HP Defends New Ultrabook Design Against Noted Similarities to Apple's MacBook Air

[mdriftmeyer]

Is this product made from a single block of aluminum? If they copied Apple's patented process then yes I'd expect Apple to sue.

Otherwise, move along. This is nothing but a publicity stunt to draw attention for HP.

 

[canman4PM]

so are they supposed to make a fat ultrabook with a upsidedown keyboard and a black and white display to make sure it looks nothing like a mba which is just another laptop. If you nitpick enough every laptop will look the same because thats just how laptops looks

Apple is just great at making everything look minimalistic (good thing btw) which is obvs hard not to "copy" bc theres not much others can change

Very true. And not just with Ultrabook/MBAs. The vast majority of PCs are similar looking towers and have been for decades. Normal laptops are pretty hard to tell apart from 5 feet away, monitors all look pretty much alike. And not just computers. Any product designed for mass appeal will follow the fashion of the day. Stainless steel appliances, most cars, you can name a thousand other products.

It's what's under the hood that matters. As the old adds for Honda used to say: "Inside every Honda car, is a Honda engine." That's just as true with computers.

 

[NorEaster]

It seems that Apple are good at finding solutions that have not been used before. Others not so much.

Why in the world are fanboys so damn blind to what Apple does? Apple doesn't always find the solutions that haven't been used before (look no further than iOS notifications). And remember what Steve himself said: "Good artists copy; great artists steal."

 

[Cactii]

Let them duke it out.

In my opinion it is great for the consumer, "Us". This is a big push for Apple to innovate and to develop better products in order to stay ahead of the competition. There is absolutely nothing to complain about.

Now, where is my 15" Macbook Air?

 

[fertilized-egg]

So no other company can make slim notebooks besides Apple?

Samsung of all people has shown it's possible to make a thin notebook that's distinct:

However most slim notebooks look like Macbooks because simply of the companies are afraid of failing and thus copy the successful design:

A good example is Dell. few years back, Dell made Adamo, which was actually a nice thin notebook that looked different from MacBooks.

Unfortunately it was a failure and Dell eventually discontinued the model and replaced with an Ultrabook that looked like...

In short, of course they are copying Apple's design cues and overall look&feel. There are plenty of other ways for the design but inevitably, successful design leaders get copied on their designs. However neither HP or Dell will admit anything nor do I expect them to.

 

[Dangerous Theory]

HP don't need to defend themselves here - that notebook is very dissimilar to the MBA, especially when compared to some other recent designs. The very general shape is similar, but then so are many cars, tvs, washing machines, fridges, etcetera. He is right in saying industry tends towards a certain point.

 

[Moonjumper]

Why in the world are fanboys so damn blind to what Apple does? Apple doesn't always find the solutions that haven't been used before (look no further than iOS notifications). And remember what Steve himself said: "Good artists copy; great artists steal."

You assume I am a fan boy because I said something that holds up to be true?

Apple have found new solutions on more than one occasion. Therefore they are good at it. That doesn't mean in any way that they are exclusively good at it, but it is a rare thing.

Some other companies never create any new solutions. Therefore the "others less so" also stands up.

 

[iHEARTcartoons]

HP has been copying Apple designs for a few years now and I'm very surprised Apple legal hasn't gotten on them (probably too busy with Samsung).

Here's another great example:

 

[cube]

Manufacturers always ruin ultrabooks with low resolution screens, or with soldered RAM or blade SSDs (like the MBA).

Now they ruined the sleekbook with a low resolution screen.

 

[JAT]

The only "innovative" design in the air has been the most despised one by air users, the most panned one by critics, and the one eventually discontinued: The Latch.

I wouldn't say that was exactly new, either. Phones and other devices have had covered ports for years.

What was new was the integrated-everything, combining a fast-enough processor with SSD-only options to make an ultra-light, but still fast enough to compete, laptop. And Intel more or less worked with Apple for that for the Ultrabook spec. The ultra-light laptop has been around since the 90s, but they were always woefully behind in speed and capability. THAT is what the MBA changed.

 

[tbrinkma]

SONY X505 had the keyboard and a wedge design before apple did

http://www.mavromatic.com/2004/05/sony-introduces-a-razor-thin-notebook-pc/

A better picture of that has been posted earlier in the thread. Something you'll notice though, is that there's no realistic way someone could inadvertently confuse the Sony X505 with the MacBook Air. Yes, they're both wedge-shaped. Yes, they both have 'chiclets' keyboards (at least by the modern-parlance version of the term, which has very little to do with the original meaning).

Strangely, despite being roughly the same class of machine (relative to their release times), they look *distinctly* different from one another. Heck, even if you got the Sony in silver (was it available that way)? you'd be able to easily distinguish it and the MBA *even while closed* (and even while ignoring their respective logos).

There's a difference between using similar design cues, and cribbing from someone else's design.
The X505 vs. the Air? Similar design cues, ended up with functionally similar, but visually distinct designs in the end. The HP we're discussing vs. the Air?
In contrast, it looks like HP started from the Air's design and then made some changes to account for material and construction differences. As a result, the HP design looks a *lot* like the Air. Not identical by any means, but not visually distinct either.

The worst part isn't that their design looks similar. It's that they're trying to pass off all those similarities as unavoidable coincidence, rather than simply admitting where they found their inspiration.

 

[Eidorian]

HP don't need to defend themselves here - that notebook is very dissimilar to the MBA, especially when compared to some other recent designs. The very general shape is similar, but then so are many cars, tvs, washing machines, fridges, etcetera. He is right in saying industry tends towards a certain point.

Not to mention the usage of AMD Trinity processors, discrete graphics options, and a mSATA + 2.5" bay.

 

[davie18]

and yet it still looks like crap.

Would you be drooling over it if it had an apple logo on it?

 

[na1577]

They don't look that similar. HP has had some really blatantly inspired products in the past, but this isn't one of them.

 

[tbrinkma]

Samsung of all people has shown it's possible to make a thin notebook that's distinct:

Image

However most slim notebooks look like Macbooks because simply of the companies are afraid of failing and thus copy the successful design:

A good example is Dell. few years back, Dell made Adamo, which was actually a nice thin notebook that looked different from MacBooks.

Image

Image

Unfortunately it was a failure and Dell eventually discontinued the model and replaced with an Ultrabook that looked like...

Image

In short, of course they are copying Apple's design cues and overall look&feel. There are plenty of other ways for the design but inevitably, successful design leaders get copied on their designs. However neither HP or Dell will admit anything nor do I expect them to.

Ok, I like the way the Samsung looks. It's got some style. Not sure if the design will 'age' well, but that's often tough to judge up front anyway. The Adamo's design was a bit 'clunky' with hard angles everywhere. Definitely an intentional design decision, and I think it looked OK, but all else being equal, I prefer rounded edges. (That's a personal preference though.)

The one that I find the most intriguing, though, is the second Dell design. Not a great picture, but based on the thinness of the keyboard, I'm guessing that most (if not all) of the important bits are in the thicker section below the display which serves as 'legs' to prop the keyboard up? That's an interesting design! From an engineering stand point, I'd imagine that hinge design becomes *extremely* important there.

Really disappointing to see Dell so thoroughly mimicking the Air with their newest design though. They've proven that they can design something functional and at least reasonably attractive, and then they blow their design credit by building a look-alike.

 

[Rogifan]

Would anyone look at the MB Air and think it's a Vaio?

Just because Apple copied the low profile laptop concept from Sony and made it popular doesn't it make it their "invention."

Where did I say invention?

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Kind of like how Jonathan Ive has quite a few products looking like more or less copies of Dieter Ram's products made for Braun several decades ago?

Or like how 007 James Bond is nothing but a british ripoff of the french books (and films) about the special agent OSS 117? (Being on the subject, I couldn't help myself )

OK it's well known Jonathan Ive is a fan of Dieter Rams design principles. Doesn't mean he's ripped of Braun stuff.

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HP could build an identical ultrabook if they want, with only the logo being different. I'm still buying the MBA for one reason, and honestly I think it is the one that makes the decision for most people as it should: the OS. You want OS X you pick which MBA, MBP, desktop. You want to run Windows, Ubuntu, whatever, you pick from a whole array of manufacturers and product lines. People aren't going to start buying HPs over MBAs because of the look, most people have already decided which OS they want to run. Likewise with tablets, people either want iOS ecosystem or they want Android or Windows. Samsung really isn't threatening iPad sales with their lineup.

I'm not so sure. I've talked to sales reps at Best Buy who said the reason customers want ultrabooks is because the look like MBA but run windows which they're more familiar with.

 

[ristlin]

Would you be drooling over it if it had an apple logo on it?

Would you be pissing your pants if you could afford one?

 

[deputy_doofy]

Cleo McDowell: Look... me and the McDonald's people got this little misunderstanding. See, they're McDonald's... I'm McDowell's. They got the Golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arcs. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. We both got two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds.

 

[theluggage]

Isn't the Air an extension of the ideas presented in the Netbook?

Not really - the first Air came out only shortly after the first "Netbook" - the Asus eeePC (the eee came out in Late 2007, the Air in early 2008) - which it failed to resemble in any significant way.

The original eee was tiny with a minute, cramped keyboard, assembled using cheap components such as an out-of-date Celeron processor and a screen that looked like an airline surplus seat-back TV, and ran a proprietary version of Linux with a very simple front-end and a limited range of packages (although if you weren't scared of the command line you could install Debian packages). Battery life was atrocious... BUT it worked and it cost peanuts.

The Air was nothing like the eee - it was big enough for a "proper" keyboard, ran full OS X and had the grunt to run full-size desktop apps, and was decidedly not cheap.

It was after the Air (but not, I think, connected) that the original eeePC concept withered and "Netbooks" morphed into small, entry-level Windows laptops.

Somebody mentioned the Sony 505 series - I had one of those for a while and it was really cramped to use c.f. the Air.

The Air's USP is that its gone for "slim" rather than "tiny in all dimensions" - perhaps realising that everybody carries a case big enough to take A4/Letter-sized documents so there's no point sacrificing screen or keyboard space to make a laptop any smaller than that, provided you make it really slim and light.

 

[Rogifan]

No they are not saying it's slightly different they are saying it's a LOT different if you factor in the form factor imposing that many similarities. Let me put it another way for you, because some people here simply refuse to read and understand:


In what way this laptop from hp in 2012
Image

is not the natural evolution of that laptop from hp from 2006, ie 6 years onward
Image

The silver plastic has changed to silver mangesium, the wedge is there only again in magnesium and without the optical, black keyboard, black screen, and similar hinge design. Anyone not able to see how this is a natural evolution in hp's design with nothing to do with apple whatsoever is as deluded and hoodwinked by apple as one can get. Congratulations for this.

Sorry I don't think a MBA looks like that 2006 HP laptop. Everyone seems to be getting hung up on the wedge shape but I've seen some ultrabooks without a wedge shape that look more like a MBA than this HP laptop does.

As far as I know Apple hasn't claimed they invented silver or wedge shaped laptops and they're not suing anyone (at present). But when you look at some of the Samsung and Dell laptops you see it is possible to make something slim and unique.

 

[spanading]

What style !

and yet it still looks like crap.

I could not agree more. If you try and make something like and Apple that isn't an Apple this goes to show it ends up looking cheap! Ohh USB 3.0, User changeable SSD, and non soldered RAM hmm, CPU drain?, space and big deal!

I know the world and his wife have now jumped on the Ultra Book bandwagon but really peps could you not do something a little different. True Apple does not 'own' the wedge shape and metal design but if they want me to believe they are not just being sheep they are going to have to come up with something a little more 'inspired' that a poor imitation of a macbook air, at least ASUS (I think) went for carbon fibre with a backlight on the keyboard to bring some class to the table. HP is a premier brand and should be making a better stab at an ultra book than this. Even if it is just so they don't get the 'Oh you made a MacBook air look-a-like too' comment. It really is time PC manufacturers realised Apple HAS changed the game, people now expect 'form' AND 'function'

 

[Elevon]

I personally really like the trackpad design, IMO good job HP

 

[fertilized-egg]

Really disappointing to see Dell so thoroughly mimicking the Air with their newest design though. They've proven that they can design something functional and at least reasonably attractive, and then they blow their design credit by building a look-alike.

Precisely. We laugh at the Chinese KIRF companies who make products that obviously copied famous brands in look&feel while equipping the device with different (and often inferior) software. Many of them are different enough that they aren't complete copies but similar enough that they give you the signal "I am something similar to an iPhone". What HP and Dell are doing is no different from those KIRF makers.

But then again, it's hard to blame the product planners who have seen their unique designs fail while MacBook Airs selling out at $1000+. It's just inevitable that a market leader gets copied heavily. This is why the latest Ultrabooks do not look like that Sony Vaio despite using the wedge shape but more like the MacBooks.

 

[e-coli]

And yet still hobbled by a nightmare OS. Oh well. Too bad for them.

 

[jrcolonial98]

At least it has windows. Who knows how horrible it would have been if it had os x? Wow. I shudder to even think about it.