how long do you need to shut down your system?

Discussion in 'OS X Mavericks (10.9)' started by lesliewj, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. lesliewj macrumors newbie

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    May 5, 2013
    #1
    Hi everybody here, I want to ask you a question, how long do you need to shut down your Mavericks system DP4 or dp5? It usually spends above 15 seconds to shut it down, is it normal? because in my previews system,like Mavericks DP2,it needs only just about 2-3 seconds to shut down the system. it's very fast!

    by the way, if I start my system and do nothing, just shut it down, it's very fast, about two or three seconds, but if I open some applications, like pages, or text editor, it becomes very slow to shut it down.
     
  2. ultraspiracle macrumors member

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    Sep 21, 2012
    #2
    Funny you ask this, because DP5 is by far the fastest iteration of OS X since Lion 10.7.5 with regards to shutdown *on my system* - less that 5 seconds. This is amazing, since so many of us have been hounding each other about shutdown times.

    Now - this experience may not be universal. Can you do us all a big favor, open "console.app", scroll down to the bottom under "sa/system.log", and enter "timeout" in the search field? Please tell us if you have any processes that are "killed" after timing out for 20 seconds or more.

    Thanks!
     
  3. w0lf macrumors 65816

    w0lf

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    #3
    Still takes me way too long to shut down but at this point I don't even care anymore, if they never fix it I wouldn't even be surprised.
     
  4. ultraspiracle macrumors member

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    #4
    I'm beginning to think that all OS X installations are like snowflakes. I have no idea how some people get a well-behaved system while others still have the shutdown issue. A good install has happened to me twice (once with 10.8.5 12f17, and now with Mavericks DP5), only to think the shutdown issue is fixed and then be disappointed when it comes right back with the next Beta release.

    Believe me, I'll be backing up my entire hard drive and restoring it if the next Mav beta is squirrely with the shutdown...it bothers me so bad and is such a pain when you have to reboot into different OSs.

    Thus, if this beta keeps behaving itself on my system (which, so far, I don't see any deal-breakers), I'm happy to stay with a "Mav beta" till the end of time.
     
  5. ATC, Aug 9, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013

    ATC macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    I'm still suffering lengthy shutdowns (and boot ups to an extent) even with DP5. FWIW, the same is true of 10.8, at least on my system. So it's not a mavericks-specific issue, at least not for me.

    Edit: I should mention that performance on the whole has been greatly improved across the board with 10.9. The system and everything I run just feels way speedier than my 10.8 partition on the same system, but the shutdown and boot up are still slow for me.
     
  6. ultraspiracle macrumors member

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    Sep 21, 2012
    #6
    Yes, the 10.8.4 and 10.8.5 releases all suffer from slow shutdown.
     
  7. DiscardedPacket macrumors member

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    Mar 8, 2013
    #7
    The question I have is: why are you shutting down? :)

    I keep my macbook online/standby mode for weeks.
     
  8. Tander macrumors 6502a

    Tander

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    #8
    This is my first question too. I never reboot nor do I shutdown my MBP. Unless I really have to.
     
  9. ultraspiracle macrumors member

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    Sep 21, 2012
    #9
    Lots of reasons....Booting into different operating systems... portable computer where it's easier to shut down vs. going through and disconnecting external hardware...

    Also, some third party apps (MS office comes to mind), and others have a tendency to not perform very well unless there are periodic restarts. Sometime video and network settings need to be reset and the easiest way is to restart....I could go on...
     
  10. m4v3r1ck macrumors 68020

    m4v3r1ck

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    #10
    10.9.4 and 10.9.5 ?
     
  11. ultraspiracle macrumors member

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    #11
    No, that is correct as written and sorry for the confusion. The 10.9 releases (up to beta 5 now) also apparently suffer from slow shudown.
     
  12. dyn macrumors 68030

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    #12
    Only list the timeouts that occur after you've told the machine to shutdown. There can be ones before the shutdown, that's only noise in this case because they have nothing to do with the actual shutdown. So do watch the time when you hit shutdown.

    What would you define as being "lengthy"? I'd say that anything within 15 seconds is fast, within 30 seconds is normal (until complete power down that is). These shutdown times are seen with other desktop/laptop systems (non-OSX ones). Obviously shutdown times depend on your settings as well as the software that was running when you hit shutdown. If it has to go through a lot of them it will take longer then when none was running.
     
  13. lesliewj thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #13
    OK, if you say so, I think I can accept the time of shutting down. Mine is within 10 seconds.
     
  14. 53kyle macrumors 65816

    53kyle

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    #14
    Did I do something wrong? I have been updating mavericks since beta 1 and beta 5 is still like 30 seconds!

    ----------

    Really? My shutdown is 2-3 seconds if I use terminal commands that make it that way. That is also how lion 10.7.5 and snow leopard are, too bad snow leopard won't work on my 2012 MBP (not yet ;) )
     
  15. dyn macrumors 68030

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    #15
    You need to ask yourself if a shutdown in 2~3 seconds is the correct way of shutting down. When you run services, applications, etc. and you hit shutdown these need to be gracefully shutdown. If you don't you'll end up with data loss, data corruption...you know, nasty things. Usually apps are quick to shutdown but in some cases it needs a bit more time. It needs to write some data to disk or something. What you want is a proper shutdown. You need to ask yourself if that is possible within those 2~3 seconds (there are some possibilities if the app uses things like quick termination). Waiting 10 seconds isn't that much. People like Usain Bolt are able to run 100 meters in under 10 seconds. Try to do that yourself. 10 seconds are gone before you know it.

    In some cases there is a problem: somehow it doesn't want to shutdown or it takes too long. Windows 7 has this "force shutdown" option where the user can force the shutdown for cases like this, OS X doesn't. It seems to have some kind of timeout where it will automatically force a shutdown (not uncommon with operating systems). Some of us run into this issue and they'll see timeout errors in Console after they've issued a shutdown of the machine. That's when you need to look for the app/process causing the problem and see if you can fix it (maybe there's an update). Same thing for drivers (it could be a driver issue as well).

    Problem is a bit difficult because of what people define as being "fast" and "slow". Ask any technician and they'll tell you these are the most difficult to resolve. You'll always end up asking the person to show it and explain. Luckily using logging helps in this so do post logs!
     
  16. Mr Rabbit macrumors 6502a

    Mr Rabbit

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    #16
    I was thinking the same thing!

    You're not far off. Shutdown time depends on many, many, many different factors. If you simply upgraded an existing, older, well used/loved OS then boot & shutdown times likely won't be much different than what you're used to. If you created a fresh partition and installed 10.9 just to play with then you might see some extraordinary speeds in the boot/shutdown processes since it's a somewhat barebones installation. You can also look at cache sizes, background processes running, sleep image condition, Mac specs, etc...
     
  17. Krazy Bill macrumors 68030

    Krazy Bill

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    #17
    More than 5 seconds.


    Not if we're talking SSD's here.

    Seriously? Name one. Even Snow Leopard on a conventional drive was almost instantaneous. I think you're confusing startup with shutdown.

    According to the console logs, starting with 10.9 DP4 the timeouts were rectified. Shutdown is about 5 seconds now. (Again, SSD).
     
  18. dyn, Aug 13, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013

    dyn macrumors 68030

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    #18
    10 seconds is more than 5, 3600 is also more than 5.

    Oh yes we do. Even with ssd's. The disk is only part of the story, it's not the entire story. If a machine shutdowns it will sent out a signal to all the running processes/apps to shutdown. If the load on the machine is high it might take too long for that message to arrive. It might also be ignored by the application because it hangs or because of something else. In this case the disk does not play any role at all, yet the shutdown will be slowed down tremendously. It's only after having received that shutdown message that the process/app will start using things like the disk (eg to write whatever is in memory to disk). There are also varies shutdown types. Check out the manual for the shutdown command in OS X: SHUTDOWN(8). To give another example: in FreeBSD there is the command "reboot" and there is the command "shutdown -r now". In both cases it will shutdown the machine and reboot it. However, the way they do it is different. The latter is the more clean and proper version, the former a more quick and dirty way (I may have worded that a bit too simplistic).

    Just about any Linux distribution, Windows (every version), FreeBSD, AIX, Solaris and so on. In some cases these are much longer due to services and apps running on the machine. In a Windows environment with computers that are domain joined it is not uncommon to have a shutdown between 15 to 30 seconds. That's due to it being domain joined and the effect of policies rolled out. Simply put: the more complex the environment/computer the longer it will take to boot up and shutdown.

    Nice that you brought up startup and shutdown because they are indeed somewhat different. Shutdown usually has to shutdown everything that got started with boot up plus anything that you started up. In theory that means shutdown takes at least as long as boot up. In reality that doesn't happen because you start stuff and also quit them. What really needs to be shutdown at the end of the day varies (which explains why people are seeing fast shutdowns and slow shutdowns from time to time).
    The funny thing here is that nobody complains about the long boot times. This could be due to people being narrow minded, people simply not noticing that booting actual takes about 20 seconds (you get different screens so it's harder to estimate how long the overall process takes), shutdown is seen as more crucial (people wanting/needing to leave because they are late) and so on. It is quite intriguing why nobody complains about boot times that take about 20 seconds on average, yet lots of people start complaining when their machine has a shutdown time longer than 5 seconds. In the pc world they did start a process where they changed the BIOS process in order to speed up boot times with about 10 seconds (from what I've seen you could compare the overall boot time with that of a vm which also skips the BIOS part).

    Nice to see there are improvements!
     
  19. localhost8080 macrumors member

    localhost8080

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    Jun 18, 2012
    #19
    I don't shut mine down :|
    The only reason it restarts is when there is an update that requires a restart, apart from that I just shut the lid of my macbook air when I'm not using it.
    My current uptime is 17 days, 6 hours and 15 mins
     
  20. ultraspiracle, Aug 13, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013

    ultraspiracle macrumors member

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    #20
    "The funny thing here is that nobody complains about the long boot times. This could be due to people being narrow minded, people simply not noticing that booting actual takes about 20 seconds (you get different screens so it's harder to estimate how long the overall process takes), shutdown is seen as more crucial (people wanting/needing to leave because they are late) and so on. It is quite intriguing why nobody complains about boot times that take about 20 seconds on average, yet lots of people start complaining when their machine has a shutdown time longer than 5 seconds."

    Dyn, With a 2012 SSD MBP, bootup times are about 8 seconds with any OS X version. I have never seen a spinning-HD OS-X system boot up nearly this fast - more like 30 sec. - 1 min. Mine takes 5-8 seconds up, and 3-5 seconds down. It will restart from running back to useable config in less than 15 seconds.

    You raise a good point; if an SSD OS X machine started taking 30+ seconds to boot, I believe people would definitely raise hell about it. I certainly would.

    And my Win7 installation shuts down nearly instantly on this machine, incidentally.

    Again, this slow shutdown problem started with ML 10.8.2.... ML 10.8.1 was just fine.

    I agree with KB - Shutdown monitor repeatedly tries to kill the launchd and launchagents processes that are notorious for hanging on shutdown. Some of these processes previously claimed not to support "dirty/idle" exits. One of these was launchd.peruser.501 that also did not respond to a 1 sec. terminal hack timeout with ML 10.8.4-5 and Mav. DP4, when every other problematic process was successfully remedied by 1 sec. terminal timeout hacks. Therefore, it is highly noteworthy that Apple has remedied these processes to have a successful default 1 second kill with 10.9 DP5.

    KB, did you just say that the timeouts were fixed with 10.9 DP4? Or DP5? DP4 for me was slow as molasses and had all the old same processes hanging on shutdown. DP5 almost gets it right, but the ones that periodically hang in this release are periodic.daily, weekly and monthly in LaunchDaemons. These do respond to terminal hacks, however.

    If anyone is seeing these processes come up in verbose shutdown mode or in console log timeouts, try a terminal hack with a 1 second timeout. It should take care of the problem. DP5 behaves very well with shutdowns. Maybe it's headed in the right direction now, although others seem to have varying experiences with DP5.
     
  21. heyadrian macrumors member

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    Aug 14, 2011
    #21
    I'm not sure why you've got these issues? On my Early 2011 MBP I have startup times of about 5s after the chime, and shutdown of about 10s. Then again, I do have a SSD drive in there so that might make the difference.
     
  22. Krazy Bill macrumors 68030

    Krazy Bill

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    #22
    They wouldn't notice because these same people never shut down their machines to boot. :)

    Ditto. And Win8 is even faster for me.

    This is what I'm seeing... 1 second timeouts across the board. I haven't addressed these yet which would be easy enough. Trying to stay "hack free" and give 'em a chance to address these as well. (although I suspect they feel they already have).

    Yes, DP4.

    I knew Apple had addressed the timeout anomalies "some where" because by the time I installed DP5 the logs were entirely different. That said, I had terminal hacks in place since DP1 so I couldn't be sure when they were fixed and was curious. I nuked a drive and clean-installed each release from scratch noting the logs before updating to the next one. DP's 1, 2, 3 were all the same in this regard. DP4 first showed the fix to "authentication" and it's still gone in DP5 as well.
     
  23. ultraspiracle macrumors member

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    #23
    That's interesting....I did sequential upgrades through DP4, although my experience with DP4 was not good as far as timeouts. This time around I formatted and had to delta all the way through the updates via app store. Then I moved all my applications and system settings over from Mtn. Lion.
     
  24. q8girl macrumors newbie

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  25. lesliewj thread starter macrumors newbie

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    May 5, 2013
    #25
    Thanks a lot! You're absolutely right! I totally agree with what you said. 10 seconds, it's not that bad, compare to 5 seconds, it really doesn't make any difference to me.
     

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