Hybrid SSHD drives in SATA1 PPCs & G5s ok?

Eriamjh1138@DAN

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I've searched and can't find a conclusive answer so I thought I'd ask.

I am well aware of the SATA1 limitations in the PMG5s that prevents us from using SATA3 SSDs (SATA2 OK, if you can find them), and I believe I have seen that the SATA3 HDD spinners are OK as long as they have a SATA1 jumper on them you can force.

So are the hybrid SSHDs OK to use in G5s as boot drives? I want the speed of the SSD but the capacity of the spinner HDD. If so, does anyone have any recommendations.

Are they worth it? I can get 2TB for $100 from amazon and I haven't' price-shopped anywhere else yet.
 

dbdjre0143

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Nov 11, 2017
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I can't speak specifically to application in the PMG5, but I'd recommend reading up on the advantages of the hybrid drive. I looked into them a bit awhile back when considering them for a PC, and my reading led me away, because my understanding was that they do not provide nearly the speed boost of a real SSD (which makes sense as they are essentially just a traditional spinner with a large SSD-cache). Of course YMMV on the speed boost, since that depends on the application and how "smart" the drive is about what it puts on that SSD-portion.
This is a decent article discussing the above from a quick Google, though I can't say I know too much about the validity of the source, so take it with a grain of salt and more searching of your own: https://www.ghacks.net/2013/11/04/need-know-solid-state-hybrid-drives-sshd/
However, at $100 for a 2TB hybrid drive, I would say the smarter money could be in purchasing two drives, a smallish boot SSD and a large spinner for data storage.
 

swamprock

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Aug 2, 2015
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However, at $100 for a 2TB hybrid drive, I would say the smarter money could be in purchasing two drives, a smallish boot SSD and a large spinner for data storage.
This is exactly what I did in my 2004 DP2.0 G5. Luckily for me, we have two electronics recyclers in town, and I am able to get ahold of SATA 2 SSDs at a fairly decent price. My boot drive is an older Samsung 128mb SSD (PM500 or something like that; I forget the exact model and I'm at work right now), and my slave drive is a 500mb Samsung spinner. Stay away from Micron SATA2 SSDs, though, that were in HP laptops. They don't work at all with the G5.
 

Eriamjh1138@DAN

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Original poster
Sep 16, 2007
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I appreciate the responses. The 8Gb is pretty small in an SSHD. It’s Either speed or capacity. A PMG5 can have both since it has 2 drive bays. My iMac can have either. I just have to decide which one it deserves.

I’ll go with speed.
 
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AphoticD

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Feb 17, 2017
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Has anybody tried to software RAID 2x fast SSDs in a G5? In theory, the G5 should be capable of a bootable SSD RAID with ~300MB/sec throughput with the two SATA I busses combined.
 

Project Alice

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I was under the impression that sata was completely backward compatible? I've had no problem using sata 2 and 3 in sata 1 PCs. I have no idea what types of drives are in my Powermac G5 at the moment, I didnt bother to check I just installed them. Is there some weird limitation on G5s that prevent the use of newer drives or something?
 

Eriamjh1138@DAN

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Sep 16, 2007
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I was under the impression that sata was completely backward compatible? I've had no problem using sata 2 and 3 in sata 1 PCs. I have no idea what types of drives are in my Powermac G5 at the moment, I didnt bother to check I just installed them. Is there some weird limitation on G5s that prevent the use of newer drives or something?
PMG5s have a problem with SATA III SSDs (but not spinners) on their SATA 1 busses. There’s something wrong with the way the backwards compatibility was implemented or with the way SATA1 was implemented on the PMs. It’s well known to G5 owners.

G5center.net has a page about it under Hardware.

Add to that the issues with lack of trim and overprovisioning and you have... a PMG5 challenge.

Anywhoo, I’m copying my iMac setup to a 100GB Vertex SATA II drive and should be able to test it tonight or this weekend. I think I’ll bend over and just buy an OWC 3G Drive for the PM.
 
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LightBulbFun

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Nov 17, 2013
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if its worth anything when I was buying a 500GB Samsung 850 Evo late last year for my Mac Pro 5,1 I briefly chucked it into my G5 Quad to see what it would do, and much to my pleasant surprise it showed up fine :) I didn't run any benchmarks or the like on it tho.

as for RAIDing SSDs in a G5, it depends on the architecture of the K2 SATA controller (are the 2 SATA buses completely independent of each other or are they sharing the same link somewhere?) , it would be very interesting to try and see what benchmark results one would get :)
 

Eriamjh1138@DAN

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Knowing if the Samsung 850 SSDs work in the PMG5 would be of great value to the community.

As for SATA busses being combined or separate, I'm no expert, but I would hope that Apple implemented them so that they can be maximized in a PowerMac and made them as independent as possible.
 

vddrnnr

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Jan 23, 2017
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Hi all,

I'm using a TOSHIBA Q300 SATAIII SSD drive in one of my powermac g5's.
It's running in slot B, in slot A it wouldn't detect it and also
with two drives it wouldn't work.
So I think it really depends on a combination of factors and not just being SATAIII.
Other older SSDs I tries would not work even though they where not SATAIII,

Best regards,
voidRunner
 

ziggy29

macrumors 6502
Oct 29, 2014
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Oregon North Coast
Knowing if the Samsung 850 SSDs work in the PMG5 would be of great value to the community.

As for SATA busses being combined or separate, I'm no expert, but I would hope that Apple implemented them so that they can be maximized in a PowerMac and made them as independent as possible.
At one point I temporarily hooked up a Sammy EVO 850 internally to the second SATA port on my Quad G5 and it worked fine.... but it was just to test data transfer on an unused partition of the drive. So while it worked with what little I did, I never used it as a boot drive or for sustained usage.
 

Eriamjh1138@DAN

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Sep 16, 2007
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Follow up to an old thread.

I installed a 7200 rpm 1Tb spinner HDD extracted from a 2011 iMac and had to install the jumper to force SATA 1 speeds before it was recognized. I think all mechanical drives have this jumper.

XBench results Be very similar between the spinner and my IBM SSD with the exception of a few parameters. Booting either felt the same on operation. I’m convinced that the G5 isn’t as speed limited by the SSD or HDD as it is by its own bus.

That said, I’m satisfied with its performance the way I use it with only 4GB of ram. I just dread when I have to repaste the micros and service the cooling system.

I‘M done investing in this 15 old machine for now.
 

TzunamiOSX

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Oct 4, 2009
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PMG5s have a problem with SATA III SSDs (but not spinners) on their SATA 1 busses. There’s something wrong with the way the backwards compatibility was implemented or with the way SATA1 was implemented on the PMs. It’s well known to G5 owners.
Ähem, buy the right, get the right:
Bild 1.png

- - Post merged: - -

I‘M done investing in this 15 old machine for now.
I have payed

1. $14 for 4GB extra RAM
2. $18 Airport Card
3. $40 240 GB SSD
 
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Bug-Creator

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Ähem, buy the right, get the right:
Got the same drive in my iSight 21" iMac, works without problem.

My PowerMac7.3 has a Seagate Hybrid (some older 500GB 2.5" drive), also works.

Back than I did try some random 60GB SATA SSD which only worked (not 100% reliable) in the lower drive bay.
 

timidpimpin

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I would stay far away from SSHD's. If you look around the internet you will see they're the most unreliable type of drive ever made. If you can only hold one drive and want it as fast as possible, then use an SSD. If your system can hold more than one drive, then use a small SSD for the OS/Apps and a bigger spinner for personal files.
 
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Intell

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Jan 24, 2010
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The earlier hybrid drivers were unreliable due to firmware problems. Those released since about 2015 and later are much better and have the same failure rate as their HDD counterparts.
 

iluvmacs99

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Apr 9, 2019
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I would stay far away from SSHD's. If you look around the internet you will see they're the most unreliable type of drive ever made. If you can only hold one drive and want it as fast as possible, then use an SSD. If your system can hold more than one drive, then use a small SSD for the OS/Apps and a bigger spinner for personal files.
Not sure why this myth kept being peddled for a decade or so, but I own 3 of them now (2x500gb and 1 750Gb with a 16Gb SSD in my PowerMac G5), and one of them has the defective firmware in my old Macbook 2006 now running Linux. I used it since 2007 and 13 years later it is still going strong. My Crucial SSD which was supposedly to be built like a tank died in 6 years time. My Sandisk SSD died in 5 years. My WD green drive and I have 2 of them died in 8 years. Everything dies one way or another. There is no such thing as an absolute truth about hard drive failures or SSD. Below is my oldest 500Gb SSHD drive that is 13 years old of its SMART value, which according to the myth should die and yet I have 3 of them (all a decade + old) and they had yet to die. Most of these myths I think are circulated by people who don't own these products, have a bias on these products or just had bad luck on the product and then have a revenge vindictive agenda, out of anger, to discredit and put down the product.

I find that sometimes people create their own reality in regards to computer products, which sometimes do not even reflect the true reality of the product themselves. This podcast explains it well.

seagate.png
 
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timidpimpin

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Nov 10, 2018
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I'll certainly concede that they've gotten better, but they're still less reliable than a standard spinner or SSD. About the biggest one on the market right now is the Seagate Firecuda. Just go look at some of the reviews.

To be honest, with current SSD prices, the SSHD's almost have no real market anymore. At least the prices just before the human malware outbreak.
 
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iluvmacs99

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Apr 9, 2019
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I'll certainly concede that they've gotten better, but they're still less reliable than a standard spinner or SSD. About the biggest one on the market right now is the Seagate Firecuda. Just go look at some of the reviews.

To be honest, with current SSD prices, the SSHD's almost have no real market anymore. At least the prices just before the human malware outbreak.
You know how they portrayed United Airlines for years, filtering down to 2 security guards dragging the doctor out of his seat, along the carpet and out the plane because he wasn't willing to give up his seat. Reviews of United Airlines were mostly bad, garnering a 1.5 star on google, but still doesn't deter people from flying United except maybe COVID. My experience with United Airlines over the past decade either flying on business and pleasure had been very good. In fact, like the Seagate issues, I just didn't see it. In fact, over a decade, it was mostly uneventful and I would give them a 4 star out of 5, and in some flights, I would be happy with the service and yet another person in the same flight felt miserable and then took upon him/herself to write a negative review. I don't have an explanation as to why, but I believe it comes down to his/her reality as opposed to my own reality.

As I said earlier; people create their own reality and the reviews are in instances a view into their own personal lives and personal psychology. Everyone has a certain expectation on the products they buy, and unless we have a way to read into their psychology, we need to understand that reviews review products based on their own personal psychology and the roles they defined for themselves and rate the products or review the products based on that role. It could be many things and perhaps the Seagate drive didn't meet that expectation, a proper SSD would. There are many variables when it comes to reviews and I had come to my own personal conclusion that, I will take any reviews simply as a guide, not a gospel, not the final truth. Look at what happened if you had followed Carl Icahn and put all your life savings into Hertz, if a person believes Carl has the final say or truth in investing money; then you'll be broke after COVID 19.

But it's true also that SSDs nowadays are affordable which make SSHD redundant. But I paid $15 for 750Gb used and $10 for the 500Gb used and $89 for the last one which I bought new. The people who sold me those used drives all sold because of the bad reviews and they had every motivation to quickly dump them. Thank you again for the fear mongering reviewers, allowing me to buy their distress assets because nobody else wants to deal with it with a ten foot pole. :)
 

Intell

macrumors P6
Jan 24, 2010
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I'll certainly concede that they've gotten better, but they're still less reliable than a standard spinner or SSD. About the biggest one on the market right now is the Seagate Firecuda. Just go look at some of the reviews.

To be honest, with current SSD prices, the SSHD's almost have no real market anymore. At least the prices just before the human malware outbreak.
They're no less reliable. Seagate Barracuda drives have gotten lots of mixed reviews. The Firecuda line uses a Barracuda HDD as their base. Those Barracuda drives that fail do so in both the Barracuda and Firecuda line. Adding in a small SSD does not increase the chances of failure by any registerable margin.
 
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