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HP to Spin Off PC Business as Sales Stagnate
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Yeah, I totally overlooked their systems monitoring and OS stuff. I was thinking along the lines of Application Servers (WebSphere, WebLogic, Information Server), Relational Database servers (Oracle, DB2, SQL Server), development tools (Visual Studio, IBM Rational software, collaboration offerings (e.g.: MS Outlook, Exchange, MS Office, IBM Lotus offerings), and information analytics type of stuff.
I sort of took the systems sides for granted and completely overlooked that. Clearly MS and IBM Tivoli both compete in that space, though Oracle does not.
It looks like this acquisition will get HP into the "information analytics" area which is quite big right now as well. From back in the day, I remember HP having some of the best distributed computing offerings. I think KnightWRX also pointed out a bunch of their enterprise software offerings.
In response to your response and the response from KnightWRX, I have added the following to my original post:
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Titles can easily be bought, changed, or simply made up, and they often enough are. Jobs was never technically trained, regardless of titles handed out. Winni had it right - Jobs was always the marketing, business, and sometimes idea man, not in the details of 'making it work.' That doesn't mean he didn't help solder together original pcbs for the Apple I or II, but he's not an EE nor other engineering discipline by training - he dropped out of college early on, but retained an interest in technology put to use when he and Woz started up Apple. I'm sure some people want to rewrite history, and Apple has tried on occasion or two themselves - this doesn't belittle Jobs in calling out facts, and one can argue all they'd like over if Jobs coming back to Apple when they purchased NeXT was what saved Apple (I tend to believe so myself), but it doesn't turn him into an engineer, either.
A title does not an engineer make.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14587426
I'm glad to hear that HP is keeping their printer business. The printer that came with my iMac is an HP and it's been excellent. Robust, good quality and is still working fine. I've used Canon, Lexmark, Epson etc. before and none lasted this long. I really like HP's paper tray design (where paper is sucked in from the front and spits out in the front as well -- unlike other brands).
And before I switched to a Mac I had an HP. Didn't really quite like it but I think that's down to the operating system that kept crashing. Nevertheless, I hope they've made the right decision in exiting the PC business. Keen to find out who they sold it to.
+1
I believe Apple's customer service is also part of it, as well as halo effect and the growing consensus among the buying public that being locked into Windows is no longer a necessity (ex. the Web is mainly platform agnostic).
Yeah, you're right - they don't have much in the way of some of those - Websphere or other App servers, IDEs, or DBs, but there's a bigger story when you look at the rest of the offerings. They have a LOT of datacenter automation tools, as well as typical equivalents for other IBM offerings:
Rational -> Loadrunner, winrunner, ALM, etc.
Tivoli - too many to count. Openview and many others on monitoring and management.
Networking - 3Com acquisition, plus several network monitoring and management apps.
Some of them are pretty confusing and have some overlap, but things like Service Manager have pretty heavy adoption for change management/ITIL, and overall, there's mostly an equivalent to the various IBM offerings. When IBM sold off their PC/laptop division, it seemed their plan was to focus on the bigger 'solutions,' meaning for enterprise customers, deliver hardware for the datacenters with a complete software stack - I'm guessing this is where HP is trying to head, or has been, and this is just the next step.
IBM really embraced open source, while I don't think HP has had that same level of adoption. In IBMs case, I wholly applaud eclipse and various apache contributions, but I never could figure out why they wanted to keep DB2 alive; like both AIX and HPUX, it's been an also-ran for some time now. I guess there may be some customers that would disagree, but I've yet to work anywhere we were kicking off a project and DB2 (or AIX, or HPUX) was the first choice, or even a primary consideration. WebSphere if course, is the opposite.
It will be interesting to see where this one goes. I've preferred both IBM and HP servers in datacenters, although Dell's have typically been cheaper. Both companies have some good enterprise software, and some possibly not so good, as well as a lot I've never seen or used first-hand. AIX and HPUX have been on life support (barely) forever. I don't really see webOS as something for the 'enterprise' at all; it's not like it will somehow 'combine' with HP 'OS development' somehow.
IBM made some great consumer and business laptops, HP - not so much. They had equivalent lineups, and some good machines in there, but at least I don't recall a single series I'd recommend blindly (like with ThinkPads), more hit and miss. The minis are pretty neat, though.
It looks like so far, printers stay - makes me wonder about their cameras? I guess they also make other 'random stuff' like USB sticks and such, although I've never looked for one.
Here's their list of consumer stuff:
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/home.do
Cameras, picture frames, some software, laptops, displays, printers, consumer storage devices, keyboards.
Even with fair familiarity of their offerings, I can't figure this one out:
http://www.telecomlead.com/inner-page-details.php?id=2491&block= Personal systems group - PCs, mobile devices and workstations
Imaging and Printing - Printers and I guess cameras, ink, supplies
Enterprise Business - storage, servers, networking, software
Unless I'm missing something in there, Imaging and Printing has a lot of overlap with personal systems, so if they spin off PS, do they hand off 'consumer printing' as well? It makes sense, for example, to offer a discount on printers or cameras, USB or external storage when someone buys a laptop, especially when the same company owns/produces/sells all of them.
Similarly, it also makes sense when someone is looking at building a datacenter or office to sell servers, along with networking, printing, software stacks, so I'd guess all 'consumer stuff' goes along with PS, even if that doesn't seem to be the case today.
No clue at all how webOS could remain if the intent is really to drive focus on enterprise and business customers, unless it's a licensing only, or maybe licensing = customization/services model. Maybe they can make this work, but of course, the question is - will they? Android is pretty tough to beat with free, iOS is pretty entrenched as #1 for individual devices, and #2 by OS (through sheer numbers of Android devices), so what's the compelling reason to use webOS over Android? Seems like a decent OS, but no apps, and likely licensing fees > Android. With all of the patent issues going on surrounding Google/Android, maybe that's a path forward - if Google/Android winds up having to pay licensing fees, HP may be able to offer webOS at 'almost free'?
Yep, really confusing all around. It will be interesting to see how this falls out - I do hope that webOS isn't entirely dead, I'm just not sure where it fits in well with enterprise software.
HP, the other "Big Blue"
If you are over 30, you probably remember the name given to IBM was "Big Blue" ... heck you probably even recall when some called them International Business Machines as well.
Anyhow, ... after Compaq made a run for selling "IBM compatible PCs" they would later merge with HP. Just as IBM eventually got out of the commodity business of selling -- and supporting -- PC, HP is finally following in their footsteps.
HP's logo is blue, and as such they are the other "big blue."
Major Unix hardware vendors have pretty much followed the same business model as well: SGI (Silicon Graphics) and Sun. They have also adopted Linux.
Hopefully Apple does not decide to drag users and developers through another 10 year transition if they choose to move to ARM processors. Several years of re-paying Adobe for compatibility (Mac OS ---> Mac OS X/PowerPC ---> MacOS X/Intel) resulted in lots of money dished out to use software ... while having few new features.
Of course Adobe is the poster child for dragging Apple, not really the other way around, after taking 10 years to port code to OPENStep, er Mac OS X/Intel (Cocoa).
As for HP's PC business, I purchase a PC that had a "large" LCD monitor. The monitor took a crap after 2.5 years and HP said it was "old" ... all the while I had a 32" Sony TV that was in non-temperature controlled storage for 3 years and still worked for 5 years after storage. So, 2.5 years is not old. HP did nothing to help with that.
If you are over 30, you probably remember the name given to IBM was "Big Blue" ... heck you probably even recall when some called them International Business Machines as well.
Anyhow, ... after Compaq made a run for selling "IBM compatible PCs" they would later merge with HP. Just as IBM eventually got out of the commodity business of selling -- and supporting -- PC, HP is finally following in their footsteps.
HP's logo is blue, and as such they are the other "big blue."
Major Unix hardware vendors have pretty much followed the same business model as well: SGI (Silicon Graphics) and Sun. They have also adopted Linux.
Hopefully Apple does not decide to drag users and developers through another 10 year transition if they choose to move to ARM processors. Several years of re-paying Adobe for compatibility (Mac OS ---> Mac OS X/PowerPC ---> MacOS X/Intel) resulted in lots of money dished out to use software ... while having few new features.
Of course Adobe is the poster child for dragging Apple, not really the other way around, after taking 10 years to port code to OPENStep, er Mac OS X/Intel (Cocoa).
As for HP's PC business, I purchase a PC that had a "large" LCD monitor. The monitor took a crap after 2.5 years and HP said it was "old" ... all the while I had a 32" Sony TV that was in non-temperature controlled storage for 3 years and still worked for 5 years after storage. So, 2.5 years is not old. HP did nothing to help with that.
I was gutted by this news yesterday just like Noah Kravitz. Anybody who has followed all OSes and used them extensively has known the brilliance of webOS, my favorite OS over iOS and Android. Noah Kravitz perfectly described webOS as like a marriage of iOS' clean GUI design and many of Android's geekiness without Palm trying to rip off either one. Palm did it their way. One of the many reasons it was held back was weak hardware. The worse thing that happened to Palm was being bought by Hewlett-Packard. A company who wasn't exactly winning any sales war with their iPAQ/WinMo phones. HP made it worse. HP deserves a face PALM or PALM slap or both. HP thinks like a dinosaur in Silicon Valley, no different than what IBM was to Steve Jobs back in the 1980's.
Jon Rubenstein is a genius and Apple wouldn't be where they are today without him creating the iPod. So what is with some of this fanboy talk when companies copy other companies' ideas for years which Apple is guilty of since the Xerox days. Palm hired Paul Mercer, an ex-employee of Apple. Apple then poached former Palm employee, Rich Dellinger, who was the mastermind of the webOS' excellent notification system and is now head of improving iOS' notifications. Google now has Matias Duarte who was the UI mastermind of webOS. They are all in neighboring cities, so taking talent from another company wouldn't be rare in Silicon Valley.
Palm should have been bought by a more popular hardware manufacturer like Nokia or even HTC who lack experience with making great software. It is sad to see Palm go out like that. They deserved better for being one of the pioneers for the PDA and smartphone market. Apple blatantly copied the Palm Treo's threaded text messages. But what a way to go, eh? Like Heath Ledger-style in The Dark Knight. Left with one last legendary performance. Only difference is Heath got awards and recognition from it. Palm will never get that except from diehard cell phone enthusiasts. I hope QNX will be end up as webOS' spiritual successor in BlackBerry phones.
Palm handled webOS like Sega handled the Dreamcast. Too many fumbles. Overtaken by competitors with better timing, stronger hardware, and stronger third-party software support. And I never equal popularity = best or the Spice Girls would be better than Nirvana or Black Sabbath just because they sold more records. Better and more popular are two different things.
WebOS was the Dreamcast of mobile OSes and Palm's beautiful swan song. Both are perhaps the most underrated mobile manufacturer and mobile OS of all-time.
R.I.P. Palm (1992-2010)
Jon Rubenstein is a genius and Apple wouldn't be where they are today without him creating the iPod. So what is with some of this fanboy talk when companies copy other companies' ideas for years which Apple is guilty of since the Xerox days. Palm hired Paul Mercer, an ex-employee of Apple. Apple then poached former Palm employee, Rich Dellinger, who was the mastermind of the webOS' excellent notification system and is now head of improving iOS' notifications. Google now has Matias Duarte who was the UI mastermind of webOS. They are all in neighboring cities, so taking talent from another company wouldn't be rare in Silicon Valley.
Palm should have been bought by a more popular hardware manufacturer like Nokia or even HTC who lack experience with making great software. It is sad to see Palm go out like that. They deserved better for being one of the pioneers for the PDA and smartphone market. Apple blatantly copied the Palm Treo's threaded text messages. But what a way to go, eh? Like Heath Ledger-style in The Dark Knight. Left with one last legendary performance. Only difference is Heath got awards and recognition from it. Palm will never get that except from diehard cell phone enthusiasts. I hope QNX will be end up as webOS' spiritual successor in BlackBerry phones.
Palm handled webOS like Sega handled the Dreamcast. Too many fumbles. Overtaken by competitors with better timing, stronger hardware, and stronger third-party software support. And I never equal popularity = best or the Spice Girls would be better than Nirvana or Black Sabbath just because they sold more records. Better and more popular are two different things.
WebOS was the Dreamcast of mobile OSes and Palm's beautiful swan song. Both are perhaps the most underrated mobile manufacturer and mobile OS of all-time.
R.I.P. Palm (1992-2010)
It seems in answering the other posters question, you got lost...
You had it for a second and regressed. There is no announcement to wait for, they just made it.
HP is technically just taking one part of their business and putting it on a different balance sheet, or set of books. In layman's terms, think of it as you have 1 checking account from your job and a second checking account from a part time job. Obviously, your main job represents your earning power better.
So yes, they still are making computers technically. It does, as many other posters have pointed out, make it easier to sell that business off at a later date and time.
Companies do this to make their stock more attractive to shareholders with better looking numbers. It can also be wise if in HP's case, one part of their business is tanking their stock and value as a company. HP wouldn't want another company swooping in and doing a take over, so you chop of the bad limb to protect the rest (keep the valuable parts and hopefully boost stock prices and share holder value) and hope someone buys the bad limb for maybe a few good extremities, or that maybe that limb can be useful on it's own. It's good for stock holders because they get a stake in the spin off company as well, and stand to make gains in the mix.
This entire post is all Wall Street except for that tidbit about the tablet and phone business. I called that a month ago. They couldn't get any carriers to take the Pre (they all backed out or said no). It was an awful product launch and a very dated product compared to the rest of the market. Apparently they see some value in Web OS, but then again, IBM saw some value in OS2/Warp and that got them... well, it ran some ATM machines for awhile.
HP misfired with their entry into mobile, and financially that loss is lethal. I think it they went back to the drawing board they might have something (they seem to think so too in keeping Web OS), but how are they going to convince third parties that Web OS is worth investing in as a platform when they failed after Palm failed? THAT is the multi-million dollar question. The answer is... they won't.... unless.... Android loses favor with third parties. Google is now officially in the hardware business with their purchase of Motorla's handset division (another spin off), and is under a lot of fire that might make the "free" Android OS cost third party companies a bit of money per device down the line. That's where Web OS could find a second life if it were licensed cheaper than what it's going to cost to use Android. Again, a few years might go by before that issue ever gets settled. $5-$15 per device for a third party company for Android still isn't high compared to developing your own software. I would favor more that Web OS will meet it's demise... especially with the spin off of the computer business, as Web OS was going to see integration into HP computers. If you take the computer arm off but keep Web OS with the parent company, that strategy dies in the fire too.
I think you have some mighty strong rose colored glasses there. webOS has been buggy and slow since the beginning. Have a few neat features doesn't compensate for that.
http://www.marco.org/2011/08/19/rose-colored-glasses
johnnyturbouk
macrumors 68000
I'm just now waking up and seeing that HP is liqudating all webOS devices. 16GB TouchPad for $99 and 32GB for $149. CRAZY. If I see one I'm going for it. I want a tablet pretty bad but the iPad 3G costs a damn fortune.
You're already too late. At least around here, it's sold out everywhere. It's crazy how fast they went at those price, even with the discontinuation notice.
While the products and support services play a role. You shouldn't discount the fact that many people buy from large, stable companies because they are large stable companies. It is the "Nobody ever got fired by buying IBM" syndrome. As some of the other large Windows PC vendors start to look troubled or stumble there is Apple with ridiculous billions in the bank (not going under even if they stopped selling all products for several years) and reasonable upscale products.
Once not shackled to the constant periodic drumbeat of "Apple is going to die" vibe, a whole new group will put them on the eligible to buy list. This is just one of several groups who Apple previously had not been selling into that they are now.
Apple might still want the patent portfolio and some of the personnel assuming there are any left.
But the bad news is that if Apple got a hold of WebOS, Steve Jobs would immediately put it in Al Gore's "Lock Box" and you would never ever see it again, outside of possibly some features showing up in future iOS releases.
Did HP manufacture Apple's original LaserWriter printer?
I know Apple re-branded HP inkjets back in the day.
It would be kinda cool if Apple had cool looking printers to match the cool looking iMac designs.
Considering the Enyo framework that you use to build apps for WebOS is mostly Javascript and HTML and uses things like JSON, then the name is very well chosen.
I too think that 2008 and 2009 was the peak for HP laptops. Just look at the HP laptops they sell in retail stores now. Ugly faux carbon fiber design, ultra-glossy screens with orange peel effects.
I think things could have gone very differently for Palm had they launched the Pre with more than one carrier relationship in Sprint in 2009. Android had taken off yet (Android's ascent largely begins with the Droid launch in November of 2009). They could have made a serious foothold with a 4 carrier launch, a commercial that actually showed what the phone did without some creepy lady, and the willingness to go and grab some good 3rd party dev support for their platform.
Sounds like the perfect opportunity for Packard Bell to return to the U.S market