HP Looking to Undercut iPad Pricing With 3G-Capable Slate Device

[Friscohoya]

I might suggest that 75+ million iPhone/iPod Touch buyers bought those devices in spite of a (lack of) Flash weakness. For example, perhaps the iPhone buyers were attracted to- say- the phone functionality?

A ton of people buy products that turn out to be bad for them, even killing some of them, so slinging numbers of buyers around to support the idea that the market has spoken about one individual feature is not exactly making the point.

There weren't (was it) 7 million attempts to do something via Flash on iPhones/Touches in the month of December- all of which FAILED by Apple's arbitrary choice- because these people are uninterested in Flash functionality. They just have a device that CAN'T meet that want, only because Apple chooses to not allow that want to be met.

My argument on this particular thing is wouldn't it be better to let us buyers of Apple devices decide if we want to burn our batteries a little faster by installing and using the Flash player, rather than Apple making such decisions for us? And what keeps coming back is arguments against Flash itself, or how analogies that paint Apple in a negative light make no sense, but similar analogies that paint them in positive light make perfect sense, and so on.

Are we happy to hand such decisions to Apple? For example, if tomorrow Apple decided that only iTunes PURCHASED content could play on all iTunes devices (phone, iPods, iPad), would some of you be arguing how great it is that we'll know that each file is properly formatted, ripped at a high quality, and so on?

Unlike the iPhone (which has the draw of a great phone plus many other features), this iPad is supposed to deliver the "ultimate internet experience" and is mostly about consuming downloaded content. Minus Flash- which won't be replaced even in many years by HTML5 + H.264 + Javascript, it can't possibly fulfill the "ultimate" in that description. Sure, it appears that it will be a very nice device. But there is an awful lot of websites and applications that use Flash in some way (and not just as video, and not just for ads). All that is not going to work for buyers of this device.

I love Apple, and I'd love to be a buyer of this iPad. But let's face it- it is lacking some fundamentally-popular features that will be even more in-your-face obvious to buyers who are NOT buying it to be their new cell phone+. I really want to buy this kind of device myself... but await version 2+ because this version lacks just a few "mainstream" features that should be there in version 1.

In this particular (flash) example, I hope these other guys like HP roll out some "wow" competitors that makes Apple feel some pressure to back off of this arbitrary stance. A world in which Apple dominates the space is one in which they could make 20 similarly limiting decisions for their customers. Woo hoo! It appears there are some here who could hardly wait... and then devise some way to support those decisions even at the expense of their own overall experience.

I hear what you are saying. My point is that there are plenty of tablet computers out there that do different things. The product category is in its infancy and the baseline hardware/software requirements are not yet known. A lack of flash has impacted me maybe once or twice on my iphone which was also billed as the best mobile browsing experience. Maybe lots of people use flash and depend on it. I dont. Havent missed it. Maybe Adobe will address the supposed bugginess like they said the other day and this will be come a non-issue. Or maybe its a business decision so that people dont use hlu and instead buy on itunes.

If flash becomes the impediment to this devices success, however, you can bet that flash will be included a subsequent revision.

 

[Friscohoya]

I love the way everyone dwells on the technical details. While the iPad may not have all the hardware parts that some want now, it will eventually, and as long as enough people find what is in the first release OK, Apple will make their numbers. While HP and others are pushing their hardware guys to try to come up with something similar, Steve Jobs has moved past the hardware phase and is in New York signing deals with the publishing industry to get content. Locking these guys in is the bigger picture and I have to believe that the primary purpose of the iPad launch was a crowbar to get the publishers to negotiate. The first wave of customers Apple is targeting is not those whose who can spot another chunk of hardware that is better but those that know they will look cool sitting on a couch at Starbucks reading the NYTimes. I feel sorry for HP and others who will have to make their profit on the hardware alone while Apple will be generating a steady revenue stream from their iTunes/iApps/iBooks/iMagazine store (or whatever they choose to call it).

Amen!

 

[rtdunham]

LOL! I'm in the Hater camp when if comes to the iTampon...

that's so seventh grade. I've got two daughters and was married: I find your remark offensive and they would too. you remind me of the Python skit where the guy throws out a bunch of innuendoes and ends up enviously saying, in effect, "you're a man of the world, you've done it, right?" Grow up.

If you do, the rest of your comment would be read more closely and considered. I suspect you're more interested in having your ideas weighed and respected than in proving some kind of middle-school-playground cred. So take this tip for free: Give us your serious thoughts. I'll listen.

peace
td

 

[mavfan11]

hackinpads!

now all the haters can go enjoy their full OS, webcam, multitasking flash players in peace.

Peace? No. they'll find a way to turn HP's slate into a HackinPad running full Snow Leopard!

 

[xIGmanIx]

i liked some one's idea of putting windows phone series 7 on a portable PC device. That would be something interesting to see. For me, none of this market appeals as i would rather have a rock star portable computer running a full version of an OS. If the touch version of W7 is anything as functional as the desktop version, it would be a good match no matter who the hardware maker is.

 

[VoR]

I love the way everyone dwells on the technical details. While the iPad may not have all the hardware parts that some want now, it will eventually, and as long as enough people find what is in the first release OK, Apple will make their numbers.

I feel sorry for HP and others who will have to make their profit on the hardware alone while Apple will be generating a steady revenue stream from their iTunes/iApps/iBooks/iMagazine store (or whatever they choose to call it).

Why do you feel sorry for HP?
Who cares who makes these devices, who's 'first in the door', who makes the most money/sales etc.

I want to buy things that work for me. I think the ipad with it's OS, the app store and the lack of flash will make it a pretty useless and limited gimmick. I feel the same way about a fair few apple products, I'm a 'tech enthusiast', can handle a UI that isn't completely designed for the computer illiterate and want things to work for me. I think it'll sell pretty well (who markets their products as well as apple?) and people will swear by it - but I'm me, and I couldn't care less about sales figures. I like to judge a product myself, not on what other people say.
mismatched babble post

 

[LagunaSol]

that's so seventh grade. I've got two daughters and was married: I find your remark offensive and they would too. you remind me of the Python skit where the guy throws out a bunch of innuendoes and ends up enviously saying, in effect, "you're a man of the world, you've done it, right?" Grow up.

If you do, the rest of your comment would be read more closely and considered. I suspect you're more interested in having your ideas weighed and respected than in proving some kind of middle-school-playground cred. So take this tip for free: Give us your serious thoughts. I'll listen.

peace
td

Thank you. Any more "commenters" with idiotic, juvenile references to tampons or menstruation are going straight to my Ignore list (much to Eidorian's dismay). I suggest everyone interested in rational discourse on this site do the same. This isn't Xbox Live.

Time to clean this town up.

 

[bloodycape]

Peace? No. they'll find a way to turn HP's slate into a HackinPad running full Snow Leopard!

If its running the Atom with the older GMA950 gpu then yes, but I don't think there is any Apple drivers for the GMA3150 that the new Pinetrail Atom netbooks use. If consumers are really luck this could have an Ion2(I think its an nvidia GT310m based gpu), which is a switchable to the gma3150 gpu.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Yeah, the trolls run unfettered while those who clash with them are reprimanded.

Actually, that may not be a fair statement. The most obvious trolls end up on my Ignore list, and many of them are no longer posting at all. So either they finally got bored and went back to Xbox Live, or the mods booted them.

Hopefully the latter.

The trolls go both ways. I see a lot of the Apple trolls get away with a lot of crap. You have some Apple troll here who post crap about MS for pure flame bait and no other reason.

I find on this site who many call MS trolls or *blank* Trolls being just people who do not worship at the alter of Apple and proclaim SJ as their god.

 

[Mac-Mariachi]

Boy do I wish

That when the iPad is finally available in march Apple´s homepage has something like "Oh, and one more thing... iPad has a front facing camera for video conferencing"

 

[Minimoose 360]

What are you, 12?

Ahem, I'm 19 thank you!



Just doing some trolling...although I really don't like the iPad. I guess it has it's audience. I'll stick with my MBP and iPhone.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

That when the iPad is finally available in march Apple´s homepage has something like "Oh, and one more thing... iPad has a front facing camera for video conferencing"

To me, that's the ONE hardware thing that is most painfully missing from this thing. Flash can always be added in software if Apple would get out of its own way (supporting BUYERS who want this iPad and want at least the option to see Flash content on it).

But that missing isight camera is a killer for a mobile device that some argue could suffice vs. carrying along the laptop (too). So I hope you're right.

 

[Bytor65]

Back to the bottom line so far on the HP slate:

Wait, there is no bottom line.

There are no specs at all. This empty comparison vs 3g also brings into question whether this is because of forced data plan subsidy. You can get a iPhone "cheaper" than iPod touch too, just that sticky little detail of being locked into paying a data carrier.

This is nothing but empty trash talk at this point with no detail at all. Wake me when they actually reveal anything.

This may raise the bar for windows tablets, but until there is something actually revealed there is no way we can assess that.

 

[Rot'nApple]

A tablet aren't what I would call a new form factor for Windows.

But a successful tablet would be...

 

[Journojulz]

I want to buy things that work for me. I think the ipad with it's OS, the app store and the lack of flash will make it a pretty useless and limited gimmick. I feel the same way about a fair few apple products, I'm a 'tech enthusiast',

The iPad isn't designed with you in mind

To call it a "pretty useless and limited gimmick" seems to be missing the point.

Got my mum a macbook the other month - and apart from the camera which inevitable and the flash which is mostly junk, there really isn't a great deal that she would need anything the macbook does that the iPad will do.

In 5 years every campus will have more tablets than laptops, and hopefully some of them will actually work.

 

[SandynJosh]

Umm... Sure the Courier video was awesome... BUT THERE IS NO DEVICE ANNOUNCED THAT SUPPORTS THAT!!!! It is just a mock-up of... Something.

I agree... I'm still amused about all the things "Longhorn" was going to do. Microsoft was the reason "vaporware" entered our vocabulary.

 

[CactusHawk]

Thanks for the history lesson as you know it. I offered a Ford example to illustrate that Ford was not always right BECAUSE the original poster to which I responded with this offered the "faster horses" FORD quote. Is his Ford quote example also "funky"?

And more to the point, do you slice this out to argue that it makes perfect sense for Apple to make such decisions for its buyers, rather than let buyers make such decisions for themselves... especially when (again using the example of a Flash plugin) such an option would add NO financial cost to Apple to allow, nor any financial cost to iPad buyers to receive? Ford could have lessened its costs and price by arbitrarily deciding to leave the tires off the cars or leaving out a piece of the motor too.

Or are you just picking on ONE Ford quote that might cast similar decision-making by Apple in a negative light, but not another Ford quote that was used to favorably support Apple limiting the choices of its product buyers by forcing arbitrary Apple decisions upon their buyers?

Flash who cares about flash?
I want more memory...oh nope thas not it...
I want 3g for the same price as the WiFi..er...
I mean I want a front (scratch that) rear facing camera...
Actually the most imortant thing for me is a 16:9 aspect ratio

Oh never mind...

 

[LagunaSol]

I find on this site who many call MS trolls or *blank* Trolls being just people who do not worship at the alter of Apple and proclaim SJ as their god.

Uh huh.

Actually the most imortant thing for me is a 16:9 aspect ratio

Here's a mobile phone with a 16:9 screen:

You really want a tablet shaped like that? Really???

 

[a.gomez]

nice, not sure what they talking about - not trading a full featured OS and actual software and options on browsers for a cell phone OS and some crap Apps... I for one can not wait to see this, maybe it will force Apple to stop with the Flash crap and make a tablet that is actually a computer and not a toy.

 

[SandynJosh]

I also think that over time (as the iPad and the OS matures) there will likely be less differences between it's OS and a "full OS". However, the good thing is that this OS will have matured with the new multitouch world in mind instead of trying to take something backwards like Windows and throw some clunky UI on top of it to make it "touch friendly". Apple is right to pursue it this way instead.

The current designs of "real" computer OSes got totally out of hand many years ago. Now that power consumption/battery life/portability weight are the new hurdles for a device, it makes more sense to have an OS that lives lightly on a portable device than one that acts like a 25 year old OS.

Businesses, as well as consumers, are willing to move with advancements in technologies and leave old file formats behind if it improves operating efficiencies enough. As an example, within the last five years I've seen the .doc format as the preferred file exchange format change largely to .pdf format. What "works better" is trumping backward compatibility because efficiency of one's workforce has become more important and portable devices are seen to be the doorway to that end.

 

[nevermind50]

No Flash.

There weren't (was it) 7 million attempts to do something via Flash on iPhones/Touches in the month of December- all of which FAILED by Apple's arbitrary choice- because these people are uninterested in Flash functionality. They just have a device that CAN'T meet that want, only because Apple chooses to not allow that want to be met.

You see, this is not Apples problem...

If these people are naive enough to request a flash plugin for their iPhone, then they probably just thought the interwebs were broken This problem is firmly in the province of the content providers. Many sites recognise this by offering content via HTML for iPhone users as an alternative to Flash... or put their content on the App store. This is as it should be.

Apples choice not to offer Flash is far from "arbitrary", rather it's "strategic" in that they want 100% control of the user experience on their OS. Not for the sake of it mind you, but so they aren't reliant on others (Adobe in this case).

 

[Runthefour]

Nvidia and Android

Let's forget about flash for a while and look at some ingredients you need to make a tablet:

For the processor there are following choices:
- Texas OMAP4, production in second half 2010
- Nvidia Tegra 2, available
- Qualcomm Snapdragon QSD8672, available, products available second half 2010, no IGP
- Intel Atom N280, available, no HD hardware
- Intel Moorestown, somewhere 2010
These guys should have about the same performance (except the moorestown, dunno anything about that), but the N280 has at least twice the power draw.

This gives us two conclusions:
- There is no reason to use Atom (Windows 7 is not suited for fingers)
- It's either Tegra 2 or waiting

For the OS, the possible contenders are:
- Windows 7 phone series (not yet available and build for phones with a specific feature set)
- Android (has been shown to be scalable and is customizable)
- Chrome OS (not yet available)
- something you made yourself starting from linux and ending with a great performance/watt developer environment

If you want a tablet now, you'll be loading android
Apples uses an IPS screen for the iPad, this is the best place to undercut Apple in price. If HP wants to go after the iPad and undercut price, they'll be using a Nvidia Tegra 2 and running Android. The same applies to every other manufacturer. In the second half of this year, more diversity will be possible.

IMHO, people don't realize that the tablet market with an intuitive UI is unclaimed ground. The way Apple sees it, the tablet is a device to consume media, not a producing device (the current PC is both). By dropping one part, they could re-imagine the other part. There is no need to run a 'familiar' OS, nor offer 'familiar' features. If a company with hardware/software expertise really wanted to, they could build their own 'experience'. There is a place in the market for a tablet that works fast and intuitive, looks nice and is easy to develop for.

IMHO the fastest way to catch up to Apple and make the best integration of hardware and software would be take get a minimal webkit running, make your platform html5 and friends with a nice API to access the hardware. The easy way to accomplish this, is to buy Palm. You'll get WebOS and their expertise. Remember it was Palm in the first place to take Apples Newton and make it a hit.

If Adobe ever gets flash running a fast speed on ARM, Air might be a fine runtime aswell.

 

[M.Fantastique]

Any competitor to the iPad will have quite a few things to catch up on. As noted, there aren't any other OS's that have been designed from the ground up around a touch-based interface.

An operating system consists of many parts, the GUI is only a small component. The iphone OS is a modified os x. The same could be done with windows or linux. Take the system, provide an interface appropriate for touch-based devices, provide touch enabled libraries for 3rd party apps, and restrict the installation of applications so that apps not using those libraries can be forbidden. So: No, this part does not require much catching up. As for the itunes-integration, personally, I'd prefer a less "integrated" (aka restricted) device.
The app-store is a different story, although it's hard to understand why apple's competitors don't get the concept and do something similar that works.

 

[Journojulz]

So: No, this part does not require much catching up.

there is a bit of a difference between making something "work" and making something "work well".

The iphone os is 3 years old, and yet there is still nothing that is clearly better.

I could make a car in my garage that was faster than a ferrari for a fraction of the cash.
But to make one that was actually better would cost more than the real thing.

 

[bloodycape]

Let's forget about flash for a while and look at some ingredients you need to make a tablet:

For the processor there are following choices:
- Texas OMAP4, production in second half 2010
- Nvidia Tegra 2, available
- Qualcomm Snapdragon QSD8672, available, products available second half 2010, no IGP
- Intel Atom N280, available, no HD hardware
- Intel Moorestown, somewhere 2010
These guys should have about the same performance (except the moorestown, dunno anything about that), but the N280 has at least twice the power draw.

You forgot to list the new Pinetrail Atom cpu which have a slight better gma3150 gpu and suppose to better on battery life. Not to mention the dual core model is a true dual core unlike the N330 atom, which mean less power usage also.

You also forgot to mention the few Chinese and Korean MID device running Ubuntu MID edition.