how does 6+ perform with lots of open tabs?

[yegon]

Tabs are as bad as they've ever been. Equally, flipping between a few apps, Mailbox, Alien Blue, Overcast, Safari for example, forces a complete refresh of x app more often than I'd like.

It's my only beef with an otherwise excellent device. I can live with it, but how anyone has the patience to do serious work on this/the iPad truly boggles my mind.

 

[CoilTap]

I didn't ever say it was, but the costs would be pennies to fix it if it's as easy as you say. They provide plenty of little updates in between big OS updates that aren't top priority so why not this?

Why not this? That's a question for Apple, but clearly it hasn't been a priority otherwise it would be different. Just because you consider the other items not high priority doesn't mean Apple does. Further, this might not even be on their list of stuff they care about at all, let alone be prioritized.

I understand this application behavior makes you angry, but the simple reality is a small population of angry people doesn't tend to stir Apple into action.

 

[vgamedude]

Why not this? That's a question for Apple, but clearly it hasn't been a priority otherwise it would be different. Just because you consider the other items not high priority doesn't mean Apple does. Further, this might not even be on their list of stuff they care about at all, let alone be prioritized.

I understand this application behavior makes you angry, but the simple reality is a small population of angry people doesn't tend to stir Apple into action.

The stuff they add in tiny updates isn't exactly things people scream on the rooftops for. This is way more requested of a fix then some of the other things I'm sure they stick into updates.

I'm simply not confident this can be fixed by software, not only am I not confident, I'm near certain at this point. To me what it comes down to is apple doesn't care about the reloads, and they knew it would be 2-5 more dollars to stick another gig of RAM in their SoC so they just didn't do it. Why should they? People will buy it anyway. It's not about product quality or performance it's about giving people what they will buy at the lowest possible cost.

 

[darknyt]

30-40 open tabs is ridiculous. So few would need this.

It happens with just a few. Even on my iPad Air, I cannot do any actual WORK. The other day I needed to fill out a form. I opened ONE other tab in my email to get info I needed from form.

I could NOT complete the form without the tab reloading as I switched back and forth.

That's when I really sat back in my chair and swore at Apple - incomprehensible.

 

[CoilTap]

The stuff they add in tiny updates isn't exactly things people scream on the rooftops for. This is way more requested of a fix then some of the other things I'm sure they stick into updates.

I'm simply not confident this can be fixed by software, not only am I not confident, I'm near certain at this point. To me what it comes down to is apple doesn't care about the reloads, and they knew it would be 2-5 more dollars to stick another gig of RAM in their SoC so they just didn't do it. Why should they? People will buy it anyway. It's not about product quality or performance it's about giving people what they will buy at the lowest possible cost.

Yeah, but your mistake is that you think Apple is looking at the general forum population for advice on what to fix. They're not.

They're looking at crash logs, usage patterns, real statistics, market surveys, and what features are sending people to competitors. A bunch of screaming nerds on a forum likely don't make the equation at all.

Further, if this is a software problem, which I'm nearly certain it is, adding more memory will only marginally improve the problem. If adding more memory fixed this problem, then you'd have seen this problem get better from iPhone 4 to now, and it really hasn't changed.

I can tell you exactly how this could be fixed with semi-minimal effort - simply don't keep all of the open tabs in memory. Push tabs older than X interval to disk and keep an identifier to the cached entry on disk in memory. When a tab older than X is opened, grab it from the disk and restore the tab content without making the http request. Pulling ~10MB back from solid state storage would be imperceptibly different than the data living in memory all the time to the end user.

That's the down and dirty fix. I'm still quite certain there's some junk code and memory management that can be adjusted, though at a greater cost, to keep tabs alive longer. The cost of this route may be quite significant.

 

[Newtons Apple]

It happens with just a few. Even on my iPad Air, I cannot do any actual WORK. The other day I needed to fill out a form. I opened ONE other tab in my email to get info I needed from form.

I could NOT complete the form without the tab reloading as I switched back and forth.

That's when I really sat back in my chair and swore at Apple - incomprehensible.

So you could not do any "actual work" because a page reloaded

 

[yegon]

It happens with just a few. Even on my iPad Air, I cannot do any actual WORK. The other day I needed to fill out a form. I opened ONE other tab in my email to get info I needed from form.

I could NOT complete the form without the tab reloading as I switched back and forth.

That's when I really sat back in my chair and swore at Apple - incomprehensible.

Agreed.

I generally think of iOS devices as single app devices, ie they generally do one thing at a time (with exceptions like background music etc), and things like quick reply and extensibility improve it to some degree.

Generally, the experience using a single app is good. As a serious work tool? Laugh out loud.

What distinguishes the tab behaviour from other irritants (apps refreshing upon entry for example) is that it diminishes the experience while you're IN the app and actively using it! It speaks volumes that the act of "select all--> copy" is something I regularly do without thinking, as its a necessity if you ever be so bold as to move elsewhere. However, as you say, this is no help where form completion is concerned.

 

[vgamedude]

Yeah, but your mistake is that you think Apple is looking at the general forum population for advice on what to fix. They're not.

They're looking at crash logs, usage patterns, real statistics, market surveys, and what features are sending people to competitors. A bunch of screaming nerds on a forum likely don't make the equation at all.

Further, if this is a software problem, which I'm nearly certain it is, adding more memory will only marginally improve the problem. If adding more memory fixed this problem, then you'd have seen this problem get better from iPhone 4 to now, and it really hasn't changed.

I can tell you exactly how this could be fixed with semi-minimal effort - simply don't keep all of the open tabs in memory. Push tabs older than X interval to disk and keep an identifier to the cached entry on disk in memory. When a tab older than X is opened, grab it from the disk and restore the tab content without making the http request. Pulling ~10MB back from solid state storage would be imperceptibly different than the data living in memory all the time to the end user.

That's the down and dirty fix. I'm still quite certain there's some junk code and memory management that can be adjusted, though at a greater cost, to keep tabs alive longer. The cost of this route may be quite significant.

Yep, they should give us the option to do that, I have actually said that before it would solve most of my complaints.

Oh and if they were actually looking at logs, they would see numerous low memory crashes, many owners of the Air, including me, had it filled with low memory crashes.

----------

So you could not do any "actual work" because a page reloaded

When you're filling out a form, look away for a second to look something up, then come back and all the stuff you filled in is gone, yes that makes it so you can't do actual work.

 

[stanw]

I agree with the other poster. I need to switch between tabs to copy info back and forth sometimes. How do you do actual work if the tabs always reload??? I really want to be able to get an iPhone, I am a Mac user, though apparently, I am just in that very small percentage of people who might want to keep more than 20 tabs open and copy and paste between tabs without losing info on a form. Seems like fairly simple stuff to expect to me...

So you could not do any "actual work" because a page reloaded

 

[itjw]

How do you become a victim of tab reload?

whats a common thing that happens?

Like you start composing a blog post and switch to a diff tab and when you come back it reloaded and lost the text?

If you believe the RAM whiners it's far worse than that. It's the equivalent of an old country music song where essentially, by the time the tab reloads, life just aint worth livin anymore...

Therapists are really missing the boat IMO. There could be RAM support groups, medications, and all sorts of other ways to capitalize on the severe emotional distress that tab reloading inflicts.

Even though I have never experienced it, seen it, or know of anyone personally affected, my thoughts and prayers still go out to the victims of RAM.

My thoughts are mostly me pointing and laughing, but they still go out...

 

[sunking101]

I agree with the other poster. I need to switch between tabs to copy info back and forth sometimes. How do you do actual work if the tabs always reload??? I really want to be able to get an iPhone, I am a Mac user, though apparently, I am just in that very small percentage of people who might want to keep more than 20 tabs open and copy and paste between tabs without losing info on a form. Seems like fairly simple stuff to expect to me...

Exactly. To me it's basic functionality and the tab reloading issue renders the phone 'un smart'. Kids love it for their games, and fashionistas for style but try to do any serious web browsing and form filling? Forget it.

 

[Traverse]

Clearly you didn't read my post and decided to go on the attack anyway. I gave the app itself 100 MB of space before any tabs.

Desktop Safari, with no open tabs, uses about 70MB. The mobile optimized version should use less than that, but I'm being conservative and giving it 100.

Also, if you understand the definition of "average," then you understand this means that some web pages use less than the average and some use more. So, yes, I'm sure you can find web pages that use 10MB of space, but that's not the average case, and I doubt many users have multiple tabs with huge amounts of data.

But, let's go with 10MB to be even more conservative. Then let's triple that to be super conservative and say 30MB. Even at 30MB, you're talking about 16 tabs before the app is out of memory. And these tabs are extreme cases.

Let's also remember that Apple compresses data before putting it into memory, so raw storage versus raw download sizes is an extra conservative approach to begin with.

So, there are no "apple blinders" about this - it's not a hardware issue. It's a software issue. I concur it's a problem, I simply don't agree about the source of the problem. As a software engineer myself, I 100% guarantee you this can be solved from a software perspective without adding any RAM.

I'm not arguing with you, but then how do explain destop Safari using 200-300MB per tab with some sites?

 

[itjw]

Exactly. To me it's basic functionality and the tab reloading issue renders the phone 'un smart'. Kids love it for their games, and fashionistas for style but try to do any serious web browsing and form filling? Forget it.

If you need to do "serious" "form filling" on your phone, you are every bit as crazy as I believe the majority of RAM whiners to be.

What forms could you possibly be filling out on a consistent basis where this "issue" could affect you more than MAYBE once or twice?

And 20 tabs? On a phone? Ok. Point proven. Thanks

----------

I'm not arguing with you, but then how do explain destop Safari using 200-300MB per tab with some sites?

Please list these sites for reference.

 

[vgamedude]

If you need to do "serious" "form filling" on your phone, you are every bit as crazy as I believe the majority of RAM whiners to be.

What forms could you possibly be filling out on a consistent basis where this "issue" could affect you more than MAYBE once or twice?

And 20 tabs? On a phone? Ok. Point proven. Thanks

----------



Please list these sites for reference.

What forms could you possibly be filling out on a consistent basis where this "issue" could affect you more than MAYBE once or twice?

Do you not use forums, fill out financial information, order stuff from your phone or anything?

 

[newone757]

I open lots of links from Facebook and come back to them when I can...

You need to learn how to use pocket

 

[CoilTap]

I'm not arguing with you, but then how do explain destop Safari using 200-300MB per tab with some sites?

Safari on desktop doesn't have the resource limitations that Safari on mobile does. Thus, it keeps a lot of extra things in memory, like all of the previous page history for your tab. Further, when you're working with a known set of resources, you program to it. If "keeping tabs open without refreshing" were a priority, the app could certainly be built that way.

 

[sunking101]

If you need to do "serious" "form filling" on your phone, you are every bit as crazy as I believe the majority of RAM whiners to be.

What forms could you possibly be filling out on a consistent basis where this "issue" could affect you more than MAYBE once or twice?

And 20 tabs? On a phone? Ok. Point proven. Thanks

----------



Please list these sites for reference.

Safari in iOS6 allowed 8 open tabs. With iOS7 this was increased to 25 I believe. Tabs reloaded in iOS6 when the max number of tabs was 8. If the phone isn't capable of running 8 open tabs without reloading them, why offer the feature? Why not fix the issue or limit the number of tabs to one? Instead of fixing it, Apple increased the screen size & resolution, upped the processor speed, kept the RAM at a measly 1GB......and increased the number of Safari tabs available to 25. Explain this please...

 

[iregret]

Here ya guys go.

https://www.apple.com/feedback/

I've submitted feed back. You should too.

 

[booksbooks]

1 GB of RAM. Same old crap. I'm getting reloads. God Apple, come on.

 

[newone757]

I really don't have this issue. Replied in this thread. Loaded another tab. Launched a game. And replied to Facebook comments. Switch back to safari and I had to reload this page to see the replies. *shrugs

 

[sunking101]

I really don't have this issue. Replied in this thread. Loaded another tab. Launched a game. And replied to Facebook comments. Switch back to safari and I had to reload this page to see the replies. *shrugs

It depends how heavy the sites loaded are, how many tabs you have open, and what you had for breakfast. It cannot be recreated at will, but the issue occurs for me daily. Sure it's not always a problem as such but when it happens during typing a post or form-filling, it's a PITA.

 

[newone757]

It depends how heavy the sites loaded are, how many tabs you have open, and what you had for breakfast. It cannot be recreated at will, but the issue occurs for me daily. Sure it's not always a problem as such but when it happens during typing a post or form-filling, it's a PITA.

Fair enough. That makes sense

 

[zhenya]

The stuff they add in tiny updates isn't exactly things people scream on the rooftops for. This is way more requested of a fix then some of the other things I'm sure they stick into updates.

I'm simply not confident this can be fixed by software, not only am I not confident, I'm near certain at this point. To me what it comes down to is apple doesn't care about the reloads, and they knew it would be 2-5 more dollars to stick another gig of RAM in their SoC so they just didn't do it. Why should they? People will buy it anyway. It's not about product quality or performance it's about giving people what they will buy at the lowest possible cost.

I just can't buy this logic. Apple builds these devices at nearly price-is-no-object levels (within reasonable limits). They put in the best screens available, design custom SoC's that are consistently top-tier, use materials in the casing that are much nicer than necessary, and even explore exotics like sapphire and liquid metal. Given all of that I just don't buy that they choose to outfit these devices with less RAM to save a dollar per device (or likely less at the scales they work at). They know something we don't. I suspect it is a combination of power consumption concerns and forcing app developers to keep their code tight. We also have the evidence to prove that even on other mobile operating systems the behavior is largely the same despite more ram. It's just not convincing that this is done for cost reasons.

That said I too wish they would do something about it. It's the most irritating thing about the otherwise fantastic browsing experience on these devices - which are frankly the fastest and smoothest devices I own including my new high end laptop.

 

[vgamedude]

I just can't buy this logic. Apple builds these devices at nearly price-is-no-object levels (within reasonable limits). They put in the best screens available, design custom SoC's that are consistently top-tier, use materials in the casing that are much nicer than necessary, and even explore exotics like sapphire and liquid metal. Given all of that I just don't buy that they choose to outfit these devices with less RAM to save a dollar per device (or likely less at the scales they work at). They know something we don't. I suspect it is a combination of power consumption concerns and forcing app developers to keep their code tight. We also have the evidence to prove that even on other mobile operating systems the behavior is largely the same despite more ram. It's just not convincing that this is done for cost reasons.

That said I too wish they would do something about it. It's the most irritating thing about the otherwise fantastic browsing experience on these devices - which are frankly the fastest and smoothest devices I own including my new high end laptop.

"They put in the best screens available"

not really. look at the plus for instance. 1300:1 contrast versus the 1400:1 contrast on the 6, 1920x1080 which isnt even the resolution things are rendered at 2208x1242 so the hardware has to downsample to 1920x1080. Not going to lie and say it's a bad screen but apple did cut corners with it a bit. The regular six has a not so impressive resolution, but its near the point where you cannot discern pixels at average use distance so I won't fault it too much for that.


"design custom SoC's that are consistently top-tier"

Top tier but not perfect, apple has gigantic profit margins if they could shave off 5 dollars from gimping on RAM and still sell as many phones they are going to do it.

"use materials in the casing that are much nicer than necessary"

I can't comment on this with 100 percent accuracy but I've heard that the "aircraft grade aluminum" is bs and all marketing, furthermore the sapphire screens didn't make a show this time around, and the iphone 6 plus has questionable structural integrity. The devices seem quite weak, I suppose the materials are pretty good, but again, their margins are too.

"They know something we don't. I suspect it is a combination of power consumption concerns"

this is false. Someone a smarter than me calculated (i really should have bookmarked I'll see if I can find it) that the battery usage difference if they had added 2gbs to the SoC would be nonexistent. It's a cost thing.

"forcing app developers to keep their code tight. "

I really hate this reasoning, it also hinders app development and progress because it gives them far less to work with.

 

[zhenya]

"They put in the best screens available"

not really. look at the plus for instance. 1300:1 contrast versus the 1400:1 contrast on the 6, 1920x1080 which isnt even the resolution things are rendered at 2208x1242 so the hardware has to downsample to 1920x1080. Not going to lie and say it's a bad screen but apple did cut corners with it a bit. The regular six has a not so impressive resolution, but its near the point where you cannot discern pixels at average use distance so I won't fault it too much for that.


"design custom SoC's that are consistently top-tier"

Top tier but not perfect, apple has gigantic profit margins if they could shave off 5 dollars from gimping on RAM and still sell as many phones they are going to do it.

"use materials in the casing that are much nicer than necessary"

I can't comment on this with 100 percent accuracy but I've heard that the "aircraft grade aluminum" is bs and all marketing, furthermore the sapphire screens didn't make a show this time around, and the iphone 6 plus has questionable structural integrity. The devices seem quite weak, I suppose the materials are pretty good, but again, their margins are too.

"They know something we don't. I suspect it is a combination of power consumption concerns"

this is false. Someone a smarter than me calculated (i really should have bookmarked I'll see if I can find it) that the battery usage difference if they had added 2gbs to the SoC would be nonexistent. It's a cost thing.

"forcing app developers to keep their code tight. "

I really hate this reasoning, it also hinders app development and progress because it gives them far less to work with.

You are completely stuck in the specs game. Like their cameras, iPhone screens may not always have the best 'specs' on paper but they consistently look the best, measure the best or among the best, and the new 6's have been recently been determined to be the best lcd screens ever put in a phone. Can't argue with that.

Their SoC, are consistently at the top of the heap in performance while also using the least power.

Seriously you are going to argue about the casing materials and attention to detail? Have you held a Samsung S5 lately??

Power concerns are not just about active device use. Doubling the RAM nearly doubles the power required to power it and the RAM is one component that has to be powered 100% every second the device is on - even in sleep - their is no sleep state for ram to save power. This could have a non-trivial effect on standby battery life.

Keeping code tight is extremely important in order to maintain the performance we expect from these devices. Else we end up with a situation like in Windows where tiny helper programs have blown up over the years to using hundreds of Megs of ram because of sloppy programming.