How much do you earn?

[renewed]

I would need some proof of that. From what I have seen, the majority of financially independent people are college educated and did so earning a crust from someone else and then investing the money wisely and with due diligence. Some have been independent business owners and in that group the numbers of college educated is probably slightly above average in my experience.

Exactly. What I have bolded holds true. Some are business owners, others like one of my family members, are college educated or even plain hard working people who were smart with their money. She was a school teacher making ~$50k per year. She stayed in the same house, lived within means, paid her home and vehicle off and saved. She is now entirely financially independent and retired and although she draws retirement, she has the ability to cancel it if she wanted, live a comfortable lifestyle (the same, if not better that she was living while working) and never have to work another day in her life.

There is a book that I read a while back that said most of the time millionaires are the ones who live in middle-income communities, live in the same house for most of their life, drive 6+ year old vehicles yet have millions in their bank account. Then you have "credited millionaires". The ones who make $5000 a month house payments, have 13 credit card payments, lease their BMW and if they missed a week of work would go bankrupt.

 

[flopticalcube]

Exactly. What I have bolded holds true. Some are business owners, others like one of my family members, are college educated or even plain hard working people who were smart with their money. She was a school teacher making ~$50k per year. She stayed in the same house, lived within means, paid her home and vehicle off and saved. She is now entirely financially independent and retired and although she draws retirement, she has the ability to cancel it if she wanted, live a comfortable lifestyle (the same, if not better that she was living while working) and never have to work another day in her life.

There is a book that I read a while back that said most of the time millionaires are the ones who live in middle-income communities, live in the same house for most of their life, drive 6+ year old vehicles yet have millions in their bank account. Then you have "credited millionaires". The ones who make $5000 a month house payments, have 13 credit card payments, lease their BMW and if they missed a week of work would go bankrupt.

Spot on renewed.

 

[IndustrialSpace]

$100K

 

[flopticalcube]

Just doing that and applying it to independently wealthy friends should give you some insight. You don't have to go to college or university to learn this method and many unschooled, successful business people think along these terms while weighing every major business decision.

All fine and dandy. I still stand by my belief that the majority of financially independent people are college educated and that many of them did it by earning a salary and applying the savings with some foresight. Do you need to go to university to become wealthy? No. Can it be an advantage? Probably.

EDIT: I'll just add a quote from the Forbes study of billionaires. http://www.forbes.com/2000/06/29/feat.html

The vast majority of the 234 U.S. billionaires whose education level is tracked by Forbes magazine through 1999 finished college; 100 have some form of advanced degree,

 

[63dot]

All fine and dandy. I still stand by my belief that the majority of financially independent people are college educated and that many of them did it by earning a salary and applying the savings with some foresight. Do you need to go to university to become wealthy? No. Can it be an advantage? Probably.

And people stand by the belief that Y2K was going to be the end of the world. It still does not make it true. Why waste your time believing something utterly ridiculous?

Show me one reliable source that says the financially independent have a college education or are more likely to? Actually, don't waste your time, you won't find that reliable source. Like I said, I did six years in college studying just that. Either I am lying or I am incredibly bad at research and statistics, and Harvard business school and their methods are full of sh**.

Guess what, more millionaires have two arms as opposed to being an amputee. So does that mean that having two arms means you will become financially independent? Does that mean having one arm puts you at a complete disadvantage? If I am a woman, should I get a sex change so it will put me in the company of Gates, Jobs, Woz, Ellison, and Allen? If anybody presents to you a stupid argument that education=financial independence, and you believe it, you do so at your own peril.

After your search, then go to the library and read one of the two books I mentioned (and others mentioned). I could paraphrase what they are saying, but they are rather quick reading and I prefer you get it from the authors' words.

 

[Bostonaholic]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Need I say more? Some people are really making some stretches.

 

[dukebound85]

the smart ones dont need college

college is for us saps who are hard workers and easily molded into economic slaves lol

 

[63dot]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Need I say more? Some people are really making some stretches.

This is what I studied in school and I can't seem to convince him/her.

I think the longstanding myth that college=good corporate job=climbing the ladder=retiring financially independent is the perfect example of people following that myth.

 

[flopticalcube]

Show me one reliable source that says the financially independent have a college education or are more likely to?

I just did above. The US Census Bureau could probably add to that as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Need I say more? Some people are really making some stretches.

Since only about 25% of the population is college educated but 80% of billionaires are, while not the only reason, I would consider it a contributing factor and a strong one at that.

Since we are quoting Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States#Social_class_and_education

In all definitions of the top 1% "Ivy League education common".

 

[63dot]

the smart ones dont need college

college is for us saps who are hard workers and easily molded into economic slaves lol

This is very true. I think independent thinking, and thinking outside of the box, are key to being successful. And if you are sufficiently successful, you have a chance at financial independence.

Those millionaires who drive that ford f-150 used truck but with a ton of cash in the bank/investments are far better off than that ivy league yuppie with a leased BMW.

 

[renewed]

This is what I studied in school and I can't seem to convince him/her.

I think the longstanding myth that college=good corporate job=climbing the ladder=retiring financially independent is the perfect example of people following that myth.

College can open doors, benefit one with a more broad education, and reinforce principals that have led people to success... etc...

However it is not the absolute and imperfect road to success. For example, some people would benefit from spending $60,000 over four years for a college education and then landing a job. Others would rather take that $60,000 and invest into a company.

Some people's companies fail and some people can't land a job out of college because of a number of factors.

There may be a common theme for some millionaires but I honestly believe it comes down to the individual and what bodes best for them.

I honestly believe people put way too much emphasis on college and also way to much emphasis on the type of college. Someone making A's in a community college nursing program is most likely going to land a better job than someone making C's at a prestigious university nursing program, for example.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

One worrying thing I see more and more these days is the notion that the quest for personal wealth is an inherently virtuous and laudable thing. It sounds like a perversion of older Puritan ideals, and it has found extreme expression in the weird and disturbing world of prosperity theology.

 

[63dot]

I just did above. The US Census Bureau could probably add to that as well.



Since only about 25% of the population is college educated but 80% of billionaires are, while not the only reason, I would consider it a contributing factor and a strong one at that.

Since we are quoting Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States#Social_class_and_education

In all definitions of the top 1% "Ivy League education common".

Take a closer look at his post. Do you think that the ivy college education was a factor in those who are independently wealthy? Or, could it be that many independently wealthy were from rich families to begin with who could easily afford that ivy league education for their children who would later inherit the family fortune?

 

[flopticalcube]

Take a closer look at his post. Do you think that the ivy college education was a factor in those who are independently wealthy? Or, could it be that many independently wealthy were from rich families to begin with who could easily afford that ivy league education for their children who would later inherit the family fortune?

Inherited wealth amongst the elite is another myth.

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2008/01/14/the-decline-of-inherited-money/

1. According to a study of Federal Reserve data conducted by NYU professor Edward Wolff, for the nation’s richest 1%, inherited wealth accounted for only 9% of their net worth in 2001, down from 23% in 1989. (The 2001 number was the latest available.)
2. According to a study by Prince & Associates, less than 10% of today’s multi-millionaires cited “inheritance” as their source of wealth.
3. A study by Spectrem Group found that among today’s millionaires, inherited wealth accounted for just 2% of their total sources of wealth.

 

[dukebound85]

One worrying thing I see more and more these days is the notion that the quest for personal wealth is an inherently virtuous and laudable thing. It sounds like a perversion of older Puritan ideals, and it has found extreme expression in the weird and disturbing world of prosperity theology.

I agree. I hate how to be considered "successful" by many, you need to have money

I for one, have discovered I do not care for money as long as I can afford a place to live and food. I am not talking fancy places, just modest things

I have no issue with saving for things I want and actually have found that the quest to save so I can go out to eat or whatnot makes the experience much more meaningful to me

I have no desire to be abundantly wealthy, just financially secure (being having a job I enjoy that pays the bills). Money largely affects people in a negative way. Relationships change from being genuine to artificial I would venture.

If I ever became wealthy by circumstance, I would love to be the guy nobody knows was wealthy. For example, I love how Warren Buffet lives in a small house in Nebraska

 

[63dot]

College can open doors, benefit one with a more broad education, and reinforce principals that have led people to success... etc...

However it is not the absolute and imperfect road to success. For example, some people would benefit from spending $60,000 over four years for a college education and then landing a job. Others would rather take that $60,000 and invest into a company.

Some people's companies fail and some people can't land a job out of college because of a number of factors.

There may be a common theme for some millionaires but I honestly believe it comes down to the individual and what bodes best for them.

I honestly believe people put way too much emphasis on college and also way to much emphasis on the type of college. Someone making A's in a community college nursing program is most likely going to land a better job than someone making C's at a prestigious university nursing program, for example.

Well said.

People put so much emphasis on education, get hogtied with giant student loans, while the dude who put his $60K into his plumbing business is laughing all the way to the bank. I put my money on that plumber, electrician, real estate agent than the vast majority of kids out there who have their bachelor's and/or graduate degree.

I am not knocking education at all and the best thing somebody I once knew (had master's degree) told me was, "Education is not to make you rich, or even prepare you for a job, it's simply to enrich your life." Words of wisdom.

 

[63dot]

Inherited wealth amongst the elite is another myth.

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2008/01/14/the-decline-of-inherited-money/

Read what Robert Kiyosaki has to say about the myths you just posted.

That WSJ post is fun reading, but is using selective facts to state a case.

The truth was best put in the fictional movie "Wall Street" when Gordon Gekko told his associate Bud Fox that most people who are rich inherit their wealth (it's between 2/3rds and 3/4s) and the rest of them usually make their money through securities or real estate. So far, there's no college out there that teaches those skills reliably well.

Mcrain, a tax lawyer and Macrumors member, said it best when he said his law professor said, "Choose your parents wisely".

 

[dukebound85]

Read what Robert Kiyosaki has to say about the myths you just posted.

The truth was best put in the fictional movie "Wall Street" when Gordon Gekko told his associate Bud Fox that most people who are rich inherit their wealth (it's between 2/3rds and 3/4s) and the rest of them usually make their money through securities or real estate. So far, there's no college out there that teaches those skills reliably well.

Mcrain, a tax lawyer and Macrumors member, said it best when he said his law professor said, "Choose your parents wisely".

For that reason, I have mixed views on inherited wealth.

 

[steve2112]

Read what Robert Kiyosaki has to say about the myths you just posted.

The truth was best put in the fictional movie "Wall Street" when Gordon Gekko told his associate Bud Fox that most people who are rich inherit their wealth (it's between 2/3rds and 3/4s) and the rest of them usually make their money through securities or real estate. So far, there's no college out there that teaches those skills reliably well.

Mcrain, a tax lawyer and Macrumors member, said it best when he said his law professor said, "Choose your parents wisely".

Actually, The Millionaire Next Door seemed to dispute this a bit. The vast majority of the millionaires (somewhere around 70-80% if I remember correctly) he surveyed were first generation millionaires. However, I have seen a lot of studies that show when you get to the truly wealthy (upper 1% of the country), the majority of them are from old money.

Edit: Forgot to address another point I want to make.

There is a book that I read a while back that said most of the time millionaires are the ones who live in middle-income communities, live in the same house for most of their life, drive 6+ year old vehicles yet have millions in their bank account. Then you have "credited millionaires". The ones who make $5000 a month house payments, have 13 credit card payments, lease their BMW and if they missed a week of work would go bankrupt.

That actually sounds like the premise to Thomas Stanley's latest book Stop Acting Rich. His research shows this kind of info. Real millionaires tended to live below their means in middle to upper middle class neighborhoods, paid cash for cars, drove trucks and American made sedans, etc. I forget the numbers, but lots of people living in $1 million plus homes did not have a million dollar net worth when you take into account all their liabilities.

 

[MattSepeta]

I wish

My view on inherited wealth: I want it!

But that does not give me the right to tax my neighbor who did inherit his wealth.

One of my goals is to leave a boatload of money for my kids when I die.

 

[63dot]

Actually, The Millionaire Next Door seemed to dispute this a bit. The vast majority of the millionaires (somewhere around 70-80% if I remember correctly) he surveyed were first generation millionaires. However, I have seen a lot of studies that show when you get to the truly wealthy (upper 1% of the country), the majority of them are from old money.

The upper 1% percent, actually upper 2% percent if you want to fall into the category of financially independent (never having to have to work if one chooses) is mostly what I was referring to. That's the inherited wealth of old money.

There are a lot of people who are new millionaires who will either lose it, or continue to have to work and not be financially independent. Their million could largely be tied up in their house, small portfolio, and/or business.

The financially independent person, if they chose to, could literally have a million dollars or more, just sitting in an account somewhere, have their house paid off, and be in a situation that if their business fails, they are still far more than safe.

But for the person who wants to be somewhat comfortable and have a tiny bit of job security over a non college graduate, I say go ahead and get your college degree. But again, to be financially independent, and if you are not in that majority of financial independents who are old money, then be your own boss to join the ranks of that 2% percent which is financially independent.

 

[ouimetnick]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/531.21.10 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.4 Mobile/7B367 Safari/531.21.10)

I get decent am out from my paper route

 

[chstr]

I'm a musician and music teacher and can make anywhere between 50k and 75k in a year. But I take a lot of vacation, at least 10 weeks per year. If I worked harder I could prob make more but I'm lazy :/

 

[flopticalcube]

The upper 1% percent, actually upper 2% percent if you want to fall into the category of financially independent (never having to have to work if one chooses) is mostly what I was referring to. That's the inherited wealth of old money.

There are a lot of people who are new millionaires who will either lose it, or continue to have to work and not be financially independent. Their million could largely be tied up in their house, small portfolio, and/or business.

The financially independent person, if they chose to, could literally have a million dollars or more, just sitting in an account somewhere, have their house paid off, and be in a situation that if their business fails, they are still far more than safe.

But for the person who wants to be somewhat comfortable and have a tiny bit of job security over a non college graduate, I say go ahead and get your college degree. But again, to be financially independent, and if you are not in that majority of financial independents who are old money, then be your own boss to join the ranks of that 2% percent which is financially independent.

Can you prove any of this without resorting to a movie quote?

EDIT: Because I have proof to the contrary

https://www.pnc.com/webapp/unsec/Re...ERES&CACHEID=a1d7f9004f4a90719ec39f267cb633c4

PNC Wealth Management Wealth and Values Survey: Earned Wealth vs. Inherited Wealth April, 2008

Vast Majority of Wealthy Americans’ Assets Are From Earned Sources

Earned Wealth
89%
Earned from: Occupation or Employee Stock Options
49%
Earned from: Investments
26%
Earned from: Business Ownership
11%
Earned from: Sale of a Business
3%
Inherited/Other Wealth
11%
From: Inheritance/Trust Fund
8%
From: Another Way
3%

 

[DoFoT9]

got a new job working at IBM - making roughly $20k aus before tax. im a uni student in final year