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I think a bigger issue is them alerting people on public transport along with you. Worse, a subset of those people are going to be either confused or deliberately annoying and are going to disable your tracker.
Yeah that's a point of mentioned before. There must be a buffer time of a few hours before this alert goes off.
Imagine everyone taking a 2 hour train ride together, then everyone gets to disable each others trackers? Just seems stupid... So one would assume there's a 12hour + hopefully a days worth of buffer time before the alerts go off.

The other question i have is what about your partners AirTags? I don't want to see alerts that i'm being tracked when it's simply my Wife's house keys?

One would think there would be a whitelist section that you can mark friends and families airtags as safe?
 
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“the built-in Find My app will notify you if an unknown AirTag is seen moving with you over time by displaying an "AirTag Found Moving With You" message on the screen”​

What’s “over time”? By the time they know where you live, where you work or where you go to school? Only after a few days you’ll get a notification to disable the tag….
It seems like it's on the order of hours, rather than days. One footnote in the article says that to "wait to see if another alert appears as you move from location to location during the day."

It's probably based mostly on the AirTag being detected with you as you travel to different locations, and I'd imagine it comes up pretty quickly if you're actually moving around, since it's your iPhone alerting you that it's seeing the same unknown tag as you go different places, and it wouldn't be an especially useful feature otherwise.

Someone can as easily disable the tag on a stolen backpack as someone actually being followed… seems rather useless 😕
Someone can also simply remove the tag, take the battery out, or smash it with a big hammer. I doubt any thief would go through the steps of disabling the tag, and I suspect the only reason Apple offers that feature is so that somebody who is being stalked can hang onto the tag and turn it over to law enforcement.

The bigger risk is that a hidden AirTag risks alerting the thief to its presence, but at that point they're still likely to deal with it in a far more direct manner 😏
 
Yeah that's a point of mentioned before. There must be a buffer time of a few hours before this alert goes off.
Imagine everyone taking a 2 hour train ride together, then everyone gets to disable each others trackers? Just seems stupid... So one would assume there's a 12hour + hopefully a days worth of buffer time before the alerts go off.
No buffer time needed. The alerts only go off if the tag isn't with the owner (e.g. it's away from its paired iPhone). From Apple's AirTag page:

Of course, if you happen to be with a friend who has an AirTag, or on a train with a whole bunch of people with AirTag, don’t worry. These alerts are triggered only when an AirTag is separated from its owner.

Likewise, I don't imagine you can disable an AirTag if its owner's iPhone is still nearby.

The other question i have is what about your partners AirTags? I don't want to see alerts that i'm being tracked when it's simply my Wife's house keys?

One would think there would be a whitelist section that you can mark friends and families airtags as safe?
Essentially, yes. Apple notes in a support article that you can mute the alerts from any AirTag for one day. If the AirTag belongs to someone in your Family Sharing group, you'll have the option to mute it indefinitely.

While this doesn't necessarily help for all of your friends, as noted above it's not going to be an issue when you're simply travelling with others, only if you happen to be carrying one of their AirTags when they're not with you, like on a borrowed item, in which case the one-day mute is probably sufficient.
 
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It seems like it's on the order of hours, rather than days. One footnote in the article says that to "wait to see if another alert appears as you move from location to location during the day."

It's probably based mostly on the AirTag being detected with you as you travel to different locations, and I'd imagine it comes up pretty quickly if you're actually moving around, since it's your iPhone alerting you that it's seeing the same unknown tag as you go different places, and it wouldn't be an especially useful feature otherwise.


Someone can also simply remove the tag, take the battery out, or smash it with a big hammer. I doubt any thief would go through the steps of disabling the tag, and I suspect the only reason Apple offers that feature is so that somebody who is being stalked can hang onto the tag and turn it over to law enforcement.

The bigger risk is that a hidden AirTag risks alerting the thief to its presence, but at that point they're still likely to deal with it in a far more direct manner 😏
I see your point, if a thief gets indeed notified and can disable your tracker without a hassle it kind of beats a big purpose of the tracker.
I assume most trackers Apple will sell, would be used to tag their own belongings, not waste a 29$ tag to follow someone. 😅

I'm actually curious how other tag manufactures handle this area.
 
I see your point, if a thief gets indeed notified and can disable your tracker without a hassle it kind of beats a big purpose of the tracker.
I assume most trackers Apple will sell, would be used to tag their own belongings, not waste a 29$ tag to follow someone. 😅

I'm actually curious how other tag manufactures handle this area.
At no point, as far as I am aware, has Apple suggested that the purpose of airbags is to avoid theft. Everything is about finding lost items, not stolen.

On the other hand, they have made statements about privacy and it is specifically noted on their website.

Given any conflict between privacy and theft I expect them to err towards the privacy issues. That's one of the many reasons why I expect the time before notification to be fairly short.
 
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I find this feature still dubious and prone to exploitation.

Putting myself in attacker's shoes --
1. Disable audio on the device. That's potentially pretty easy. I'd like to see how audio on AirTags is implemented, but I'd bet it's easy to break.
2. Plant AirPod on someone.

So if the device is traveling with a non-owner, that non-owner will get an alert, assuming they have an iDevice. But everyone else - the "one billion other devices" - will simply see a nearby device and might track it on behalf of the attacker.

So you have to watch your phone for the alert, because even ignoring it and letting the default non-opt-in tracking will result in tracking from everyone else, and a stalker to follow you without restriction.

Very suspect. And the lack of data on this feature makes this worse.

If you want to track your kids, it sounds it requires the phones around the children to report the location, which effectively is worse. You're assuming that nearby iphones are opted in, which doesn't necessarily report THEIR location (I have faith in that part), but the problem is that there's no great way to allow your children in this context to detect and nullify a tag on their person. But since they may or may not have phones, this is where the problem is. Do you want strangers placing THEIR tags on your kids? They don't have to be following, they just have to be near.

Understand that in the above context, it's "worse" insofar as the devices aren't alerted to the airtags nearby, they're simply blindly reporting their location. Yes, it's anonymized, I'm not assuming any security breaches here, but let me put it in another way...

A girl goes to a date with a guy. Guy plants a sound-suppressed airtag in her coat (just assume this is possible for sake of argument). She leaves and goes home alone. Guy stalks girl. Girl sees "Device following you" alert. Does it fully disable the airtag, permanently? Did the alert come the moment she started walking away? How long did it take? All the way home? If the process fully disabled the airtag, is it just from the girl's phone? What about the girl's roommate? Since the device didn't "travel with" the roommate, is that person's iphone now transmitting the stalker's airtag? What if she never checked her phone or the sound was off?

I'm not trying to be paranoid here, I just want to fully understand the boundaries of the process. At the same time, if I'm traveling in an airplane, can another person who happens to be closer to my luggage stowed under the plane disable my airtags? They'd be "Travelling with" ...

I don't believe any iDevice should report ANY separated-from-owner location at all, for this reason, opt-in or not. It's the apple network, why not make it only allow a call/text instead of location to "phone home" to owner? The devices shouldn't do this automatically. A human must provide the location manually.

This is getting into The Dark Knight levels of using everyone's phone as tracking mechanisms... it almost feels the very essence of monopoly power since this would occur via iDevices.

I'm sure there have been extensive security reviews by Apple but this is a little suspect. The protections, really, are stalwart observance of your phone, which you must have to protect yourself otherwise a 3rd party will reveal you anyway, or be able to hear the beeps.
 
I find this feature still dubious and prone to exploitation.
In all fairness, Apple does only say that "AirTag is designed to discourage unwanted tracking." (emphasis mine)

Putting myself in attacker's shoes --
1. Disable audio on the device. That's potentially pretty easy. I'd like to see how audio on AirTags is implemented, but I'd bet it's easy to break.
2. Plant AirPod on someone.
The fact that it takes three days for the audio alert to sound already makes that something of a problem anyway.

Plus, if you're stalking somebody like a co-worker, you might see them often enough that the alert would never go off.

So if the device is traveling with a non-owner, that non-owner will get an alert, assuming they have an iDevice. But everyone else - the "one billion other devices" - will simply see a nearby device and might track it on behalf of the attacker.
Might is the key word. Since these are designed primarily to locate lost items rather than stolen ones, I suspect that there's a minimum time that an AirTag has to be nearby before an iPhone or other Apple device reports it, so it may not work if somebody is driving around without an iPhone on their person.

Also, remember that it's the location of the iPhone or other Apple device that's reported, not the location of the AirTag itself. If somebody who doesn't have an iPhone is carrying an AirTag and it's picked up by a nearby iPhone, you're going to get a fix on that location, which could be a neighbouring house or apartment. That's more than enough to help you legitimately find a lost item, since once you're in range you can zero in on it more directly, but it's less precise if you're trying to get a fix on somebody's home address or exactly which car they're driving in.

Most importantly, however, I'm fairly confident that Apple can identify the owner of any found AirTag if it's turned over to law enforcement. This is implied in its support document, and of course Apple would be insane not to allow for this. That's a huge risk for a potential stalker to take, since they're basically planting a device on their intended victim that can be easily traced back to them.

If you want to track your kids, it sounds it requires the phones around the children to report the location, which effectively is worse. You're assuming that nearby iphones are opted in, which doesn't necessarily report THEIR location (I have faith in that part), but the problem is that there's no great way to allow your children in this context to detect and nullify a tag on their person. But since they may or may not have phones, this is where the problem is. Do you want strangers placing THEIR tags on your kids? They don't have to be following, they just have to be near.
I think this reveals the problem of people using these for purposes not intended by Apple. These are item tracking tags, not kid tracking tags. They're designed to help you find your lost keys or luggage, not to know where your kids are.

If somebody plants a tag on your kid, however, you'll likely find out about it pretty quickly when you pick them up and bring them home. I can guarantee you that if I found an unknown AirTag on my daughter, I'd be calling the police in a heartbeat, and they'd very quickly figure out exactly who that AirTag belongs to. Cops take child stalking/abduction cases very seriously.

A girl goes to a date with a guy. Guy plants a sound-suppressed airtag in her coat (just assume this is possible for sake of argument). She leaves and goes home alone. Guy stalks girl. Girl sees "Device following you" alert. Does it fully disable the airtag, permanently? Did the alert come the moment she started walking away? How long did it take? All the way home? If the process fully disabled the airtag, is it just from the girl's phone? What about the girl's roommate? Since the device didn't "travel with" the roommate, is that person's iphone now transmitting the stalker's airtag? What if she never checked her phone or the sound was off?
Apple's support document clearly says "Disable AirTag." If an AirTag has been found in that context, I'm confident that Apple will err on the side of caution and just let the finder render it completely inert. This is in the exact same paragraph that advises people to contact law enforcement if they feel that their safety is at risk.

How long the notification takes to appear is an good question, of course — we don't know that yet — but it sounds like it's based on distance travelled, so I imagine it would come up somewhere along the way.

I'm not trying to be paranoid here, I just want to fully understand the boundaries of the process. At the same time, if I'm traveling in an airplane, can another person who happens to be closer to my luggage stowed under the plane disable my airtags? They'd be "Travelling with" ...
I don't imagine AirTags will the kind of range and power to punch through from an aircraft luggage compartment, but admittedly it's a good question and a possible edge case. Perhaps not in an airplane, but possibly on other forms of transportation. I used to regularly ride trains where all of the luggage was stowed at one end of the car, for example, so it's possible somebody sitting near that luggage area would likely get a notification, especially if I ended up sitting at the other end of the train car. Again, I suppose the depends on how far away I have to be from my AirTag before it considers itself to be on its own.

All good questions, though, and definitely points worth thinking about.
 
“5. To disable the AirTag and stop sharing your location, tap Instructions to Disable AirTag and follow the onscreen steps.”

This aims to protect the privacy of anyone who is being tracked illegally. Therefore, the meaning of this sentence is the disabling of the airtag using your location forever, i.e, instead of having 30m devices helping you find your item, you will only have 30m minus 1 (or any devices that has deactivated their location sharing with you).

It is not the same as having any strangers deactivating your airtag such that it is totally useless
 
No, but only because you misunderstood what they can do. They are not GPS trackers.
They are the wrong solution for this type of use.
You'd need a GPS tracker (which could be purpose built or just a cheap phone)

Theres so many posters in here that seem to think these are global always on tracking devices. They are not.
They are local to you, with some happenstance ability to be located should someone with a phone pass near them and want to get involved returning them.
Ok if that is the case, then they are good only for finding remotes and keys? If I need a $29 device just to find my remote, then I have a lot of other questions for myself.
 
oh god, didn't even think of this. what a s-t show this will be. i can already see family members in dispute disabling each other's tags...
if the tag is marked as lost it can't be disabled and they also can't be disabled until 24 hours after its left the Bluetooth range of your apple devices
 
That's if the tag is static for three days and then gets picked up by a non-owner. Completely separate feature to the anti-stalking measures.
It's clear that it won't emit a sound until it's actually moved, but I'm not so sure that the AirTag has to be static for three days before that happens. There's certainly no evidence of that on Apple's product page or in its support documents.

I also wouldn't say it's completely separate to the anti-stalking measures, since it's described right in the "Privacy" section of the AirTag product page:

AirTag is designed to discourage unwanted tracking. If someone else’s AirTag finds its way into your stuff, your iPhone will notice it’s traveling with you and send you an alert. After a while, if you still haven’t found it, the AirTag will start playing a sound to let you know it’s there.
That said, it is possible that there are two entirely different scenarios where an AirTag makes an audible sound on its own. However, since it's also possible for an iPhone user who receives an alert to make it emit a sound manually, it seems unlikely it would need to do so by itself in that case.
 
That's if the tag is static for three days and then gets picked up by a non-owner. Completely separate feature to the anti-stalking measures.
So if a dog has it on his collar and someone is dog sitting. It would make. Sound after thee days. After the person stops the sound can I not track anymore
 
“5. To disable the AirTag and stop sharing your location, tap Instructions to Disable AirTag and follow the onscreen steps.”

This aims to protect the privacy of anyone who is being tracked illegally. Therefore, the meaning of this sentence is the disabling of the airtag using your location forever, i.e, instead of having 30m devices helping you find your item, you will only have 30m minus 1 (or any devices that has deactivated their location sharing with you).

It is not the same as having any strangers deactivating your airtag such that it is totally useless
I don't think this reading is right, as it would mean that other devices near you would still be sending the AirTag's location to the person stalking you (in a stalking scenario).
 
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I don't think this reading is right, as it would mean that other devices near you would still be sending the AirTag's location to the person stalking you (in a stalking scenario).
Well, if you already know for sure someone is tracking you by dropping a tag into your bag, you could search for it and throw it away. Or head straight to the police station to report unauthorised tracking.

If not, the world will end up with a lot of disabled airtag.

While there is a need to ensure privacy is protected, there is also a need to balance it up. Fact is that each airtag is tagged to an appleid and only amateurs will use this to track people now that it is widely publicised. There are other options out there to track people without them knowing.
 
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