How will Apple counter Windows 8 tablets?

[Mak47]

OP assumes that people will like Windows 8 tablets because they will have Windows 8 PC's, this is also Microsofts assumption.

They are both wrong. Consumers will not be buying Windows 8 tablets to accompany their Windows 8 PC's--they'll be considering them as alternatives to Windows 8 PC's and by extension, lengthen the useful life of their existing PC's.

The ARM based Windows 8 tablets will not run a full desktop OS, it will be a Metro based version of it. Most of the tablets that get released at mass market friendly price points will run on ARM. If anyone is expecting those to come equipped with a range of ports or customization options, they will be sorely disappointed. It will essentially be a tablet version of Windows Phone.

The market has already proven that consumers prefer iOS and Android to the Metro platform when it comes to phones. That is unlikely to change. It is equally unlikely that consumers will prefer Metro to iOS on tablets either.

There is room for Metro tablets in the market, not to take market share from iOS, but to take it from Android. Android tablets have not caught on and are largely purchased by people who are specifically seeking an alternative to the iPad for one reason or another. Metro tablets should present a viable alternative that many of those consumers will choose.

 

[Piggie]

Well it just seems from your posts, and comments like these in particular, that you're wanting iOS to be something it's not, and may never be. Windows 8 on a tablet may be more to your liking.

With regard to iTunes, whatever you think of it as software, the fact so many people have their entire music libraries on it, plus other media, makes it a very attractive feature for, I would assume, the vast majority of iOS users.

I guess it's a little like Word being a must for many PC users, even though it is, arguably, a deeply flawed piece of software design and has been for years.

With iTunes, I'm not so sure people really WANT to use it, it's that you HAVE to use it. Believe me, in no way did I want to install iTunes on my PC for my iPad but I had no choice.
I've never and will never buy any music or video from iTunes. I only have to use it to move photo's and my music and my video files to and from my iPad and to back up my iPad.

I've not upgraded my iPad1, mainly as there is basically no REAL difference between an iPad1 and iPad2 or an iPad3

If the iPad3 really did some major stuff the iPad1 could not do then I may have upgraded, but as of yet, there is no real reason to do anything.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love the iPad4 to be very powerful and totally incompatible with my old iPad1 so I'd have to buy it, and be blown away by what it can do, and again, I suspect even iPad4 is only going to be a tweak of iPad3

To be fair, and totally honest, apart from a few moments on a game, checking email and listening to a podcast I hardly touch my iPad anyway as it just cannot run the software I want to run, and/or I always have better hardware next to me (real computers) than offer me a much larger screen and masses more power.

That said, I like the idea of a tablet, just not one that's so locked down. So I am open minded about my next purchase.

 

[Pinkie Pie]

For example, I work with 30 people, 1 of which has an iPhone and none of which have iPads.

Counter-anecdote: I was at a party with over 30 people last night and only one of them DIDN'T have an iPhone. That's what you'll see at ANY gathering of middle-class 20-somethings/college students, or even teenagers (it gets kind of spooky). All of my aunts, uncles and cousins have iPhones. My grandma who has literally never touched a computer in her life just got an iPad.

TONS of people are familiar with iOS and have been for years now. No need to stress.

 

[Carouser]

Honestly iTunes is a horrid pile of software.
Needing to lock my iPad to one PC is a terrible lock down, upon threat of having my iPad wiped clean if I connect to another PC to move data to and fro from.

The iPad isn't designed to move data to and from multiple PCs. A better recommendation is a flash drive. But see below!

I'm not trolling. I just want to be free to do as I want with the hardware I have chosen to buy. Is that asking too much?

This complaint amounts to "The thing I bought doesn't do things it doesn't do". Why don't you buy something which does what you need next time?

I simply, like many other people, just want to connect my tablet to my PC and drag and drop music/movies and other data to and from it. Without any lock down iTunes requirement.

Nobody wants to do this. Nobody says "I want to drag data around and to do so on a tablet and that is my end goal".

Here's some actual use cases:
1) "I want to access something on my device"
2) "I want to access something across devices"
3) "I want to share something with others"

In each of these cases, turning the iPad into a glorified flash drive is a sub-optimal solution, and only appears like a good idea when one ignores the complexity and problems this solution would incur. But this has been explained to you before! Cross-device syncing (iCloud) and profile management (data access is tied to the user account, not the physical product in your hand) is a far better solution.

EDIT: The irony is that this poster is still using an iPad 1, the implication being that competitors haven't been able to make anything more attractive than a two-generations old Apple device.

 

[Piggie]

OP assumes that people will like Windows 8 tablets because they will have Windows 8 PC's, this is also Microsofts assumption.

I would think it's probably well proven that most people like something they know and understand already. Especially non tech types who don't want drastic change just for change sake.

If you own an iPhone and you are used to its interface and have iPhone apps, then there is probably a higher chance you will naturally be drawn to an iPad as it's a familiar looking device.

I would feel this is true of many things in life. Perhaps like that which they are comfortable with already.

This is not true today.

But let's say in 18 months time, Mr and Mrs Smith a normal could who work in a Bakery and Sweet shop respectively and have a PC at home they bought new from Best Buy a year ago, and have been using Metro for the past year with it's new Apps to write emails, browse the web and do simple computing tasks (they are not heavily into computers) think about a tablet for the coffee table at home.
They walk into Best Buy and see a few rows of Windows 8 tablets all running the same front end they are familiar with and know how to use. Then at the end of the row is the iPad which they have seen adverts for, but never really taken much notice of.
Which machines are they more lightly to feel more comfortable selecting?

The Windows 8 tablet, with the look and feel then know and understand, or this Apple product they know nothing really about and looks so different from what they know. Plus they are told they will then need something called iTunes installed to make it all work well.

I think we all know the logical answer to this possible scenario don't we?

And also explains why the vast majority of people don't own Mac's around the world now. As in general people stick to what they know.

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The iPad isn't designed to move data to and from multiple PCs. A better recommendation is a flash drive. But see below!



This complaint amounts to "The thing I bought doesn't do things it doesn't do". Why don't you buy something which does what you need next time?



Nobody wants to do this. Nobody says "I want to drag data around and to do so on a tablet and that is my end goal".

Here's some actual use cases:
1) "I want to access something on my device"
2) "I want to access something across devices"
3) "I want to share something with others"

In each of these cases, turning the iPad into a glorified flash drive is a sub-optimal solution, and only appears like a good idea when one ignores the complexity and problems this solution would incur. But this has been explained to you before! Cross-device syncing (iCloud) and profile management (data access is tied to the user account, not the physical product in your hand) is a far better solution.

The problem with what you are saying, and I have seen it said a number of times by various people is:
This all works well if you totally give your sole to Apple, use all their hardware, store your data they way they want to to store it, ideally buy your data from them also, and just do as you are told.

If you don't want to embrace all of it, then you will find yourself constantly fighting they system.
I bought an iPad as it was the best tablet at the time. And I was prepared to put up with/suffer the lock downs that went with it.
I don't like or want the lock downs, I just put up with them, and as soon as I can find a product that offers me what I want I'm happy to move onto something better.

 

[Carouser]

But let's say in 18 months time, Mr and Mrs Smith a normal could who work in a Bakery and Sweet shop respectively and have a PC at home they bought new from Best Buy a year ago, and have been using Metro for the past year with it's new Apps to write emails, browse the web and do simple computing tasks (they are not heavily into computers) think about a tablet for the coffee table at home.
They walk into Best Buy and see a few rows of Windows 8 tablets all running the same front end they are familiar with and know how to use. Then at the end of the row is the iPad which they have seen adverts for, but never really taken much notice of.
Which machines are they more lightly to feel more comfortable selecting?

Counterpoint: The real world, where Windows 8 is an interface nightmare for anybody used to Windows 7 or previous versions, and where millions of people have somehow managed to use iOS even when it has nothing to do with the Windows interface they had been used to.

Making up hypotheticals which are simply self-serving doesn't make any kind of point whatsoever.

Plus they are told they will then need something called iTunes installed to make it all work well.

Now you're just telling lies.

The problem with what you are saying, and I have seen it said a number of times by various people is:
This all works well if you totally give your sole to Apple, use all their hardware, store your data they way they want to to store it, ideally buy your data from them also, and just do as you are told.

Actually it works well for people using both Apple and Windows products. But you are right, people are free to buy alternatives if they wish. But someone who complains about how limiting Apple products are, and keeps buying Apple products? What a strange kind of person this is!

I bought an iPad as it was the best tablet at the time. And I was prepared to put up with/suffer the lock downs that went with it.
I don't like or want the lock downs, I just put up with them, and as soon as I can find a product that offers me what I want I'm happy to move onto something better.

Shorter version: All things considered, the iPad is still the best thing for your needs you can buy. When something better appears, you will buy that.

But this applies to literally everybody, so I'm not sure what your point is. "Oh no, this thing, despite some faults I can find with it, is still better than anything else I can get. What a problem I have!"

 

[Piggie]

Counterpoint: The real world, where Windows 8 is an interface nightmare for anybody used to Windows 7 or previous versions, and where millions of people have somehow managed to use iOS even when it has nothing to do with the Windows interface they had been used to.

Making up hypotheticals which are simply self-serving doesn't make any kind of point whatsoever.



Now you're just telling lies.

I've no doubt there is going to be a lot of resistance to Windows 8 on the desktop, how much turnes out to be true and how many people with new PC's downgrade them to Windows 7, we will just have to wait and see.

So do you feel, today it's totally practical to run and use an iPad without iTunes installed on a computer at home?

 

[Carouser]

I've no doubt there is going to be a lot of resistance to Windows 8 on the desktop, how much turnes out to be true and how many people with new PC's downgrade them to Windows 7, we will just have to wait and see.

You've asserted that people will just go with what's familiar, and that they'll go with Windows 8 tablets because that's what they are used to using. Now you're just refusing to stand by what you claim.

The ol' Piggie "Maybe the market will flip overnight if we ignore all evidence but I'm just wondering, who knows" jig.

So do you feel, today it's totally practical to run and use an iPad without iTunes installed on a computer at home?

I feel the claim "Mr. and Mrs. whatever will be told that they will need iTunes to make their iPad run well" and "the logical outcome of this is that they'll buy a Windows 8 tablet as a result" is two units of utter nonsense.

 

[phpmaven]

It's not awkward at all, just different. From the desktop, the only time you'll go to the Metro Start screen is to open an app you don't have pinned to the taskbar. You're hardly forced to move back and forth between it constantly to accomplish basic tasks.

Well... I respectfully disagree. I tried out the preview on a PC and I found it really awkward. I can see it working really well on a tablet, but I don't think it translated well to the desktop. Sure you can stay out of the Metro interface, but then what's the point? The rest looks pretty much like Windows 7.

 

[Irishman]

How will Apple counter Windows 8 tablets?
Or indeed do you think they have to?

Apple has, in effect one tablet. Ok it comes in 3 memory sizes, 3G or not 3G and two colours. But in effect it's one model in one size with one speed.

Windows 8 tablets will come from a whole range of high end PC makers, In a variety of styles, screen sizes and powers. Some based upon Intel chipsets, others based on ARM chipsets.
Not only able to run tablet Metro based apps, but also full windows apps if you, the consumer should need or wish to.

Apple can see this coming with their, in effect single product, only make by themselves in the one size and design.

Do you think they are just not going to bother and assume they are untouchable in their current leading position, or do you think they are going to have to come out with a new product or products to offer consumers the choice that they will have from Windows 8 models.

In a years time there could be a whole line of various Windows 8 tablets on display at Best Buy, all running Metro, looking the same as Windows 8 does on people's new home computers. Are apple just going to still have just their single model on a stand at the end of the long line of Windows 8 models?

They will buy certain models and tear them apart to see if there is anything worth emulating (read copying). If so, it will show up in future idevices. If not, we'll never know about it.

Next?

 

[Renzatic]

Counterpoint: The real world, where Windows 8 is an interface nightmare for anybody used to Windows 7 or previous versions, and where millions of people have somehow managed to use iOS even when it has nothing to do with the Windows interface they had been used to.

So what you're saying is that Windows 8 is unusable because it's nothing like Windows 7, yet iOS succeeded despite that?

And anyway, the Windows 8 interface is hardly the nightmare some people like to make it out to be. While I'll admit that it isn't 100% perfect, it also isn't a complete travesty of UI design. Getting used to it took me all of...I dunno...10 minutes or so. Once I got a feel for the ebb and flow of the new fullscreen start menu, I actually started preferring it to the old one.

Well... I respectfully disagree. I tried out the preview on a PC and I found it really awkward. I can see it working really well on a tablet, but I don't think it translated well to the desktop. Sure you can stay out of the Metro interface, but then what's the point? The rest looks pretty much like Windows 7.

The new Start menu? I disagree. The tiles are big, sure, but you can still fit more apps and organize them onscreen far more comfortably than you could the old pop-up Start menu.

Metro apps themselves? Yeah, I agree somewhat. They don't make the best use of space a desktop/laptop screen provides. Though, for now at least, they're only there as a handy way to access and organize your tablet apps from any platform. For that, I think it could be fairly handy.

 

[Piggie]

Well... I respectfully disagree. I tried out the preview on a PC and I found it really awkward. I can see it working really well on a tablet, but I don't think it translated well to the desktop. Sure you can stay out of the Metro interface, but then what's the point? The rest looks pretty much like Windows 7.

Perhaps it's because you, and also myself too are Old School and like Windows to be the way we feel it's always been and should be.

I'm not saying I'm thrilled by having what looks like a harder and longer method to log into Windows and shut down Windows than I currently use, and myself (old geek!) may well 99% of the time just bypass the Metro interface on the desktop and use Windows the way I'm used to using it.
However, I know just because I feel Metro will get in the the way of what I want to do, does not mean new users will feel the same.
I don't do news feeds, I don't do facebook, or any of that Junk
But many many millions? Do all this stuff and for them, and new people to Windows 8 they might, just might think the new live tiles are an easy way to use and understand their new desktop PC.
We can only wait an see.

 

[AppleInMyBlood]

Counter-anecdote: I was at a party with over 30 people last night and only one of them DIDN'T have an iPhone. That's what you'll see at ANY gathering of middle-class 20-somethings/college students, or even teenagers (it gets kind of spooky). All of my aunts, uncles and cousins have iPhones. My grandma who has literally never touched a computer in her life just got an iPad.

TONS of people are familiar with iOS and have been for years now. No need to stress.

I regularly have exactly the same experience.

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I've never and will never buy any music or video from iTunes. I only have to use it to move photo's and my music and my video files to and from my iPad and to back up my iPad.

You're thinking of the iPad as a standalone device, in a way. Once you have an Apple TV and an iPhone also, the iTunes ecosystem is a godsend.

I've not upgraded my iPad1, mainly as there is basically no REAL difference between an iPad1 and iPad2 or an iPad3

OK, now you've lost me.

So I am open minded about my next purchase.

Uh huh.

 

[Irishman]

One thing needs to be considered very carefully for the "average consumer"
In a few months time, most/many new PC's sold around the world, tens of millions, will come preloaded with Windows 8, which will give your typical consumer the new Metro interface to use and get used to at home.

What do you see as the compelling reason to buy a Windows 8 tablet?

 

[Medic311]

No one currently knows the answer to the OP's question and no one can possibly know yet. Anything else said in this thread is speculation or irrelevant fact spitting. Some threads would do better if they were closed and forgotten about.

It's clear the OP wanted to rile people up from the way the thread subject was worded. Read it. To top it off, it was posted in an Apple-centric forum.

 

[Rodster]

What do you see as the compelling reason to buy a Windows 8 tablet?

For me I see the Metro UI as compelling as well as full integration with Xbox Live and hopefully be able to download some Indie games and XBLA games as well. But i'm still keeping my iPad 3.

 

[Irishman]

For me I see the Metro UI as compelling as well as full integration with Xbox Live and hopefully be able to download some Indie games and XBLA games as well. But i'm still keeping my iPad 3.

Do you think that your use cases will be common to adopters of Windows 8 tablets?

 

[Piggie]

>> No real difference between iPad1 and 3

OK, now you've lost me.
:

Well, it's just the same sized device, with the same buttons and connectors.
Only small differences are a camera, a higher resolution screen on the latest model and runs a little faster.

There is nothing really more of any significance I could really do or run on the latest model that I can't do on my original device.
I don't feel I'm shut out of new apps/games by still having the original device.

I perhaps was expecting more change by now.

 

[Rodster]

Do you think that your use cases will be common to adopters of Windows 8 tablets?

Not sure tbh but i'm a gamer and love XBL.

I do think that new users could get on quite easily with the Metro UI. It's a very simplistic UI. But again tbh I won't use it on my desktop gaming rig. Now if it used an entirely new file system and no registry I might overlook the negatives of it as a desktop OS.

 

[Piggie]

It's clear the OP wanted to rile people up from the way the thread subject was worded. Read it. To top it off, it was posted in an Apple-centric forum.

Honestly no.

I was interested to see what people felt Apple may do. as till now they've pretty much had the market to themselves. Using legal methods to try and kill off competition if it looks like it may pose a threat.

Now they have to deal with the Big Boy, and I'm interested if they will try and say Windows 8 tablets look look much like iPad's and try and fight dirty, or they will have their hand forced into upping their game with more variety to customers in future models.

Without Msoft, and keeping Android mixed up with legal arguments, I could not see Apple doing much at all over the new 2 or 3 iPad revisions.

Now however, I feel they are going to need to up their game. Which even Apple lovers should be happy about.

 

[Carouser]

So what you're saying is that Windows 8 is unusable because it's nothing like Windows 7, yet iOS succeeded despite that?

No, I'm saying that the claim "People will shy away from iOS and choose Windows 8 instead because they like familiarity" is wrong twice over.

People are clearly able to use different interfaces (see the mass takeup of iOS devices by people who had never touched an Apple product).

Also, Windows 8 is at least as different from Windows 7 as OS X and iOS are from Windows 7.

In sum, there is no world in which the following is true: "People will buy Windows 8 tablets over an Apple tablet because of the familiar interface".

Well, it's just the same sized device, with the same buttons and connectors.
Only small differences are a camera, a higher resolution screen on the latest model and runs a little faster.

There is nothing really more of any significance I could really do or run on the latest model that I can't do on my original device.
I don't feel I'm shut out of new apps/games by still having the original device.

I perhaps was expecting more change by now.

Perhaps you would have liked it if they changed the buttons and connectors and your original iPad was utterly deprecated as well? This would have been an advance for you? Why would Apple make anything else? They've already made something which you appear quite content with, especially in light of all the other tablets you could have bought.

Before someone says "This is why Apple needs more competition" they've already had lots of competition, and the iPad is the successful result. The competition the iPad poses to other manufacturers would suggest that those competitors would make something amazing in response, but they haven't.

I was interested to see what people felt Apple may do.

They'll probably continue to produce a superior product with a better value proposition than their competitors. They'll do so because that's how they became and remain successful. The smears about legal battles and Windows forcing their hand is drivel. Unless you want to argue that the reason for people buying millions of iPads in a record short period is because Apple shut down the competition which people would otherwise have bought (which would also be drivel!).

 

[Irishman]

Not sure tbh but i'm a gamer and love XBL.

I do think that new users could get on quite easily with the Metro UI. It's a very simplistic UI. But again tbh I won't use it on my desktop gaming rig. Now if it used an entirely new file system and no registry I might overlook the negatives of it as a desktop OS.

The problem any new tablet is going to have (especially one with a GUI as radically different as Metro) is that they will be fighting for 10% of the tablet market, fighting RIM and HP, not Apple and Android (who divide 90% of the tablet market between them). Microsoft is coming VERY late to the game and will not be guaranteed success in this space.

In my view, Metro will be a polarizing GUI. People will love it or hate it, I'm betting. I'll go further and posit that long-term Windows users will rail against it (these will be the same people who disable Metro on Windows 8 because it disrupts their daily workflow at work or home). The potential loss of folks currently using Windows 6.5 or Windows Phone 7 who dislike Metro and pick one of the other OS's (iOS or Android) can't be overestimated.

Microsoft has their work cut out for them to succeed in the tablet space with Windows 8 or Windows RT.

 

[Rodster]

The problem any new tablet is going to have (especially one with a GUI as radically different as Metro) is that they will be fighting for 10% of the tablet market, fighting RIM and HP, not Apple and Android (who divide 90% of the tablet market between them). Microsoft is coming VERY late to the game and will not be guaranteed success in this space.

In my view, Metro will be a polarizing GUI. People will love it or hate it, I'm betting. I'll go further and posit that long-term Windows users will rail against it (these will be the same people who disable Metro on Windows 8 because it disrupts their daily workflow at work or home). The potential loss of folks currently using Windows 6.5 or Windows Phone 7 who dislike Metro and pick one of the other OS's (iOS or Android) can't be overestimated.

Microsoft has their work cut out for them to succeed in the tablet space with Windows 8 or Windows RT.

I agree with all of the above.

OTOH Microsoft's S.O.P. is based on endurance and not a sprint and they do have the resources. Sony did not take them seriously with the XBOX when Sony was dominating with the Playstation 2. Today Microsoft has leapfrogged them as the #2 console, currently.

Will MS topple Apple and the iPad? I doubt it but they put a lot of money and effort to push their product just like they did with the original XBOX and make it a success.

 

[Piggie]

Actually, I feel Google/Android tablets have more to worry about than Apple.

Apple will always have they're loyal followers no matter what.
Even if some iPad owners change over to Windows 8 tablets, Apple will still continue for a long time to lead the tablet market (long term who knows) but for the near future I think that's a given.

But Android tablets. Who's going to bother?

They have been a mess so far, Taking ages for different makes to get the latest OS running on them, and really not many really good models to pick from. Samsung really being the leader I'd say with a nice product.

But when you have an iPad and a Windows 8 tablet to choose from with all the MASSIVE support both platforms are going to get. Who is really going to go out of their way to buy Android any more?

Apart perhaps from the very low end cheap end of the market, where I suppose Android tablets could carry on quite well thinking about it.

The high end is going to be be dominated but Apple and Windows 8 I'd guess.

 

[TheWheelMan]

A lot of people seem to want the iPad to be something its not meant to be (or claim that they do so they have an excuse to put it down). I didn't buy my iPad to replace my PC, and I don't want it to. If you want something that does what the iPad doesn't do, then you should buy something else instead of putting down the iPad.