I couldnt wait any longer.. went with Vista

We've found Vista to be almost unusable in a production environment (3D design and video production). Even the new Dell workstations that came with Vista are now running Windows XP. Wiping Vista and installing XP fixed all the issues we were having on the PC side.

Indeed, after running Maya Unlimited on Vista for a little while, I can say that for the first time in history, OS X runs Maya better than Windows. :D
 
You should of waited at least till June. You will be dissapointed. Especially when you see what Vista is really like. All the guys at work just piss and moan about it all the time while I sit happily on my iMac. :D

Agreed... I do development on Vista, and I get sick and tired of being asked /3/ times if I really, really, really, want to download that tool from my company's internal websites and install it. I can get it down to two if I turn UAC off, but the software needs to work right with UAC on, so I leave it on. :/

It isn't much different from XP when you go to use it... but it nags the bejessus out of you while you work. The whole OSes as cars analogy needs reworking:

"Vista will get you where you need to go, but will randomly stop every hundred feet and ask you if you want to keep driving, citing the risk you will crash and die."

If you must go back to Windows, go back to XP as well if you want to get work done. :/
 
Congrats on the machine, looks like it has some great specs. You should've dumped Vista for Ubuntu though ;)
I was going to say the same thing. :)

Since the OP is obviously enlightened enough to not jump on the MS bandwagon whole hog, he really should have looked into Linux. It is absolutely possible to use Linux and open source software for quite a bit of useful work, including video editing.

My current setup is an ASUS Z84JP laptop. I run Kubuntu Feisty Fawn (the new release) and the Cinelerra open source video editing software. I'm by no means an expert yet, but it is obviously powerful enough to do everything I need. It supports quite a few media formats and resolutions. It runs great on my C2D T7400 and 2GB RAM.

Background: I'm similar to the OP in a way. I had a PowerBook 17" but wanted to sell it before leaving Ecuador, where I had been for a while. I had been planning to buy a MacBook Pro 17". But I needed it no later than early March, and the thought of paying more for Leopard shortly bugged the heck out of me. It was then that I thought along the lines of a PC laptop with Linux.

Currently, I'm pleased as punch with it. Fantastic laptop. I may re-join the Mac fold by getting an iMac sometime after the release of Leopard. We'll see ...
 
If you must go back to Windows, go back to XP as well if you want to get work done. :/

I think these are all fair points, albeit ones that tend to get smoothed out after a few months. I remember that this theme came up prominently during multiple past major revisions to Office. The new Office drove people crazy. After a couple months, some judicious changes to default settings, etc, the problems of this kind went away.

Much also like how, with Internet Explorer versions of the past, it was much more difficult than with Safari or Firefox to get rid of useless warning dialogs, but you could do so. After a couple of days, it tended to smooth over for the most part.
 
Indeed, good luck with the PC. I really hate that Apple hardware inevitably costs more with fewer options, and I understand the enormous mini-macpro gap would make many folks just build their own damn box for less.

And the truth is, it'll be faster. Sure, for $500 more you could have had a mac pro, but then again you'd have the lowly 7300gt and 1gb of uber-expensive ram, only 1 HDD etc., all for more money.

Although I'm pretty thoroughly a mac guy these days, I can't help but keep a self-designed 'backup' pc or two around at all times. Mainly I just keep them packed with HDDs as servers and backup since most macs have no room for any expansion, but it's also useful to have another pc around if one's out of commission, being used by someone else or just busy working hard on some task. I've tooled around with linux distros on them, but i also keep a windows computer around for compatibility with my GPS and random other things.

Gave Vista a shot a while ago, but i never got the integrated nvidia graphics drivers to stop scrambling the screen, itunes was junk, and some of the programs I use aren't (and probably won't ever be since they're legacy) compatible with vista. I have a 64 bit processor but I tried 32 because tons of programs drivers etc. aren't ready for 64 (itunes doesn't run at all at this point). I didn't buy it, just used the free trial period, but if i was buying a new windows OS right now it'd be a tough call. I'd hate wasting money on XP when i'd want to upgrade in a year or so, but right now it's hit or miss with vista; some people will love it, while others will have nothing but headaches.

Mac has advantages in their hardware-software integration, few driver, virus, malware issues, better OS overall etc, but some folks will always prefer getting more hardware with their dime and dealing with a lesser OS. Can't blame most of 'em, especially folks looking for a general duty super-cheap machine ($500 laptop/$400 desktop) or a mid-high end headless desktop ($1100-1700 with good graphics, 2+gb ram). I almost always suggest a mac to friends and family asking for advice, but depending on their exact budget and needs I often have to admit there's nothing in the line for them.

this is getting lengthy, but here's a few quick examples of people I couldn't justify a mac for:

Doctor uncle: IT is all windows at his hospital, would be a liability if IT couldn't help him with issues.

Executive boss: needs extremely portable option that accepts our company sprint pcmcia cards; macbook is too large and has no such slot.

Family: a low imac would have been perfect, but their budget was very strict at under $500. I tried to sell them on a mini, but they have ~200gb of photos so they'd also need an external HDD as well as a superdrive to burn backup dvds, just too much $. They got a great dual core AMD Dell with 1gb ram and a 400gb HDD for $400...it's ugly but XP runs well and when I visit they get a free support, a virus/malware scan and any updates they didn't know about (joy).

Crazy ex: a law student, I thought a macbook would be perfect, but she needs to run some sort of windows only law related programs. She loved the macbook and the idea of parallels, but the decently outfitted macbook plus parallels and windows ran up to $1580, too much for a poor student. She got a $1000 dell ultraportable of some sort, pretty slow but she doesn't need speed and the battery lasts 8+ hours. I also helped her install a $20 sound card and 500gb HDD in her old desktop so she can record howard stern while she's at class and travelling (great windows program called cybercorder for scheduled recording, although i'm sure there's one for mac as well).

Sister: still in college, had a $500 HP laptop until a certain fitness water 'propelled' it to an early grave. I suggested a macbook, but her budget is just too tight and she liked the HP (because i'm the one who disassembled it to install wireless, kept it free of viruses when i visited etc). Luckily I was able to use her birthday to gift her the difference between a refurb macbook and the $550 HP she was going to buy, but the reality exists that a sub $1k would be very helpful in bringing in converts.

oh man that was long, sorry bout that
 
Are you saying Apple never release "critical updates" ?

I think "critical" meaning "in order to make your program or system work instead of crash"

I had to do that with some editing software on the PC - wouldn't work at all until you did an update...

Apple releases software updates.
I don't believe I've seen the word "critical" tossed around with OSX updates nowhere near as often as it is with "Windows" or "Microsoft". I can't recall ever seeing an OSX update as "critical" but then again I could be wrong.

Having been using Windows Millennium Edition for 6.5 years I think i'm qualified to say that is certainly true, however, I don't think it is with Windows XP.

Oh yeah, XP has plenty of Critical updates. Around 60 of 'em on a fresh install of XP SP2. Hope you've got broadband, bro. :D

Hell, IE7 was supposed to end the "critical update" notion, but they've had criticals for it as well. :rolleyes:
 
Is this the mentality of fence sitting switchers these days?
"I don't want to pay for the Mac Pro so I'll either complain about the other Apple desktops being underpowered or I'll just build a Windows box and tell myself I'm saving money." :rolleyes:

FWIW - you paid $1500 for a desktop that runs Vista when you could've gotten a refurb Mac Pro for not too much more.


Wait wait wait a second... that is a wacko comment.. Why in gods name does it make more sense to buy a used mac pro for 1500 when I could build something that will perform pretty darn close to a duel core xeon... for 1500 LESS.. For what... so I can say I own a Mac? Rendering time with a Q6600 vs a 4 year old Mac Pro isnt even comparable.. so come on... lets stop this nonsence of "buy a mac at all costs".. please.. its a stupid argument and if you beleive it.. then Steve has got you by the naggies..
 
Wait wait wait a second... that is a wacko comment.. Why in gods name does it make more sense to buy a used mac pro for 1500 when I could build something that will perform pretty darn close to a duel core xeon... for 1500 LESS.. For what... so I can say I own a Mac? Rendering time with a Q6600 vs a 4 year old Mac Pro isnt even comparable.. so come on... lets stop this nonsence of "buy a mac at all costs".. please.. its a stupid argument and if you beleive it.. then Steve has got you by the naggies..

just two things.

1. i don't think the cores duel, even xeons.
2. since when is the Mac Pro 4 years old?
 
LOL.. yeah I know.. I got all wacky and lost my head and apparently ability to spell... Hey, lots of good comments.. beleive me.. I wish Apple had something anyone one of those 19 Tuesday mornings that I would check in at 5am.. even refurbished.. when I checked Sunday, Monday and this morning, the page had nothing!! Lets face it.. the mac mini is a great little machine.. but its a laptop in a box.. no GPU, no core 2 duo... The imac is nice but I wanted a vesa mount.. and hey.. I can go on but Macs OS is great but the hardware in my opinion isnt a value today.. maybe next week, maybe next month.. but right now, I dont think so. And when you have a 6 yr old pentium sitting on the floor with the left cover leaning against it and its pushed to the wall holding in the ga cable and if it moves an inch my display goes blank.. then every tuesdya at 5:01am get more and more painful.. oh well.. see ya in 3 to 5.. until then STAY COOL EVERYONE.. I'LL BE BACK!
 
Wait wait wait a second... that is a wacko comment.. Why in gods name does it make more sense to buy a used mac pro for 1500 when I could build something that will perform pretty darn close to a duel core xeon... for 1500 LESS..

2.66 Mac Pros refurb are $2199, I think the 2.0s are $1999. I said "a little more than $1500", I didn't say "$1500" and I didn't say "$3000". But I'm the one with the 'wacko' comment. :rolleyes:

BTW - Mac Pro low end = 2 dual core Xeons.

Rendering time with a Q6600 vs a 4 year old Mac Pro isnt even comparable.. so come on... lets stop this nonsence of "buy a mac at all costs".. please.. its a stupid argument and if you beleive it.. then Steve has got you by the naggies..

1) Mac Pros aren't even 1 yr old yet, get your facts straight
2) "Buy a Mac at all costs", where do you come up with this, eh? I said buy a Mac for a little more and get a much better OS which is FACT.

Enjoy Vista...see you on the flip side once you're sick of it and looking to sell your PC at bargain basement prices to come join the dark side. :p
 
Is this the mentality of fence sitting switchers these days?
"I don't want to pay for the Mac Pro so I'll either complain about the other Apple desktops being underpowered or I'll just build a Windows box and tell myself I'm saving money." :rolleyes:

Enjoy your PC man. :eek:
I'll gladly pay the extra money for a Mac Pro just so I don't ever have to bother with critical updates, virus definitions, and spyware updates ever again.

FWIW - you paid $1500 for a desktop that runs Vista when you could've gotten a refurb Mac Pro for not too much more.


I have to agree that this is a bit of a ridiculous statement. A Mac Pro REFURB is $700 more than this machine, has crappy video, and slower more expensive RAM. I'm sorry, but if this is what defending Macs has come to, count me out. I own the Mac Pro, but I bought it NINE months ago when it was a much better value. If this is what the OP can buy for $1500 then I don't think he made a mistake. OSX is great and all, but windows does have its advantages as well.

OP, if you're looking for some killer software for the PC just go with CS3 in july when Premiere and After Effects are released.
 
Apple wants us to justify paying $1000 more ($700 if you go refurb) to get weaker hardware. Now THAT is a double edged sword.
 
Apple wants us to justify paying $1000 more ($700 if you go refurb) to get weaker hardware. Now THAT is a double edged sword.


Unfortunately, since Apple is posting record profits, the speed of hardware updates is not likely something they are going to improve upon. Hey, why would you... nice racket. Month by month you keep your prices the same and your costs go down $$ win win eh? :)
 
Apple wants us to justify paying $1000 more ($700 if you go refurb) to get weaker hardware. Now THAT is a double edged sword.

If you actually spec up a Dell that is comparable to the Mac Pro, you will find that it costs more, not $700 less. The OP put together a cheap box and made it less, hardly the same thing. Apple isn't in the business of competing with people who build their own computers, so they don't "want" anything like your quote.
 
Are you suggesting that Apple doesn't want my business? Or the OPs business? Or any of the other millions out there who think the same way?

Dell may charge more than Apple for a Mac Pro equivalent, but Dell offers coupons making it cheaper than the Apple, offers better video options, and upgraded to the quad core chips last november.

Dell ALSO offers non professional systems at more reasonable prices, similar to the ones we are discussing now.

I'm not suggesting that Apple is over-charging when it comes to the Mac Pro, even though they are overcharging on the Mac Mini, iMac, MacBook Pro, RAM, Hardrives, Monitors, etc. What I am suggesting is that the computer that the OP has built is a much better value to the much much much more expensive Mac Pro.

OSX is a great operating system and Final Cut is great too, but windows boxes have many benefits that I think a lot of you guys here are not only choosing to ignore, but actually demean. Being able to buy a machine that performs similarly to, if not better than a Mac Pro for $1000 less is a BIG deal. To demean the OP for doing what he has done is similar to demeaning him for not choosing to pay double the price for his RAM from the Apple website.
 
The Apple logo tax has been a fact of life for a long time. They make their money on the hardware.
 
Why didn't you just get a Mac and run Vista on it until Leopard comes out? You couldn't wait a month for new hardware? I have a home built PC and a G5 iMac I bought on the cheap. Guess which one I use more. Vista was unbearable for me. I had to upgrade to XP, and still wish I was back on 2000, but to each his own I guess.

I do wish Apple had a cheaper low end desktop, but they don't, so I'm getting another iMac eventually.
 
Congrats on your new PC, hope you'll have a lot of fun with it.

I have a mac pro and a pc running vista and I can tell you they both excellent computer.
 
Why didn't you just get a Mac and run Vista on it until Leopard comes out? You couldn't wait a month for new hardware?

He's been waiting "just another month" for about 8 months... also, there is no evidence at all that hardware updates are imminent.
 
Agreed... I do development on Vista, and I get sick and tired of being asked /3/ times if I really, really, really, want to download that tool from my company's internal websites and install it. I can get it down to two if I turn UAC off, but the software needs to work right with UAC on, so I leave it on. :/

Maybe put your intraweb stuff in a trusted domain in IE?
 
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