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How much money should realistically be put into a 20+ year old computer
- Thread starter Astro13
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That's entirely subjective. Some would say nothing, others would say however much makes you happy and occupies your time as a fun hobby.
It's unfortunate that a lot of components have gone up in price due to their rarity, but since RAM and hard drives are generic components (and thus cheaper) that's usually a good place to start if you want to do upgrades.
It's unfortunate that a lot of components have gone up in price due to their rarity, but since RAM and hard drives are generic components (and thus cheaper) that's usually a good place to start if you want to do upgrades.
Several years back I got a G4 Quicksilver. I had always wanted that Mac and at the time I owned no G5s. It was my fervent desire to max that Mac out to the best of my ability. At work I had a MacPro using three displays. So naturally, the G4 had to have six. 
A couple years after I got that Mac I had done every thing I could. It had a 1.8GHz Sonnet Duet (dual G4 processor), 1.5GB ram, three or four SATA drives larger than 1TB and a Blueray drive. It had three GPUs so I could have six displays attached, Bluetooth 2, USB 2.0 and probably some other stuff I've forgotten by this point.
It also had issues staying powered on for more than an hour or so. I leave my computers on 24/7 so this became a big problem. It also started to eat PCI SATA cards and often refused to reboot or start up. I'd also bought parts for it that ultimately I could not use for one reason or another.
WHEN it was running, it rivaled low end PowerMac G5 performance. But I was spending more time fixing it than I was using it. So, I finally just ended it all by getting a 2.3DC PowerMac G5. I used that for a few months and then ended up with my Quad (I still have the 2.3DC). The Quad was designed to do everything I was doing with the QS by modding it and I didn't have to worry about it freezing up.
So, that's my suggestion. Spends as much money to get what you want out of it. When it becomes burdensome, then that's the time to stop spending money on it.
PS. My PowerMac G3 B&W benefitted from what I learned with the G4. It was minimally modified and put to a specific use it was capable of (server).
A couple years after I got that Mac I had done every thing I could. It had a 1.8GHz Sonnet Duet (dual G4 processor), 1.5GB ram, three or four SATA drives larger than 1TB and a Blueray drive. It had three GPUs so I could have six displays attached, Bluetooth 2, USB 2.0 and probably some other stuff I've forgotten by this point.
It also had issues staying powered on for more than an hour or so. I leave my computers on 24/7 so this became a big problem. It also started to eat PCI SATA cards and often refused to reboot or start up. I'd also bought parts for it that ultimately I could not use for one reason or another.
WHEN it was running, it rivaled low end PowerMac G5 performance. But I was spending more time fixing it than I was using it. So, I finally just ended it all by getting a 2.3DC PowerMac G5. I used that for a few months and then ended up with my Quad (I still have the 2.3DC). The Quad was designed to do everything I was doing with the QS by modding it and I didn't have to worry about it freezing up.
So, that's my suggestion. Spends as much money to get what you want out of it. When it becomes burdensome, then that's the time to stop spending money on it.
PS. My PowerMac G3 B&W benefitted from what I learned with the G4. It was minimally modified and put to a specific use it was capable of (server).
OSX 10.4.11 Server.
The B&W G3 is a tower. I have a PCI-SATA card installed so I could use eSATA with a 2TB RAID external drive I have. The Mac also has two Gigabit NICs (Network Interface Cards) installed and I run it headless (no monitor).
Server…
Thanks to the generosity of a forum member, I now have a 450mhz PowerMac G3 running OS X 10.4.11 Server. I have a Firewire drive dock on the way and then this Mac will be handling my Time Machine backups as well as any other server uses I can put it to. 1GB Ram, 1x40GB HD, 1x120GB HD. PS...
forums.macrumors.com
Or rather I did. It started developing problems a year or so back, so it's in the garage now. The 2TB RAID is now attached to my MacPro. I do however, continue to use a 500mhz PowerMac G4 with the same setup as the G3 to share a 6TB drive to my network.
Ah, so like a NAS. I can’t really do that with mine as it’s the IMac version, so it has that CRT in the casing, and it’s impossible to fix anything in that machine, plus, it has an arcing fly back, so I’m scared to use it as I don’t have the experience to fix it myself
Only put money into it if you want to. As you're asking I assume you want to, so my subjective answer is: $70 bucks.
$15 for PATA/SATA adapter
$20 for 120gb SSD
$15 for 2x 512mb pc133 SDRAM
$10 for 1/2 AA 3.6V lithium batteries
$10 for Thermal grease
I'd stop there if it were me. That gets the old spinner out of there, updates to a SSD and maxes ram. It also gets a fresh pram battery in there and while you're in there you can repaste the cpu as the oem paste is almost assuredly dust. I think that maintenance make sense if you are wanting to use the slot loader in any capacity.
The cool thing about this is that all these bobs n bits are upcyclable into other machines if you want and the thermal grease obviously can be used for refreshing other machines you may have. Conversely, if you already have some of this stuff in a parts box, that $70 knocks down considerably. Best of luck to you
$15 for PATA/SATA adapter
$20 for 120gb SSD
$15 for 2x 512mb pc133 SDRAM
$10 for 1/2 AA 3.6V lithium batteries
$10 for Thermal grease
I'd stop there if it were me. That gets the old spinner out of there, updates to a SSD and maxes ram. It also gets a fresh pram battery in there and while you're in there you can repaste the cpu as the oem paste is almost assuredly dust. I think that maintenance make sense if you are wanting to use the slot loader in any capacity.
The cool thing about this is that all these bobs n bits are upcyclable into other machines if you want and the thermal grease obviously can be used for refreshing other machines you may have. Conversely, if you already have some of this stuff in a parts box, that $70 knocks down considerably. Best of luck to you
I actually spent something like 120€ for my iMac G3 and I'm proud of it .
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It's not entirely true that a system like the G3 iMac can't do the internet, because while it can't do the modern internet, it can connect to resources out there, and there are software tools that work to some degree. I've even (very slowly) gone on macintoshgarden and retrieved software on a 68040 using Netscape.
But as has been said before, in working condition, any old system can still do exactly what it ever could with era-appropriate software, so for example, I can still design, typeset and layout a magazine on my Classic II, model business finances on a DOS box, or perform stock and inventory control and management on a PDQ. What's often really great about these systems is actually that they can't do the internet and thus distract from their core uses.
Also, that thanks to places like the garden, almost all the software that used to cost a fortune is now available just to download, so most of us have far greater breadth of uses we could put an old system to now than we could have realistically afforded then.
A G3 iMac is a capable and quite powerful system. It can be competently used for editing home movies with great production values, sophisticated photo/image editing, layout and pre-press work, is an excellent platform for even professional level writing, can be used for quite a few games even.... not to mention serious business use.
How much to spend on it depends on what you want. If just a shelf queen to admire, then you don't need to spend anything, otherwise it really isn't all that expensive to upgrade RAM and switch to a solid state hard drive, both of which will also help improve performance.
But as has been said before, in working condition, any old system can still do exactly what it ever could with era-appropriate software, so for example, I can still design, typeset and layout a magazine on my Classic II, model business finances on a DOS box, or perform stock and inventory control and management on a PDQ. What's often really great about these systems is actually that they can't do the internet and thus distract from their core uses.
Also, that thanks to places like the garden, almost all the software that used to cost a fortune is now available just to download, so most of us have far greater breadth of uses we could put an old system to now than we could have realistically afforded then.
A G3 iMac is a capable and quite powerful system. It can be competently used for editing home movies with great production values, sophisticated photo/image editing, layout and pre-press work, is an excellent platform for even professional level writing, can be used for quite a few games even.... not to mention serious business use.
How much to spend on it depends on what you want. If just a shelf queen to admire, then you don't need to spend anything, otherwise it really isn't all that expensive to upgrade RAM and switch to a solid state hard drive, both of which will also help improve performance.
One other potential upgrade would be to install a small fan inside the iMac case purely to facilitate movement of air. These units use passive convection to dissipate heat. Considering their age, this could be a nice upgrade to help move/circulate heat and keep componentry cooler. Here's a thread talking about this over on Tinker Different.
You'd be adding another $10-20 to your restoration but would be a nice touch. This also illustrates the rabbit hole that is maintaining and upgrading retro computers lol. You really can go as deep and spend as much as you want. You can also see how having a kit of spare era-correct parts on hand helps to mitigate mounting costs.
Best of luck to you.
You'd be adding another $10-20 to your restoration but would be a nice touch. This also illustrates the rabbit hole that is maintaining and upgrading retro computers lol. You really can go as deep and spend as much as you want. You can also see how having a kit of spare era-correct parts on hand helps to mitigate mounting costs.
Best of luck to you.
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Hmm, iirc the flyback is on the PAV board, so you might consider looking into a replacement PAV board on eBay or elsewhere. If you are handy with a soldering iron, the flyback often suffered from circuit board creep which led to loose solder joints & intermittent failure. Being very careful to not electrocute yourself (100% serious here - improper/unfollowed safety steps can lead to a heart stopping, you die, shock x_x ) you can remove the PAV board and inspect for cold/loose solder joints and repair/reflow them. Here is a link to your DV's service manual.
If this is outside of your wheelhouse, finding someone who can safely do the repair is advisable. It is not easy to find a iMac g3 DV PAV board, so to repair you might be looking at buying a 2nd functional machine and use yours for parts for that machine. If you don't have the wheelhouse to repair, you're looking at repair labor costs as well, so you can see how money spent can balloon quickly beyond market value flip flopping the money math. Yes, subjective upgrades can all be used in other computers so are not necessarily a loss, but with these deeper repair costs like a PAV board for example can change the money math making any investment in maintenance unadvisable. Which path you take only you know and is dependent on your skillset and ability to source and repair yourself (or not) so very important to consider this before proceeding. The best path forward available to you may be to simply use the machine as is and invest nothing until the flyback bites the dust & then recycle it or pass it on.
Best of luck to you.
If this is outside of your wheelhouse, finding someone who can safely do the repair is advisable. It is not easy to find a iMac g3 DV PAV board, so to repair you might be looking at buying a 2nd functional machine and use yours for parts for that machine. If you don't have the wheelhouse to repair, you're looking at repair labor costs as well, so you can see how money spent can balloon quickly beyond market value flip flopping the money math. Yes, subjective upgrades can all be used in other computers so are not necessarily a loss, but with these deeper repair costs like a PAV board for example can change the money math making any investment in maintenance unadvisable. Which path you take only you know and is dependent on your skillset and ability to source and repair yourself (or not) so very important to consider this before proceeding. The best path forward available to you may be to simply use the machine as is and invest nothing until the flyback bites the dust & then recycle it or pass it on.
Best of luck to you.
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here's my opinion....will it ever be an internet machine?.......no probably not but with linux and tenfourfox/interweb you can have a decent old computer that has some usefulness....you have 30 years worth of software on the mactinsoh garden....from Microsoft office all the way up to full blown photoshop.....it can run Mac OS 9 along with Mac OS X and it can even run some older versions of windows in a vm(slowly) I still use my powerbook g4 everyday and its running Mac OS and linux and Im able to watch YouTube and do normal day to day tasks. Is it worth it haveing a device that revolutionized and changed the industry...to some like myself that is for sure a yes. It all relative though
LOL. When the iMac was launched I was dealing with CDs and zip disks. I did have a Sanyo stereo system that had a record player (bought 1985) but it was primarily used through AUX for the CD player or connected to the PC for sound.
Only thing I can't dispute is CRTs, although flat-screen CRTs were a thing around the early 2000s. Not much to say. Turn it on (or wake computer from sleep), hear the noise of it coming on and then the screen snaps on. Go. My parents did have an older TV from 1982 that we ended up with and it took a moment to warm up (not long). They all made the same noise when power was applied though. It's the noise your iMac makes when you turn it on.
CRT’s scare me quite a bit, the fact that my 20 inch sears one creates static electricity upon shut down and start up, is quite unnerving… Or the fact that i can’t open up my broken 1991 macintosh classic because the CRT has enough voltage to kill me very quickly, I have zero experience working with CRTs and nobody is willing to open it, so it’s a plant stand.
My father was an electrical engineer in the aerospace industry. Promised me to fix a switch on my Commodore monitor when I was 18 or so (1988 I think). Of course, he didn't and made the excuse of 'CRT, static electricity, blah, blah, blah'.
I took that seriously though, but considering he was an ELECTRICAL ENGINEER, I thought he might know what to do. Nah. So, I packed the monitor off to a computer store (lots of those in the 80s/90s) and they dropped in a switch for me. That's all it needed. Big ugly red switch on the side but it did the job.
I believe there is a way to discharge it, but I'd have to look that up. I know that I had the same hesitancy with PSUs. I opened up the PSU on my Quicksilver at one point to replace the fan. But the trick with that is that the computer was unplugged and I discharged the CPU by pressing and holding the power button while it was unplugged.
You can open CRT cases, even if the things are plugged in and working. What you DON'T want to do is touch the parts, especially those around the back. Aside from that, CRTs are safe. I'd use Google to find out how to discharge. I'd think it'd be fairly easy.
If you are interested about learning how to work on old CRTs, AIO pcs etc. I recommend researching about local retro computer clubs in your area. There is one in my area and it is full of old stinky geeks (older than me and Im old and stinky myself) who grew up working on this tech and who would be more than happy to pass on what they had learned to a new generation like yourself. These sort of groups are so handy because it's not a theoretical conversation online, rather an in person, hands on, nuts n bolts, this is how you do it conversation. For a person like me who is very much a visual, hands-on learner, this was invaluable and I think it could be a great way for you to learn and build your wheelhouse so you can confidently & safely work on these machines as you find them.
(older than me and Im old and stinky myself) who grew up working on this tech and who would be more than happy to pass on what they had learned to a new generation like yourself. These sort of groups are so handy because it's not a theoretical conversation online, rather an in person, hands on, nuts n bolts, this is how you do it conversation. For a person like me who is very much a visual, hands-on learner, this was invaluable and I think it could be a great way for you to learn and build your wheelhouse so you can confidently & safely work on these machines as you find them.Thank you guys for all of your help, I will do my research, how long do you think I can go with the fly back in the g3 before it breaks something permanently?
I don't know about should, but given how big these were you should be able to fit a couple million in there. At least if you take out the CRT. But remember the case is translucent so it's not a good hiding place.