code-m
macrumors 601
Many NAS devices you have. I used to have a 5-Bay that served me well for many years. By AIO router had other functions but over the years my network needs have evolved and to some point reduced.
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How Old Is Your Main Router?
- Thread starter drrich2
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eyoungren
macrumors Nehalem
Only two NAS devices in there. The other two are (silver, on bottom right) a RAID enclosure and a USB enclosure (sitting on top of the RAID enclosure). There is however, a third NAS (with one connected USB enclosure) that's in the same room but not located where everything else is.
I have a lot of computers (mostly Macs). But the NAS boxes have eliminated a PowerMac G3 and a PowerMac G4 as servers.
Marty80
macrumors 6502a
I just updated my netgear nighthawk AC router the one with six antennas like marvin the martians command centre to the newer nighthawk wifi 7 router.
For me routers are something you rarely change as most of my apple gadgets are still using wifi 6.
Only my iphone 17 pro max has wifi 7, so no need to worry about 8.
For me routers are something you rarely change as most of my apple gadgets are still using wifi 6.
Only my iphone 17 pro max has wifi 7, so no need to worry about 8.
Which options did you want that were missing? The info. might help somebody router shopping.
I wasn't familiar with the pfSense brand and thought it might be a router brand I hadn't heard of. Nope. From the Wikipedia Page on it:
"pfSense is a firewall/router computer software distribution based on FreeBSD. The open source pfSense Community Edition (CE) and pfSense Plus is installed on a physical computer or a virtual machine to make a dedicated firewall/router for a network. It can be configured and upgraded through a web-based interface, and requires no knowledge of the underlying FreeBSD system to manage."
And the Netgate SG 5100 is a 'firewall and network appliance' (I hadn't heard of such a term; sounds kinda like a router?). From STH (Serve The Home): Netgate SG-5100 Firewall and Network Appliance Review
For my benefit, and that of others who may be curious about this, please help me understand where this type of setup falls into this hierarchy:
1.) Regular consumer routers with manufacturer firmware (e.g.: the typical TP-Link, Netgear, ASUS, etc.).
2.) Regular consumer routers with 3rd party firmware (e.g.: open source projects - OpenWRT, DD-WRT and FreshTomato).
3.) People who customize their personal computer to have router functionality (I don't know much at all about that; a little searching suggests DD-WRT and pfSense can be used for the software).
What I'm curious about is your Netgate SG 5100 (which apparently went end-of-life Dec. 2023?). It sounds like it's somewhere in-between a router and a fully independent computer (which reminds me a bit of NAS (network attached storage) systems). Is that right? Does it have any utility other than as a component for a DIY router?
I'd just like to better understand this option, what it is, why someone might opt for this, how complicated it is for a novice to set up and is it cost effective?
racerhomie
macrumors 6502a
No, the express. The $99 one with AirPlay support
Being on sale doesn't mean it is still supported. Bought Asus router May 2024, installed June, last update December 2024, Asus says end of life then, but still for sale on Amazon. Not happy, 6 months of updates. Going down the WRT route (suitable router being delivered today).
IMHO, the downside of DD-WRT and OpenWrt are they seem to always be in perpetual beta. They both are good for what they do, keeping otherwise unsupported consumer routers out of landfills.
OPNsense or pfSense will run on almost any x86_64 hardware. Intel NIC have better support. Although not recommended, you can run it virtualized.
OPNsense or pfSense will run on almost any x86_64 hardware. Intel NIC have better support. Although not recommended, you can run it virtualized.
throAU
macrumors G4
It is still on sale from the manufacturer and still supported.
Appliances
Compare the wide range of appliances by Netgate. From desktop to rack there are products that meet all different cost, performance, and specification needs
www.netgate.com
Its a proper firewall/router, not some consumer/isp provided POS.
ASUS are the worst for customer support on network devices.
VictorKurgan
macrumors newbie
stiligFox
macrumors 68000
I only just upgraded my AirPort Express 2nd gen to a more modern router, but my AirPort Express is still serving daily use for other members of the household and as an AirPlay device. Been working hard every day since it was brand new in 2015!
rctneil
macrumors regular
Running a Ubiquiti UCG-Max with a U7 Pro Access Point, after a friend of mine absolutely pestered me to consider them when I needed a new router. I had a Nighthawk R7000 but it was starting to have a few issues.
I'll be honest, he was absolutely right, this Unifi setup is leaps and bounds better!
I'll be honest, he was absolutely right, this Unifi setup is leaps and bounds better!
Fishrrman
macrumors Nehalem
When I changed from cable (comcast) to fiber (frontier) 2 1/2 years ago, they were offering a free eero to serve as the primary router "just beyond" the optical network terminal.
BUT... I couldn't use the eero. It's control app requires either a smartphone or tablet, and I don't have either that was capable of running the app (I do have an old Android tablet, but the version of Android on it is no longer upgradeable and won't run the eero app). So... there was no way to "manage" the eero once installed.
HOWEVER... the fiber installer guy still carried the previous router they had been using (Arris NVG468MQ), which could be administrated using a standard browser-based interface.
So I took the Arris router and it's been fine. It provides ethernet at about 940+/-, same as the comcast residential gateway I used before. I believe it has only wifi 5, but I get 450-480 from it using my 2021 MacBook Pro downstairs, and that's really all I need.
So no point in spending $$$ to replace it right now, there would be no benefit to me.
Regarding security/firmware updates, I can't find any user-installable firmware upgrades for it. I'm going to take a GUESS that whatever updates may exist are "pushed through" from the ISP end. Just a guess...
BUT... I couldn't use the eero. It's control app requires either a smartphone or tablet, and I don't have either that was capable of running the app (I do have an old Android tablet, but the version of Android on it is no longer upgradeable and won't run the eero app). So... there was no way to "manage" the eero once installed.
HOWEVER... the fiber installer guy still carried the previous router they had been using (Arris NVG468MQ), which could be administrated using a standard browser-based interface.
So I took the Arris router and it's been fine. It provides ethernet at about 940+/-, same as the comcast residential gateway I used before. I believe it has only wifi 5, but I get 450-480 from it using my 2021 MacBook Pro downstairs, and that's really all I need.
So no point in spending $$$ to replace it right now, there would be no benefit to me.
Regarding security/firmware updates, I can't find any user-installable firmware upgrades for it. I'm going to take a GUESS that whatever updates may exist are "pushed through" from the ISP end. Just a guess...
josehill
macrumors regular
There's less difference than you might think between these options. In the old days, routers were just computers (often, but not always, running a Unix operating system) that ran a software program that could "route" network information between two networks. They also often included some sort of firewall software. Aside from the software, there was nothing really special about the computers, except that they generally had two independent network ports to allow connecting to more than one network at the same time.
That is basically what you see with today's consumer routers. They're just simple, low-end computers with two or more network ports: one port for connecting to a wide-area network (WAN), e.g., the Internet, and one or more ports for connecting to the local-area network (LAN), e.g., your home network. Most of them are running some type of Linux, but most of the general purpose Linux functions are turned off or locked down, and an administrative interface is exposed to the end-user to allow limited customization, usually via a web page or a mobile app. Generally, consumers are able to access only the functions presented through the official administrative interface, though sometimes it is possible to get access to the underlying operating system.
Regular consumer routers with 3rd party firmware operate on the same principles. The main difference is that the firmware is a different version of Linux (or BSD) that is supported by the community, so it often is maintained significantly longer than the router manufacturer's original firmware. It also tends to get security updates more frequently. Another important difference is that the underlying operating system usually is accessible to the end-user. This allows a lot of flexibility, but it comes at the potential of greater complexity. Much of this added flexibility will be available via a web-based administrative page, but you can also access the underlying operating system via the command-line and customize it much more extensively.
For example, software like OpenWRT will have most services turned off or locked down by default, but you can login to the system and add just about any standard Linux software to the router, assuming that the router has enough RAM or disk space to run it. A common example of this is someone who has a consumer router with a USB port, and they'd like to use the port with a USB drive to support Time Machine backups that are compatible with the upcoming macOS 27 release. Make a few configuration changes, and you are in business. Another common option is to enable USB printer sharing.
The final option you suggest really is no different from running a consumer router with third party firmware, except that you have the option of even greater customization, especially at the hardware level. For example, if you have your own small business, you might try installing several network cards in a PC and using the PC to route traffic between three or more networks, including wireless networks. You might add more RAM or storage to be able to support more devices or users. In many ways, this is the most traditional approach to setting up a router.
Each of these approaches has their own limitations.
Regular consumer routers with manufacturer firmware are very easy to use, but they at the mercy of the manufacturer in terms of security updates and features. They generally receive fewer security updates than other types of routers, and manufacturers often will stop supporting them for business reasons, rather than for technical reasons.
Regular consumer routers with 3rd party firmware can be great, but the assumption is that the end-user has more technical skills than most consumers. Installing third party firmware is not very hard, but it is more demanding than simply updating the manufacturer's original software. Also, once installed, there usually are a few configuration steps that are required. Again, not terribly difficult, but if the end-user knows little or nothing about networking, it may be a bit beyond reach. Similarly, if an end-user wants to customize the installation much beyond the defaults, they can find themselves in a place where it is easier for a novice to reinstall everything from scratch than to try to figure out what went wrong. If you are comfortable with Linux or BSD and have an understanding of networking concepts, it's a great solution. If you are a hobbyist looking to learn a bit more, it can be an excellent fit. If you're a regular consumer, make sure to read the installation instructions to make sure you are comfortable with them, or maybe find a friend who is a bit more technically inclined who can help you. As you might imagine, the same guidelines apply to trying to use a regular computer as a router.
I don't want to scare anyone away from trying to install 3rd party firmware on a consumer router or to use something like pfSense on a PC. It can be challenging for novices, but if you're careful and follow the installation and configuration instructions closely, it can be a very rewarding process. That said, most consumers probably are better off simply buying a currently supported router from a respected manufacturer.
headlessmike
macrumors 68000
I moved recently and had to get a new network setup. Not wanting to invest too much while figuring out how I want things I picked up a used pair of Asus XT8 AX6600 units that are set up as access points with a wireless backhaul mesh network. They work great for my needs and provide good coverage even in my shed where I do virtual cycling.
The routing is handled by my ISP’s fiber converter which works well but doesn’t give much control over things unfortunately. It was at least replaced with a brand new model when I moved in last fall.
The routing is handled by my ISP’s fiber converter which works well but doesn’t give much control over things unfortunately. It was at least replaced with a brand new model when I moved in last fall.
Range and wifi speed sufficient? It's limited in both compared to the Exteme. But great that it's still working well for you.
Subarctic5216
macrumors member
3 years now with Firewalla's Gold Plus 2.5g router and 1+ year with 2 AP7s.
>Netgear Nighthawk CM2050V cable modem.
Rock solid and totally happy with Firewalla
>Netgear Nighthawk CM2050V cable modem.
Rock solid and totally happy with Firewalla
IvyKing
macrumors 6502a
Well said.
Most consumers don't understand how Internet Protocol works and thus would be in the dark when it comes to making use of the features of pfSense or WRT. I would go so far as to say most consumers would not have much of a clue how to fully use the options of an appliance router.
IvyKing
macrumors 6502a
I've been mulling over getting either Firewalla or Netgate to replace the Asus router/wireless access point. The Asus has been working fairly well, but the DNS response time seems to get slower with increasing time between restarts. My preference with with a router/firewall is that its only purpose is to act as a router/firewall and not have extra functions such as managing wireless access. The extra configurability of pfSense and Firewalla is also appealing, specifically being able to dedicate an Ethernet port for the guest/IoT network.
Having a web or ssh interface is a big plus, and prefer not to need to use an app on a phone to set up the router.
On a somewhat related topic, I'd like to know if any of the UPS manufacturers have a UPS designed to keep a router and modem/GPON running for a few hours? This would be helpful in keeping internet access up during a power outage.
