I cannot stand the pixel doubling on the retina!

[bill-p]

13.0.3. Unfortunately, it doesn't snap the cursors under screenshot. Just choose any brush, enlarge it, or go to the gradient tool. The "+" is very pixelated, as well as the gradient examples in the "Editor" panel.

For the brushes, I've noticed that if I zoom in to the canvas, then the cursor also zooms in respectively. When drawing, it does give a fairly accurate representation of what I should expect to see.

It's not like I'm dealing with vector graphics in Photoshop, so I think the behavior of the brush is intentional.

As for the plus sign (crosshair), I don't think it's pixelated. I think they've done their best to make sure it's visible. If they made it any sharper than what it is, it'd be impossible to see.

The gradient samples in the editor are indeed pixelated, but do you really need to nitpick those? I had to put my eyes literally within 2 inches in front of the screen to see that it's pixelated.

No, iTunes 11 artwork in the dropdown is still very much pixel-y, refer to here.

Anywhere else? Because it's just that small part that I'm seeing the pixelation, and it's not everywhere.

And honestly, if you'd just set the resolution to either 1680 x 1050 scaled or 1920 x 1200 scaled, then you wouldn't notice any of that. If you have such good eyesight that you can see pixelation from pixel doubling, then you should be able to work at 1920 x 1200 just fine.

 

[M5RahuL]

What bill-p said, or go a step further and set it to it's native resolution [ 1:1 ratio ] at 2880 x 1800. I can't recall the software that does this... maybe someone can chime in with it's name!

I'm not a Graphics Designer so my eyes are not so discriminating and everything on my rMBP looks super!! well except these smiley icons ==>

 

[Krevnik]

Anywhere else? Because it's just that small part that I'm seeing the pixelation, and it's not everywhere.

And honestly, if you'd just set the resolution to either 1680 x 1050 scaled or 1920 x 1200 scaled, then you wouldn't notice any of that. If you have such good eyesight that you can see pixelation from pixel doubling, then you should be able to work at 1920 x 1200 just fine.

The PPI on the rMBP is only around 220. There will still be noticeable pixelation on some elements, especially those with fine detail that can't be resolved properly at 220 PPI (sidebar icons being the obvious ones). The problem here is that the blown up shots posted in this thread are pixel-doubled, so it looks a lot worse than it is. I can't make out the pixelation in the UI unless I get up close to the screen itself. The images are certainly HiDPI, but the rMBP has the lowest PPI of any Apple device with the "Retina" label.

 

[bill-p]

The PPI on the rMBP is only around 220. There will still be noticeable pixelation on some elements, especially those with fine detail that can't be resolved properly at 220 PPI (sidebar icons being the obvious ones). The problem here is that the blown up shots posted in this thread are pixel-doubled, so it looks a lot worse than it is. I can't make out the pixelation in the UI unless I get up close to the screen itself. The images are certainly HiDPI, but the rMBP has the lowest PPI of any Apple device with the "Retina" label.

I do have a Retina MacBook Pro, so I know what I'm seeing.

220ppi is actually a lot because average viewing distance is typically at least 18 - 24 inches away. Most often more. And yeah, I actually took a ruler and measured that.

I hold my iPhone and iPad only about 6-10 inches away, so those devices need higher pixel density for me, but my MacBook? I can hardly discern individual pixels at "Best For Retina" (1440 x 900), much less at 1680 x 1050 or 1920 x 1200 pixel doubled.

Even if it's possible for someone to see individual pixels at those distances, the Retina display is still significantly sharper than the regular machine. And even if we disregard all of that, the Retina screen still has better viewing angle, and better color reproduction. That's why someone preferring the regular display over a Retina display just really... baffles me.

 

[Ccrew]

How do webpages know if you are running HiDPI or 1:1?

A site can be coded to poll the machine programmatically for it's capabilities and the browser will return it back in the HTTP header. Same way most sites detect what browser you're running and look at the browser and version to determine if desktop or mobile, Chrome or Safari, and so on.

 

[skysailing]

uhm...can't you turn that off in settings and have it be like 1680 or 1440 or some shiz?

 

[Ploki]

A site can be coded to poll the machine programmatically for it's capabilities and the browser will return it back in the HTTP header. Same way most sites detect what browser you're running and look at the browser and version to determine if desktop or mobile, Chrome or Safari, and so on.

That I know, but mostly (afaik) they can recall only browser type (webkit,mozilla,ie) and window size by pixels.

Wouldn't all browsers need to be updated to have a new call for HiDPI mode? I don't know how is it handled on iphones and ipads. (retina versions)

 

[Ccrew]

That I know, but mostly (afaik) they can recall only browser type (webkit,mozilla,ie) and window size by pixels.

Wouldn't all browsers need to be updated to have a new call for HiDPI mode? I don't know how is it handled on iphones and ipads. (retina versions)

Best bet is to use java/webkit to do the lifting. Essentially query the remote machine and use -webkit-min-device-pixel-ratio for the time being to keep things simple. You could use a more complete query that would include the Mozilla min--moz-device-pixel-ratio and Opera -o-min-device-pixel-ratio variants of the hopefully soon standard min-device-pixel-ratio media query.

And now that MS is out with IE10 we get: -ms-min-device-pixel-ratio: 2

Or you can play in CSS. Good example here:

http://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/retina-display-media-query/

 

[revenent]

I just purchased my Retina 15" a few days ago. Dropping the extra $1,000, I thought it'd be worth it. Clearly I was wrong. I thought it would be worth it knowing Photoshop was officially Retina optimized (not ENTIRELY, cursors & gradient preset examples are very pixelated), it was an IPS panel which helps significantly with color banding and better color reproduction, but I don't think this is worth it. Where everything looks half better, the other half looks a lot worse. I couldn't stand the color banding on my 15" MBP due to being a graphic/web designer, but having everything pixel doubled is just annoying. I realize half the apps are not optimized for this display, but not ALL developers will update their apps. I doubt that GoDaddy.com will be Retina optimized ever and all the little websites I use. YouTube looks extremely blurry as well as other videos using Flash. Even iTunes and GarageBand aren't updated and this model has been out for half a year. I think I can deal with the slight color banding and non-crystal sharp text on my previous MBP if that means no more pixel doubling and a pleasant web experience. At least I will be able to download an app without fear of seeing blurry and pixelated images since I know everything will be displayed at a 1:1 ratio. I'm just not sure what to do. I have till January 3rd to return this. What are your thoughts?

I do not know what is the point of this but if it is really bothering you a lot, just return it since you still have the option to. And of course, do proper research on the next product you are going to be purchasing because not all companies or products provide returns.

 

[unobtainium]

Re. iTunes 11, it sounds like you're saying the album art is pixelated. There's nothing Apple can really do about that though, if it's album art you downloaded from somewhere...all the other UI elements look completely retina to me.

 

[Ploki]

he speaks of the album graphics of course.
I can understand him.

When the iPhone4 came out it even annoyed me going back to the normal laptop screen. Non-retina apps on the iphone were just an eyesore compared to everything else.

Best bet is to use java/webkit to do the lifting. Essentially query the remote machine and use -webkit-min-device-pixel-ratio for the time being to keep things simple. You could use a more complete query that would include the Mozilla min--moz-device-pixel-ratio and Opera -o-min-device-pixel-ratio variants of the hopefully soon standard min-device-pixel-ratio media query.

And now that MS is out with IE10 we get: -ms-min-device-pixel-ratio: 2

Or you can play in CSS. Good example here:

http://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/retina-display-media-query/

Aaah! thanks. How are the bitmaps handled?

 

[yinz]

I just purchased my Retina 15" a few days ago. Dropping the extra $1,000, I thought it'd be worth it. Clearly I was wrong. I thought it would be worth it knowing Photoshop was officially Retina optimized (not ENTIRELY, cursors & gradient preset examples are very pixelated), it was an IPS panel which helps significantly with color banding and better color reproduction, but I don't think this is worth it. Where everything looks half better, the other half looks a lot worse. I couldn't stand the color banding on my 15" MBP due to being a graphic/web designer, but having everything pixel doubled is just annoying. I realize half the apps are not optimized for this display, but not ALL developers will update their apps. I doubt that GoDaddy.com will be Retina optimized ever and all the little websites I use. YouTube looks extremely blurry as well as other videos using Flash. Even iTunes and GarageBand aren't updated and this model has been out for half a year. I think I can deal with the slight color banding and non-crystal sharp text on my previous MBP if that means no more pixel doubling and a pleasant web experience. At least I will be able to download an app without fear of seeing blurry and pixelated images since I know everything will be displayed at a 1:1 ratio. I'm just not sure what to do. I have till January 3rd to return this. What are your thoughts?

Well, the MacBook Pro with Retina display is before its time. If you don't like it, you should definitely return it.

 

[scenox]

What bill-p said, or go a step further and set it to it's native resolution [ 1:1 ratio ] at 2880 x 1800. I can't recall the software that does this... maybe someone can chime in with it's name!

Retina DisplayMenu
www.phoenix-dev.com

 

[Blue604]

I just purchased my Retina 15" a few days ago. Dropping the extra $1,000, I thought it'd be worth it. Clearly I was wrong. I thought it would be worth it knowing Photoshop was officially Retina optimized (not ENTIRELY, cursors & gradient preset examples are very pixelated), it was an IPS panel which helps significantly with color banding and better color reproduction, but I don't think this is worth it. Where everything looks half better, the other half looks a lot worse. I couldn't stand the color banding on my 15" MBP due to being a graphic/web designer, but having everything pixel doubled is just annoying. I realize half the apps are not optimized for this display, but not ALL developers will update their apps. I doubt that GoDaddy.com will be Retina optimized ever and all the little websites I use. YouTube looks extremely blurry as well as other videos using Flash. Even iTunes and GarageBand aren't updated and this model has been out for half a year. I think I can deal with the slight color banding and non-crystal sharp text on my previous MBP if that means no more pixel doubling and a pleasant web experience. At least I will be able to download an app without fear of seeing blurry and pixelated images since I know everything will be displayed at a 1:1 ratio. I'm just not sure what to do. I have till January 3rd to return this. What are your thoughts?

Why don't you just get a Dell?

 

[Krevnik]

I hold my iPhone and iPad only about 6-10 inches away, so those devices need higher pixel density for me, but my MacBook? I can hardly discern individual pixels at "Best For Retina" (1440 x 900), much less at 1680 x 1050 or 1920 x 1200 pixel doubled.

This second sentence doesn't make a ton of sense. The display has the same number of pixels, no matter how big the canvas is that the system is using. So of course you won't discern individual pixels easily in any of the modes. Unless something is pixel doubling when you are at "1440x900", or the detail of the art is beyond the pixel density of the display, which I suspect is the case with sidebar icons used in iTunes.

I can see the pixelation of the sidebar icons, but it's nothing like the pixelation on my 27" display hooked up to the Mac Pro which is at ~110 PPI.

Even if it's possible for someone to see individual pixels at those distances, the Retina display is still significantly sharper than the regular machine. And even if we disregard all of that, the Retina screen still has better viewing angle, and better color reproduction. That's why someone preferring the regular display over a Retina display just really... baffles me.

I'm not disagreeing, but what I am trying to point out is that seeing a bit more pixelation on an rMBP over an iPad or iPhone is expected. And that the screenshots we see in the thread are pixel-doubled by the forum, and so are a terrible way to compare. If you zoom in 200% on anything you'll reveal pixelation in artwork with fine detail.

Hell, I am not giving up my rMBP for something with a lower pixel density.

 

[curtisvadnais]

I would also like to note that the Retina MacBook Pro has the most INFERIOR iSight image quality that I have EVER seen on a Mac. Looks more like VGA than 720p to me.