HTC Delays Evo 4G LTE Launch as U.S. Customs Investigates Shipments for Breach of Apple Patent

[JAT]

A phone is a phone, won't be my last purchase, to me it's a demonstration of principal.

You don't think Apple sells our location information and other sorts as well?

I guess it's just me, but somehow holding yourself up as principled...well, I would just spell it correctly considering the meaning of the word.

And no, Apple doesn't sell private info. There has been much discussion and even court cases about this. If they had been proved to do so, we would have heard.

 

[Tiger8]

You see, there is the problem right there: Only big companies with large legal departments and sufficient funding for them can afford those legal battles. It does not matter if you own a patent. It only matters if you have the money to start the legal battle. If you violate some small company's patent that does have the funding to defend its patent, nobody will stop you. That's the dirty game companies like Apple and Oracle play.

Thank you. Unfortunately this is a problem in our legal system and I don't think it is easy to fix; the rich always win.

 

[KnightWRX]

Nice shout out, bro. If you read what I wrote, I don't actually agree with what's going on. I think it's awful that the One X can't be imported in America and that this is largely ridiculous. All I said was that the issue isn't as simple as "HTC used the color white, so Apple is suing!" Patents are patents, people, and whether you or I like it, they prove that they have ownership of an idea/concept.

Not all patents are created equal. There are concerns of obviousness and prior art that need to be taken into consideration. Every case is a case by case basis.

Also, the Motorola patent dispute is an ENTIRELY different issue dealing with unfair practices and FRAND patents. That's a much grayer area than what I'm talking about.

Apple hasn't paid for use of the patents. The issue is the same, whether the license rights need to be FRAND or not. If they are in infringement, they need to pay. FRAND doesn't mean Apple gets to use them willy-nilly for free.

 

[faroZ06]

This seems a bit aggressive... not exactly laissez-faire...

Then again, violating trademarks and patents and such is criminal, so I guess it's called for.

HTC's slogan, "Quietly Brilliant", is very false. They spam us with advertisements and copy everything (not just from Apple).

 

[KnightWRX]

Then again, violating trademarks and patents and such is criminal, so I guess it's called for.

Patents and trademark infringement are not criminal at all. Some provisions of the copyright act are under the criminal code.

These are civil precedings, not criminal.

 

[faroZ06]

A phone is a phone, won't be my last purchase, to me it's a demonstration of principal.

I love my iPhone, don't get me wrong and fully expect to use it off and on after as well, but, in an attempt to increase sales of this device, yes, I will buy one. Before this story, I would not have.

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You don't think Apple sells our location information and other sorts as well?

Don't be a fanboy; if Apple sold information on our locations, we'd hear about it. You're really buying a phone that you think is worse just to increase their sales?

Even then, any company selling location info is just telling other companies which city we live in, which isn't much of a privacy breach in my book. I wouldn't care if my Droid (if I had one) or iPhone 4 sold my location. I'm sure AT&T, Verizon, and Weather Direct know my city (and address).

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The entire legal system in the US is based on who has the most money.
Since the outcome/ruling when it's not a clear case is never without a risk, people without enough money to go through an entire case will always have to settle.

It's a simple calculation:

Settle for X dollars or spend!

Cynical viewpoint , but my real life experience.

The moron who spilled her coffee was able to sue McDonalds and get money easily. A small company with a good reason could beat a large company in a lawsuit.

But it is certainly unfair. Usually, the one with the most resources put into lawyers can win. Apple, Google, and (especially) Microsoft do it. But I agree with Apple on this one; HTC steals from everyone.

 

[iMeanIt]

the US Government remains the biggest Government in the world and you still need to respect their (surprisingly low) corporate tax rates.

The USA has among the highest (I think third highest) corporate tax rates in the world! That's why so many companies (Apple included) set up small presences in countries that they already market in so as to avoid bring those profits back here. The way it is now, Apple holds $74 Billion worth of profits outside of the USA (where the profits were earned) so as to avoid an almost 50% tax-grab to bring it back to the USA.

 

[cvam1985]

Surely everyone is thinking what I am: this is going to be quickly resolved and this is just another tiny blip on the patent war radar.

But what if it's not? Can you imagine what would happen if every One X and Evo Lte is sent back to Taiwan or wherever? I bet it would be a huge OMG not only in the tech blogosphere but it would blow up everywhere. If that happened I would imagine all smartphone OEMs would be shaken up pretty bad.

 

[aerok]

HTC's slogan, "Quietly Brilliant", is very false. They spam us with advertisements and copy everything (not just from Apple).

Advertisements? Have you ever even used one?

Copy everything? HTC has came up with so many original hardware designs over the past several years. I believe they were the first with a unibody phone with the Legend. They are also known to have tried different hinges for their hard keyboard phones. They are all about innovation.

The moron who spilled her coffee was able to sue McDonalds and get money easily. A small company with a good reason could beat a large company in a lawsuit.

Read about the case, it is not as moronic as you think it is.

 

[KnightWRX]

Advertisements? Have you ever even used one?

Copy everything? HTC has came up with so many original hardware designs over the past several years. I believe they were the first with a unibody phone with the Legend. They are also known to have tried different hinges for their hard keyboard phones. They are all about innovation.

Their HTC Sense UI especially seems to be quite appreciated by the industry.

 

[faroZ06]

Advertisements? Have you ever even used one?

Copy everything? HTC has came up with so many original hardware designs over the past several years. I believe they were the first with a unibody phone with the Legend. They are also known to have tried different hinges for their hard keyboard phones. They are all about innovation.



Read about the case, it is not as moronic as you think it is.

They advertise way more than anyone else in the industry (well, maybe T-Mobile does more). The Legend came out in 2010, but the 2007 iPhone was already unibody. Most phone companies have tried different hinges on their phones.

And I read about the case. The lady got her coffee (which was cooler than boiling point) and spilled it on her lap in the car then sued McDonald's for making the coffee too hot. Um, it's coffee! You have to get it near boiling point to brew.

 

[aerok]

They advertise way more than anyone else in the industry (well, maybe T-Mobile does more). The Legend came out in 2010, but the 2007 iPhone was already unibody. Most phone companies have tried different hinges on their phones.

And I read about the case. The lady got her coffee (which was cooler than boiling point) and spilled it on her lap in the car then sued McDonald's for making the coffee too hot. Um, it's coffee! You have to boil it to brew.

The iPhone is not unibody, never has been. HTC hinges were always very different, check out HTC Titan and HTC Desire Z. They also took risks in trying new form factors, HTC Advantage, they do innovate. And as previously mentioned, HTC Sense has always been about innovation, ever since Windows Mobile 6.

Advertisement is different in every countries. Where I live (Montreal, Canada), I see more iPhone commcercial than any other companies. In Europe, I'll find more ads from Nokia over anything else. When I travel to Korea, I see ads from Samsung, LG and Apple.

The coffee at McDonalds was not at boiling point but it was still 22 degrees higher than the recommended safe temperature. This created a 3rd degree burn, hence the lawsuit.

 

[Sensation]

The HTC One X is a brilliant phone, I am so jealous of the guy who has one at my work

 

[TennisandMusic]

The problem here is the actual patent itself. It's practically a patent on "computer science" and was filed in the 90's.

The patent is literally "see some data, and provide a clickable action choice for it." If you are a computer scientist, the patent seems downright evil. It is incredibly generic and could be used to try and take down anything. The very fact Apple is using it to try to stifle competition, in this particular instance, is really really shameful.

I understand most people on these boards have no idea about these things and are just Apple fans. In this case however, while Apple might have the legal upper hand, they are clearly and unequivocally in the wrong. You should not be able to patent something so ridiculously basic as this.

Should clickable hyperlinks be patented to one company? Should a I-IV-V progression be able to be patented or copyrighted by the first musician to use it? Should a cook be able to patent the use of fire in preparing food?

 

[faroZ06]

The iPhone is not unibody, never has been. HTC hinges were always very different, check out HTC Titan and HTC Desire Z. They also took risks in trying new form factors, HTC Advantage, they do innovate. And as previously mentioned, HTC Sense has always been about innovation, ever since Windows Mobile 6.

Advertisement is different in every countries. Where I live (Montreal, Canada), I see more iPhone commcercial than any other companies. In Europe, I'll find more ads from Nokia over anything else. When I travel to Korea, I see ads from Samsung, LG and Apple.

The coffee at McDonalds was not at boiling point but it was still 22 degrees higher than the recommended safe temperature. This created a 3rd degree burn, hence the lawsuit.

How is the iPhone not unibody? Have you tried taking one of those things apart?

And the customer should assume that the coffee will burn him if it is spilled. They serve it hot, but that's no reason to drink it at that temperature. I serve myself tea at almost 100˚C, but I don't drink it until it is cooler. For all McDonald's knows, the customer could keep it for a while before drinking it. And they will serve it at the temperature it is brewed at.

 

[AP_piano295]

The problem here is the actual patent itself. It's practically a patent on "computer science" and was filed in the 90's.

The patent is literally "see some data, and provide a clickable action choice for it." If you are a computer scientist, the patent seems downright evil. It is incredibly generic and could be used to try and take down anything. The very fact Apple is using it to try to stifle competition, in this particular instance, is really really shameful.

I understand most people on these boards have no idea about these things and are just Apple fans. In this case however, while Apple might have the legal upper hand, they are clearly and unequivocally in the wrong. You should not be able to patent something so ridiculously basic as this.

Should clickable hyperlinks be patented to one company? Should a I-IV-V progression be able to be patented or copyrighted by the first musician to use it? Should a cook be able to patent the use of fire in preparing food?

I would be frankly amazed if US customs would be willing to do this sort of thing to an American company (Motorola or Apple for example).

I suppose I'm inclined to believe that Apple has applied some influence to get this done. If they can delay the One X for even a month it might have some significant impact on people's buying decisions. Thousands of people might decide to hold off on One X and wait for the iPhone 5. It's just a question of the trade off between wait and reward.

But delaying a product and shortening it's sale opportunity during its "novelty" period is a big hit.

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How is the iPhone not unibody? Have you tried taking one of those things apart?

And the customer should assume that the coffee will burn him if it is spilled. They serve it hot, but that's no reason to drink it at that temperature. I serve myself tea at almost 100˚C, but I don't drink it until it is cooler. For all McDonald's knows, the customer could keep it for a while before drinking it. And they will serve it at the temperature it is brewed at.

It's not uni-body because the body is not built from a single piece of material.

Uni-body macbooks = built from a single block of aluminum.

How difficult something is to take a-part doesn't relate to its construction.

 

[aerok]

How is the iPhone not unibody? Have you tried taking one of those things apart?

And the customer should assume that the coffee will burn him if it is spilled. They serve it hot, but that's no reason to drink it at that temperature. I serve myself tea at almost 100˚C, but I don't drink it until it is cooler. For all McDonald's knows, the customer could keep it for a while before drinking it. And they will serve it at the temperature it is brewed at.

Ok, first of all, you apparently do not know what unibody means.

Second of all, not going to pursue the Mcdonalds thing with you, you clearly do not understand why she won.

 

[kharvel]

Wonder what the people cheering for this news will say if the iPhone gets held up at customs following an ITC ruling against Apple :

http://www.slashgear.com/itc-finds-apple-violates-one-motorola-patent-24224485/

Apple was found to infringe a Motorola patent by the ITC on the 24th of April and a ban could be issued for iPads and iPhones.

Will VirtualBall and others claiming "you need to respect Apple's patents" do the same against Apple and for Motorola ?

The difference between that Motorola ITC ruling on Apple and the ITC ruling on HTC is that the former is based on FRAND-encumbered patents whereas the latter is based on non-FRAND patents.

Everyone expects the U.S. courts to make rulings on those FRAND obligations that favor Apple and force Motorola to license the patents to Apple on FRAND terms. ONce that happens, the ITC ruling against Apple will be overturned/neutralized and the iPhone shipments will not be affected anymore.

No such relief is possible for HTC or anyone else found to have infringed on Apple patents because those Apple patents are not FRAND-encumbered and Apple is not obligated in the eyes of the law to license the patents on any terms. Therefore, the ITC ruling is in and of itself a permanent ruling.

 

[milk242]

Does Apple have a patent on the idea of data detection or a patent on how they implemented data detection?

If it's the former, then the US Patent system really needs a reform. How can companies patent these things. This will only hinder current and future developers.

 

[sfjava]

No it's not.
The conversion in question is from within specific functions within HTC's implementation of Android. More specifically to claim 410 of the 647 patent.

See Figure 4 (410) This is what Apple claims HTC infringed on.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=aFEWAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q&f=false

On a Nexus device (pure Android), you are not presented with a menu of options on actionable links (phone numbers or email addresses as described in the 647 patent. It simply dials a phone number or opens a new email. It may ask which program to use to take the action, but that is not covered in any of the claims in the 647 patent.
In other words, the default action is already predetermined.

Does anyone know whether the new HTC Evo is using the above function to avoid Apple's patent? It'd be easy for HTC to use the Nexus approach, wouldn't it?

 

[rjohnstone]

The real question is how long will U.S. Customs drag their feet before they simply fire up a phone and see if the infringing "feature" is still there?

Don't get me started on how Apple managed to get this patent approved in the first place.
It has obviousness and prior art written all over it.

 

[aerok]

Does anyone know whether the new HTC Evo is using the above function to avoid Apple's patent? It'd be easy for HTC to use the Nexus approach, wouldn't it?

The feature is part of HTC Sense, they would have to remove it the function but considering the ban, I guess it was not done.

 

[BJonson]

I have an iPhone 4s and all the ones that came before it. I just got a Galaxy Nexus and luckily on launch day got the HTC One X. I must say I highly prefer the android devices. Yes, they are a little buggy but the benefits outway the negatives.

For example, I now have a file system. Love it. For the work I do its imperative. Also I can now log into my work email and other systems with chrome where as they did not work on the iphone. Lets not forget the screen difference. Its literally life changing. The iphone screen is too small for me. The big bright screen on the one x is fantastic and I must say the camera is way better. Really easy to use. I took a video of my kids the other day and in 2 clicks had it up on facebook for all to see. My wife took a video too with here 4s and was stuck as to how to get it to facebook.

Another thing I really like is being able to plug this phone up to my PC and move files around like a usb drive. That is a huge benefit as well.

Its tough to wait for the products you want apple to come out with especially when the already exist in the competing market. Some times you just have to let go of apple to get what you want. Example, galaxy tab 7". Loving this tab. Perfect size. Thinkpad with blu-ray burner. Loving it. I was a die hard mac fan last year but I am slowly moving back to windows and android because of the great hardware that has been coming out. I'm getting older and can't wait for apple to release what I want. Seems like with apple I am waiting forever.

As for apples patent, well really now. Its like patenting the word dog and nobody can say it anymore. Some things are common practice and eventually the courts will rule that way. Not all patents are legal. Just because they were granted the patent doesn't make it law. Some are just ridiculous.

 

[DougB541]

[/COLOR]

No it's not.
The conversion in question is from within specific functions within HTC's implementation of Android. More specifically to claim 410 of the 647 patent.

See Figure 4 (410) This is what Apple claims HTC infringed on.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=aFEWAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q&f=false

On a Nexus device (pure Android), you are not presented with a menu of options on actionable links (phone numbers or email addresses as described in the 647 patent. It simply dials a phone number or opens a new email. It may ask which program to use to take the action, but that is not covered in any of the claims in the 647 patent.
In other words, the default action is already predetermined.

Got it...thanks for clearing that up. But apparently these were halted without due cause then:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/16/3...lte-custom-android-build-apple-patent-linkify
HTC shipping custom Android builds on US devices to avoid Apple patents

 

[KnightWRX]

The difference between that Motorola ITC ruling on Apple and the ITC ruling on HTC is that the former is based on FRAND-encumbered patents whereas the latter is based on non-FRAND patents.

Everyone expects the U.S. courts to make rulings on those FRAND obligations that favor Apple and force Motorola to license the patents to Apple on FRAND terms. ONce that happens, the ITC ruling against Apple will be overturned/neutralized and the iPhone shipments will not be affected anymore.

No such relief is possible for HTC or anyone else found to have infringed on Apple patents because those Apple patents are not FRAND-encumbered and Apple is not obligated in the eyes of the law to license the patents on any terms. Therefore, the ITC ruling is in and of itself a permanent ruling.

The problem as in the past is that Apple seems to want to fight tooth and nail against FRAND terms, always claiming they aren't "Fair". And they drag their feet on the licensing, which leads to these lawsuits. Nokia, Samsung, Motorola, all have had to drag Apple to court to get licensing fees paid for their FRAND patents.