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How will Apple counter Windows 8 tablets?
- Thread starter Piggie
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Like everything. Different people have different needs.
Does everyone in the entire world select a car based upon how many miles per gallon it can do?
No, for some the inconvenience of more frequent trips to the gas station is a price worth paying to get the car of the size/power they wish to own.
Like todays laptops. Some people DO buy "gaming laptops" and/or ones that don't last a day on a charge as they want the full power a high end model bring them.
Perhaps they want to play the latest games or do high end video editing and crunch the data really fast.
Everyone has different needs.
And there is nothing wrong with giving customers a choice, just like Apple do with MacBooks, iMacs and iPods. But they don't yet with iPads.
Well of course. But what needs would a tablet that needs to remain plugged in because the battery goes dead quickly and is barely more portable over a thin laptop going to fulfill?
Honestly I could say the same about the iPhone and most smart phones.
I won't buy a phone that runs dead in a day. I want a good week's battery life out of my phone. I can't think of anything worse than having to remember to charge my phone every day, or having to make sure I carry a charger with me where I go in case my phone dies on me mid-day.
To "ME" that's just something I'm not prepared to live with.
To others, it's a "Price worth paying" to get the type of device functionality they want.
Am I right? No.
Are you right? No.
We just have different priorities.
I want a phone to, shock horror, make phone calls and send texts.
Others want to play games and post to facebook.
Again, no one is right or wrong. We just have different needs and priorities.
Perhaps someone is very very much into world of warcraft and wants nothing more than to play this on their tablet, which runs for 4 hours on a battery.
Someone else may be happy just playing Angry Birds all day.
The problem we have on mostly Apple forums in general is there are too many people who can't think for themselves or are open to the concept that perhaps, just perhaps, not everyone on the planet wants what Apple.inc things they should be doing/using.
Hence, why Apple DO give customers a choice of specs with others things they make. Some people so want a tiny light macbook air. Others may want a larger heavier and more powerful macbook pro with a DVD drive in the side.
Just accept and acknowledge that the current iPad, which a nice device, it's just one option. and not everyone, even those who have an iPad thinks it's the ideal device in every way for them.
If Apple do not give customers any choice, and other brands come along in the future that do give customers a model more suited to their needs, then who knows............
Certainly, if Apple, on launch day released a 7"m a 10" and a 14" iPad, not one person on these forums would be saying they were wrong for offering 3 sizes, perhaps also with different ports on the larger model.
Because Apple offered only one size iPad on launch, I went ahead and pre-ordered one the moment pre-orders opened.
If they had offered different sizes at launch, I would have been like, "hmmmmm, I need to hold and compare the models before deciding which one is right for me. I'll wait until they are in stores so I can compare before buying one."
If many people felt the same as me, Apple wouldn't have gotten as many pre-orders as they did, which might have dampened enthusiasm for the iPad, which might have led to less sales...
As for battery life, while I'm sure for some people a phone with a battery that lasts less than a week is a deal-breaker, I think the popularity of smartphones prove thatt for most people, the shorter battery life is an acceptable compromise for the additional features a smartphone provides. Likewise, of course there will be some people who are willing to accept shorter battery life on a tablet for increased performance.
But while from a customer's perspective, it might seem like the solution is to have as many different price/features/battery life combinations as possible so they can pick the one that exactly suits them, from the manufacturer's perspective, each additional model is a drain on their resources, in terms of r&d costs, inventory, etc. Apple seems to have the knack of hitting on the one model that the most customers find desirable/acceptable. This of course leaves the minority of customers with non-mainstream needs/wants having to look elsewhere for a product to buy. But Apple seems to have decided that they don't mind losing those customers in order to keep their product lineup simple. Don't agree with that philosophy, then don't buy Apple. Simple.
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Ok. I can accept that as a Day 1 thought and if you don't know if it will even say, I can see not being too extravagant with model choices may be financially safe.
The very very early laptops were just the 1 model, so I accept your point here.
So, iPad2, and now iPad3 and perhaps iPad4 ?
More variations needed?
Didn't bother reading the thread apart from the first post, but I'll say this: Apple will do nothing to counter windows 8 tablets. They won't try to compete with it at all, they'll totally ignore it.
Why? Because they don't compete with other companies - they just build the best product they possibly can and release it. They'll continue to do that, and other companies will continue trying to counter them instead.
Why? Because they don't compete with other companies - they just build the best product they possibly can and release it. They'll continue to do that, and other companies will continue trying to counter them instead.
This is simply not true.
How do you define best?
Does Apple use the Best (fastest), Intel CPU's in it's products? No.
Does Apple use the Best (fastest), AMD or Nvidea GPU's in it's products? No.
Again, how do YOU define Best?
I am fine with my iphone lasting a good day on a single charge (typically averages 2 though). The only time I would want a dumbphone would be when I go back for my annual army reservist stint. When you are outfield for 3-4 days with no power, you start appreciating those nokia phones which can easily last a week in between charges (that and the military bans the use of camera phones).
Also, I find nokia phones are really built like tanks. Mine has taken a severe beating over the years and is only slightly worse for wear.
I would imagine Apple will do do something like this at some point, but not for a while. It's a good idea, but the technology just isn't there yet.
If you watch the demo videos, you can see that it works just as awkward as as you would expect it to (actually it looks a bit worse than I was expecting) -- A poorly connected top heavy lid that can barely hold itself up, and wants to tip the whole mess over all the time ...
When the iPad shrinks to something like half it's current weight, and you can slap it onto the laptop keyboard part like you can do with the iPad mag-lid ... then that seems like something Apple would do.
Lots of interesting things are going to be happening in this area.
I think windows 8 will loose every time they want to compete with iOS. Windows is shifting their ballgame and moving towards the whole unified App Driven Interface which was first established by Apple in the post PC world. With ios 6 Apple will make some huge changes making their iOS more customized and adding lots of features.
The Windows 8 App Marketplace is relatively hollow compared to the iOS Marketplace. If you are an iPad or iphone user then you will agree that it is Apps that helps make Apple devices what they are. In order for Windows 8 to compete with Apple iPad they need developers devoting time in building great apps.
Another reason why Apple will win is because they like to keep things simple. Really a tablet is all about performing the day to day task in an engaging interactive environment. Even a non techy 60 year old guy can use an iPad. I bet you they will struggle with galaxy tab and windows 8 because they try to put in too much thus making things complicated.
Thus, Windows 8 poses no real threat to the domination of iPad in the tablet market.
The Windows 8 App Marketplace is relatively hollow compared to the iOS Marketplace. If you are an iPad or iphone user then you will agree that it is Apps that helps make Apple devices what they are. In order for Windows 8 to compete with Apple iPad they need developers devoting time in building great apps.
Another reason why Apple will win is because they like to keep things simple. Really a tablet is all about performing the day to day task in an engaging interactive environment. Even a non techy 60 year old guy can use an iPad. I bet you they will struggle with galaxy tab and windows 8 because they try to put in too much thus making things complicated.
Thus, Windows 8 poses no real threat to the domination of iPad in the tablet market.
I'm thinking a tablet bigger than the current iPad made with the same materials would be too heavy to hold comfortably. Technology would have to improve before we get a bigger iPad.
As for a smaller, 7-8 inch iPad, personally, I doubt I'll use one. But I wouldn't be surprised if Apple does come out with one, nor would I be surprised if they don't come out with one. There does seem to be some demand for a tablet that size, but the question is whether Apple decides if the demand is large enough to make it worth their while.
This it totally backwards thinking, and if you worked in product design you'd be in trouble
To define the best product, you simply decide what you want it to do and how you want people to use it. Then you work out the best way to achieve that, and select parts that get the job done. The speed of the parts is utterly irrelevant so long as they're good enough.
If you start by thinking in terms of CPU speed or whatever you end up competing with a dozen taiwanese manufacturers for the bottom end of the market, and who puts the biggest numbers on the spec sheet for the lowest price wins just enough profit to stay afloat.
Think about the iPhone: did apple think "We need to beat windows mobile, so we need a faster CPU and more RAM" or did they think "We need to improve the phone, lets see how we can make it better."?
Here's something I'm confused about with regards to your logic on windows 8 tablets.
Under your logic, windows 8 tablets will succeed because they're coming from an os that'll be successful and ubiquitous. Fair enough.
Yet, this logic doesn't translate to the unsuccessful nature of android tablets. The android os dominates the mobile phone landscape from the sheer number of phones out there, yet the tablets fail in sales numbers to the ipad.
Please explain how your logic results in a failure for android but not for windows.
I've never seen a notebook that has a 10 hour battery life, weighs less than 2 lbs and costs $500. If you know of a computer with these specs, then please tell me. I'd even put up with the stink of windows.
*I rounded up to 2 lbs to account for the keyboard.
Going back to android tablets, they have faster processors, have removable storage, include adobe's flash and have a host of other features that ipad doesn't have. Yet, hardly anybody buys those tablets.
Another example is the ipod. If you spend an hour on the audiophile forums, you'll find out they have a hate for the ipod and mp3s and like other players and music formats better. Yet, the ipod is the most successful music player.
You bought an ipad and never replaced it with an android tablet, so perhaps you should tell us what makes the ipad better than an android tablet.
Here's why I think windows 8 will not dominate the tablet market:
-No vertical integration of software and hardware. IMO, android failed because a tablet requires tight integration in order to maximize its potential. Google bought motorola because they realized the importance of integration. Tablets aren't computers; microsoft will eventually realize this and release their own.
-Manufacturer will determine when you get your updates. You can knock apple for many things, but the user gets to determine when they install the next update. Unlike android and (likely) windows, you don't have to wait months and months to install an update.
-The app store. The ipad's killer app is, quite literally, its apps. The selection of tablet apps in android's store is pitiful. I haven't looked at the app store for microsoft, but I can safely say that it sucks.
Considering that no win 8 tablets have come out yet, you have no guarantee they'll even be successful.
I contend that your arguments have been based on a faulty premise and that these pages have just been a circle jerk.
They give customers a choice because they offer MacBooks, iMacs, iPods, and iPads. If an iPad doesn't do whatever you want, I'll bet another Apple product does. And if it doesn't, then Apple is successful because they know which market niches to cede to other manufacturers.
How many times do you have to be told this, Piggie? Apple offers multiple iPad options, just like they offer multiple options of their other products. You've just arbitrarily decided that the iPad differences don't really matter, but the laptop ones do, and concluded that there's only one iPad.
In other words, the company making the products which people want will sell those products. Bravo!!
Actually, the problem on these forums is poorly-thought-out arguments which are repeated ad nauseum without any reflection, coupled with stupid strawmen about Apple users.
This it totally backwards thinking, and if you worked in product design you'd be in trouble
To define the best product, you simply decide what you want it to do and how you want people to use it. Then you work out the best way to achieve that, and select parts that get the job done. The speed of the parts is utterly irrelevant so long as they're good enough.
If you start by thinking in terms of CPU speed or whatever you end up competing with a dozen taiwanese manufacturers for the bottom end of the market, and who puts the biggest numbers on the spec sheet for the lowest price wins just enough profit to stay afloat.
Think about the iPhone: did apple think "We need to beat windows mobile, so we need a faster CPU and more RAM" or did they think "We need to improve the phone, lets see how we can make it better."?
So true. It doesn't matter what Apple does, competitors are constantly trying to outdo them on specs, rather than ideas, usability and engineering innovation. That's where the other guys consistently get it wrong.
Since switching in 2007, I, at the age of 64, realize,
is on the cutting edge, always out in front, always innovating, when they succeed, the copycatsWell up and offer their versions, some succeed,some fail, Zune et all, simple point, with Apples stunning success with ultralights, throngs of copycats ensue, and pushed by INTEL, who
coddled to get the exact low volt CPU they needed to succeed,then INTEL offers the same CPU to the copycats, cannot be happy,and I believe are working with AMD/ARM to develop graphics/processor for all their future notebooks.It is my opinion, INTEL screwed the pooch on this one, and I SAY, they are pissed, especially since INTEL is in the forefront of promoting MBA like machines. Payback is a bitchthat's great, but it the software running on that OS that will work with tablets that will make or break this deal. Same problem Microsoft had with window tablets and UMPC in the past: no software. The OS only gets you so far.
Trust me, I would love this to go mainstream. I would love a transformer like win8 tablet, the tablet being the size and weight of an iPad. I would like something more robust than the sandboxed iPad, but I am not going to be on the leading edge of this technology . I suffered with a UMPC for 2 years, I will not be an early adopter here.
You certainly do perseverate on this "give customers a choice" thing as if it's every company's duty to create a broad spectrum of products for every conceivable taste.
Apple is a multi-billion dollar company that serves the interests of its investors. You seem to think that they have an agenda to deny you every variation of product that you deem useful when their agenda is really profitability year-over-year and quarter-over-quarter. Smarter minds than yours or mine have discussed the viability of other products within their lineup. Believe me, if they can devise a way to introduce a different size iPad that won't lead to reduced profitability they will release one.
I would not say my thoughts about 3 rather than 1 tablet size/spec was a broad spectrum.
There is no rational logic to say Apple are correct to offer a selection if iMacs with differing specs, and a selection of MacBooks with differening specs, and then to also say it's correct for them not to do the same with tablets.
The only reason to say Apple is correct in still only offering one tablet is because Apple DO only offer one tablet.
You know as well as I do, that if Apple did have 3 tablets on offer today, and I posted here that it was wrong and they should only be making the one model, then I was be told I was wrong, and they're should be a choice as that is what Apple has done.
You know this is what would be said. I just enjoy, and find it refreshing when people are thinking independently for themselves and not just acting like Apple PR spokesmen or women
You're taking this far too personally. Nobody's saying you're wrong for wanting more variety in the lineup, it's just that your wanting it doesn't make it Apple's duty to produce it.
Do you really think that it would intentionally limit its product line if it believed that it could be more profitable selling a range of iPads? If Apple has demonstrated anything it's a shrewd business sense. If the 7" makes financial sense to the company then you'll see it.
The beauty of an iPad is that it talks to everything in a mac environment. So if you have appletv's and iMacs and iPhones etc...then all those devices talk to each other to create one big ecosystem. While I think the Windows 8 Tabs will be nice and at times could be a more productive device, it will still be limited by minimal connectivity, and/or reliability of that connectivity because of all the different manufacturers. In all Windows is a resource hog, and I don't think Windows 8 will be an exception. Viruses will attack Win 8 Tabs, you will have to kill tasks...you know the typical windows stuff.....you still have to boot it up, load a program up and hope it can be manipulated via the touchscreen intuitively. All this being said....I will probably still pick one up for occasional use.