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threesixty360

macrumors 6502a
May 2, 2007
705
1,381
It’s amazing how power corrupts absolutely.. I remember a time when chrome was saving us from the tyranny of internet explorer!! Now we all need saving from chrome. And the old king (MS) is now the new saviour with Edge… it all just goes round and round doesn’t it? :)
 
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MacProFCP

Contributor
Jun 14, 2007
1,223
2,960
Michigan
Think outside the box. How many ways can EVERYONE mine your data?

Credit card companies know everything you buy, and where you bought it from and when. Cell phone providers know every single DNS call your smartphone makes, where you made it from and when. Do you not think, JUST those two entities, sell your data to Google and anyone else wanting to pay for your data? How much does Google pay Apple to make Google the default search provider, across their products? What % of Apple device users bother to change the default?

Your choice of web browser, to thwart data collection, is like hoping a snow flake will shut down a volcano.

Credit card companies may not share data as there are federal laws against that. Cell phone companies are similarly prohibited from sharing location data. That’s why the police need a warrant for either.

People are free to do what they want. I prefer not to be commoditized. Call me old school but I don’t use social media outside of business needs. Meaning no posting of anything personal. I don’t share my name or any personal details. It’s not that I have something to hide, I don’t. It’s that I am very uncomfortable with the idea of psychological advertising. I buy what I need to buy because I want to; not because I was manipulated into buying it.
 
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zapmymac

macrumors 6502a
Aug 24, 2016
869
1,035
SoCal ☀️
The insane amount of menus and sub menus on Microsoft edge is absolutely ridiculous. It’s like its own operating system.

I swear it took me an hour to go through every option in Microsoft edge just to get it to be as good as Firefox —> right out of the box basically. This was in Win10 though…

Just use Firefox. It’s not the FF of the late ‘00’s
 

MacBH928

macrumors G3
May 17, 2008
8,359
3,739
Tin foil hat? Funnily enough, Microsoft actually has pretty tight privacy controls, and while brave is an interesting option but if you think it’s private, you need to think again.

Brave is supported by an advertising model which in theory, should be totally private being a supposed DAO, however it’s quite the opposite. While all the computation for ads are done on the client side, your targeting information has to go somewhere. That will lead to personal information being shared.

Additionally, the default privacy controls on Brave are poor. You need to set it up. Twitter and Facebook for example are allowed by default.

Moreover they cloned Jitsi and then renamed it for their rewards platform without providing any credit. That’s just really scummy on the part of the devs and sketchy. What else have they cloned and claimed as their own?

I don’t mind Brave that much, but it’s not a replacement for Edge and certainly isn’t more private.

Do your research.

Are you sure you made your research?

Recommended privacy browsers:-
Privacy Tools , PrivacyGuides ,

ToSDr: Microsoft Services - Grade E , worst grade possible

Wired:
"MICROSOFT EDGE RECEIVED the lowest privacy rating in a recently published study.... Brave, the upstart browser that makes privacy a priority, ranked the highest."

Trinity College Research Paper:
"For Brave with its default settings we did not find any use of identifiers allowing tracking of IP address over time, and no sharing of the details of web pages visited with backend servers."

"Edge also sends the hardware UUID of the device to Microsoft and Yandex similarly transmits a hashed hardware identifier to back end servers. As far as we can tell this behaviour cannot be disabled by users."


Proton:

"...Microsoft also makes money from targeted advertising and has a long record of violating its users’ privacy(new window). "

-----------

As for Jitsi, If its FOSS (Free and Open Source Software) whats the problem with taking their code? Thats the whole idea of FOSS software. Any one can take the code and change it to their liking and redistribute it.

GNU-Free Software:- :“Free software” means software that respects users' freedom and community. Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software"
 

krspkbl

macrumors 68020
Jul 20, 2012
2,156
5,230
You mean the same Firefox that has data collection turned on by default? At this point between all the adblockers that limit tracking, cookies, etc it's mostly about what browser you want to use. All of them collect data and if you don't think Google already "owns" the internet then you're sadly mistaken. Firefox will never overtake Chome/Edge or Safari and if it did Firefox would have a hard time resisting the money involved with being #1.

Additionally, doesn't matter what browser you use if you're logging on to social media sites and other web services by Microsoft, Google, Amazon, etc.
Yeah the Firefox that you only need to click a couple boxes and you can make Firefox a lot stronger than default settings. I know they're "all the same" but I'd rather trust Mozilla over Google. If you care about privacy then Firefox is the best option. I've seen Brave mentioned often but I don't like it. With some basic quick adjustments it's far better than Chrome in terms of privacy. If you are really into privacy you can harden the browser. If you're really really paranoid then you could use Waterfox or Tor (which is based on Firefox). Let's not pretend that Firefox is anywhere as bad as Chromium based browsers lol.

You can say Google already own the internet with how popular chrome/search is...that's obvious. What I meant, as I'm sure you knew, is that if Chromium becomes the only kind of web browser then Google will TRULY own the internet.

I never said Firefox would overtake Chrome/Edge or Safari. More people should use it though if they care about the future of the internet.

Tell me something I don't know :rolleyes:
 
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Bento.Box

macrumors regular
Sep 10, 2022
224
121
If you're really really paranoid then you could use Waterfox or Tor (which is based on Firefox). Let's not pretend that Firefox is anywhere as bad as Chromium based browsers lol.
I used to use Waterfox on Windows, because Mozilla didn’t provide any native builds. Only 32bit for legacy hardware.

Firefox is far inferior to Chrome-based browsers in terms of performance. Slow JS engine, lack of proper multithreading (and thereby also fault protection). And you need plugins for adblocking, which Brave has already built in.

For those concerned with privacy, it helps a lot using multiple browsers and keeping things separated. Also use VPN (or TOR) and spin up VMs for the shady stuff that you later revert back.
 

MacBH928

macrumors G3
May 17, 2008
8,359
3,739
I know everyone loves to **** on Chrome because it isn't made by Apple but for anyone curious, this change makes a HUGE difference! I can go back to having Chrome as my default browser instead of switching between this and Safari. Yay!

There are other browsers like Edge, Brave, Firefox...its not just Chrome and Safari.

I will try that out.

Brave so far blocks adds most effectively on my iPhone. I have an adblocker for Safari, but it’s notWipr. It does fail on YouTube regularly

Edit: I have AdBlock Plus installed for Safari at the moment. I see that Wipr is not free so I‘m not going to test it

I have good experience with 1blockr. Its not free, but you can turn 1 filter ON for free and that can be the ads filter.

i had several issues with brave on mac , such as broken pwa for example


Chrome, Brave, and Edge are all built upon and a customised version of Chromium. So they all should work more or less the same unless there is something I am missing. Some websites might not work correctly with Brave but that is only because it has an adblocker and sometimes sites with ads malfunctions because you blocked their ads.

Your profile picture says it all, someone who is biased therfore anyone who has a different opinion is either blatantly wrong or an investor of said company. Ironic you suggest and possibly use the only browser (Brave) that has a cypto wallet built-in which came under heat so much so that the CEO had to apologize.

Bang on. Don’t be a sheep.

I am not biased I speak facts. If you do not care about your privacy enjoy whatever you want. You judge Brave for 1 mistake that lasted few days or something like that but ignore a company that only source of income is user's data that sells it to advertiers. You ignore this long list of horror:-

-Google Agrees to $392 Million Privacy Settlement With 40 States
-8 ways Google constantly invades your privacy - Kim Komando
-Google faces $5 billion lawsuit in U.S. for tracking 'private' internet
-Why You Shouldn’t Use Google Chrome After New Privacy Disclosure - Forbes
-Google agrees to pay $13 million in Street View privacy case - CNN
-4 insane ways Google has been invading our privacy
-Google’s education tech has a privacy problem - Vox
-Google and YouTube Are Invading Children's Privacy - Fairplay
-Google and YouTube Will Pay Record $170 Million for Alleged ...
-Gmail’s privacy problem and why it matters | Proton

But I am sure Brave is the real devil here.

Also a crypto wallet does not invade your privacy, you do not have to use it, I never turned it. I do not know how crypto works. Brave is Free and Open Source Software , this means you can read every single letter of code in it to double check it yourself. Heck you can compile it yourself!
 
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LukeHarrison

macrumors 6502
May 11, 2007
277
111
Firefox uses their own engine called Gecko. Safari uses WebKit
I know it does on desktop, but thanks to Apple's increasingly draconian rule that all browsers on iOS must use Webkit, it doesn't on iOS. I literally only use it there for desktop sync. I know content blockers don't work as well, but Firefox's own built in tracking protection does help a little. Can't wait until the EU tells Apple to do one and and allow true third party browsers. Can't wait for an iOS Firefox that supports extensions.
 

AstonSmith

macrumors member
Nov 2, 2016
93
84
UK
Tab unloading as a strategy sucks. It works on the assumption that the web page you were using hasn't changed when it goes to load it again, which is increasingly rare these days.

Infinite scroll page? Back to the top with you. Partially-filled form? Kiss the data goodbye. Web forum index? All the topics are shuffled up due to new posts.

I might as well turn off tabs completely and use bookmarks.

I blame the increased RAM usage on (some) site admins. Pages have become stuffed with tracking and analytics, huge multi-megabyte JavaScript frameworks, and other gimmicky nonsense. All this junk needs to be put somewhere.
 
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Love-hate 🍏 relationship

macrumors 68040
Sep 19, 2021
3,012
3,183
There are other browsers like Edge, Brave, Firefox...its not just Chrome and Safari.



I have good experience with 1blockr. Its not free, but you can turn 1 filter ON for free and that can be the ads filter.




Chrome, Brave, and Edge are all built upon and a customised version of Chromium. So they all should work more or less the same unless there is something I am missing. Some websites might not work correctly with Brave but that is only because it has an adblocker and sometimes sites with ads malfunctions because you blocked their ads.





I am not biased I speak facts. If you do not care about your privacy enjoy whatever you want. You judge Brave for 1 mistake that lasted few days or something like that but ignore a company that only source of income is user's data that sells it to advertiers. You ignore this long list of horror:-

-Google Agrees to $392 Million Privacy Settlement With 40 States
-8 ways Google constantly invades your privacy - Kim Komando
-Google faces $5 billion lawsuit in U.S. for tracking 'private' internet
-Why You Shouldn’t Use Google Chrome After New Privacy Disclosure - Forbes
-Google agrees to pay $13 million in Street View privacy case - CNN
-4 insane ways Google has been invading our privacy
-Google’s education tech has a privacy problem - Vox
-Google and YouTube Are Invading Children's Privacy - Fairplay
-Google and YouTube Will Pay Record $170 Million for Alleged ...
-Gmail’s privacy problem and why it matters | Proton

But I am sure Brave is the real devil here.

Also a crypto wallet does not invade your privacy, you do not have to use it, I never turned it. I do not know how crypto works. Brave is Free and Open Source Software , this means you can read every single letter of code in it to double check it yourself. Heck you can compile it yourself!
They all use chromium but they implement features and things differently

I don't use their adblocker as I already have Adguard

Because it's based on chromium doesn't mean that it'll behave like chrome (not be as fast )
 

1885507

Cancelled
Apr 21, 2022
218
259
i feel everyboy hates it

Likely because Google has for years engendered this problem. What started as a "Ooh, look! A new browser that's not bloated" has turned into a very, very different beast altogether.

I like...
  • A competitive browser space, something Chrome initially brought to the table.
  • 's privacy stance and practices far more than Google's.
  • Opt-in far more than Opt-out when it comes to privacy-related functionality.
I tolerate...
  • Some web apps (esp. G-Apps) are tailored to Chrome while others may work fine in other Chromium browsers (e.g., Brave, Edge, etc.)
  • Chrome's ubiquity in the education sector.
I loathe...
  • Google's privacy practices, especially with regard to Chrome.
  • Chrome's ability to vacuum as many resources as possible.
  • Chromes opt-out philosophy toward privacy settings.
  • "Did you install Chrome?" --The default response of nearly every IT help desk when their own web portal fails to work.

Meanwhile, I continue to struggle to understand how anyone who values privacy both in principle and practice continues to use nay advocate for Google Chrome.
 

jntdroid

macrumors 6502a
Oct 12, 2011
937
1,286
Likely because Google has for years engendered this problem. What started as a "Ooh, look! A new browser that's not bloated" has turned into a very, very different beast altogether.

I like...
  • A competitive browser space, something Chrome initially brought to the table.
  • 's privacy stance and practices far more than Google's.
  • Opt-in far more than Opt-out when it comes to privacy-related functionality.
I tolerate...
  • Some web apps (esp. G-Apps) are tailored to Chrome while others may work fine in other Chromium browsers (e.g., Brave, Edge, etc.)
  • Chrome's ubiquity in the education sector.
I loathe...
  • Google's privacy practices, especially with regard to Chrome.
  • Chrome's ability to vacuum as many resources as possible.
  • Chromes opt-out philosophy toward privacy settings.
  • "Did you install Chrome?" --The default response of nearly every IT help desk when their own web portal fails to work.

Meanwhile, I continue to struggle to understand how anyone who values privacy both in principle and practice continues to use nay advocate for Google Chrome.

I actually agree with most of your points. However, I continue to use Chrome because it works best for my online life, and Google actually gives you very granular controls over what they're allowed to do and not do with your data. I've tried de-googling my life before, and honestly it made controlling my data more difficult overall.

And if you (not you who I'm responding to, but the general population "you") don't trust that they're doing what they say they're going to do when you turn some things off, then you really have no reason to trust a lot of things online.
 
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dysamoria

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2011
2,245
1,868
I don’t really understand the logic behind having 10 (or 100) browser tabs active in the background. Seems unnecessary and sloppy to me.
A few tabs, OK, but a dozen or more?
I agree, but I now have a lot of tabs open because they’re reminders of things to check on regularly, finish reading, etc. that I only want to see when using the web (so I’m not making lists). I try to close them regularly, to keep it sane, but I definitely have more than I used to.
 

MacBH928

macrumors G3
May 17, 2008
8,359
3,739
Tab unloading as a strategy sucks. It works on the assumption that the web page you were using hasn't changed when it goes to load it again, which is increasingly rare these days.

Infinite scroll page? Back to the top with you. Partially-filled form? Kiss the data goodbye. Web forum index? All the topics are shuffled up due to new posts.

I might as well turn off tabs completely and use bookmarks.

I blame the increased RAM usage on (some) site admins. Pages have become stuffed with tracking and analytics, huge multi-megabyte JavaScript frameworks, and other gimmicky nonsense. All this junk needs to be put somewhere.

Can they have save state , kind of like how ios apps do in the background?

I don't use their adblocker as I already have Adguard

I am not sure if you use the extension or the vpn blocker, or the DNS but the built in adblocker does things the other things do not do like blocking in video ads and aesthetic fixing (takes out white space left where ads were supposed to be) it does not hurt to run both in fact its encouraged.

adguard extension
  • "Did you install Chrome?" --The default response of nearly every IT help desk when their own web portal fails to work.

This should be illegal. Its IE all over again. I do not understand how they program a website to work with 1 browser specifically since HTML and the rest should be a standard.

That being said, from my experience FireFox usually the browser that gives me least headaches with websites 🤷‍♂️
 
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Love-hate 🍏 relationship

macrumors 68040
Sep 19, 2021
3,012
3,183
Can they have save state , kind of like how ios apps do in the background?



I am not sure if you use the extension or the vpn blocker, or the DNS but the built in adblocker does things the other things do not do like blocking in video ads and aesthetic fixing (takes out white space left where ads were supposed to be) it does not hurt to run both in fact its encouraged.

adguard extension


This should be illegal. Its IE all over again. I do not understand how they program a website to work with 1 browser specifically since HTML and the rest should be a standard.

That being said, from my experience FireFox usually the browser that gives me least headaches with websites 🤷‍♂️
Adguard already does Aesthetic filtering ! And it does block ads on videos as well i believe

Your pp is awesome btw !
 
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Bento.Box

macrumors regular
Sep 10, 2022
224
121
I'm now back on my Desktop with my usual work set (including multiple web apps, such as citrix light, teams, other messengers etc) split over three screens.

Brave (based on Chrome) uses around 2 GB of RAM out of 64GB that my 2015 machine (almost 8 year old!) has.
It's really a non-issue for most environments in my view.

Embedded and Mobile with some load might want to use another browser though.
 

meetajhu

macrumors member
Apr 13, 2014
50
95
I used to use Waterfox on Windows, because Mozilla didn’t provide any native builds. Only 32bit for legacy hardware.

Firefox is far inferior to Chrome-based browsers in terms of performance. Slow JS engine, lack of proper multithreading (and thereby also fault protection). And you need plugins for adblocking, which Brave has already built in.

For those concerned with privacy, it helps a lot using multiple browsers and keeping things separated. Also use VPN (or TOR) and spin up VMs for the shady stuff that you later revert back.
Every browser out there is inferior to Firefox in every way possible. The JS benchmark isn't accurate because Chrome has no CPU cap for JS engine. While Firefox CPU cap for a percentage amount * max cpu single core clock speed/core count of resources to be used by the JS engine/browser tabs this is one of the reason its very efficient. This is why Chrome is power hog(not to be confused with more memory bloating). Firefox on the other hand uses memory based on total system memory available say if you have 8gb it will use less if you compare, the more available system memory it uses, better the responsiveness. Any app that uses more memory and auto scales is automically superior which is exactly what Firefox does. Using Waterfox is obselete ever since Firefox started x64 build(multiprocess release?). I hate this concept of people using distro apps like Palemoon, Waterfox etc. This is the very reason Linux is garbage(except for CLI apps).

Firefox properly uses the GPU for HW decoding, 2d page drawing by using gpu window layers and 3d apps always runs monitor's framerate, properly uses system color profiles, best browser for OLED displays for viewing HDR content because of proper dynamic tone mapping api with host OS. The upcoming Asus 500hz monitor i'm sure Firefox will be the only browser that will scroll smoothly at 500fps.
 
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ackmondual

macrumors 68020
Dec 23, 2014
2,435
1,147
U.S.A., Earth
The fact that this statement exists is wild

“Google claims the new Memory Saver feature means Chrome uses up to 40% and 10GB less memory.”

My brother in Christ how do you consume up to 10GB of memory in the first place
I'm not surprised... I've had Firefox crash on me because its memory usage just kept going up and up. "Lessons learned" include closing out tabs as necessary, but also just closing it down every now and then.

Solution = MS Edge. It’s my main browser now, been using it for a year and a bit, very impressed.
One general tip is to use the browser that also matches the hardware.

Android and Chrombook... Chrome
Windows... Edge
iOS and MacOS... Safari

They're going to be optimized for the hardware they're on.
 

racerhomie

macrumors 6502
Aug 14, 2015
399
658
India
Google makes money from Safari users using its search, Google pays Apple some of that money (around $15 billion a year right now) so therefore Apple makes money form users on Safari. Yes, it may be more indirect but Apple still ends up profiting significantly from Safari users/usage.
Yeah, that can just be changed from the Settings
 
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