I would imagine that apple will be removing the display from future MBPs to save weight / create a sleeker form factor. Anyone needing a display will be able to carry one around and plug it in.
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How Do You Justify Retina?
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I would imagine that apple will be removing the display from future MBPs to save weight / create a sleeker form factor. Anyone needing a display will be able to carry one around and plug it in.
for me personally..
If you have a very strong prescription for near-sightedness like I do, I can justify that cost. It is such a joy to be able to sit or stand at least 18" away from those displays and see what you're typing at 10 point. Or reading for that matter.
The only reason why I have not jumped are the revolving screen issues (and the cracking hinges.) If Apple can fix those display issues, sold. My vision is paramount to me and I would be willing to spend that IF I was sure I could get an rMBP which would not give me issues until it's out of warranty. Yeah, that's asking a lot.
Since I am not a computer repair person or tweaker, the current state of the rMBP does not bother me. I can understand for someone on a budget, with excellent vision/a great external monitor where there would be questions.
I understand I am not the demographic, but I thought I would throw my .2 cents in. Would I like a cheaper rMBP, yes indeed.
If you have a very strong prescription for near-sightedness like I do, I can justify that cost. It is such a joy to be able to sit or stand at least 18" away from those displays and see what you're typing at 10 point. Or reading for that matter.
The only reason why I have not jumped are the revolving screen issues (and the cracking hinges.) If Apple can fix those display issues, sold. My vision is paramount to me and I would be willing to spend that IF I was sure I could get an rMBP which would not give me issues until it's out of warranty. Yeah, that's asking a lot.
Since I am not a computer repair person or tweaker, the current state of the rMBP does not bother me. I can understand for someone on a budget, with excellent vision/a great external monitor where there would be questions.
I understand I am not the demographic, but I thought I would throw my .2 cents in. Would I like a cheaper rMBP, yes indeed.
I too was on the fence months ago between a rMBP vs an older, cheaper cMBP I can get on craigslist. I ended up getting the rMBP and paying about $1000 more for a new model. I don't regret it at all.
Is $800 a lot? Heck yeah it is. I could get an iPod and iPad with that extra savings. But in the end I wanted something newer and the retina screen was worth it to me. Then again, that's my personal opinion on what constitutes value. I could have gotten the cMBP for much cheaper, but I knew I would have regretted not getting the rMBP.
You just have to ask yourself if $800 is worth the upgrade. But that goes with any pc...you pay more for a better display and newer model.
Is $800 a lot? Heck yeah it is. I could get an iPod and iPad with that extra savings. But in the end I wanted something newer and the retina screen was worth it to me. Then again, that's my personal opinion on what constitutes value. I could have gotten the cMBP for much cheaper, but I knew I would have regretted not getting the rMBP.
You just have to ask yourself if $800 is worth the upgrade. But that goes with any pc...you pay more for a better display and newer model.
For me, I just wanted a new fast 15" mac, to upgrade from a 2009 model. The retina was therefore the only choice.
The screen was the least of my reasons to buy, but now that I have used it, it is fantastic. I'm someone who hates the look of scaled resolutions on normal monitors, and frequently try to increase the resolution on work computers (Dell/HP), only to find the murky mess before me is already at full res. However, the retina is even fantastic when scaled up beyond the equivalent res of the old models.
I find that I quickly readjust to the size of any display, and then all that matters is the virtual real-estate that you have. I have even edited 1080p footage on a 11"MBA. When you try one, the 15" at 1080p, while a little small, is clearly the reason why Apple felt that the 17" was no longer necessary.
David
The screen was the least of my reasons to buy, but now that I have used it, it is fantastic. I'm someone who hates the look of scaled resolutions on normal monitors, and frequently try to increase the resolution on work computers (Dell/HP), only to find the murky mess before me is already at full res. However, the retina is even fantastic when scaled up beyond the equivalent res of the old models.
I find that I quickly readjust to the size of any display, and then all that matters is the virtual real-estate that you have. I have even edited 1080p footage on a 11"MBA. When you try one, the 15" at 1080p, while a little small, is clearly the reason why Apple felt that the 17" was no longer necessary.
David
@accountforit Some additional thoughts:
Point taken on your comment about falling ssd costs harming the resale value. You see it now, where few people consider 128gb worth purchasing - new or used.
Upthread someone made a fair point - if your comparison point is a used non-retina mbp then you ought to compare it to cost of a used rmbp. That lowers the cost differential a few hundred dollars. The choice to pay more for a refurb w/warranty or new is a separate decision.
Finally, let me offer one other "justification" -- amortize the cost difference over your useful life of the purchase. Over say three years your $800 difference works out to $5.13 a week. $0.73/day. Literally pennies per hour spent with the computer.
In my situation, my 50+ year old eyes will gladly cough up $0.73 a day for reduced eye strain. YMMV, so ask yourself whether the benefits of the rmbp are worth essentially some daily pocket change.
Point taken on your comment about falling ssd costs harming the resale value. You see it now, where few people consider 128gb worth purchasing - new or used.
Upthread someone made a fair point - if your comparison point is a used non-retina mbp then you ought to compare it to cost of a used rmbp. That lowers the cost differential a few hundred dollars. The choice to pay more for a refurb w/warranty or new is a separate decision.
Finally, let me offer one other "justification" -- amortize the cost difference over your useful life of the purchase. Over say three years your $800 difference works out to $5.13 a week. $0.73/day. Literally pennies per hour spent with the computer.
In my situation, my 50+ year old eyes will gladly cough up $0.73 a day for reduced eye strain. YMMV, so ask yourself whether the benefits of the rmbp are worth essentially some daily pocket change.
Nah, the look on my brother-in-law's face looking at the screen was all I needed...
Why do I need to justify the expense of something I've bought with money I've earned by working 6 months of the year in a 3rd world dump with a high risk of getting shot or kidnapped :-(
The more money I spend now, the less I leave for the UK government to rob from me in tax when I'm dead...hopefully this is some way ahead but you can never be sure.
I honestly can't justify the cost of my iMac, iPad, smart TV, car, or any number of things that I buy but if I want it and can afford it, I buy it. Simple as that.
Anyway, the rMBP is lovely. I wouldn't be without it and I'm buying my daughter one soon as well!
The more money I spend now, the less I leave for the UK government to rob from me in tax when I'm dead...hopefully this is some way ahead but you can never be sure
.I honestly can't justify the cost of my iMac, iPad, smart TV, car, or any number of things that I buy but if I want it and can afford it, I buy it. Simple as that.
Anyway, the rMBP is lovely. I wouldn't be without it and I'm buying my daughter one soon as well!
To keep things simple, just less eyestrain.
I would love a retina model, but I'm happy with my non retina mid 2012 13" Macbook Pro.
I would love a retina model, but I'm happy with my non retina mid 2012 13" Macbook Pro.
Once you read in a retina display you won't want to read elsewhere. Is a different experience owning a device with that type of screen than using it at a store for a brief time.
If you get an uneven yellowish display, it annoys more than helps. I could live almost peacefully with image retention, though.
Well thanks to everyone who replied and provided input.
I am still on the fence and not sure what I plan to do.
I have an iMac as well that I seem to not be using as much lately simply because I don't like being tied to my desk, but I haven't been able to tell myself to sell it not knowing if I will miss having that larger screen if I need it. Seems like a waste to keep it.
I think my lifestyle is now leaning more towards a Macbook Pro and nothing else. Maybe I'll have to sell off what I have and buy a maxed out rMBP. Who knows?
I can't tell if you're trying to talk yourself into buying a retina or talk other people out of it. Either way, if its not for you, doesn't mean its not worth it for others. Its like asking justification for a luxury car over run of the mill. No shoe fits all.
Ok, your answer is to not buy new tech cuz it will be old. Or, don't buy new tech and instead just risk losing money in an investment. Lol?
Great bet! Who cares?
There are many other factors than CPU speed. Benchmarks do not always dictate real life scenarios. You're losing it with every paragraph you add on.
Reading comprehension fail. How will eBay tell me the history of the laptop? It has nothing to do with eBay protocol; it's about the seller. If you get a bad Apple, it's a huge waste of time. I can't imagine anybody wants to send $1500 to some kid in Florida who makes a great eBay ad, yet doesn't treat his stuff with care.
But GJ on your eBay business; do you, like, flip goodies you buy at garage sales and sell them for profit on eBay?
I am not trying to do either. This was meant to be a basic brainstorming session to bring to light any facts I may have not thought of myself. I am not asking others to justify their purchase to me, but rather how they justified the extra to themselves.
Now, there are those who don't think before spending their hard earned money, and those who think too much (me). The first batch of people really need not reply because there was no justification to begin with.
I can tell you.
a) The hard drive cable on the 2009-2012 A1278 macbook pro is ****. I don't want a computer where that is likely to fail on me.
b) The retina is slimmer, thinner. I like that.
c) The retina has a nicer screen, and you do indeed notice this a LOT - even within the limitations of the 13.3" size.
d) The hinges are much better made. You don't have to open them once every six months to tighten it if you're a road warrior.
e) Upgradability is a moot point on a laptop, IMO. People yell and scream about soldered memory.. who cares?
CPU & GPU make a bigger difference than RAM do. Unless you're using up all the RAM it came with, more RAM won't make a difference, but CPU & GPU make a big difference and you cannot upgrade them on over half of all laptops(mac OR pc) made over the past seven years.
My Thinkpad is infinitely more upgradeable than any Apple model.. and I'm stuck with the Quadro NVS 4200M that it came with. There is nothing I can do about that.
I got my Thinkpad with 8 GB of RAM in 2011. By the time I actually feel the need to upgrade to 16 GB the CPU & GPU will be so far behind everything else that upgrading the memory will just be a waste.
If you want upgradeability, buy a desktop, not a laptop. Laptops just aren't made to be upgraded anymore.
a) The hard drive cable on the 2009-2012 A1278 macbook pro is ****. I don't want a computer where that is likely to fail on me.
b) The retina is slimmer, thinner. I like that.
c) The retina has a nicer screen, and you do indeed notice this a LOT - even within the limitations of the 13.3" size.
d) The hinges are much better made. You don't have to open them once every six months to tighten it if you're a road warrior.
e) Upgradability is a moot point on a laptop, IMO. People yell and scream about soldered memory.. who cares?
CPU & GPU make a bigger difference than RAM do. Unless you're using up all the RAM it came with, more RAM won't make a difference, but CPU & GPU make a big difference and you cannot upgrade them on over half of all laptops(mac OR pc) made over the past seven years.
My Thinkpad is infinitely more upgradeable than any Apple model.. and I'm stuck with the Quadro NVS 4200M that it came with. There is nothing I can do about that.
I got my Thinkpad with 8 GB of RAM in 2011. By the time I actually feel the need to upgrade to 16 GB the CPU & GPU will be so far behind everything else that upgrading the memory will just be a waste.
If you want upgradeability, buy a desktop, not a laptop. Laptops just aren't made to be upgraded anymore.
Don't break the bank - never be tempted into that.
But, if you can afford either, you'll not be disappointed with the size, weight, and amazing screen on the rMBP. It has ruined me for any other screen.
That said, if you can't afford it, just don't play with one and you won't know the difference and will be happy with a MBP as well as its often OS X that really matters, but so much the hardware.
But, if you can afford either, you'll not be disappointed with the size, weight, and amazing screen on the rMBP. It has ruined me for any other screen.
That said, if you can't afford it, just don't play with one and you won't know the difference and will be happy with a MBP as well as its often OS X that really matters, but so much the hardware.
Can you shoot me a PM -- I'd like in on this.
~~~
It's really about personal utility and opportunity cost. For example, some might well decide a used/upgraded MBP and a fully loaded iPad Air is a more valuable use of that amount of money. Hard to argue that's a "wrong" decision. There are any number of choices that can "justified" as a reasonable, personal utility decision -- including the choice to buy a rMBP.
After just a few hours today with my new rMBP I can confirm I'd gladly pay $0.73 an hour (let alone $0.73 a day) to work with this screen. The difference - the ease of text reading/writing compared to my former, crappy TN panel -- is staggering.
Me TOO..
I am pretty much in EXACT Agreement with this thought process.. my 'latest' MBP is a mid-2011 Refurb 2.2GHz i7, Hi-Res Screen, with an upgraded to SSD and the HD in the Optical Drive.. it has been wonderful to me, and I DO NOT need to spend the money on a new one.. Yet..
BUT, that being said, I really DO like the Retina screens, and when I decide to upgrade again (likely about the time my Applecare runs its course) I will once again go peruse the Refurb store with an idea of what I want/need and keep an eye out.. Typically you are saving ~15% on the high end models, and that is just fine by me to get Full Warranty and essentially a New Machine.. but, to each their own..
** Also, You have NOT mentioned The Battery, and as the machine ages it WILL become less efficient 'as a consumable' is known to be, and will take a ~$150 Fix to get to where a new one already starts!! **
Happy Shopping, hope you 'find what you are looking for'.. 
Personally I don't need to justify my purchase. I needed a tool to get my work done, and the rMBP was the best fit. If you think the screen or the SSD are not major factors to buy the rMBP then move on. Its not the computer for you.
we're talking about a computer, not lining up a marriage for life
I am pretty much in EXACT Agreement with this thought process.. my 'latest' MBP is a mid-2011 Refurb 2.2GHz i7, Hi-Res Screen, with an upgraded to SSD and the HD in the Optical Drive.. it has been wonderful to me, and I DO NOT need to spend the money on a new one.. Yet..
BUT, that being said, I really DO like the Retina screens, and when I decide to upgrade again (likely about the time my Applecare runs its course) I will once again go peruse the Refurb store with an idea of what I want/need and keep an eye out.. Typically you are saving ~15% on the high end models, and that is just fine by me to get Full Warranty and essentially a New Machine.. but, to each their own..
** Also, You have NOT mentioned The Battery, and as the machine ages it WILL become less efficient 'as a consumable' is known to be, and will take a ~$150 Fix to get to where a new one already starts!! **
Happy Shopping, hope you 'find what you are looking for'..
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It depends entirely on what you're going to do with your laptop.
At this point, a cMBP is more upgradable than the new MP. I'm a musician who needs to be able to change my mind about the configuration depending on the gig, and I need firewire compatibility.
Here' an example: For a coming gig, it's very possible I'm going to need two internal hard drives -- my 500GB SSD for my apps and a larger HD drive for huge project files and libraries. With a cMBP, I can remove the DVD drive and put in a 2.5 hard drive instead. When it's all over, I'll reinstall my burner.
Firewire is necessary because of legacy interfaces, drives and so forth.
Yes, the Retina screen is pretty and, yes, I'm nearsighted. I'd add the screen to the older config if I could. But as an Apple salesman (also a musician) pointed out to me when I was in the store, the ppi isn't as dense as on the iPad and the necessity isn't as great because I'll be looking at the screen from a greater distance. Besides which, I have the "Hi-Res Anti-Glare Screen," as it was called way back in 2012. Not as good as the retina, but also not quite as shiny.
Ultimately, I have to be able to take my laptop apart -- especially since the new Mac Pro is going to be just as resistant to customization as the rMBP. So at the time -- and for the time being -- the cMBP was/is the only possible choice for me.
No point in dissing other people's choices. There are a lot of good reasons to get the retina model. But for my purposes, the 2012 non-retina version has served my needs better than the newer model would have at the time (late 2012). It wasn't a matter of money. It was a matter of necessary flexibility.
At this point, a cMBP is more upgradable than the new MP. I'm a musician who needs to be able to change my mind about the configuration depending on the gig, and I need firewire compatibility.
Here' an example: For a coming gig, it's very possible I'm going to need two internal hard drives -- my 500GB SSD for my apps and a larger HD drive for huge project files and libraries. With a cMBP, I can remove the DVD drive and put in a 2.5 hard drive instead. When it's all over, I'll reinstall my burner.
Firewire is necessary because of legacy interfaces, drives and so forth.
Yes, the Retina screen is pretty and, yes, I'm nearsighted. I'd add the screen to the older config if I could. But as an Apple salesman (also a musician) pointed out to me when I was in the store, the ppi isn't as dense as on the iPad and the necessity isn't as great because I'll be looking at the screen from a greater distance. Besides which, I have the "Hi-Res Anti-Glare Screen," as it was called way back in 2012. Not as good as the retina, but also not quite as shiny.
Ultimately, I have to be able to take my laptop apart -- especially since the new Mac Pro is going to be just as resistant to customization as the rMBP. So at the time -- and for the time being -- the cMBP was/is the only possible choice for me.
No point in dissing other people's choices. There are a lot of good reasons to get the retina model. But for my purposes, the 2012 non-retina version has served my needs better than the newer model would have at the time (late 2012). It wasn't a matter of money. It was a matter of necessary flexibility.
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