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How much of a premium are you willing to pay?
- Thread starter vniow
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Ill answer with a depends Premium is in the eye of the beholder. I already know that if I get a PowerBook it will most likely be a 17er. The problem is that after pricing it out it came out to be a tad over $4,000. (Admittedly this is with a spare battery, additional AC adapter, .Mac, and 1GB RAM.) As Ive stated before I have no problems paying a premium but $4,000? I put less of a down payment on my new car! At prices like that I get VERY squeamish. I can drop the price down to $3,873 if I get rid of the extras but still. Where Apple really has you by the nads is with their AppleCare. Its practically extortion at $350. Dell, Toshiba, Gateway, et al throw in a 3-year warrantee to begin with. You do have the OPTION of upgrading that to priority service but by default the 3-year warrantee is good enough. Sorry folks but in this regard Apple is screwing its customers over big time.
In addition to that only the 17 and 15 PowerBooks come close to the performance of the Pentium M. http://www.barefeats.com/al15b.html As I have said before I can deal paying a premium price as long as I know Im getting a premium product. Unfortunately the PowerBook line isnt premium, and isnt on par with its PC counterparts. In fact beyond specs I question the quality of current Apple laptops. The release of the new 15 PowerBook was a mess. I cant count the number of complaints I read. In addition to that one of the two friends that I know who have iBooks had their hard drive fail on them. Now understandably things like this happen but this is why many OEMs have hard drive burn in standards. And last week my other friend had something happen where his iBook went to sleep and never came back. Two people I know and two bad systems one which was less then 4 months old. (The failed HD one.) Thats NOT a good track record. People speak of Apple quality. I want to know where it is? Was that a feature sported only on 2002 and older PowerBooks?!! Im somewhat scared that Im playing Russian roulette when it comes to a PowerBook. This REALLY should not be the case.
Finally you have the software. Since Ive never used OS X for any great length of time I cant say much on the topic. I do believe that the massive advantage OS X had 4 years ago over anything Windows has decreased dramatically. While finding your way around Windows XP can be clumsy at times (My Network Places is a freaking mess of options thrown together. Or how about the properties page of my computer. IMHO its in a counterintuitive location.) its still useable once you get use to HOW the collective mind of Microsoft works when it comes to their interface. At this point I can navigate, tweak, and make Windows my ***** with the best of them. Stability is almost a nonissue. My home XP box has been up for 3 months. Crash free and stable as a rock. (Admittedly I have about 8 critical updates to apply but I really dont want to reboot for that.) So the reason for paying a premium for an Apple product from the OS standpoint is somewhat depreciated because of what Microsoft has done. Note I said depreciated. IMHO it still has major advantages over Windows. Then you come to the other half of the software equation. The iLife package. I dont really know what to think about iLife. I havent used these applications other then iTunes for Windows. As much as I like iTunes Im a feature person. I like my options. iTunes seems to be somewhat limited in the various options it has. One example. MusicMatch. It has built in alarms that allow you to set Music Match to go off at X time and play music. It has the ability to download cover art on any CD you pop into the drive. It has something called super tagging that reads the filename of the WMA or MP3 and fills in the black for the files metadata. The list goes on. What iTunes does it does well but I just wish the apps were a bit fuller. Obviously since I have little to no experience with OS X I do not know if this extends to the other iLife apps but again I like features and options. Does this make these apps bad? Nope. But for me they might fall by the wayside for other application which makes paying the afore mentioned premium less worthwhile.
OK Ive been babbling for a page and a half. What does it all boil down to? It comes down to this. I think Apple products are overpriced when its comes to hardware and software but not by as much as some PC users Ive talked to make it out to be. Maybe 10%-25% over a typical PC desktop/laptop which IMHO isnt bad. What makes it bad is that what you get for that premium is inconsistent from product branch to product branch. No one would deny that the G5 PowerMac is on par with its PC counterpart right? But can the same really be said of the eMac, iMac, and iBook?
OK so after that little minirant you would think Ive written off the Mac as an option right? Wrong. I believe that once Apple gets a G5 in the PowerBook it will do for the PowerBook what the G5 did for the PowerMac line. Bring it up to par with the rest of the computing world and once that happens I have NO problems paying that premium. In fact Ive been saving for it. So far $1,700 (Would have had more but had to repair the car.
) Im hoping to have at minimum 3 grand when the G5 is announced but I may wait an additional month to see what bugs fall out of it. Again Im not a big fan of playing Russian roulette with my purchases. Also Ive wanted to start working with *nix systems. Linux is still a mess GUI wise. Id rather get a feel on a system such as Mac OS X. The reason is simple. I truly beleve in the long run Linux is going to kick Windows *** in the corp environment. Since Im a network admin / helpdesk pro I need to know this stuff. Hence the reason Mac OS. That and Im getting the distinct impression OS X is a tweakers\tinkerers\customizers dream OS.
OK thats long enough.
In addition to that only the 17 and 15 PowerBooks come close to the performance of the Pentium M. http://www.barefeats.com/al15b.html As I have said before I can deal paying a premium price as long as I know Im getting a premium product. Unfortunately the PowerBook line isnt premium, and isnt on par with its PC counterparts. In fact beyond specs I question the quality of current Apple laptops. The release of the new 15 PowerBook was a mess. I cant count the number of complaints I read. In addition to that one of the two friends that I know who have iBooks had their hard drive fail on them. Now understandably things like this happen but this is why many OEMs have hard drive burn in standards. And last week my other friend had something happen where his iBook went to sleep and never came back. Two people I know and two bad systems one which was less then 4 months old. (The failed HD one.) Thats NOT a good track record. People speak of Apple quality. I want to know where it is? Was that a feature sported only on 2002 and older PowerBooks?!! Im somewhat scared that Im playing Russian roulette when it comes to a PowerBook. This REALLY should not be the case.
Finally you have the software. Since Ive never used OS X for any great length of time I cant say much on the topic. I do believe that the massive advantage OS X had 4 years ago over anything Windows has decreased dramatically. While finding your way around Windows XP can be clumsy at times (My Network Places is a freaking mess of options thrown together. Or how about the properties page of my computer. IMHO its in a counterintuitive location.) its still useable once you get use to HOW the collective mind of Microsoft works when it comes to their interface. At this point I can navigate, tweak, and make Windows my ***** with the best of them. Stability is almost a nonissue. My home XP box has been up for 3 months. Crash free and stable as a rock. (Admittedly I have about 8 critical updates to apply but I really dont want to reboot for that.) So the reason for paying a premium for an Apple product from the OS standpoint is somewhat depreciated because of what Microsoft has done. Note I said depreciated. IMHO it still has major advantages over Windows. Then you come to the other half of the software equation. The iLife package. I dont really know what to think about iLife. I havent used these applications other then iTunes for Windows. As much as I like iTunes Im a feature person. I like my options. iTunes seems to be somewhat limited in the various options it has. One example. MusicMatch. It has built in alarms that allow you to set Music Match to go off at X time and play music. It has the ability to download cover art on any CD you pop into the drive. It has something called super tagging that reads the filename of the WMA or MP3 and fills in the black for the files metadata. The list goes on. What iTunes does it does well but I just wish the apps were a bit fuller. Obviously since I have little to no experience with OS X I do not know if this extends to the other iLife apps but again I like features and options. Does this make these apps bad? Nope. But for me they might fall by the wayside for other application which makes paying the afore mentioned premium less worthwhile.
OK Ive been babbling for a page and a half. What does it all boil down to? It comes down to this. I think Apple products are overpriced when its comes to hardware and software but not by as much as some PC users Ive talked to make it out to be. Maybe 10%-25% over a typical PC desktop/laptop which IMHO isnt bad. What makes it bad is that what you get for that premium is inconsistent from product branch to product branch. No one would deny that the G5 PowerMac is on par with its PC counterpart right? But can the same really be said of the eMac, iMac, and iBook?
OK so after that little minirant you would think Ive written off the Mac as an option right? Wrong. I believe that once Apple gets a G5 in the PowerBook it will do for the PowerBook what the G5 did for the PowerMac line. Bring it up to par with the rest of the computing world and once that happens I have NO problems paying that premium. In fact Ive been saving for it. So far $1,700 (Would have had more but had to repair the car.
) Im hoping to have at minimum 3 grand when the G5 is announced but I may wait an additional month to see what bugs fall out of it. Again Im not a big fan of playing Russian roulette with my purchases. Also Ive wanted to start working with *nix systems. Linux is still a mess GUI wise. Id rather get a feel on a system such as Mac OS X. The reason is simple. I truly beleve in the long run Linux is going to kick Windows *** in the corp environment. Since Im a network admin / helpdesk pro I need to know this stuff. Hence the reason Mac OS. That and Im getting the distinct impression OS X is a tweakers\tinkerers\customizers dream OS.OK thats long enough.
Since when is the iPod mini a fiasco? You can't know how well it will sell. Compare it to similar non-Apple mp3 players and you'll see that it's not more expensive.
You CAN'T compare it to a unit using a 1.8" HD (the iPod) like you CAN't compare an iPod to a unit which uses a 2.5" HD (like the Nomad Zen).
Smal = Expensive. You'll have to realize that before making such insane comments!
You'll probably buy a mini within the year yourself
You CAN'T compare it to a unit using a 1.8" HD (the iPod) like you CAN't compare an iPod to a unit which uses a 2.5" HD (like the Nomad Zen).
Smal = Expensive. You'll have to realize that before making such insane comments!
You'll probably buy a mini within the year yourself
Originally posted by sparks9
You'll probably buy a mini within the year yourself
Not if I can still get one which holds all 13GB of my music for $50 more...
Or even cheaper if I (probably) decide to go used/refurb...
Since you don't care about size and the Apple brand, you should just get a 60 gb nomad3 for 50 dollars more than the mini.
AAC capability, the iPods interface and its design are worth its price.
If there were another player like that out there with a good interface and AAC capability for a good price I wouldn't hesitate to look at it.
Until then, mini's out. Too much for too little.
The size is nice, the colours are cute but in the end I can't justify not spending a bit more to something which would suit my needs 11 times better. Or better yet find a used one which comes with a dock and whatever....
If there were another player like that out there with a good interface and AAC capability for a good price I wouldn't hesitate to look at it.
Until then, mini's out. Too much for too little.
The size is nice, the colours are cute but in the end I can't justify not spending a bit more to something which would suit my needs 11 times better. Or better yet find a used one which comes with a dock and whatever....
Re: How much of a premium are you willing to pay?
Come back to the iPod Mini in 6 months and then call it a fiasco. Right now its too soon to tell if the average consumer will or will not bite on it. As Yoda once said "Size matters not" The iPod and iPod mini are close enough in size that, IMHO, I think there will be a fair amount of people focusing on not the size of the device but the capacity and price. But again, lets wait 6 months before calling the mini a disaster.
Come back to the iPod Mini in 6 months and then call it a fiasco. Right now its too soon to tell if the average consumer will or will not bite on it. As Yoda once said "Size matters not" The iPod and iPod mini are close enough in size that, IMHO, I think there will be a fair amount of people focusing on not the size of the device but the capacity and price. But again, lets wait 6 months before calling the mini a disaster.
what premium?
I was surprised when I learned more about Macs that they are frequently no more expensive than PCs are. You can find cheap commodity PC hardware for less, of course, but Apple's stuff in many cases doesn't cost any more than similar quality name-brand PCs. Compare the 12" PowerBook to anything on Dell's Web site and see what I mean.
In those cases where Apple stuff costs more, usually it offers advantages. The iPod is smaller than the slightly-cheaper units that are competing with it now, and certainly better-looking. And of course, Apple's excellent software is worth something.
With regard to the iPod Mini, I personally would rather spend the $50 to get the 15GB iPod, but some people will be enchanted by the Mini's small size and good looks, and who am I to criticize their tech-infatuation just because my own priorities differ? My guess is they will sell enough Minis to make it a successful product.
Cheers!
I was surprised when I learned more about Macs that they are frequently no more expensive than PCs are. You can find cheap commodity PC hardware for less, of course, but Apple's stuff in many cases doesn't cost any more than similar quality name-brand PCs. Compare the 12" PowerBook to anything on Dell's Web site and see what I mean.
In those cases where Apple stuff costs more, usually it offers advantages. The iPod is smaller than the slightly-cheaper units that are competing with it now, and certainly better-looking. And of course, Apple's excellent software is worth something.
With regard to the iPod Mini, I personally would rather spend the $50 to get the 15GB iPod, but some people will be enchanted by the Mini's small size and good looks, and who am I to criticize their tech-infatuation just because my own priorities differ? My guess is they will sell enough Minis to make it a successful product.
Cheers!
I think this is one of the keys. You get used to something, there are some things you like, you try to do the same things on another OS and it doesn't quite work the same. It is very hard to objectively compare 2 things unless you are very familiar with both. As you mentioned, you haven't used OSX very much. As a result, you really can't appreciate the value of iLife apps to determine value. Here is an example of how the 2 OSes are different. I bought a digital camera. I didn't want to mess with the included software. So I plugged the camera into my Mac. It found the camera and realized it was a camera and asked me if I wanted to install the software or simply use iPhoto. I clicked use iPhoto. From there I was able to hit import and it brought my pics over where I could fine tune them, put them in an album, order prints from Kodak, print them...very easy, very smooth. Even a beginner could have used ths. I then plugged the camera into my Windows machine. It found a USB storage device. That was it. Since I know Windows very well, I was able to go into Windows Explorer (not IE) and find my USB drive. I clicked on it and there were my pics. I double clicked one of them and it took me into Window picture viewer. There was not much editing I could do. I could print. That is about it. A beginner would have been lost. That is an example of added value that you can't appreciate unless you have used both platform regularly. For someone that has never used a computer, it would certainly be worth the extra money to use Apple as they could sit down and be working on their computer in no time.
So, yes, there is more value in the higher price, thus worth a premium.
As long it's Apple I'm willing to pay extra for it. I will however not pay extra for some run of the mill Windows machine.
But since I have both gov. and edu. discounts I rarely pay full price anyways.
Though I did recently pay full price for iPod AppleCare on a spur of moment.
I'll probably be buying the 3Ghz G5 PM when it comes out this summer, iPod mini, iSight, new Apple LCD, and a new G5 PB if it comes out.
Probably get AppleCare to cover it all and probably the next OS upgrade if it comes out this yr.
But since I have both gov. and edu. discounts I rarely pay full price anyways.
Though I did recently pay full price for iPod AppleCare on a spur of moment.
I'll probably be buying the 3Ghz G5 PM when it comes out this summer, iPod mini, iSight, new Apple LCD, and a new G5 PB if it comes out.
Probably get AppleCare to cover it all and probably the next OS upgrade if it comes out this yr.
I would pay a small premium for it, but I dont think the general public would and thus Apple dont charge a brand premium as such. However they supply a premium product in my view, ie one that is superior to "comparable" computers and thus people will think the prices are higher.
And as we've been seeing the iPod minis competition is at least as expensive as the iPod mini
And as we've been seeing the iPod minis competition is at least as expensive as the iPod mini