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Could someone here give me a bit of advice? I have to decide between a rMBP with 8 GB or 16 GB of RAM. I currently have an iMac Mid 2011 with 8 GB of RAM. I do some photo editing, coding and the usual web-surfing-stuff. I do not use VMs because I have bootcamp. On my iMac I just opened some apps (Aperture, Pixelmator, Xcode, ...) and the activity monitor shows a green memory-pressure-bar but the amount of used memory is around 7,5 - 7,99 GB. Does this mean that I should go for a 16 GB configuration? I would like to keep my rMBP for at least 4 years.

Here are all the numbers from the activity monitor:
column on the left of the memory-pressure-graph:
physical memory: 8 GB
used memory: 7,98 GB
virtual memory: 9 GB
swap: 0 Byte

on the right:
App-memory: 5,26 GB
File-cache: 1,37 GB
reserved memory: 1,33 GB
compressed: ~500 MB

Your MBP will last 4 years. With OS updates not becoming more and more taxing, you will be fine. The data you posted shows that there is still a good 1GB of file cache that could be cleared, and your total amount of RAM used was 9GB (no swap, so that extra 1GB was compressed). 8GB of RAM can be compressed to 15.5GB before performance drops and all the way to 18.5GB before heavy Swap. So that means you still have a good 7.5GB free before even slight drop in performance. You can consider 16GB, but if this data was taken when you were using everything you normally run 8GB will defiantly last you 4 years.

Easy way to look at it from the data I have researched, look at the virtual memory and if you have 8GB of RAM you have up to 15.5GB before even a noticeable drop in performance then 18.5GB is maxing out the RAM.
 
Could someone here give me a bit of advice? I have to decide between a rMBP with 8 GB or 16 GB of RAM. I currently have an iMac Mid 2011 with 8 GB of RAM. I do some photo editing, coding and the usual web-surfing-stuff. I do not use VMs because I have bootcamp. On my iMac I just opened some apps (Aperture, Pixelmator, Xcode, ...) and the activity monitor shows a green memory-pressure-bar but the amount of used memory is around 7,5 - 7,99 GB. Does this mean that I should go for a 16 GB configuration? I would like to keep my rMBP for at least 4 years.
The jump from 8gb to 16gb is a larger, more expensive one, than 4 to 8.
I dont see many scenarios where 16gb make sense on a laptop, because requiring more than 16gb will also eat your battery and therefore portability away.
If your current usage does not change 8gb should be plenty.
 
I appreciate the concept of the "guide", and I'm not saying it isn't a useful reference to check if you have no better info available to you, but the major issue I have with it is that it's WAY to easy to end up with a 4GB machine.

I wouldn't advise anyone to purchase a new Mac with only 4GB, especially one that can't be upgraded, unless they're usage is super basic AND they literally can not afford more (or they plan to sell it in a couple of years anyway).

Just an anecdote - I purchased a mid-2009 MBP w/ 2GB RAM right after it came out. I believe it shipped with Snow Leopard. At that time, 2GB was the "base" like 4GB is now. It was for a family member who did super basic typical stuff (internet, email, iTunes, iPhoto, etc.). By Lion, things were noticeably slower. By Mountain Lion, it was constantly facing memory pressure.

And it's not just OS X - all the other software demands more and more. And users needs change as well. Maybe they don't think they'll ever use iMovie when they buy it, but then they get an iPhone, and now they want to edit vacation videos.

RAM requirements change. The recent trend in conventional wisdom is that hardware requirements have plateaued - the average user doesn't need faster CPUs or more RAM. They're wrong like they've been wrong every time throughout computer history.

I dont see many scenarios where 16gb make sense on a laptop, because requiring more than 16gb will also eat your battery and therefore portability away.
Theoretically, yes, but practically speaking, this is not something a normal user should consider in determining what to get. (I'd certainly be interested to see an authoritative source that indicates otherwise, if you have one.)

And if you actually have a need for 16GB, then you should absolute get 16GB - you'll actually save battery life if data can be stored in RAM rather than being paged out to an SSD/HDD.
 
Just an anecdote - I purchased a mid-2009 MBP w/ 2GB RAM right after it came out. I believe it shipped with Snow Leopard. At that time, 2GB was the "base" like 4GB is now. It was for a family member who did super basic typical stuff (internet, email, iTunes, iPhoto, etc.). By Lion, things were noticeably slower. By Mountain Lion, it was constantly facing memory pressure.
Have you installed Mavericks? Would you mind posting a screenshot of your memory pressure? (under mavericks)

And it's not just OS X - all the other software demands more and more. And users needs change as well. Maybe they don't think they'll ever use iMovie when they buy it, but then they get an iPhone, and now they want to edit vacation videos.
Software has demanded more and more because developers programmed it that way.
Why else would a trivial app like MS Office have such high requirements?
It has barely changed over the last 15 years.
:apple: is so successfull because they focus on software. Thats where progress and development should and will happen.


RAM requirements change. The recent trend in conventional wisdom is that hardware requirements have plateaued - the average user doesn't need faster CPUs or more RAM. They're wrong like they've been wrong every time throughout computer history.
all system requirements change. By the time ram requirements have changed cpu, gpu, storage, wifi,... requirements will have changed as well. What makes ram so special?

A lot of what people do today is web based. My, and everybody elses bottleneck today is internet speed.
The other bottleneck is ssd speed. The pcies in macbooks are replaceable and pcie is capable of way faster speeds than the measly 1gb per sec even the fastest ssds in macbooks get as of today.

Theoretically, yes, but practically speaking, this is not something a normal user should consider in determining what to get. (I'd certainly be interested to see an authoritative source that indicates otherwise, if you have one.)
why would this not be something a normal user should consider? macbooks are all about battery life, since portability is the whole purpose of a laptop. Battery life is why :apple: restricted flash and usb support on their iOS devices. This might also be why they keep the ram in these devices low. In the beginning they were heavily criticized for this, as you might remember. Now we know: they are right!
if a app runs in the background then it likely uses power. People tend to forget to close these apps unless they are reminded/forced by their systems slowing down. This takes away some of your freedom as a user but it will eventually let you appreciate your macbook more. The battery life is one of the big charms of :apple: devices.

And if you actually have a need for 16GB, then you should absolute get 16GB - you'll actually save battery life if data can be stored in RAM rather than being paged out to an SSD/HDD.
that is correct. If you really need whatever ram you need, get it!
Noone suggesting otherwise.
 
First, let me say that while you obviously have a bias towards less RAM, it's is kind of refreshing in an age where in many threads, people suggest throwing 32GB, 64GB, even 128GB of RAM at everything... so moderation is a nice perspective. But like I said, I think you're pushing it way too far.
Have you installed Mavericks? Would you mind posting a screenshot of your memory pressure? (under mavericks)
He no longer has it (got a new MBA before Mavericks came out). But even Mavericks will suffer slowdowns with 2GB in typical usage. You're implication that Mavericks would have fixed it is wishful thinking. Just because Mavericks lists the system requirements as 2GB doesn't mean it will operate efficiently with that little RAM.

Software has demanded more and more because developers programmed it that way...

all system requirements change. By the time ram requirements have changed cpu, gpu, storage, wifi,... requirements will have changed as well. What makes ram so special?
So your solution is to get less RAM on principle to force software developers to be more efficient with their programming? That doest seem very practical.

This is a RAM discussion, so that's what I was addressing, but I would address other components like CPU in a similar manner. However, RAM is different. With a CPU, everything gradually gets a little slower year by year, or the user has new software needs, and the computer is slower to perform compared to a faster one. However, once you hit the RAM bottleneck, you're left looking at colorful spinning beach balls. Those get really annoying really fast.

why would this not be something a normal user should consider?
Sorry, I thought it was implied in my answer, but I can see now that I was vague... having more RAM does not appreciably affect battery life.

BTW, memory compression isn't "free" either - the CPU ramps up to perform the compression, which uses more battery. While that is better than being forced to use swap, simply having more RAM is the most efficient.

if a app runs in the background then it likely uses power. People tend to forget to close these apps unless they are reminded/forced by their systems slowing down. This takes away some of your freedom as a user but it will eventually let you appreciate your macbook more. The battery life is one of the big charms of :apple: devices.
If you're offering tips to save battery life, that might be good advice depending on the situation. Simply having more RAM is really the best approach. Apps idling in the background generally don't usually have much of an energy impact, but that's where Mavericks new "Energy" tab (in Activity Monitor) is useful.

You seem to have an unusual approach to this that it's somehow "good for you" to do with less RAM.

No offense, but the "This takes away some of your freedom as a user but it will eventually let you appreciate your macbook more" line should be in the annals of the Apple Fanboy Hall of Fame. ;)

Anyway, you're entitled to your take on the RAM, but in other threads you've been encouraging users to come visit this thread for RAM advice, and I wanted to suggest to your readers that your guide is biased to a certain viewpoint.

My viewpoint is that RAM generally comes down to budget, and most users who skimp on RAM will regret it down the road. 4GB is too little for a new computer that most users expect will last them at least several years.

Cheers!
 
He no longer has it (got a new MBA before Mavericks came out). But even Mavericks will suffer slowdowns with 2GB in typical usage. You're implication that Mavericks would have fixed it is wishful thinking. Just because Mavericks lists the system requirements as 2GB doesn't mean it will operate efficiently with that little RAM.

No offense, but the "This takes away some of your freedom as a user but it will eventually let you appreciate your macbook more" line should be in the annals of the Apple Fanboy Hall of Fame. ;)

Anyway, you're entitled to your take on the RAM, but in other threads you've been encouraging users to come visit this thread for RAM advice, and I wanted to suggest to your readers that your guide is biased to a certain viewpoint.

My viewpoint is that RAM generally comes down to budget, and most users who skimp on RAM will regret it down the road. 4GB is too little for a new computer that most users expect will last them at least several years.

Cheers!
The MBA with ssds and 2g ram still run fine, there is no beachballing or stuttering. That's not the real life user experience you are trying to imply.

My statement was :apple: fan boyish :D but it's true.

There is no foreseeable change that would make 4gb machines useless in the next years.
:apple: would severely disgruntled their user base, selling machines that don't perform in a few years. They are selling 4gb as standard config now and they are not that stupid to destroy their own business.

This is not "my thread". It's a wiki thread editable by most users. The questionnaire is by Martin:apple:guy and the rest is from me and others.
 
In a nutshell, if u intend to use the Mac for at least 5 yrs or more , 8gb of ram is advised (future-proof) . Otherwise , 4 gb is suffice if u foresee that u will replace the machine after 3 yrs
 
I added an activity monitor example by Rodrigo Yoshida. Thanks to him. :)
 
So I came in at a number of 14, but here's my issue.

I do a lot of reasearch stuff for school.

I work Safari pretty hard with many tabs.
Having Mail, Safari, Word, and maybe Xcode open can blow through my RAM pretty quickly. I tend to keep it to a dull roar by usually only having Safari, maybe Mail and Word open gathering data for the various papers I write.

Having only those three open routinely runs me out of RAM and sends me to swap. Like I said, I have 8GB. Does anyone here think I should be using 16GB? I haven't even gotten around to virtual machines this semester or anything which is lucky.

I have a late 2011 macbook pro, so 16GB wouldn't be a problem. I just don't know if I really need it or not.
 
So I came in at a number of 14, but here's my issue.

I do a lot of reasearch stuff for school.

I work Safari pretty hard with many tabs.
Having Mail, Safari, Word, and maybe Xcode open can blow through my RAM pretty quickly. I tend to keep it to a dull roar by usually only having Safari, maybe Mail and Word open gathering data for the various papers I write.

Having only those three open routinely runs me out of RAM and sends me to swap. Like I said, I have 8GB. Does anyone here think I should be using 16GB? I haven't even gotten around to virtual machines this semester or anything which is lucky.

I have a late 2011 macbook pro, so 16GB wouldn't be a problem. I just don't know if I really need it or not.
Don't look at the swap number.
Check the memory pressure. Is it green? Do you have an ssd?
 
Yes, I have a samsung 830 ssd.The pressure does seem to be in the yellow sometimes, not all the time. When I start getting beach balls, its usually when the pressure is in the yellow/red is why I asked.
 
Yes, I have a samsung 830 ssd.The pressure does seem to be in the yellow sometimes, not all the time. When I start getting beach balls, its usually when the pressure is in the yellow/red is why I asked.
I am surprised with your usage, but if your the pressure goes into the yellow and even red I would definitly upgrade to 16gb.
 
I am surprised with your usage, but if your the pressure goes into the yellow and even red I would definitly upgrade to 16gb.

Yeah, I think it's borderline for me. If I wanted to spend on 16GB it wouldn't be a waste, but also these RAM issues are really only going on in a acute parts of the semester where I just have so much going on and haven't pulled it all together yet.

Thanks for the help in my understanding of what I'm looking at!
 
Well, I guess I didn't need to upgrade my Mini from 4Gb to 8Gb RAM. I was hoping it would help because since I upgraded from Mavericks to Yosemite my Mini started to run like crap. All I really do is browse the web using safari (which also got worse under Yosemite)
Upgrading to 8Gb RAM did nothing to help the issue. The latest update helped somewhat but Safari still hangs and the system is slower than before.
 
Well, I guess I didn't need to upgrade my Mini from 4Gb to 8Gb RAM. I was hoping it would help because since I upgraded from Mavericks to Yosemite my Mini started to run like crap. All I really do is browse the web using safari (which also got worse under Yosemite)
Upgrading to 8Gb RAM did nothing to help the issue. The latest update helped somewhat but Safari still hangs and the system is slower than before.
Thank you for posting this!
It informs people of a common misconception.

When your system runs slower the main culprit is usually the software.
Downgrading to an earlier OS might help. The one your Mac was shipped with is usually best.

The next factor is the hdd. Swap it for an ssd and your machine will be like new.

If those two things didn't help you should start monitoring and examining your system to find the causes.
 
Thank you for posting this!
It informs people of a common misconception.

When your system runs slower the main culprit is usually the software.
Downgrading to an earlier OS might help. The one your Mac was shipped with is usually best.

The next factor is the hdd. Swap it for an ssd and your machine will be like new.

If those two things didn't help you should start monitoring and examining your system to find the causes.

I am going to stay with Yosemite because I prefer keeping current, especially for security reasons. This latest update did help somewhat so I'm hoping another update will help even more.
I will definitely get a SSD for my next Mini but I don't want to put any more money into this machine. I'll wait until the next Mini upgrade (hopefully better than the last one) and give this machine to my mother.
 
I am going to stay with Yosemite because I prefer keeping current, especially for security reasons. This latest update did help somewhat so I'm hoping another update will help even more.
I will definitely get a SSD for my next Mini but I don't want to put any more money into this machine. I'll wait until the next Mini upgrade (hopefully better than the last one) and give this machine to my mother.
If you are talking about a 2012 or 2011 mini, then I'd stick in an ssd and you are good to go for another few years!

Buying RAM because your system is slow, was not smart.
Ram = speed is a myth for the majority of users, but noone wants to hear that for some reason.
 
If you are talking about a 2012 or 2011 mini, then I'd stick in an ssd and you are good to go for another few years!

Buying RAM because your system is slow, was not smart.
Ram = speed is a myth for the majority of users, but noone wants to hear that for some reason.

Yeah, buying more RAM was not the way to go. I didn't research the memory pressure and thought when the bar went up high it was under pressure, instead of looking for it to turn red. The one time I didn't go to a forum to ask a question!
This is a mid 2012 Mini with the AMD Radeon graphics but it's never worked quite right software wise. From the beginning every time I opened safari I got a spinning beach ball.
I think update wise it may be better to go with the integrated graphics because those with a separate graphics card like mine seem to be complaining more about update issues.
 
Have 4GB in my 2012 MBP, looking to upgrade.

While it seems 8GB if enough for my applications, the price differential between 8 and 16GB isn't huge. Going to end up putting 16GB in the machine to be proactive.
 
Have 4GB in my 2012 MBP, looking to upgrade.

While it seems 8GB if enough for my applications, the price differential between 8 and 16GB isn't huge. Going to end up putting 16GB in the machine to be proactive.
This indeed a factor to consider.
Another option is, to buy one 8gb stick and upgrade to 10gb for now.
 
This is a very helpful wiki. I'll elaborate later on a cMBP (2011) that I'll donate to my parents in the future where I haven't decided yet if it needs an upgrade to 8gb.
 
I added some new usefull infos, including a screenshot and allegory by snaky69 and sam11b.
 
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I'm not sure if there's anyway to easily simulate this without physically inserting and removing ram in turn- but it might be interesting to see the results of Activity Monitor using the same mix of programs, under 4GB, 8GB, 16 GB..

While the macBook shows 383.7 meg being devoted to kernel task, and 48.1 meg being devoted to window server, and so on, I get this sort of thing.
Screen Shot 2015-07-09 at 1.54.39 PM.png


Now, it might fairly be said that most of my memory will remain unused. But clearly, some processes have been allowed to get greedy.
 
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