If you have to justify to yourself why your buying the retina, your probably not making a smart financial decision and its a case of 'what do I want rather' then 'what do I need'.

And if that's the case then perhaps what you should be justifying is whether to buy a mac at all. Pc's are better value for your money, macs are just more refined generally speaking (though there are pc's that are equally refined, if your willing to pay apple-esque prices)

No offense, but if you would have read the full thread you would have noticed that I already own a few Macs, and I also stated in the OP that money is not an issue.

I am an accountant by trade so I view money differently than most people. It takes time and thought before I spend money on something I know I could actually live without. However, I am far from someone who will be broke after such a purchase which it seems you are insinuating.

 

[UBS28]

The display is beautiful compared to the old cMBP.

You don't understand how much thinner and lighter a rMBP is compared to a cMBP until you have them side by side. I just replaced my wife's 15" 2011 MBP with a 2013 15" rMBP and she is elated. No longer is her laptop a brick and it is almost as thin as my 2013 MBA (at the MBA's thickest point).

The SSD in the new rMBP's is PCIE based so it has transfer rates of 800MB/s compared to SATA's that max out at about 550MB/s (real world use probably wouldn't notice)

There are two thunderbolt ports which means you can hook a lot of high resolution monitors up to it (running two non-Thunderbolt 1440P monitors is awesome).

But if none of those things are of interest, then by all means go with a classic MBP. They are still great machines.

For $800, you can buy a 4k display to off-set this advantage?

 

[Moosebear]

It's not about "Retina" per se, it's about high resolution on any quality screen. The newer Asus Zenbooks manage almost as nice a display with only 1080p: I'd have gone with one of those but I wanted something with decent support, so I switched to Mac. The hi-res screen was a big part of the draw. Totally worth every cent.

I'm a writer, and staring all day at pixellated text was making my eyes go buggy. The sharp edges of a hi-res screen make it possible to work all day.

At some point I'll likely get a big 1440 external monitor. I love hi-res and I'd never go back.

 

[TheEnthusiast]

And it looks as if the thread has reached the point where people start taking things personally and resort to making personal attacks. A common outcome of threads like these, if I may add.

 

[brdeveloper]

Surely the screen is a good justification, but bearing in mind the quality control issues seen on retina displays, I'd only suggest buying a rMBP if and only if you have a physical Apple Store nearby, so you can return it until you get a good display.

Otherwise, I'd get a cMBP or a workstation PC, like Lenovo W-Series, Dell XPS/Precision and so on.

 

[Marauder2]

I first wanted a MBP a couple years ago and thought of getting the cMBP and upgrading myself. The refurbished store had/has 13", i5, 4gb ram, 500 gb hard drive for $1000 and a 13", i7, 8gb ram and a 750 gb hard drive for $1269. With either, I would have replaced the disk drive with an ssd and gone up to 8-16gb ram. But when I went to play with these models in store, I just wasn't satisfied. They were thick and clunky with poor screens (all my opinions) for the money I was intending the spend.

This year, the late 2013 13" rMBP, i5, 8gb ram, 256gb ssd came up for $1300 in the refurbished store and I ordered it right away. To me, the small size, light weight, amazing screen, great battery life and the faster ssd justified the price for me.

This won't be the same for everyone of course. For you, OP, maybe get a Macbook Air for portability and your iMac for home. Or sell the iMac and get a good external monitor to pair up with a decked out cMBP. I get the impression you really aren't convinced about the benefits of the rMBP over the cMBP for the price, so follow your gut!

 

[heisenberg123]

too me its not worth the extra $800, I have never once looked at my screen and said "that looks horrible" actually anyone who is use to using a low end laptop like Acer or Dell and seen my cMBP they usually comment on how amzaing it looks.

 

[paulrbeers]

For $800, you can buy a 4k display to off-set this advantage?

How does a 4K display off set reduction in weight, the high dpi BUILT in display, faster internal storage?

If you are going to use a rMBP as a desktop then sure it off sets the advantage, but if using it as a laptop it doesn't get you anything....

Oh and the 4K display can only be used at 30hz on the rMBP so it doesn't really help you from a desktop standpoint.

 

[kastorff]

Screw all other reasoning. The retina screen is worth it. It's kinda like one of those 6 way adjustable seats. No way to justify it purely from a cost standpoint, but once you've lived with one, you don't want anything else.

 

[roadbloc]

I don't justify it. I'm perfectly fine with non-retina displays.

 

[UBS28]

How does a 4K display off set reduction in weight, the high dpi BUILT in display, faster internal storage?

If you are going to use a rMBP as a desktop then sure it off sets the advantage, but if using it as a laptop it doesn't get you anything....

Oh and the 4K display can only be used at 30hz on the rMBP so it doesn't really help you from a desktop standpoint.

4k display is better due to screen real estate while being sharp. Having the regular screen on the go and then use the 4k display at home is a pretty good solution. (if you don't got space on your desk for a nice external display, then I suppose retina wins )

Most people won't notice any difference in speed between a SATA SSD and a PCI-e SSD.

The weight is also not an issue. You get expandability in return for it.

 

[brdeveloper]

Oh and the 4K display can only be used at 30hz on the rMBP so it doesn't really help you from a desktop standpoint.

We are only at the beginning of the 4K era. Hopefully there will be some lossless compression mechanism allowing even previous Macs to handle 4K displays at 60Hz. Other method would be applying lossy compression. This would be useful for watching videos or gaming, allowing even higher refresh rates.

 

[iKrivetko]

For $800, you can buy a 4k display to off-set this advantage?

Have fun carrying it around.

 

[VI™]

Discretionary income. I buy what i want, not outdated technology.

^^ This.

Why do I have a rMBP? I can afford it and I want it.

 

[bobr1952]

The real issue is with the term "justify." There are others who have asked the same thing--but in reality there is no reason to justify the purchase of a rMBP--or anything out there that is available for sale. Everyone has their own ideas on what they want and need and buying a laptop falls squarely into that want/need category. If you like what you see, like how it looks, how the screen looks and the performance--and can afford it--and more importantly want to spend that much on a laptop--you buy it. Otherwise, choose something less expensive that also fits your needs. For me, I knew that the rMBP would be the only choice that would satisfy my wants and needs so that is what I bought--and I have no regrets. Best of luck with whatever you choose to purchase.

 

[paulrbeers]

We are only at the beginning of the 4K era. Hopefully there will be some lossless compression mechanism allowing even previous Macs to handle 4K displays at 60Hz. Other method would be applying lossy compression. This would be useful for watching videos or gaming, allowing even higher refresh rates.

Maybe. It's hard to say. I certainly wouldn't buy a computer hoping that it MIGHT get an update to support 4K at 60hz.


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4k display is better due to screen real estate while being sharp. Having the regular screen on the go and then use the 4k display at home is a pretty good solution. (if you don't got space on your desk for a nice external display, then I suppose retina wins )

Most people won't notice any difference in speed between a SATA SSD and a PCI-e SSD.

The weight is also not an issue. You get expandability in return for it.

Something that completely voids your entire argument: You can't hook a 4K display to a cMBP. So the $800 you save going cMBP in the above scenario could be put towards a 4K display, but you won't be able to use it with the cMBP so it basically would be an $800 paper weight.

Only the rMBP's* can support a 4K display dude.

* Technically so can the New Mac Pros, but they aren't part of this discussion. iMacs, MBA's, cMBPs, and Mac Mini's can not officially support 4K resolutions.

 

[brdeveloper]

Maybe. It's hard to say. I certainly wouldn't buy a computer hoping that it MIGHT get an update to support 4K at 60hz.

Agreed. But for the current owners, there is hope. This is a report suggesting an upcoming lossy standard:

http://www.vesa.org/news/vesa-finalizes-requirements-for-display-stream-compression-standard/

In truth, current owners of 4K displays can be considered early adopters (http://variety.com/2013/digital/new...width-challenge-to-get-into-homes-1200570763/).

There aren't broadly accepted standards, so chances are that early-adopters will be stuck on proprietary compression/decompression mechanisms or limited to devices capable of streaming without any compression (Thunderbolt 2 or any 17-20Gbps+ buses).