Yeah, judging from this and the other replies, this topic is getting pretty dumb. Think it's time to bail to another thread.
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HP Defends New Ultrabook Design Against Noted Similarities to Apple's MacBook Air
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Yeah, judging from this and the other replies, this topic is getting pretty dumb. Think it's time to bail to another thread.
Fortunately, Microsoft ISN'T very good at copying Apple. So no matter how similar the hardware looks, once a potential customer boots it up, they'll know it isn't a Mac immediately. 
Fortunately, Microsoft ISN'T very good at copying Apple. So no matter how similar the hardware looks, once a potential customer boots it up, they'll know it isn't a Mac immediately.
Probably because there'll be a big splash screen that says "Launching Windows" after they turn it on.
Yup. Real dumb thread. Just had to come back to throw out some snark. Now I'm moving on.
Natural evolution? If it was, don't you think the Pavillion series would have continued down that path over the last 6 years? It has only done so now, because this is the style Apple employs and Apple is selling them like hotcakes. HP would be stupid not to try and take a piece of that pie with a clone of the Air.
By the way, here is a side view of that 2006 HP Pavillion laptop. Not much of a wedge design as you would like people to believe. More like a gentle swoop to make it easier to type. I think there was maybe 1/4" difference between back tofront? If they could have designed it as drastic as the Air, do you think they would have? I don't believe so now. Pre-1995 I think they would have. I think they got gunshy after that abortion of a laptop that had the membrane keyboard and 1 hour Li-Ion battery the 90's.
Ya, too bad it's HP. Every HP computer I've owned, and I've owned quite a few, has been a complete piece of crap. I've still got 2 HP laptops in the house that some of the family use, and they are total junk. Slow, noisy, randomly shutting down, etc... Not to mention all of the bloatware and other junk that is preloaded on them. I wouldn't touch an HP computer with a ten foot pole.
Not that I have an opinion.
Tweaking, as of Windows 7 is not much of an issue on Windows. But I have seen more issues than OS X still, just not a significant amount anymore. BSODs had those too recently on Win7, but again not a significant amount of that either (was a driver issue). I've had kernel panics on OS X for the same reason.
But you named some of the reasons yourself, the UI and UI kit is far better and so is the API and dev tools, which results in generally far better third party software for the Mac. The UI also just makes using the machine more pleasant, quicker to get around on and the fact that the whole thing just works... always. You don't need constant updates, to install a ton of third party add ons etc to get things done. The Mac is designed to get things done without wasting your time. The whole OS is just more stable in the sense that its more predictable and less flaky... you don't get weird things happening like you do on Windows... there just seems to be much more room for things going wrong on Windows. And the security model on OS X is still superior, and improving further. The built in networking tools, networking services, unix, etc are just the icing on the cake. Its an OS that seems made for the Internet in the sense that it has these things I need every day built in. On Windows, somehow everything is... half-assed in terms of networking and services. I can go on forever probably. There are endless reasons and I think the short form of what I said makes more sense than listing every reason. Like I said, I have and use both and am a developer too. Anyone that uses a Mac knows why Macs are better and more productive. They just are, at pretty much everything.
I always loved the ultrabooks designed from HP, Dell, Sony, Acer, Samsung, Toshbia, (non-Apple), etc.
The deterrent for me was not the notebook itself, but the AC-power design. I've always used my old Sony TZ as an example.
the 10.1" form factor was awesomely portable and light weight. Was even lighter than the first macbook airs. However, the ironny is what I hate about it is carrying it around with the AC adapter. The AC adapter design was horrible for transport!
In the case of the TZ, it was designed in such a way that made it way inferior to Apple's macsafe brick, which not only could conveniently be plugged and unplugged that avoids accidental damage, but was designed that the cords could be wrapp tied neatly for transport storage.
The TZ's ac adapter on the other hand felt loose, and was inconvently to always try to do cord management to fold the cables, or wrap the cables, and try to pack away in my laptop bag without scratching the TZ, etc.
Fast-forward to 2012, I was at the Microsoft Store looking at these new ultrabooks which looks very sexy, then I looked behind it and saw the same old ugly power AC brick... most are 1/3 the size of the ultrabook and still inconvenient to pack away in your laptop bag.
I wish these vendors spend some thing to think of what ultraportable means, as well as what it means to carry the AC adapter around with it.
The deterrent for me was not the notebook itself, but the AC-power design. I've always used my old Sony TZ as an example.
the 10.1" form factor was awesomely portable and light weight. Was even lighter than the first macbook airs. However, the ironny is what I hate about it is carrying it around with the AC adapter. The AC adapter design was horrible for transport!
In the case of the TZ, it was designed in such a way that made it way inferior to Apple's macsafe brick, which not only could conveniently be plugged and unplugged that avoids accidental damage, but was designed that the cords could be wrapp tied neatly for transport storage.
The TZ's ac adapter on the other hand felt loose, and was inconvently to always try to do cord management to fold the cables, or wrap the cables, and try to pack away in my laptop bag without scratching the TZ, etc.
Fast-forward to 2012, I was at the Microsoft Store looking at these new ultrabooks which looks very sexy, then I looked behind it and saw the same old ugly power AC brick... most are 1/3 the size of the ultrabook and still inconvenient to pack away in your laptop bag.
I wish these vendors spend some thing to think of what ultraportable means, as well as what it means to carry the AC adapter around with it.
Look up "design patent"...
I don't think HP was berated by the reporter in the original article... the reporter did point out the obvious though. HP did try copy what made the MBA popular. Sure there are differences, but as the post with the Sony Vaio illustrates, there are designs that have similar form and function to the MBA that look nothing like it... HP did not achieve that, if they were trying to.
I would NOT trust any company who just CAN'T count to 8.
Windows...
1
2
3
NT (1993)
95
98
ME
2000
Vista
7
8
It is so frustrating that nobody has brought a design that surpasses MacBook Pro or Air in terms of simplicity for last 4 years. I mean, they are still trying to copy it, and they can't copy it simple enough.
Really pathetic of Samsung, Dell, HP not to bring anything simpler than MacBook Pro/Air. It is the reason we are paying too much for Apple stuff... if these competitors can get their acts together and make something that looks nicer than MacBooks it will force Apple to make their Macs cheaper, and also to improve their specs and design.
We are stuck with same design that is 4 years old... For goodness sake, it is a mystery nobody else can't design something simpler than MacBook Pro/Air.
Really pathetic of Samsung, Dell, HP not to bring anything simpler than MacBook Pro/Air. It is the reason we are paying too much for Apple stuff... if these competitors can get their acts together and make something that looks nicer than MacBooks it will force Apple to make their Macs cheaper, and also to improve their specs and design.
We are stuck with same design that is 4 years old... For goodness sake, it is a mystery nobody else can't design something simpler than MacBook Pro/Air.
One thing that's made a huge difference in productivity for me is: Labels. They've been around since Mac OS 7, or maybe even longer. Incredibly simple, incredibly powerful. Particularly when an entire team is accessing the same files on a server, or similar. Red Label = problems. Green Label = done. Grey Label = backed up. Blue Label = brainstorming,.......
Labels on a PC? Sure, possible. But when I last HAD to use windows at work (Windows XP), it wasn't a natural part of the system & only available as a 3rd party add-on.
Fortunately, Microsoft ISN'T very good at copying Apple. So no matter how similar the hardware looks, once a potential customer boots it up, they'll know it isn't a Mac immediately.
Microsoft has nothing to do with HP's new laptop. Microsoft is primarily a software company. Personally I think for those who're looking for a PC laptop will find this new HP unit quite nice. With Vista officially out of the way, Windows 7 should be a very good experience.
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These companies should just admit they were inspired by Apple and in that inspiration they couldn't find solutions that imitated what they were inspired by.
Take a look at the trackpad size for example. HP, ASUS, Toshiba etc. have had years to come up with a large trackpad first, and do it right. Nowadays almost every damn laptop has the same large trackpad apple has, adding some buttons to make it look different.
Take a look at the trackpad size for example. HP, ASUS, Toshiba etc. have had years to come up with a large trackpad first, and do it right. Nowadays almost every damn laptop has the same large trackpad apple has, adding some buttons to make it look different.
Why should they? Did Apple admit that they weren't the first ones to produce a laptop computer way back when? Did they admit to how moving to an Intel platform has done more for their company than being with PowerPC? Did Apple admit that they can't come up with their own OS without blatantly copying Unix?
I am sorry, this is not what I said, not everything has to be about apple. Apple doesn't even figure here; I said that this from 2006
clearly shows a lineage and direct ancestry to evolve into that:
The silver plastic has changed to silver mangesium, the wedge is there only again in magnesium and without the optical, black keyboard, black screen, and similar hinge design.
You guys can have it as you like it of course, you are getting, we are getting ripped by apple anyway with their prices, some of you like to hold on to the illusion that you are always getting something that is so great everyone copies it. Fine by me, it's understandable how paying a premium would make one want to rationalize this thus, but if something is just an illusion it should be pointed out.
Excuse me but wasn't the first air a failure in its latch design, panned by critics, hated by users and eventually discontinued? How come you are not noticing this? How come you are not noticing that apple discontinued their own design and took cues from others instead?
Natural evolution? If it was, don't you think the Pavillion series would have continued down that path over the last 6 years? It has only done so now, because this is the style Apple employs and Apple is selling them like hotcakes. HP would be stupid not to try and take a piece of that pie with a clone of the Air.
By the way, here is a side view of that 2006 HP Pavillion laptop. Not much of a wedge design as you would like people to believe. More like a gentle swoop to make it easier to type. I think there was maybe 1/4" difference between back tofront? If they could have designed it as drastic as the Air, do you think they would have? I don't believe so now. Pre-1995 I think they would have. I think they got gunshy after that abortion of a laptop that had the membrane keyboard and 1 hour Li-Ion battery the 90's.
Sorry, and in no way do I mean to personally offend you, I don't know you, and I mean that 100%, but you guys all need to see a shrink and tell them you have delusions with apple. Don't worry, you are not the first, others have been through that stage, I for once, because that's the way apple market, akin to a cult. Because if you look at this design from 6 years ago, considering the bulk of a machine 6 years ago (think powerbook) and you tell me it's not a wedge, it's more of "gentle swoop", they you are, I am afraid to say delusional. It's as wedge as a wedge can be at this thickness. If you can't see sony's low profile wedge from 4 years ago and if you can't compare both to how the air originally looked, that is an all around tapered design with a latch, and figure out who is copying who you are also in some trouble there.
Apple aggressively pushed a thin design to the market with the air, as per usual they wanted to do something first so they could take credit for the way an industry was headed. Enter the air, and enter the tons of problems and compromises of the first gen with the unfit for purpose shrunk intel cpu and the poor latch design latter discontinued. Apple is commendable of course for trying something this advanced in terms of thickness out, but they are not commendable at all for appropriating a trend that wasn't of their own invention, but of their own appropriation. Sony was making very thin designs before them, and ultraportables where selling very well before them too.
They did shave off a millimeter or two, and claimed the thinest, but their aggressive marketing push for thinest meant for cpu problems, an unfit hinge design and an unfit overall design changed to a wedge by taking cues from others.
It's as ironic as can be that apple changing their original design to do what others had done is ALSO appropriated by apple as something they created. We are bordering on lunacy here with the marketing effect apple can have. If they make a tablet form factor mainstream with the ipad it's theirs and others are copycats (fair enough). If they follow others (sony's) trend and make an ultra thin notebook but mess up the design with a poorly designed latched one, and subsequently copy others with a wedge design type it's ALSO theirs. The marketing strength of this company is mind boggling.
Case in point, this post:
Yeap, apple was inspired by sony's and others ultrathins, and made one too, they couldn't find a solution that was funtional without imitating others so after having failed at a tapered design with a latch, they copied sony's wedge in the second iteration of the product.
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I would NOT trust any company who just CAN'T count to 8.
Windows...
1
2
3
NT (1993)
95
98
ME
2000
Vista
7
8
You forgot XP !!
And what about a company that can't count to 3?
Ipad
Ipad 2
New Ipad
Ipad 2
New Ipad
Or can't count to 2?
Iphone
Iphone 3G
Iphone 3G
Anyway, your criticism of Windows also misses the fact that you describe three completely different operating systems. You have the "windows as an application running on top of DOS", the "windows as a native 32-bit environment but without full multi-tasking protections" (Win9x), and "Windows as a modern protected mode multi-processing and multi-user system" (WinNT).
You forgot XP !!
And what about a company that can't count to 3?
Ipad
Ipad 2
New Ipad
Or can't count to 2?
Iphone
Iphone 3G
Anyway, your criticism of Windows also misses the fact that you describe three completely different operating systems. You have the "windows as an application running on top of DOS", the "windows as a native 32-bit environment but without full multi-tasking protections" (Win9x), and "Windows as a modern protected mode multi-processing and multi-user system" (WinNT).
Great points as always. Just had to ask, isn't the iPhone 3G called the iPhone 3G because it was the first iPhone to include 3G connectivity? Or were you just noting how it wasn't called the iPhone 2? Or something?
Exactly - the post I replied to was knocking Microsoft because major Windows versions have not been monotonically increasing integer numbers - so pointing out that Apple does the same thing was the point.
The OP also forgot XP, and didn't note that the "gestalt" for "Windows 7" is officially "Windows 6.1".
Marketing names and engineering codenames/versions are often out of sync - no big deal. I was a senior engineer on a paradigm-shifting operating system release in the early '80s. In the couple of months between the final release candidate and the final release marketing changed the name of the product.
Did we rename the subsystems to match the marketing name, and change all of the status and error messages to match the marketing names?
IE.NFW
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I didn't check out HP's design, but it shows an issue that has come up before. These guys always assume Apple as the point of reference without any doubt. If something looks like a Mac, iphone, or ipad from any given angle, we'll see an article on how it's a ripoff design. I find it irritating too, especially as it doesn't tell you anything about the device when in use, and of course if it lacks an Apple badge, that is assumed to be bad
/endrant. Hehe..
I would NOT trust any company who just CAN'T count to 8.
Windows...
1
2
3
NT (1993)
95
98
ME
2000
Vista
7
8
Depends how they were counting as well.
Could easily of been
1
2
3
95
XP
Vista
7
8
Reason for the jump was how things were done. NT and 2000 left out because they were pure business and never meant for the general consumers.
ME was crap and the shortest live operating system ever and like 98 was just an added on to the 9.x line.
I didn't check out HP's design, but it shows an issue that has come up before. These guys always assume Apple as the point of reference without any doubt. If something looks like a Mac, iphone, or ipad from any given angle, we'll see an article on how it's a ripoff design. I find it irritating too, especially as it doesn't tell you anything about the device when in use, and of course if it lacks an Apple badge, that is assumed to be bad
The problem is of course that Apple is not always the source. Apple sometimes is just as inspired by other people's design.
Anyway, that's how innovation occurs. Standing on the shoulders of giants and all. Apple make great products because they build on and perfect existing designs, learning from the mistakes of others.
Another good analysis - which tries to make sense of things that seldom make sense (in other words - engineering names and marketing names).
I can't quite fit NT3.1, NT3.5, NT3.51 and NT4 into this explanation, though. Unless you want to say that the enormous installed base of business Windows systems doesn't count.
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