How future proof is the Mac Pro

[MikeL]

nd yes by the way i do know about intel's roadmap that knowledge isn't limited to ignorant c**ks like you

Heh. That's funny. You're the one that is lacking knowledge, and you're calling me ignorant? Maybe you need to find yourself a dictionary. Need some help with that, or have they taught you and your fellow budding EEs how to use Google yet?

It's never going to be economically viable to replace the CPUs in an MP. All a person has to do to understand that is look at recent history and Intel's future plans. You've plainly failed to do that.

Of course the CPUs are socketed. That's been discussed ad nauseam on this forum. If you had bothered to take 30 seconds you'd have easily found the answer to your real question, which apparently wasn't what you asked in your thread title.

Just a tip, learn some people skills. Doing that will set you apart from many of your future engineering peers.

 

[diamond.g]

Until Intel change the socket (amount of pins). Thats what annoyed the hell out of me with AMD, you no sooner bought a new chip. 6 Months to a year later they changed the socket. So you were SOL in upgrading. Well, you could still upgrade, but you would need a new motherboard and memory. If you needed to. Though thats not really an upgrade is it... when its replacing the guts of the system. With older parts collecting dust.

The worst one was that they changed the socket for DDR2, and the performance gain was very little.

Currently Intel is able to get away with not forcing everyone to change sockets. Why? Cause they don't integrate the memory controller in the CPU. That was a large reasons why Athlon 64's were faster than P4s and it is one of the major reasons why the Core processors have so much cache. It is to offset not having the memory controller on board. The other was IPC. It is also the reason why AMD could keep up with Core (1) originally.
So when AMD went from Single Channel DDR to Dual Channel DDR we had to go from 754 -> 939
When AMD went to DDR2 we had to go to AM2. When AMD goes to DDR3 we will probably have to change sockets again.

Don't worry at some point Intel is going to integrate the memory controller, and us Apple users will get the feel the love then.

What does the roadmap say for the next socket? I'm probably going to be looking for a new Mac in 9 months or so

I am not sure if it is Nelahem or after, but as soon as Intel actually included the memory contoller in the CPU like AMD does you will see the socket change everytime the memory type does. Although I am pretty sure the server/workstation chips may not be affected by that. Intel may choose to continue to keep the memory contoller in the NB.

 

[Jonny427]

Don't worry at some point Intel is going to integrate the memory controller, and us Apple users will get the feel the love then.

I believe Nelahem will have it... or was it Sandy Bridge?

 

[MikeL]

It's supposed to be with Nelahem.

 

[Roy]

Actually i do, but you know thanks for not being a dick and just shouting your mouth off. The current Xeon chip goes up to 3.2Ghz but that upgrade is way out of my budget at the moment but as with all tech the cost will come down so might be in the future.

I never said I was going to buy the chips off another Mac Pro owner, I thought you’d have an open enough mind to think I might buy it off a 3rd party company that may offer the 3.2Ghz chip as part of an upgrade kit such as this: http://www.macobserver.com/article/2007/10/29.12.shtml that's available for G4's.

All i wanted to know was if the cpu was soldered in (and it wasn't until your third reply that you actually said no and not some garbage about how i suck in broken english). I knew that the CPU was soldered in the old iMac's, PowerBooks and iBooks and all you had to say was "no they're not" and not that i'm an idiot for thinking someone would sell me their CPUs which i never actually mentioned planning on doing. I found out from doing my own research that the chips are replaceable (and seems to have always been for the Mac Pro line) and if the next gen of Xeon use the same socket (I know all about sockets and computer hardware as I’m doing a electrical engineering degree and probably know more about the inner workings of a processor than you but again thanks for not being a dick) then it is possible to upgrade to them, like hardmac did before http://www.hardmac.com/articles/70/ .

I found both those sites after the people on this forum acted liked a bunch of five year olds and decided to insult and ridicule me rather than help. If i was a switcher i would be seriously put off by your elitist and ignorant attitudes and would reconsider if i wanted to be part of this “mac community”.

and yes by the way i do know about intel's roadmap that knowledge isn't limited to ignorant c**ks like you

Your original question looked like you were a newbie, but it's just that you had done no research and wanted others to do your leg work for you. So do your research ahead of time and then you won't look a b***hole with your responses when people try to help you. As much knowledge as you say you have, you should have known all the newbie questions you asked.

 

[Meep]

Heh. That's funny. You're the one that is lacking knowledge, and you're calling me ignorant? Maybe you need to find yourself a dictionary. Need some help with that, or have they taught you and your fellow budding EEs how to use Google yet?

It's never going to be economically viable to replace the CPUs in an MP. All a person has to do to understand that is look at recent history and Intel's future plans. You've plainly failed to do that.

Of course the CPUs are socketed. That's been discussed ad nauseam on this forum. If you had bothered to take 30 seconds you'd have easily found the answer to your real question, which apparently wasn't what you asked in your thread title.

Just a tip, learn some people skills. Doing that will set you apart from many of your future engineering peers.

Yes i am calling you ignorant as you seem to be on some massive power trip. I'll think you find in my original post asked how future proof the make was and how many years i could expect to get use out of it. I also asked "I'm really talking about upgradability as i know the Macs of old sometimes had the CPU soldered in, is this still the case?" So yes i do actually think my title was fitting. It wouldn't of taken 5 seconds of someone’s time (that's a sixth less than the 30 you quoted) to say "no they are not soldered in and they've never been in the Mac Pro line" See not very hard but instead i got:

Consider the cost of Dual Quad Core 2.8Ghz (2 CPU's, not the whole computer, at today's prices) would you put buy them and put them in a 3 year old computer knowing that all the other parts in the computer are 3 years old plus 3 years technologically behind? Something to think about on upgrading CPU's.

That didn't really answer my question of if the CPUs were soldered in so i said i didn't think the guy understood my question and tried to reiterate it to which he then replied:

But that situation is the very same situation I was alluding to, but it is the 3.2Ghz guy making the decision to put a 6.4Ghz in an older computer, with older hardware. Considering Apple's past and peeking into the future, I would say "Don't count on it and realistically don't expect it".

Again this didn't actually answer my question and then you piped in with your:

He doesn't understand that Intel will never produce significantly faster Xeons that will be compatible with this generation of Xeon's socket and supporting chipsets.

It was at this point that i actually lost my temper (but it’s worth noting that Xeon's have used the same socket for a while now but a new Xeon would be limited by the lower FSB speed of the older motherboard but whatever what’s the point of having an argument based in fact when you can just reply with: “use google!111!!”?). I managed to write a well balanced reply that did admittedly get a bit personal but the fact that you have to now resort to childish comments about if i can use google really just lowers my opinion of you even further and come on if i'd used google you'd never been able to go on this lil power trip now would you?

I think some people on this forum really don't like helping people (note that telling people your opinion isn’t the same as helping them and if said people don’t agree with your opinion don’t cry about it but suck it up and try and be an adult and see their point) which is a shame as this forum is designed and meant to help people.
As for it being economical? If the processors were cheap enough then yes i think it would be too get just a few more months out of a system before having to replace it totally. It's kinda the same as asking if it's worth adding more RAM.

 

[Meep]

Your original question looked like you were a newbie, but it's just that you had done no research and wanted others to do your leg work for you. So do your research ahead of time and then you won't look a b***hole with your responses when people try to help you. As much knowledge as you say you have, you should have known all the newbie questions you asked.

I thought this was a forum where people came to ask questions? My background knowledge of computers should not affect your response to my questions. You could of been nice (and adult) and just said "yes they are replacable but please next time use the search forum as this question has been asked many times before." This would fulfil the image some try to convey of Apple users being a community. Instead i was subject to childish and snide remarks which reminded me more of elitist Linux and video game forums than the hailed community.

I did do some research but i don't think asking owner of a computer it's specifics is "wanting others to do the leg work for me". If a friend asked you if your computer had user replacable processors would you belittle them and then tell them to use google? or would you use the simpler/nicer/quicker option of just saying yes/no?

 

[Roy]

I thought this was a forum where people came to ask questions? My background knowledge of computers should not affect your response to my questions. You could of been nice (and adult) and just said "yes they are replacable but please next time use the search forum as this question has been asked many times before." This would fulfil the image some try to convey of Apple users being a community. Instead i was subject to childish and snide remarks which reminded me more of elitist Linux and video game forums than the hailed community.

I did do some research but i don't think asking owner of a computer it's specifics is "wanting others to do the leg work for me". If a friend asked you if your computer had user replacable processors would you belittle them and then tell them to use google? or would you use the simpler/nicer/quicker option of just saying yes/no?

Then you should asked only this:

..as i know the Macs of old sometimes had the CPU soldered in, is this still the case?

But then you throw in other ideas and when people tried to answer you about the other parts of your initial post, then you went off the deep end. If you would have just posted what you wanted to know, then you would have gotten a simple answer to go with your vast knowledge.

 

[Meep]

Then you should asked only this:

I never said i had a vast knowledge, i only mentioned my degree as i was getting treated like i had just posted about how i work for apple (or my Dad does; or my friend’s dad does; or my cat’s parent’s owner’s second cousin’s uncle’s little sister is Steve Job’s wife (does he have a wife?)) and knoes (i intentionally misspelt that before you ask) that Apple are going to release an iCar which touch sensitive steering wheel next week.

I asked a multilayered question to which you and others only picked up on one part of and i never actually asked any more questions but did try to get you to understand when i thought you weren’t getting my question as you didn’t actually answer my question if the processor was replaceable untill your third post, before that you were asking why i would want to.

The main reason for my thread was that I wanted to know (and asked) how long i could expect to usefully use my Mac Pro (and then stated the specs so people knew which computer i was talking about). Some people actually answered this and i never said anything to them the only people i “went off the deep end” at were you and (mainly) MikeL and i only did that after MikeL started insulting my knowledge and belittling me and generally acting like a total jerk and even then i managed to put together a post that of been insulting i had many more facts and balanced opinions that all his posts put together.

All three of us are probably never going to agree so there’s no point dragging this out any longer. (I don’t know about you but my flatemates have been telling me to just walk away for a while now) I just hope we’ve all learned from this experience and don’t do the same mistakes.

See you on the forums

 

[Roy]

............

All three of us are probably never going to agree so there’s no point dragging this out any longer. (I don’t know about you but my flatemates have been telling me to just walk away for a while now) I just hope we’ve all learned from this experience and don’t do the same mistakes.

See you on the forums

Excellent statement. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

[ungraphic]

all the macs will only be as 'future proof' as intel plans on developing chips based on a particular socket.

the first gen. mac pros can be upgraded but not to the new penryn based processors.

but thats only a small problem, apple still doesnt offer **** for a video card upgrade.

 

[orpheus1120]

A post like this is really useless IMHO. If all you wanted to ask is if the processor is soldered then just ask it. I think asking the question of how future proof any system is, is apparently too abstract and repetitive. Too many people asked it before, and only if you have searched, you would know the answer. People might answer this question the first time. The next time they are asked, they might answer it again, and same for 3rd and 4th etc. But when you got a friend or someone else who asked you the same question over and over and over again, you might just ask them to google it instead. So sometimes we need to understand why other react the way they do. My advise is before you ask a question next time, do a search on the board first.

What are you using the Mac Pro for? If you use it to play tick-tack-toe, no it will never get replaced. If all you use it for is spreadsheet, office 2008 etc, it is definitely future proof.

How future proof is your system depends on what you use your system for. What are you using it for? If you are familiar with Intel's plan, then you will know 3 years down the road, their next processor will probably not work in current MP. As much as we wanna think the Mac Pro or any other desktop for the matter to be "upgradeable" in the long term, they are not and they will be replaced sooner than you think. This is because chipset's, motherboard's, processor's etc architectures change all the time.

I'm sure we are all nice people. We are just misinterpreted sometimes that's all. Please refrain from calling names.

Come on peeps, get along already.

 

[Luis Ortega]

its gonna be harder for u next time, they learn and observe. The same trick wont do twice

lol...you make them sound like lab rats.

 

[vohdoun]

I can only guess the Mac Pro is obsolete already!

Front page.

More interesting are details of Intel's Nehalem processors which will be the successor to Penryn. While Nehalem is also a 45nm, SSE4, quad-core chip, it will introduce a number of other new technologies. In Nehalem, Intel will replace the front-side bus model with "QuickPath Interconnect" (similar to Hypertransport), add on-die memory controllers, and tri-channel DDR3. All these changes will reportedly increase the available bandwidth to the processor, allowing it to interact with the computer at faster speeds.

Seems they are doing what AMD have already done. So I guess it'll be a new socket, as well for DDR3.

 

[slackpacker]

Like any computer its old before it hits your doorstep...

 

[330toSRT8]

Wife is blonde. Works every time.

Nice!

 

[JonR356]

No computer is future proof.

Generally, no one component (CPU etc) is worth a major upgrade, as the rest of the supporting architecture is likely to have moved on in step. So you either upgrade virtually the whole machine (if possible) or it will be more cost effective to just buy a new one.

In my opinion, an new 8x2.8 machine will sort most people's needs for some time to come.

 

[toke lahti]

Generally, no one component (CPU etc) is worth a major upgrade, as the rest of the supporting architecture is likely to have moved on in step. So you either upgrade virtually the whole machine (if possible) or it will be more cost effective to just buy a new one.

Why wouldn't it be cost effective to upgrade my 4x2.0 MP to 8x3.2 next year when those cpu's are just couple hundred bucks and it will quadruple my video compression power?

 

[Sesshi]

Look at the resale values for mac models from three years ago. That should tell you everything you need to know.

That people will pay over the odds as long as it's shiny and looks cool?

If you overbuy for domestic use in the way that many people buying Pros are, in the same way as buying a Dell Precision or an HP xw your machine is likely to be usable in gradually less then-demanding but still mainstream roles for a lot longer than a basic PC.

 

[diamond.g]

Why wouldn't it be cost effective to upgrade my 4x2.0 MP to 8x3.2 next year when those cpu's are just couple hundred bucks and it will quadruple my video compression power?

Intel has a knack for making older chips harder to find, thus making them more expensive than they should be. Especially for Workstation/Server grade chips.

 

[saltyzoo]

Look at the resale values for mac models from three years ago. That should tell you everything you need to know.

That people will pay over the odds as long as it's shiny and looks cool?

My post could be taken one of two ways.

1) If resale values are high then that indicates that the device is still useful therefore "future proof"

or

2) If resale values are high then you can get a large portion of your investment back in order to upgrade to the newest hardware.

Conversely, if resale values are low, then that indicates that the computer loses value very quickly.

 

[Lucy Brown]

Well I think that Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Soop53]

In this day and age where folks want something and they want it NOW, I would say...if you have the money for one now...buy it! It is AWESOME! Its a MAC!!! If you do not, save up, like in the old days and buy one when you have the money. Of course, when you do, there will be rumors that in the next six months the latest and greatest processor will be coming out.

 

[Roy]

In this day and age where folks want something and they want it NOW, I would say...if you have the money for one now...buy it! It is AWESOME! Its a MAC!!! If you do not, save up, like in the old days and buy one when you have the money. Of course, when you do, there will be rumors that in the next six months the latest and greatest processor will be coming out.

Of course if we go with the Mac Pro as an example (Rev. A to Rev. B) (8/7/06-1/8/08), then the current Mac Pro might be the latest and greatest for almost a year and a half.

 

[simie]

Here is a list of all the sockets that Intel has made.

Intel will change the sockets if only to generate new interest and to add new features to its processors. This indeed means big profits through advertising and sales.

But they won't kill the crappy Celeron of course.

We should always buy a computer to do a particular task not just to keep up with the Jones's. If in 5 years that computer does that task still extremely well then why waste money.

But if after 5 years that same computer struggles to do the task then look at either ugrading parts of the computer or replacing it.

The problem that we face is with software updates that require new processor features (new instructions) or newer hardware. Older computers may still be supported by the updates but remain restricted and we loose performance. So through not sticking to that version that ran fine and wanting the latest features our computers get old very quickly.



Intel Sockets

• 40 pin DIP - Intel 8086, Intel 8088
• 68 pin PLCC - Intel 80186, Intel 80286, Intel 80386
• Socket 1 - 80486
• Socket 2 - 80486
• Socket 3 - 80486 (3.3 V and 5 V) and compatibles
• Socket 4 - Intel Pentium 60/66 MHz
• Socket 5 - Intel Pentium 75-133 MHz; AMD K5; IDT WinChip C6, WinChip 2
• Socket 6 - Designed for the 80486, but little used
• Socket 7 - Intel Pentium, Pentium MMX; AMD K6; some Cyrix CPUs
• Socket 8 - Intel Pentium Pro
• Socket 370 - Intel Pentium III, Celeron; Cyrix III; VIA C3
• Socket 423 - Intel Pentium 4[4] and Celeron processors (Willamette core)
• Socket 478 - Intel Pentium 4, Celeron, Pentium 4 Extreme Edition[4], Pentium M Socket N (Northwood, Prescott, and Willamette cores)
• Socket 479 - Intel Pentium M and Celeron M (Banias and Dothan cores)
• Micro-FCBGA - Intel Mobile Celeron, Core 2 Duo (mobile), Core Duo, Core Solo, Celeron M, Pentium III (mobile), Mobile Celeron
• Socket 486 - 80486
• Socket 495 - Also known as PPGA-B495, used for Mobile P3 Coppermine and Celerons -
• Socket 603 - Intel Xeon (Northwood and Willamette cores)
• Socket 604 - Intel Xeon
• PAC418 - Intel Itanium
• PAC611 - Intel Itanium 2, HP PA-RISC 8800 and 8900
• Socket B (LGA 1366) - a new socket for future Intel CPUs incorporating the integrated memory controller and Intel QuickPath Interconnect.
• Socket H (LGA 715) - a future replacement for the current Socket T (LGA 775), without integrated memory controller and newer point-to-point processor interconnect.
• Socket J (also known as Socket 771 or LGA 771) - Intel Xeon (Woodcrest core)
• Socket M - Intel Core Solo, Intel Core Duo and Intel Core 2 Duo
• Socket N - Intel Dual-Core Xeon LV
• Socket P - Intel-based; replaces Socket 479 and Socket M. Released May 9th, 2007.
• Socket T (also known as Socket 775 or LGA 775) - Intel Pentium 4, Pentium D, Celeron D, Pentium Extreme Edition, Core 2 Duo, Core 2 Extreme, Celeron, Xeon 3000 series, Core 2 Quad (Northwood, Prescott, Conroe, Kentsfield, and Cedar Mill cores)