How would YOU spend $3000 at the Apple store?

[daveg5]

Re: Re: you cant go wrong with either

Originally posted by John Q Public
There is one HUGE difference between LCD and CRT...production of heat...

Dave G5: i dont know where you live or what crt you have but i have a 9x12 bedroom and the 21 sony does not add much heat, back in the day yea but no more, also in most living rooms are crts and people still use the heaters, crts are not fire hazards, you embellish too much unless you had a bad one

JOHN:I'll concede CRT image quality is approaching that of LCD Panels...and LCD's are nearly as competent with motion as a CRT...

DaveG5: you got this backwards totally crts were here much longer its only in recent years that lcds could even be used for games, video and graphics but they are approaching crt quality in color, motion, viewing angle, but they are not there yet, this is a fact, they have however surpassed crts' only in contrast and brightness but the new superbright crt tubes are coming back strong there.

John:My 23" CinemaHD is a beautiful example of that...vertical refresh of 75 (considering the average human eye only registers 60fps...and on a monitor it can still be seen as flickering)...but the reasons I plopped down the big cash:

DaveG5: granted the 23"cinema is incredible at its native res, crt monitors like the lacie scan at 85+ refresh at 2036x1546 and well over a 100 refresh up to 200 refresh at lower res with no visible flicker unless you are filming from a camcorder using a diff refresh rate.
you must check out a newer gen crt not the older flickering ones which were bad here in the past.

JOHN:Far Less Real-Estate...only takes up 24"x8" (little wide...but I can live with that)...unlike a monitor that (at bare minimum as deep as it has viewable screen) takes up far more space (even worse that I'm accustomed to a wide workspace provided by 2 monitors...that is more than liveable with my Cinema)

DaveG5: this is totally true and one of Lcds biggest selling point and why they sold well even when they were bad for video and color and at ridiculous prices, remember the apple 15" flat display for $2000 virtually all those old flickering 17"crt outperformed it in everything back then but were to big and had noticeable flicker at anything under 75 refresh

John:Fewer Wires...taking advantage of ADC lets me have only one wire for Power/Display/USB Hub...and likewise fewer wires to my G4's case...makes a much neater desktop than when I had my G3 (or god forbid my PC)...one from the wall to UPS...2 from the UPS to Case (one power, one USB)...from the case one USB (to the "Lower Hub" that supplies Printer, Scanner and MIDI adapter)...the ADC (with it's 2 port Hub one for KB (Mouse is off of KB) one for Floppy)...and lastly 1/8" stereo-minijack for my speakers...makes for a cleaner desk.
..
Dave G5: this is not really true most highend crts use just 2 cables 1 power one vga or dvi. also many like the lacie 22" have built in 4 port usb 1.1 hubs so at worst you have 1 more cable which may be better and less strain on your G5
but you will have a much cleaner desk with an Lcd agreed.

JOHN:then we have the heat issue if you run a big monitor 19"-24" CRT...then you know about heat...if you run more than one...and a G4 (G5's are also likely excelent heat producers)...you're likely to get run out of the room quickly.

DaveG5: with one of the newer Large Crts you wont be much hotter then the crt you are running now., however i agree with two you may be which is why i suggest a crt/Lcd combo for the best of both worlds..

JOHN:my G4 still produces ample heat to let me NOT use the heater in the winter (seeing that I live in Florida...leave the windows open whenever the machine is on in the winter)...but with an LCD...the heat isn't anywhere near as bad than when I ran CRT's.

Dave G5. well i never heard anyone say that but i am in the north snow in winter and we still cut on the heater, we dont sit around the crt warming our hands and melting marshmillows.., so i must take your word on your heat issue.

John:if you can afford to do it...get the "Flat Panel"...you can get an NEC/Mitsubishi 18.1" (Native 1280x1024) usually under $500 (and lower quality LCD's close to the price of CRT's)...but it's all a personal preference thing...I bought mine...and yes...I know there aren't too many people with the disposable income to buy a $2000 LCD Panel (...I've heard a few comments about more money than brains from a few friends who are jealous of the new toys I bought when my G3 died...what can I say...I was in mourning...for about 4 1/2 hours...LOL...)

DaveG5:i would suggest the mitsubishi/nec 19" 1600x1200+ crts you can get refurbs with warranties well under $200 or new for around $299 with 3-5 year warranties and no dead pixels or native res.

I think the 23" cinema is awesome and if i had disposable income i would definitely recommend that also, however for video/graphics/games i would recommend the superior Lacie or nec/misu or sony 21- 22" 4th gen super brite crts. i am waiting to see them square off in tests. $649 and up with the money saved you can almost buy the G5 outright.
Also Lcds have been dropping half in price every two years and getting much better. so i expect 23" LCD in about a year at $1000 but it is a preference and pocketbook thing. even if one was clearly superior in all performance test it comes down to how will you use it, how much space do you have, how much money you have and if your cats have claws and kids have pointed pencil,like i said before they are close and you cant go wrong with either

 

[LethalWolfe]

Re: Re: you cant go wrong with either

Originally posted by John Q Public
My 23" CinemaHD is a beautiful example of that...vertical refresh of 75 (considering the average human eye only registers 60fps...and on a monitor it can still be seen as flickering)...but the reasons I plopped down the big cash:

Not to hijack the thread but the human eye is way more sensitive than that. Air Force pilots can ID pictures of aircraft flashed for 1/220th of a second. I can look thru the view finder of my camera and see the shutter open and close with the shutter speed set to 1/1000th of a second. And you can't really pin a FPS rating on the human eye because it is always "on" and doesn't refresh.


Lethal

 

[John Q Public]

Re: Re: Re: you cant go wrong with either

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Not to hijack the thread but the human eye is way more sensitive than that. Air Force pilots can ID pictures of aircraft flashed for 1/220th of a second. I can look thru the view finder of my camera and see the shutter open and close with the shutter speed set to 1/1000th of a second. And you can't really pin a FPS rating on the human eye because it is always "on" and doesn't refresh.


Lethal

my faux pas..I was referencing video and gaming...if the refresh rate is below 60fps (in gaming or high res video) there is noticable chop...if the video is interlaced (such as a traditional television) the point of becoming choppy is 35-40fps...

 

[John Q Public]

Re: Re: Re: you cant go wrong with either

you got this backwards totally crts were here much longer its only in recent years that lcds could even be used for games, video and graphics


not entirely though...CRT's until recently were the kings of gaming...but gave up much ground in sharpness and clarity of imaging...high end professional CRT's have always had better color definition...this isn't always true of "consumer" level hardware though...for CRT's I've always owned high-end NEC's...and I was impressed enough with the image quality of the CinemaHD...then I saw someone playing UT:3 (without "Artifacts")...after that I opened a vein and bought it...the one complaint I do have with the CinemaHD...Black...or more it's being a really dark grey rather than black...but it's a minor quibble that I've had with most CRT's also...so I'll live with it...LOL...

...another note...all the health and OSHA types have been recommending LCD's to reduce eye-strain...for reasons of image sharpness and brightness...

 

[Daveman Deluxe]

Re: Re: Re: you cant go wrong with either

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Not to hijack the thread but the human eye is way more sensitive than that. Air Force pilots can ID pictures of aircraft flashed for 1/220th of a second. I can look thru the view finder of my camera and see the shutter open and close with the shutter speed set to 1/1000th of a second. And you can't really pin a FPS rating on the human eye because it is always "on" and doesn't refresh.

Though your point is valid, the amount of time your viewfinder is closed (assuming it's a SLR) is MUCH longer than 1/1000 of a second. Though the shutter itself is only open that long, there are other mechanisms involved in the process that close off your viewfinder and do so for much longer than 1/1000 of a second.