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Can you prove any of this without resorting to a movie quote?

Yes, read the books everyone is mentioning on this thread and then come back to this thread. One can pull anything they want to prove off the internet, especially wikipedia. You can even add "facts" to wikipedia.

Small internet articles or surveys hype one part or another of a statistic, but what you need is a consensus. Anyway, read "The Millionaire Next Door". That being said, I totally respect that you have a high respect for education and I am with you on this. I am not disagreeing and saying not to get an education. It's a worthy investment.

But before you go out and say that there is any relationship between college and being independently wealthy, at least read a book on it. If you can read more than one book. If you are ambitious, get a degree in financial management, human resources management, personal finance, or economics. You may not like what you read, or what you learn, but it can only help you.

Do you think that after two degrees that I was happy to find out that there was almost no statistically significant relationship of having a college education to being financially independent? I had to swallow my pride and rethink the myth that was that college=wealth.
 
Small internet articles or surveys hype one part or another of a statistic, but what you need is a consensus. Anyway, read "The Millionaire Next Door". That being said, I totally respect that you have a high respect for education and I am with you on this.
That book tends to agree with me. Most wealth is from earned income saved and invested prudently. Besides, anyone can write a book on how to be rich. In fact, its probably one of the easiest ways to become wealthy. ;)
 
That book tends to agree with me. Most wealth is from earned income saved and invested prudently. Besides, anyone can write a book on how to be rich. In fact, its probably one of the easiest ways to become wealthy. ;)

Hey, I agree you can make one million and be new money, but it's not the point I am getting at. It's about financial independence and how that relates to college vs. entrepreneurship. Sure some entrepreneurs have a college degree, but most I have met don't, and most with a college degree I have met are not business owners. They don't have to be separate types of people, but they almost always are.

Yes, about making good money writing about finance? Heck, that is one thing I can agree with you on. There are so many flavors of the month in the personal finance book world. :)
 
That book tends to agree with me. Most wealth is from earned income saved and invested prudently. Besides, anyone can write a book on how to be rich. In fact, its probably one of the easiest ways to become wealthy. ;)

See my post from above.

Want a free tip on how to get rich? Write a book entitled How To Get Rich.

dangit, now I've publicized my get rich quick scheme...
 
See my post from above.

Let's put these posts together, slap a shiny cover on it, get Arn's permission, and take it to a book publisher.

Let's call it something like, "Different theories on how to get rich" by anonymous Mac users. :)
 
That book tends to agree with me. Most wealth is from earned income saved and invested prudently. Besides, anyone can write a book on how to be rich. In fact, its probably one of the easiest ways to become wealthy. ;)

To be fair, that book isn't about how to get rich. The authors simply did a fairly long and in-depth study into millionaires. I dug up my copy, and found some of the stats:

About 80% were first generation millionaires.

About 2/3 of them were self-employed. Interesting note here: self-employed people make up 20% of the population, but made up 2/3 of the millionaires in the survey.

Four out of five were college grads. 18% had master's degrees, 8% had law degrees, 6% medical degrees, and 6% had PhDs.

On average, they invested around 20% of the household income.
 
To be fair, that book isn't about how to get rich. The authors simply did a fairly long and in-depth study into millionaires. I dug up my copy, and found some of the stats:

About 80% were first generation millionaires.

About 2/3 of them were self-employed. Interesting note here: self-employed people make up 20% of the population, but made up 2/3 of the millionaires in the survey.

Four out of five were college grads. 18% had master's degrees, 8% had law degrees, 6% medical degrees, and 6% had PhDs.

On average, they invested around 20% of the household income.
So its a draw then. 80% are college educated (4X the national avg). 66% are self-employed (3X the national avg, lots of doctors and lawyers in there, I bet). The last line is by FAR the most significant, I would suspect. Higher than average income coupled with aggressive savings and an eye for investment potential.
 
So its a draw then. 80% are college educated (4X the national avg). 66% are self-employed (3X the national avg, lots of doctors and lawyers in there, I bet). The last line is by FAR the most significant, I would suspect. Higher than average income coupled with aggressive savings and an eye for investment potential.

Pretty much. One thing I left out that he really hammers home is that they were very frugal. There's all kinds of stats about the average costs of homes, cars, clothes, etc. Basically, they weren't the type to buy custom tailored Brooks Brothers suits, Porsches, etc. As Dave Ramsey says, none of this is some kind of secret: Live on less than you make, and save and invest a portion of your income, and you will do very well.
 
Pretty much. One thing I left out that he really hammers home is that they were very frugal. There's all kinds of stats about the average costs of homes, cars, clothes, etc. Basically, they weren't the type to buy custom tailored Brooks Brothers suits, Porsches, etc. As Dave Ramsey says, none of this is some kind of secret: Live on less than you make, and save and invest a portion of your income, and you will do very well.

Frugal and living below one's means, paying no attention to labels and status, and taking a long term approach to independent wealth are the ingredients for success for baking that cake.

A college degree is just an incidental for people who become rich the frugal/low key way. In no way does it play a part in the overall recipe of that cake, and is just the mint leaf on the side of the plate, and not a key ingredient, or ingredient at all for the cake. The "cake" being the final product of being independently wealthy.
 
About $12,000 a year on ebay. Im 17 and have been doing this for a few years now.
 
Frugal and living below one's means, paying no attention to labels and status, and taking a long term approach to independent wealth are the ingredients for success for baking that cake.

A college degree is just an incidental for people who become rich the frugal/low key way. In no way does it play a part in the overall recipe of that cake, and is just the mint leaf on the side of the plate, and not a key ingredient, or ingredient at all for the cake. The "cake" being the final product of being independently wealthy.

But it is key in increasing the means below which you can live.
 
But it is key in increasing the means below which you can live.

my god, man, read the book

It's not the income, it's the ratio of spending. The author makes a strong point that you can be working class, middle class, or upper class and make yourself independently wealthy. The one who makes more only slightly makes the point of critical mass happen sooner. And the upper class person, the one with that likely tawny degree, will have student loans with interest.

Realize the upper class person will likely get tied to a slightly better car, clothes, knick knacks, and a higher tax of course.

The plan is to live a lifestyle below what means you have, consistently and long term, whatever that is.
 
my god, man, read the book

It's not the income, it's the ratio of spending. The author makes a strong point that you can be working class, middle class, or upper class and make yourself independently wealthy. The one who makes more only slightly makes the point of critical mass happen sooner. And the upper class person, the one with that likely tawny degree, will have student loans with interest.

Realize the upper class person will likely get tied to a slightly better car, clothes, knick knacks, and a higher tax of course.

The plan is to live a lifestyle below what means you have, consistently and long term, whatever that is.

Yes yes yes. Anyone can get rich by living below their means. But where is the fun in that? Should it be our goal in life to work hard and hoard cash just so it won't be spent?

Live life like there won't be a tomorrow. Eventually you will be right, and you had fun getting there.

Hickman
 
my god, man, read the book

It's not the income, it's the ratio of spending. The author makes a strong point that you can be working class, middle class, or upper class and make yourself independently wealthy. The one who makes more only slightly makes the point of critical mass happen sooner. And the upper class person, the one with that likely tawny degree, will have student loans with interest.

Realize the upper class person will likely get tied to a slightly better car, clothes, knick knacks, and a higher tax of course.

The plan is to live a lifestyle below what means you have, consistently and long term, whatever that is.
That is not necessarily true and simply a choice individuals make. The more you make the more you can save. Most degrees have lifetime earnings supplement of over $100000 after expenses. You can choose to spend or save that. Its not much but it does get you there sooner. I have lived it, I don't need a book to tell me my life's story. :D
 
1) self-employed people are more likely to be millionaires simply because they have alot invested in their business - including the massive amount of debt.

2) those figures that say how many people are millionaires generally include real estate, so that skews everything up.

i would be more interested in liquid assets. its relatively easy to go out and take out a 300,000 loan today and then say you are worth 300,000 more money than before you got the loan.

many self-employed people are miserable because they have all their wealth tied up in a business that could never be sold due to either lack of business knowledge or general poor business outlook. they mainly have it set up in a way that they can take out a pretty normal annual salary from the business but not much more.
 
1) self-employed people are more likely to be millionaires simply because they have alot invested in their business - including the massive amount of debt.

2) those figures that say how many people are millionaires generally include real estate, so that skews everything up.

i would be more interested in liquid assets. its relatively easy to go out and take out a 300,000 loan today and then say you are worth 300,000 more money than before you got the loan.

many self-employed people are miserable because they have all their wealth tied up in a business that could never be sold due to either lack of business knowledge or general poor business outlook. they mainly have it set up in a way that they can take out a pretty normal annual salary from the business but not much more.

Not exactly. Net worth is defined as assets minus liabilities. A loan for $300k would be a liability, as would any debt.The average net worth in the survey was around $4 mil. The average house was around $300k. Granted, this was in 1996, but still.
 
That is not necessarily true and simply a choice individuals make. The more you make the more you can save. Most degrees have lifetime earnings supplement of over $100000 after expenses. You can choose to spend or save that. Its not much but it does get you there sooner. I have lived it, I don't need a book to tell me my life's story. :D

I totally used to believe your point of view.

When I started actually seeing those fancy MBAs in their BMWs and Italian suits, I saw that the vast majority of these high earners actually spent more than they made. They had more credit card offers with higher limits and almost all of these people had debt and if they had any cash in the bank, it was only for nice toys (adult toys) or vacations.

I look back before college and when I spent my late teens and most of my 20s as a blue collar guy and there were plenty of very frugal peers I knew who invested wisely and widely and played a long term game plan for success. They lived within their means and had their own small businesses. It was a mindset the blue collar people here had. The most extreme success story was a grocery store clerk who stayed at his mediocre job and bought fixer uppers in bad areas. In time he eventually had ten houses that he got working (at least into a state of working legally :), not mansions mind you) and by age 55 he was financially independent. Since this is silicon valley, you may need about $3 million in cash/houses paid for to be truly independent where you don't have to work anymore, or neither do your descendents.

One lady I know had the high profile high tech job here, had to keep up with the Jonses to help make San Jose a destination for the new rich and she ended up with $300K life savings (cash) at the end of her life. She could have had more but the nice clothes and frequent car changes go with the territory in big cities with high salaries. There was no way she was going to be independently wealthy here so she moved to rural Maine where she bought a giant house for $36K cash, got a rugged used vehicle, and is now financially independent. Her path was moving to an area where $300K was what Bob Brinker would call financial critical mass. It's different for all areas so a mere millionaire with one million may or may not be financially independent.

Also look back at the post that talks about professional sports players who made a lot but usually ended up broke or in debt.

Again, it's not what you make, it's what you save vs. your current income. And with what you save, long term, it's investing wisely and diversifying and avoiding get rich quick schemes. College has little or no relationship to this. With 30 years in the working field, the ones I have seen really make it big were not those MBAs, but regular humble working people who lived simply, save, and invested.

But yes, there is the occasional plumber or construction worker who saved and played the money game well and decided, at age 40, to get his college degree and MBA, just for kicks. Many of those people fall into your statistic of rich and educated. Adult learners, many of them already set up financially, are fast becoming the norm and not the exception. To add to that, I have never met anybody more interested in every aspect of going to class as that older person who went for their education for the joy of learning. They are the ones who got the As in every class. They are the ones who often know more than the professors. For this purpose alone, I wish all could go to college and get their associate's, bachelor's, or graduate education.

Online learning has really made this an accessible possibility.
 
Not exactly. Net worth is defined as assets minus liabilities. A loan for $300k would be a liability, as would any debt.The average net worth in the survey was around $4 mil. The average house was around $300k. Granted, this was in 1996, but still.

When dot.com was heating up, $300K couldn't buy you an outhouse in high tech related cities. Today, people literally walk away from those California homes. At least it gave me a job maintaining them. ;)

I heard Las Vegas, once the place to strike it rich with real estate, took a hard hit, too. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, and I guess that would include foreclosed houses and even entire housing neighborhoods.

Hey Steve, I have an idea. Maybe we could have Nasa train their budding astronauts for Mars landing trips in Vegas. It's hot, desolate, and not full of any intelligent life!! Even the bacteria moved out after the crash.
 
When dot.com was heating up, $300K couldn't buy you an outhouse in high tech related cities. Today, people literally walk away from those California homes.

Owners might walk away, but you still can't buy them from the bank. Even today, I can't buy on $300K anywhere I'd want to live. :(
 
Not exactly. Net worth is defined as assets minus liabilities. A loan for $300k would be a liability, as would any debt.The average net worth in the survey was around $4 mil. The average house was around $300k. Granted, this was in 1996, but still.

my comment did not talk about net worth.

i was simply referring to how small business owners are not in such great financial condition that previous commenters said and although surveys might say one think, the average joe doesn't subtract their liabilities when saying how rich they are.

you dont go..oh well i have a 1 million house, although i only put 10% down on it. you go i have 1 million of real estate.
 
you dont go..oh well i have a 1 million house, although i only put 10% down on it. you go i have 1 million of real estate.

I don't know anyone that does that. I'd say that I have a hundred grand worth of equity in a house.

You must live in the Florida version of Scottsdale - home of the thirty thousand dollar millionaire.
 
Again, it's not what you make, it's what you save vs. your current income. And with what you save, long term, it's investing wisely and diversifying and avoiding get rich quick schemes. College has little or no relationship to this. With 30 years in the working field, the ones I have seen really make it big were not those MBAs, but regular humble working people who lived simply, save, and invested.


Yep. For a real life example of this, check out the story of Oseola McCarty.

When dot.com was heating up, $300K couldn't buy you an outhouse in high tech related cities. Today, people literally walk away from those California homes. At least it gave me a job maintaining them. ;)

I heard Las Vegas, once the place to strike it rich with real estate, took a hard hit, too. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, and I guess that would include foreclosed houses and even entire housing neighborhoods.

Hey Steve, I have an idea. Maybe we could have Nasa train their budding astronauts for Mars landing trips in Vegas. It's hot, desolate, and not full of any intelligent life!! Even the bacteria moved out after the crash.

Like I said, the numbers in the original book are from 1996, so they are a bit dated now. Real estate is amazing, though. Even today, $300k around here will get me a 2000 sq ft house on a lake.

The Vegas market is really weird. Talk about a roller coaster ride. Before the recession, I remember hearing that Las Vegas was the fastest growing metro area in the country. Now, you can't give away houses. I've only been to Vegas once, but I have to say your assesment is pretty accurate.

my comment did not talk about net worth.

i was simply referring to how small business owners are not in such great financial condition that previous commenters said and although surveys might say one think, the average joe doesn't subtract their liabilities when saying how rich they are.

you dont go..oh well i have a 1 million house, although i only put 10% down on it. you go i have 1 million of real estate.

That was my point. Most business owners aren't going to say stuff like that. Most of them know to subtract liabilities and such, at least the ones in business long enough to become wealthy. The ones who don't become a statistic in the number of failed businesses every year. Another fun stat from that book was that the average person the authors interviewed could live about 10-12 years simply on their existing liquid assets, with no other growth or further income. That is a true sign of a millionaire. I'd say a 10 year emergency fund is pretty sweet.
 
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