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It is much more modular. I can keep my display for 10 years if I want and upgrade my Mac Studio any time. I can upgrade my display without needing a new computer. I also use three monitors. I need all three monitors to match. There is no possible way to get two monitors to match the height, width, bezels, resolution, etc of the iMac screen. I am free to choose a $300 monitor, or a $1,500 monitor if I want. I am free to focus on high refresh rates (which helps me with my eye strain), or not. I have so much flexibility choosing my own monitor that I simply don't have with an iMac. I don't know why flexibility is considered a bad value for you.
I like flexibility. I don't like the price of flexibility as Apple has framed it.

A year ago, you could get a 27" Intel iMac starting, at, oh, I don't remember, let's say $2799CAD. Maybe $2499CAD. And there were tons of of options - if you wanted a faster processor, more RAM, more SSD, you could pay a little more and get that. (Oh, and user-upgradeable RAM, but...)

Today, the studio display with the same panel, a panel that was state of the art in... 2014... is $1999CAD.

Can you get a passable Mac with 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, a magic mouse, an apple wireless keyboard, etc for $800CAD? Not even close, unless you consider the base model M1 Mini to be a reasonable substitute - that's $899CAD, plus $250 for the input peripherals, so you're at only $350 more.

If the studio display was whatever-the-price of the LG 5K display was, okay, this might be passable value. If the studio display had ProMotion, mini LED, or any kind of innovation beyond the 2014-era 5K retina 27" screen, I might be happy to pay $1999 for a monitor that I would keep a decade.

But the Mac studio + Studio display combination just feels like you are spending top dollar for a combination that... isn't worth the steep price tag, at least on the monitor end. (I actually don't think the Mac studio itself is that unfairly priced) And a combination that feels like one day not that far off, they will get the newer display technologies into that form factor/price tag and then you'll feel like an idiot with your $1999 Studio display when there's the new $2299 Studio Display XDR. And I think the odds are overwhelmingly that a studio display XDR will not work with the first-gen Mac studio.
 
Also...

Did you guys notice that Dell just announced, today, a 32" monitor with basically a 6K retina resolution? We know Dell's UltraSharp monitors use panels from LG Display, same as Apple's...

... so I think the likelihood of a 32" iMac Pro 6K or a 32" Studio Display 6K just went up. Maybe that's what Apple was waiting for.
 
Would they abandon their 27" iMac users by discounting it without a word of a replacement? No. Instead they told us Mac Studio and Studio Display is the new 27" iMac. I don't think we will see a larger iMac.
Maybe there will, maybe their won't, but the point is that Apple saying only the MacPro is left to transition has nothing to do with a larger iMac because there is an M1 iMac.
 
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Just another reason why they're most likely going to rebrand the 27 inch iMac as an iMac Pro. Screen resolution isn't gonna drive units on the big iMac anymore, power and value for that power will.
Yes, with the way that Apple does products these days, Apple likely would call any larger iMac an iMac Pro but it would be a mid range performance device (like the 27” iMac) and not the high end device like the old iMac Pro.
 
People are talking about the 27" iMac, even the OP. But I still highly doubt we will see a larger iMac.
People were talking about the 21" (21.5) iMac before Apple unveiled the 24" (23.5) iMac. Even if you keep the form factor and only reduce the bezels, the screen is going to grow a little bit. Maybe the result we be a 30" iMac? We don't know until Apple unveils the screen size for the next decade.

It's an engineering challenge to fit an M-Pro (and M-Max) chip in there and keep it at silent operation. Also the larger iMac will need to match the screen quality of the MacBook Pro. It can't just be the colorful M1 iMac with a bigger screen. Right now there's not a single Mac desktop with an M1 Pro chip in it. This can't be the final forever lineup.
 
You would think if they had anything planned, they would have said so other than "one left to update - Mac Pro". They would have said "A larger iMac and a Mac Pro are left to update".
You can't do that because of the Osborne effect. People wouldn't buy the Studio Display or 24" iMac. And Steve Jobs loved secrecy. He always wanted to surprise customers and competition alike with his "one more thing", which you could buy right after its unveiling. Pre announcements are a very un-Apple thing to do.
 
I am sure Apple would be happy to sell a Mac mini alongside a Studio Display, but they definitely don't market the two towards each other...!
I was at an Apple mini store within a best buy recently and this was exactly the configuration they had on display in the store—- painfully it was the base model M1 mini with 8gb ram.

I was inspecting that studio display and thinking wow this should just be the 27inch imac by itself. It’s nearly halfway to being a computer as it is, with an ios chip and a camera already in it.
 
Maybe there will, maybe their won't, but the point is that Apple saying only the MacPro is left to transition has nothing to do with a larger iMac because there is an M1 iMac.
But the M1 iMac is NOT a 27” or 32”. It does nothing for the pros. So it’s a different product category.
 
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You can't do that because of the Osborne effect. People wouldn't buy the Studio Display or 24" iMac. And Steve Jobs loved secrecy. He always wanted to surprise customers and competition alike with his "one more thing", which you could buy right after its unveiling. Pre announcements are a very un-Apple thing to do.
People would buy it because there were two iMac sizes before. Now people just left Apple or it hurt their image with no word on a replacement. That’s far worse than what you state which would have no impact. People purchased the iMac Pro when they just said it was temporary. People purchased the Mac Studio even though the Mac Pro is coming. That effect is not as powerful as you claim.
 
I don't know what will outsell Macbooks. I'm just saying there's no way, if things stay where they are, that we'll see a future where ARM Macbooks will take over the market. We will see anyone else there BUT Apple.

Especially so considering Apple's lack of flexibility, price, and practices that discourage reselling of old products.
Nothing will, because laptops are declining in prevalence in the market and being replaced by smartphones and iPads.
 
People would buy it because there were two iMac sizes before. Now people just left Apple or it hurt their image with no word on a replacement. That’s far worse than what you state which would have no impact. People purchased the iMac Pro when they just said it was temporary. People purchased the Mac Studio even though the Mac Pro is coming. That effect is not as powerful as you claim.
Lot's of people said, they bought the Studio Display plus another Mac, precisely because there was no word on a large iMac coming. I myself bought the small iMac to replace a large one. If we were told, it's still coming but much later, we would all be waiting.
 
But the M1 iMac is NOT a 27” or 32”. It does nothing for the pros. So it’s a different product category.
Were these different product categories or were they the same product with different screen sizes?
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Do you think the 14” and 16” MacBook Pros are different product categories?
 
But the M1 iMac is NOT a 27” or 32”. It does nothing for the pros. So it’s a different product category.
Technically it is as the only difference between a 24" and a whatever" iMac is literally the screen size. They use the same processors and logic boards. So technically the iMac as a product category has transitioned to AS but the Mac Pro has not. The only thing they need to do for the larger iMac is design a shell, put a screen in it, and decide what AS processor it gets to fit comfortably between the 24 and Studio.

I still hold the 24 will get the M2, the larger will get the M3, and the Studio will get updated to the M3 Pro and Max
 
You can't do that because of the Osborne effect. People wouldn't buy the Studio Display or 24" iMac. And Steve Jobs loved secrecy. He always wanted to surprise customers and competition alike with his "one more thing", which you could buy right after its unveiling. Pre announcements are a very un-Apple thing to do.
The only good time to pre-announce a product is to undercut a competing manufacturer's product release and discourage people from jumping ship.
For example, Nikon pre-announces an upcoming camera a week before Canon releases a new camera model.

Apple is not in the same situation as it does not have direct competitors, not in the same sense.
 
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Technically it is as the only difference between a 24" and a whatever" iMac is literally the screen size. They use the same processors and logic boards. So technically the iMac as a product category has transitioned to AS but the Mac Pro has not. The only thing they need to do for the larger iMac is design a shell, put a screen in it, and decide what AS processor it gets to fit comfortably between the 24 and Studio.

I still hold the 24 will get the M2, the larger will get the M3, and the Studio will get updated to the M3 Pro and Max
I don't think the more powerful processor makes the iMac Pro a different product line because the top end 16" M1-Max MBP and base 14" M1-Pro MBP are the same product line.
 
There was a nasty bug in Vista at launch that messed up quite a few people's PC's, (breaking the partition table on the disk) but otherwise it was good. Windows 8 was the ugly one to me...

Vista's problem was that UAC wasn't fully baked and they were trying to hold onto a lot of legacy XP and earlier code that they didn't have the "courage" to drop until Windows 7 introduced "Windows XP Mode" so it was sluggish. Otherwise, it was totally an okay OS with most of what was good about both XP and 7 in its UI.

This is your opinion.
I have not heard a statement from Apple...🤔

You did. They discontinued the 27-inch iMac without replacement ON THE SAME DAY that they announced a Mac that was billed and marketed to be its replacement. Your lack of belief in reality doesn't make reality not real.

Yes but the i5/i7 mini is 'supposedly' being updated also, but wasn't mentioned.

No. It's being "REPLACED". Apple is religious about their price-points. Those will get dropped and some other form of headless Mac desktop will get slotted in there. It won't be another i5 or i7 mini. That's not how Apple works!

Of course, the iMac already transitioned to the "Mac lineup with Apple Silicon" (I'm typing on one). Which leaves the Mac Pro as the only Mac without Apple Silicon. But that doesn't mean we're forever fixed on the current screen sizes.

No, but it means that anyone holding out hope on another 27-inch iMac effectively will be doing so indefinitely. Apple was very clear that the Mac Studio + Studio Display combo IS the new 27-inch iMac. Anyone not seeing this is being stubbornly ignorant and not reading between very obvious lines.

What about the rumored 15" MacBook Air. Do you believe it will never come, because he said "only one more product" to go?

The 15-inch MacBook Air is not replacing an Intel model. "Only one more product to go" referred explicitly to Intel Macs making the transition to Apple Silicon.

Not sure I would agree. I have a 10th-gen 6-core i5 iMac with all the specs you mentioned (except I bought it with 16GB of RAM... and then upgraded it first to 64GB and now to 128GB. Web browsers love being fed their RAM...), 10G Ethernet (a bit of future-proofing in the event that home-grade 10GbE switches ever become a possibility). It is an absolutely great machine. Was quite great with 16GB of RAM too. And that machine cost me $1850 CAD as a refurb - $150CAD less than a Studio Display.

You can't move part of the goal-post without moving the other. You bought this machine as a refurb. Compare that to a refurbished Apple Studio Display. Will it still be close? Sure. But (a) not the same and (b) an Apple Studio Display doesn't lose its ability to be a display when the computer it's attached to dies. Your iMac will.

Funny thing, I never considered buying one before the Mac Studio came out. Always wanted a Mac desktop with a retina screen. Looked at the pricing, was like, "well, I really should get myself at least an i7, is 512GB of SSD enough, oh, and there's that GPU upgrade, the keyboard with a numeric keyboard, etc" and it always came out to $4000CAD. So I held off especially with the rumours of Apple silicon growing. Then Mac Studio comes out, the price tag skyrockets (my dream 27" Intel iMac would have been $4000ish CAD, my dream Mac Studio is at least $1500 more), etc. Then I figured, well you know what, rather than get my dream Mac that I'll keep for 7 years, why not get something 'good enough' that will serve me until the end of macOS Intel support (and hopefully a newer/fancier/etc retina monitor)? And it's been absolutely fantastic! Despite 256 gigs of storage (would have preferred 512, but there weren't any with 10GbE on the refurb store the day I saw this model), the basic Magic Keyboard without the numeric keypad (this is supposed to be a value project... so... no, not spending $169CAD on a separate keyboard), the i5, etc.

Is it a gaming beast? Probably not... and with only 256 gigs of SSD, I don't really want to try. Am I going to run 20 VMs in Parallels? Well, I have the RAM for it... but not the storage, unless I run the VMs from my NAS I guess. (Then again, I can't run any VMs with any useful guests on Apple silicon) But for random productivity tasks, watching videos, etc it's great - if I had to go and live in a dorm room for six months with only one computer, I would probably take it and leave my M1 Max MBP and big-somewhat-dated Windows desktop behind.

Maybe, maybe I would have been happyish with an M1 Mac mini and a studio display. Not sure how it would compare, except for the absurdly low RAM limitations. Would certainly have cost $1500CAD more (though okay, some of that is the refurb savings). But this iMac, for a cheap impulse refurb purchase, has been utterly wonderful.

I'm not trying to downplay the merit of an iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2020). I bought one refurbed as well about six months ago. The thing is formidable in ways that ANY Mac Studio won't be (when it comes to x86 gaming and x86-64 virtualization). I'm just saying that, for those that would've paid 32GB for Apple RAM and 512GB of SSD onto said iMac would be paying the same as someone who ordered that Mac Studio and accompanying display. The Mac Studio IS the Apple Silicon successor to the 27-inch iMac. But, for those configurations where you only have 8GB or 16GB of SSD, the Mac mini paired with the Studio Display comes close (albeit isn't as closely priced of a combo to the base model i5 version of the 2020 27-inch iMac).

(Oh, and one other thing - when you are thinking about pricing, don't forget that iMacs come with basic Apple wireless keyboards and a magic mouse. If you custom-ordered one, you could upgrade to the extended keyboard, the magic trackpad, etc by paying the difference. Mac Studios come with nothing, so add like $240 CAD just to match the iMac's included input peripherals.)

I'm pretty sure that the keyboard you had on that iMac isn't sold anymore. Incidentally, cheapest keyboard and Magic Mouse, while an additional cost, isn't THAT MUCH relative to the cost differential, if anything. Furthermore, the M1 Max Mac Studio can run rings around the 2020 27-inch iMac and even overpower a Mac Pro; if we're talking about a difference between $240 CAD, that's within the amount Apple usually charges when putting out next generation stuff. MacBook Pros, iPad Airs, the 6th Gen iPad mini, iPhone 12, and many others were priced higher than their predecessors when making a big generational bump. That's not unheard of. And even still, my point is that it's well within the ballpark of the predecessor product to directly infer that one is the replacement of the other.

Were these different product categories or were they the same product with different screen sizes?
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Do you think the 14” and 16” MacBook Pros are different product categories?

Same product with different screen sizes (albeit better options the bigger you got). The same is true of the 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pros as well. You didn't have quite as much of this in the Intel era because Apple kept trying to shrink the thermal envelopes of Intel Macs to the point where you really couldn't fit a good discrete GPU on a 13-inch Intel MacBook Pro in the way that you could on a 15/16/17-inch one and you really couldn't beef up a 21.5" iMac with the faster processor and heftier graphics that you'd find in a 27-inch MacBook Pro. In the Apple Silicon era, we've more or less returned to the PowerPC era of "mostly the same machines, just different form factor and higher-end options on the larger one with lower-end options on the smaller one".
 
I regard all Intel Macs as useless, worth $0 to me. But I’d be willing to put up with that, if I liked the display and form factor. The resale value of iMacs 2014-2020 is entirely the display.

That's (a) your opinion and (b) not rooted in fact, nor (c) how the used Mac market works AT ALL. Maybe that's how you view the Intel iMacs, but that's not how they are valued in the used market, despite you not feeling that way.

The Studio Display is a stopgap until the new large iMac. It’s not a forever replacement.

Apple's marketing strategy clearly begs to differ with you here.

Intel used to be half of the industry dominating WINTEL monopoly.

Okay. Lots to unpack here. For one, the words "half" and "monopoly" are inherently in conflict with one another in your sentence. Also, "WINTEL" isn't a monopoly. Mac and Windows are a duopoly. Intel hasn't ever been a monopoly when it comes to PC hardware. AMD has always been there and, in much earlier times, you even had other x86 processors out there too. What happened now is fairly similar to what happened to Intel during the Pentium 4 era. It isn't the end of Intel. It's the end of a lot of businesses that Intel hadn't fully invested in, but not the processor market.

You couldn’t build a computer without paying them.

Unless you're talking about x86 royalty fees, you're completely wrong here.

Now it isn’t even present on smartphones and tablets, the most prevalent kind of computers.

ARM isn't what Intel specializes in. Never has been. That's like saying that Toyota is a horrible computer company.


Even without the competition of AMD and AS in the ever shrinking PC sub-market, it is a dying company.

Losing Apple as a customer doesn't a dying company make. AMD is kicking Intel's ass right now because Intel got complacent and let too much slide. They're rectifying that and will probably be back in action (for everyone but Apple) just as they've always been. The war between AMD and Intel has been on-going for the last 35 years. It's not about to end now just because AMD is currently kicking Intel's ass.


And ignoring that means extinction is guaranteed.

They are not ignoring it. You, however, are ignoring what has been happening over at Intel since Apple announced they were dropping Intel.

You mean, those who "just work™".

Yes. IT buys PC hardware that just works. Because THEY HAVE TO. If an IT department buys any kind of computer that doesn't work, then they have to spend much more money in man hours trying to resolve issues. So, they turn to Dell Latitude (not Inspiron), HP EliteBook (not Laptop), and Lenovo ThinkPad (not IdeaPad) because those are business class computers that won't give them or their users any grief whatsoever. And if/when a bad model is purchased, it's usually replaced with a more reliable one. That's how things work in IT.

Windows, that’s what sucks on PCs.

That's just your opinion, man.

I've had nothing but stability and hassle-free experiences on every Windows 10 and Windows 11 PC that I've set up for myself and for others both in and out of work in the past 7 years. In the past 7 years, I've had to deal with the dumpster fires that is macOS High Sierra, macOS Catalina, macOS Monterey, the butterfly keyboards, and the nonsense that is the T2 chip. And you say Windows is better? That's...Apple loyalty taken to the next level right there! 🤣



Aesthetics and stability are the same.

Oh? If you believe that, then I may have a class action lawsuit's worth of butterfly keyboards to sell you. 🤣

Things look good, if they work good.

Do tell me more about how great the 2013 Mac Pro was for Pro users. Or about how Apple's thinnest MacBook Pros were their best. Your take on form over function is so disconnected from reality that it brings me genuine and legitimate amusement!

Aircraft engineers say: "A beautiful aircraft flies best."

That's not how engineering works.

If the wings look too small to carry the plane, they probably are!

While probably true, that's still not how engineering works.

People who buy Apple Silicon Macs.

No, I buy Apple Silicon Macs AND PCs. If Apple's releases are less stable and more buggy than Microsoft's (which IS the case these days, on average), the shiny exterior won't mean crap to me; I'll still kvetch about Apple and not Microsoft who would be providing me the more stable and smoother running desktop computing environment. Plenty of Mac users only care about how sleek the computer is. To suggest that ALL of us are that way is an insult to those of us who aren't that way (even if you ARE that way).

I find that Apple has yet to release a bad AS Mac. They all run amazing!
Apple has two kinds of M1 MacBook Air, two kinds of M2 MacBook Air, one kind of M1 13-inch MacBook Pro, three kinds of M1 Pro/Max 14-inch MacBook Pro, two kinds of M1 Pro/Max 16-inch MacBook Pro, two kinds of Mac Studio, one kind of M1 Mac mini, and two kinds of M1 iMac. Do the math and that's 15 different possible Apple Silicon Macs. Are you telling me that you've used them all? And for what tasks are you using them for. When the world revolves around you and your perceptions, that kind of hot take is one thing. But, there are definitely Apple Silicon Macs that (a) are better than others, (b) run cooler than others, (c) have better battery life than others, and lastly (but not leastly) (d) are better suited to certain workloads than others. Your statements here are loaded at best.
 
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Apple was very clear that the Mac Studio + Studio Display combo IS the new 27-inch iMac. Anyone not seeing this is being stubbornly ignorant and not reading between very obvious lines.
No, they said the 27-inch iMac was discontinued and suggested the Stupid Display as a replacement. But both statements came only upon inquiry by journalists. Which suggest that this is their stopgap solution for now and not forever. Anyway it doesn’t matter. I’d never pay $1,599 for only a display. They’ve got to build a large iMac again!
 
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That's (a) your opinion and (b) not rooted in fact, nor (c) how the used Mac market works AT ALL. Maybe that's how you view the Intel iMacs, but that's not how they are valued in the used market, despite you not feeling that way.
I know, the market has got it all wrong! Sellers always want to recoup a certain percentage of what they once paid for the machine. But the entry-level M1 iMac rivals in performance with the top-of-the-line i9 iMac of one year before. Their used market value should be about the same, but it's actually $1000 more for the older outdated machine. That's completely nuts!

Tomorrow January 6th it will be +10°C in Berlin and −23°C in Moscow. If I'd lived in the Arctic and Global Warming wasn't real, I'd actual consider the Intel iMac. But this will be another hottest year since beginning of the weather records in 1677 and a cooler running iMac will serve me better throughout the year.

ARM isn't what Intel specializes in. Never has been.
And that's why Intel is on its way from irrelevancy to bankruptcy. There are twice as many tablets and four times as many laptops sold each year than desktop PCs. Everything relevant in personal computing happens on battery-powered devices. Why do you thing TSMC is so many process nodes ahead of Intel? Because only who's making ARM-chips for the iPhone earns enough profits to invest $100bn in new factories. Intels fall from grace happened in the past, from 2007 onwards. No rivalry with AMD will ever make up for missing out on the rise of smartphones.

 
And that's why Intel is on its way from irrelevancy to bankruptcy.
One thing is for sure, I would not take any investing advice for you. You did after all say that Microsoft is a tiny weak company - you know that 2 trillion dollar company you think is tiny and weak Now you're saying that intel is going bankrupt. :oops:

Don't let facts get in the way of your over the top hyperbole and hatred for anything non-apple

Microsoft is a tiny weak company
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One thing is for sure, I would not take any investing advice for you.
I wouldn't either. I bought Apple stock in 2008, because I thought the iPhone would become a resounding success. The market thought the stock had already risen too much and tanked. I lost as much as I had won before and stopped trading. If I had enough spare money for multi-decade investments, I'd know how to stay rich forever. Some obvious megatrends like ARM and TSMC have long been in the making. Ask Warren Buffet!
You did after all say that Microsoft is a tiny weak company - you know that 2 trillion dollar company you think is tiny and weak. Now you're saying that intel is going bankrupt. :oops:
I don't think I said it's tiny, but definitely weak and unimportant.
 
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I don't think so, when I travel, I see more people at the airport with laptops, hotels, people are sitting with their laptops. Coffee shops, yep you guessed it. Laptops.

Also this:
Apple Sees Falling iPad Sales in Fiscal 2022, But Mac Sales Up
Well, at airports and hotels, those people are probably doing work. And work is not easily understood by most people as capable of being done on a tablet.

Coffee shops, same thing. Probably work. Easier to do on a laptop.

What're people doing in bars and restaurants? What about laying on the couch? What about over at a friend's house, visiting? At a party? On the bus or train?

And then think about the reason those people are there, the CONTEXT. Are the people who go to Starbucks and stay a while with their laptop doing so out of necessity or some sort of lifestyle? I can make Starbucks coffee in my Keurig at home and not have to get dressed.

As for the airport, are those people traveling alone or with family? Alone might mean it is a business trip.

Are laptops outselling smartphones?
 
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