How to Make the iOS 18 Photos App Suck Less

[citysnaps]

Are you sure theyre not just mckinseys/MBA’s that attach pdf’s to emails all day

Nope. All degreed engineers with lots of experience as hardware designers. Speaking from experience having done both, sometimes simultaneously.

 

[GraXXoR]

Maybe one day soon these companies will go back to hiring based upon qualifications and not immutable characteristics.

Immutable characteristics, I'm not following...

 

[I7guy]

OK, let's go through this using mostly basic inductive logic:


Of course. That's human nature. And/but:

• Over thousands and thousands of decisions that a company makes, there will be situations where the majority of people — be it the general population or the company's own users — don't like some of those decisions.
• There will be others — and literally by definition, the minority — who do like those decisions.
• People have affinity for brands. Hundreds and hundreds of studies conducted over many decades have demonstrated this.
• Some of these people are diehard fans.
• Apple has a reputation for having a non-trivial and noteworthy number of them who have stronger than average brand affinity. Sources: studies of opinion, analysis of repeat buyers, analysis of network effects, people literally saying it themselves.
• Brand affinity guides purchasing decisions for many, even when every other attributes of the product really ought to point a person toward another product. This is why brands are often included in market research when doing conjoint analysis.

I'm not sure what your point is. Of course this is true. It's almost axiomatic, but it doesn't really have bearing on my point.

You previously used the word "objective" in the context of design choices. I pointed out that I didn't use that word. But I will say that if you read what the best people in Product (I'm using capital "P" to refer to the discipline) write, you'll find they overwhelmingly agree on principles of software design. It's execution where things get murky. Regardless, using those Product rules and heuristics, there are design choices that come about as close as can be to "objective" while still being an opinion on a technical level. If 0.01% of people like a design choice and 99.99% dislike it, I think we are well past the point of saying, "Well, I guess the 0.01% just have a different opinion."

I suppose you could try to argue otherwise, but to reuse another one of your earlier words, that is semantics. Or you might try to argue that the 99.99% example is a straw man argument. OK, but the fact that it's compelling means that there is some number at which the conclusion holds. But we don't need to even try to quantify what that threshold "should" be in what is a gray area. The fact that it exists is sufficient to support what I said.

And c'mon. Let's be reasonable. We've all seen bad interfaces.



See above. It isn't hyperbole at all when applied to what I was saying which is the general point — that there are decisions on which that situation happens. That they exist.

As for the numbers on any issue, well, this is purely tangential, but we/I/you DO have ways to quantify and substantiate them on any issue. In fact, they're actually pretty straightforward to get on just about anything as long as you're willing to pay for that information. Market research gets you to market sizing and a zillion other factual conclusions about public opinion. And while you might argue that the margin of error or design bias are at play for situations in the 50% range, once you get to 75% or above, I can't think of a way to torture survey design, instrumentation, and the data itself enough with a reasonable sample to possibly turn a sub-50% number to 75%.

So in light of the above, let's review what I actually said:

• Claim: Apple has a strong fanbase that often isn't critical and in fact is accepting of some decisions. (You conceded the first part for sure.)
• It's recognized by lots of people, including industry experts, financial analysts, and the media, as being noteworthy precisely because it's so strong. Many brands don't have that. You yourself said it's something brands strive for. I think you'd have a really hard time if you tried to prove that it doesn't exist.
• There are boneheaded decisions that exist. (You already conceded this too.)
• There will be people in that strong fanbase who are fine with and even enthusiastic about those boneheaded decisions when the majority (the population, Apple users, whatever) disapproves.
• My only real opinion that I expressed here: that we should collectively strive to call out what we see as boneheaded decisions and avoid the bias that brand affinity can create.

I'm really not sure why you're still trying to defend an indefensible position. It seems you latched onto a couple words but didn't actually read them in my context and instead assumed they or I meant something else — probably things you've read from others that do bother you. Maybe it's triggering to you. I don't know.

I think it's worth asking yourself why this happened. But that one truly is just my opinion.

Thank you for the word salad. I take french on mine.

Let's break this down using some common sense:

1. you've already conceded those who have a gripe are more likely to voice out online than those who are satisfied
2. Only those with skin in the game with regards to the photo app have a right to comment
3. The majority is some hyperbolic term that is not defensible. Yet here we have the above word salad and it goes off in a tangent not related to the article at hand.

My only point which is objective, is that some don't like the photos app, and some do. Trying to derive or extrapolate anything else, as you have tried to do, is not possible.

The remainder of your post is motherhood and apple pie stated as some epiphany, which is business as usual for Apple. It's clear on MR some don't like the photos app while others some do.

 

[SnowPenguin]

Changes like this turn me away from the stock apps in most operating systems.

 

[Newbie67]

Well, if you’re writing a thesis on it, maybe you’ll discover WHY there is this perceived “group think”. Maybe it’s not what you believe it to be, and maybe it’s just something simple like a decent app turning sour after a bad decision for an update. 😆

Proofs in the puddin!!🤪

 

[jeremz1ne]

i dunno for whatever reason the photo app has messed up all my dates / years i took the photos and now all my older photos from from when i had an iphone 4 till now are all over the place... wish there was a way to clean that up and organize it ... but the app is trash hopefully they can fix it in iSO19 maybe 20?

 

[john123]

Thank you for the word salad. I take french on mine.

Let's break this down using some common sense:

1. you've already conceded those who have a gripe are more likely to voice out online than those who are satisfied
2. Only those with skin in the game with regards to the photo app have a right to comment
3. The majority is some hyperbolic term that is not defensible. Yet here we have the above word salad and it goes off in a tangent not related to the article at hand.

My only point which is objective, is that some don't like the photos app, and some do. Trying to derive or extrapolate anything else, as you have tried to do, is not possible.

The remainder of your post is motherhood and apple pie stated as some epiphany, which is business as usual for Apple. It's clear on MR some don't like the photos app while others some do.

The "word salad" as you dismissively call it is what addresses the issue that I raised and to which you responded.

I rather painstakingly took the effort to write my salad. It's comprehensive and clear. What you wrote both earlier and here does not address what I wrote in any way, and you continue to make claims that both are factually untrue and mischaracterize what I said.

Perhaps you simply chose not to read it and process it. That's unfortunate, but it is of course your prerogative. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...

I do however want to thank you. Your responses have brilliantly demonstrated my point. Thank you.

 

[john123]

Product managers are generally very experienced engineers and designers. At least at the Silicon Valley companies I worked at. No doubt that's the same at Apple.

^ this. Or at least trained in the discipline and good at execution.

I had a PM who worked for me who knew the product management playbook inside out, but as a PM, he was terrible. He didn't have engineering or design background, but more important, he never really bothered to get up to speed enough on the topics to do the job well. And to complete the trifecta, he really didn't seem to understand the business and larger product strategy. Needless to say, the things that he worked on flopped.

I know some senior PMs at Google and Meta, and they're extremely talented people. I assume Apple hires people with equally high caliber, so this whole thing is a bit befuddling. There are foul balls, there are swings and misses, and then there are swings where you awkwardly fall down onto the dirt. Photos falls into that last category.

I sure would love to know how this happened. Flops are such good learning exercises.

 

[I7guy]

[…].

I sure would love to know how this happened.

How what happened?

Flops are such good learning exercises.

Flops are always necessary part of success. But you have yet to prove the photos app is a flop.

 

[switz]

Question

How do you know you got a bad dinner?

Because you have had good dinners and can tell the difference.

If one's experiences were good and then a new release comes out with many changes that re-arranged your data, you knew what it was and what it is now. That is an imperial fact. No way to argue around that point. There is a change.

The personal part is if one likes or dislikes the change and can the change be reversed. If the change can not be reversed, then one can be considered correct to be upset as extra effort to retrieve data is now required where it was not necessary before the change.

The company should consider their customers time to change their data base is also worthy of their consideration when making changes. If the cost is too high, the customer's only choice could be to go elsewhere. If elsewhere does not exist, then the customers are justified in being very angry and that is expressed in the forums.

 

[UnusedLoginID]

When viewing your photo, simply press the info button, then press Add a Location...

You did not understand my feature return request. I used to go to Places, it would show on a map of the world where my photos were taken, and I would zoom in to the one I wanted or the area I wanted to see

 

[macbookj0e]

I have to say it’s much improved since the ios18.2 release.

Initially on 18.0 I really wasn’t a fan but actually think it’s decent now!

 

[citysnaps]

I know some senior PMs at Google and Meta, and they're extremely talented people. I assume Apple hires people with equally high caliber, so this whole thing is a bit befuddling. There are foul balls, there are swings and misses, and then there are swings where you awkwardly fall down onto the dirt. Photos falls into that last category.

I disagree... Photos is an outstanding app. Yes, there may be a couple of bugs that snuck past testing, but overall, and speaking as a photographer, it's an excellent update.

 

[citysnaps]

You did not understand my feature return request. I used to go to Places, it would show on a map of the world where my photos were taken, and I would zoom in to the one I wanted or the area I wanted to see

Sounds like there's a software bug. Have you reported it to Apple?

 

[I7guy]

Question

How do you know you got a bad dinner?

Because you have had good dinners and can tell the difference.

If one's experiences were good and then a new release comes out with many changes that re-arranged your data, you knew what it was and what it is now. That is an imperial fact. No way to argue around that point. There is a change.

The personal part is if one likes or dislikes the change and can the change be reversed. If the change can not be reversed, then one can be considered correct to be upset as extra effort to retrieve data is now required where it was not necessary before the change.

The company should consider their customers time to change their data base is also worthy of their consideration when making changes. If the cost is too high, the customer's only choice could be to go elsewhere. If elsewhere does not exist, then the customers are justified in being very angry and that is expressed in the forums.

Which is better? Vanilla or chocolate? If people rail against vanilla does it mean it’s bad?

Just because some dislike the changes to the photos app doesn’t mean it’s inherently bad.

 

[john123]

I disagree... Photos is an outstanding app. Yes, there may be a couple of bugs that snuck past testing, but overall, and speaking as a photographer, it's an excellent update.

Out of curiosity, when you say “as a photographer,” what use cases are you thinking of that make you like it?

 

[Burger Thing]

You did not understand my feature return request. I used to go to Places, it would show on a map of the world where my photos were taken, and I would zoom in to the one I wanted or the area I wanted to see

I have this feature under Pinned Collections. There is a Map collection and I can see the pics taken at specific locations. Is that what you were looking for?

 

[john123]

Out of curiosity, when you say “as a photographer,” what use cases are you thinking of that make you like it?

Also, let me give you just one example of an unbelievably bad design decision.

Library scroll is at the top. It’s always there. That’s not customizable in the “Customize & Reorder” section.

In principle, those things that ARE in Customize and Reorder have use for some people at some times, right? Your photos are the “data” in them (quite literally via the metadata).

In this example, let’s say you scroll back 1000 photos to find an event/subject/whatever that you’re looking for. You find it.

You think a photo is a good candidate for possibly 3 albums, but you’d need to look at what else is in the albums to decide.

Your only way to do that is to hit the “X” at the bottom right to snap you all the way down to the bottom of the list (by default, your most recent photos) so that the Customize & Reorder shows up. And then you’d need to scroll all the way back up those 1000 photos to get to the one you were looking for. Possibly many times if you’re wanting to do a simple thing with many photos as you’re, say, a passenger in a car.

That’s bad design. I can think of at least 2 other approaches that are better and take into account variation in phone screen sizes.

So help me God if someone comes along here and says “you shouldn’t be organizing photos on your phone” or “you should be using tags instead of albums” or “that’s what Photos on your Mac is for” or any terrible “you’re using it wrong” excuses like that for the kind of operation that the UI ostensibly intends to do. If it didn’t, you wouldn’t have the option to assign a photo to an album in the first place.

 

[citysnaps]

Out of curiosity, when you say “as a photographer,” what use cases are you thinking of that make you like it?

Just off the top of my head...

The ability to search my iPhone photos library (around 28K photos) for specific content, such as, just a few examples: people, beaches, red cars, buildings, bridges, dogs, homes, cops, bicycles, firetrucks, helicopters, and on and on.

Processing in RAW, in which I always shoot since it was introduced on iPhone. Processing tools that work incredibly well. Even though I ultimately export photos I like and want to print and hang to Lightroom on my Mac for processing, I can get a really good idea what to expect using the Photos app.

Using the Select button at the top of the Library when I want to export multiple photos to Lightroom. Being able to sort photos by capture date or when added.

There's more, but I need to eat dinner.

 

[Burger Thing]

Just off the top of my head...

The ability to search my iPhone photos library (around 28K photos) for specific content, such as, just a few examples: people, beaches, red cars, buildings, bridges, dogs, homes, cops, bicycles, firetrucks, helicopters, and on and on.

Processing in RAW, in which I always shoot since it was introduced on iPhone. Processing tools that work incredibly well. Even thought I ultimately export photos I like and want to print and hang to Lightroom on my Mac for processing, I can get a really good idea what to expect using the photos app.

Using the Select button at the top of the Library when I want to export multiple photos to Lightroom. Being able to sort photos by capture date or when added.

There's more, but I need to eat dinner.

Those features you listed have absolutely nothing to do with the current design per se of the app, to be honest. And I think that the core of the discussion here. The features you mentioned could have easily been added to the previous version.

As a keen photographer myself, I rather hope that Aperture comes back in one form of another, but that is another topic altogether.

 

[citysnaps]

As a keen photographer myself, I rather hope that Aperture comes back in one form of another, but that is another topic altogether.

Aperture never had a chance. I started with Aperture when introduced in the mid 2000s. Processing photos non-destructively was a tedious chore; especially when compared to how Lightroom does it.

When Lightroom came out I jumped ship. That was the best decision I ever made, and now have a large library of photos. Apple never had a chance competing with Adobe, whose business centered around color science and image processing. It's best Apple stay out of that business.

 

[codyl1992]

Very frustrating. It's "new for the sake of new", but worse.

 

[Burger Thing]

Aperture never had a chance. I started with Aperture when introduced in the mid 2000s. Processing photos non-destructively was a tedious chore; especially when compared to how Lightroom does it.

When Lightroom came out I jumped ship. That was the best decision I ever made, and now have a large library of photos. Apple never had a chance competing with Adobe, whose business centered around color science and image processing. It's best Apple stay out of that business.

Lightroom Classic is terribly inefficiently coded and slow. Hence Adobe introduced a new Version. Now we have two versions and most photographers (probably like you and me) cling on to the classic version due to plugin support, etc. Adobe made a complete mess out of it, to be honest.

Aperture was fantastic in many ways, like organising photos, album and libraries. I hope Apple will go back in to the segment. After all, we have a strong video editing software, music software. Close the circle with a strong photographer centric app.

 

[john123]

Just off the top of my head...

The ability to search my iPhone photos library (around 28K photos) for specific content, such as, just a few examples: people, beaches, red cars, buildings, bridges, dogs, homes, cops, bicycles, firetrucks, helicopters, and on and on.

Processing in RAW, in which I always shoot since it was introduced on iPhone. Processing tools that work incredibly well. Even though I ultimately export photos I like and want to print and hang to Lightroom on my Mac for processing, I can get a really good idea what to expect using the Photos app.

Using the Select button at the top of the Library when I want to export multiple photos to Lightroom. Being able to sort photos by capture date or when added.

There's more, but I need to eat dinner.

Yup, I agree that all of that functionality works well, and while I'm not a photographer, I think I can reasonably infer the use cases for it. Thanks for sharing.

 

[citysnaps]

Lightroom Classic is terribly inefficiently coded and slow. Hence Adobe introduced a new Version. Now we have two versions and most photographers (probably like you and me) cling on to the classic version due to plugin support, etc. Adobe made a complete mess out of it, to be honest.

Aperture was fantastic in many ways, like organising photos, album and libraries. I hope Apple will go back in to the segment. After all, we have a strong video editing software, music software. Close the circle with a strong photographer centric app.

I've never noticed LR being slow or waiting for an operation/edit/etc to finish. It's all instantaneous to my eyes and reflexes, and always has been - whether using an old Intel Mac or the M2-based Mac Studio that I use now.

What I remember (going back almost 20 years) about Aperture's method of non-destructive editing were the huge tiffs off the imported RAW files it needed to create upon which edit instructions were applied.

I just don't see Apple competing with Adobe on color science and image processing.