i disagree with catalina's overbearing security

[stevemiller]

being told i simply cannot open programs that apple hasn't 'verified' with no indications that this can be overridden is user hostile.

it was only by luck i dug into security preferences immediately after and saw the override option is in there. plus having to do this dance every time i download an app not blessed by apple is extremely cumbersome.

i use my computer as a productivity tool and this behaviour feels designed to solely cater to casual users who "don't know what they're doing"

 

[fisherking]

how often do you download apps? anyway, security is a PITA. meanwhile, you can also disable sip, and definitely, always click on 'unsubscribe' links in suspicious emails. security (like breathing, or crossing a street with your eyes open) is seriously overrated... 🤔

 

[Wolf1701]

Yeah they seem to struggle in defining common user/power user and/or pro/pro in videoediting only categories. Both in hardware and in software. Indeed it's not easy to please anyone but they can do better.

 

[Ritsuka]

It's nothing new. Even previous versions of macOS required properly signed apps.
If the app is unsigned, right-click -> open.

 

[nollimac]

it was only by luck i dug into security preferences immediately after and saw the override option is in there.

i use my computer as a productivity tool and this behaviour feels designed to solely cater to casual users who "don't know what they're doing"

Well, based on what you said, you appeared to be whom it was designed for...pro users would not complain because this had been a security feature in Apple's OS for some time...pro users are very familiar.

 

[stevemiller]

It's nothing new. Even previous versions of macOS required properly signed apps.
If the app is unsigned, right-click -> open.

this is new. you are describing the behaviour in mojave, which i agree was a perfectly reasonable compromise. this new approach goes beyond a reasonable precaution and actively makes its a frustrating amount of work (having to launch preferences).
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how often do you download apps? anyway, security is a PITA. meanwhile, you can also disable sip, and definitely, always click on 'unsubscribe' links in suspicious emails. security (like breathing, or crossing a street with your eyes open) is seriously overrated... 🤔

this sounds like a needlessly hostile response. its actually not for you or apple to decide how often i want/need to download apps. and i'm not asking to remove any and all safeguards; the mojave approach was just fine. this is excessive.

 

[fisherking]

this is new. you are describing the behaviour in mojave, which i agree was a perfectly reasonable compromise. this new approach goes beyond a reasonable precaution and actively makes its a frustrating amount of work (having to launch preferences).
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this sounds like a needlessly hostile response. its actually not for you or apple to decide how often i want/need to download apps. and i'm not asking to remove any and all safeguards; the mojave approach was just fine. this is excessive.

i could swear i'm seeing the same basic behavior here that i experienced in mojave (& someone correct me if that's wrong). either way, whining about it won't change anything, file feedback with apple:

mac os feedback

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"being told i simply cannot open programs that apple hasn't 'verified' with no indications that this can be overridden is user hostile."

Here's the solution:
1. Open terminal
2. Copy the following command and paste it into terminal (then hit return):
sudo spctl --master-disable
3. You must now enter your password (you WILL NOT see it being entered as you type it.) Then hit return again and quit the terminal.
4. Open System Preferences and choose "Security & Privacy".
5. Look at the "general" panel. You should now see "the third choice" ("anywhere") available again.

 

[Unhyper]

OP wrote:
"being told i simply cannot open programs that apple hasn't 'verified' with no indications that this can be overridden is user hostile."

Here's the solution:
1. Open terminal
2. Copy the following command and paste it into terminal (then hit return):
sudo spctl --master-disable
3. You must now enter your password (you WILL NOT see it being entered as you type it.) Then hit return again and quit the terminal.
4. Open System Preferences and choose "Security & Privacy".
5. Look at the "general" panel. You should now see "the third choice" ("anywhere") available again.

I'm not the OP but I am experiencing the same issue, and these steps do not resolve it for me. I've downloaded, again and again, Standard Notes from their official site. I unzip it and move it to /Applications. I've run sudo spctl --master-disable in cli and checked Anywhere in the Security panel.

"The application 'Standard Notes' cannot be opened."

Console produces the following:

Oct 11 15:52:32 MSMAC com.apple.xpc.launchd[1] (com.apple.xpc.launchd.oneshot.0x1000001d.Standard Notes[8718]): Could not find and/or execute program specified by service: 13: Permission denied: /Applications/Standard Notes.app/Contents/MacOS/Standard Notes

As per a suggestion I found elsewhere, I try chmodding the app 755.

Try app again. This time the icon appears in the dock but the system claims that the app is damaged and I should move it to the Bin.

Meanwhile, the console now gave more information:

Oct 11 16:01:46 MSMAC com.apple.xpc.launchd[1] (com.apple.xpc.launchd.oneshot.0x1000001e.Standard Notes[8759]): removing service since it exited with consistent failure - OS_REASON_EXEC | Gatekeeper policy blocked execution

People who have upgraded from a previous macOS version (Mojave->Catalina) have been able to run the application. Mine is a fresh install.

Clearly the sudo spctl --master-disable panacea does not actually stop Gatekeeper's draconian policies to be applied. I'd like to find out which policy that is exactly.

 

[mmomega]

Yeahhhhh, I'm not having that level of annoyance. Most of my non app store apps I install via homebrew, the others I just know I have a one time go in to security and privacy and click open and move on.

Or if catalina pisses you off, install something else.

Live in aggravation or fix it. I choose the latter. TETO.

 

[Project Alice]

OP wrote:
"being told i simply cannot open programs that apple hasn't 'verified' with no indications that this can be overridden is user hostile."

Here's the solution:
1. Open terminal
2. Copy the following command and paste it into terminal (then hit return):
sudo spctl --master-disable
3. You must now enter your password (you WILL NOT see it being entered as you type it.) Then hit return again and quit the terminal.
4. Open System Preferences and choose "Security & Privacy".
5. Look at the "general" panel. You should now see "the third choice" ("anywhere") available again.

First thing I do after installing modern macOS.

Also be advised you'll have to do this again every so often. I can't remember how soon it re-enables itself, I think it's a month or so. But its better than nothing.

For those of that wonder how I feel about new apple/new macs.......
-Sent from my PowerBook G4

 

[LizKat]

-Sent from my PowerBook G4

omg they were the best workhorse, i drove all mine into the ground save one 15" Ti book.

can't decide whether to try to put catalina on a mid 2012 MBP, i know i won't go there without swapping to an SSD, it's slow now in mojave with a spinning drive. needs a new keyboard so i guess it's time to take the plunge.

 

[henryhbk]

I mean it's a simple bypass by right clickin->Openg, which debuted a long time ago for unsigned apps. Not like they are forcing you to only run app-store apps, nor is it a first step there, it's basic safety so maleware can't be as easily launched. Like if you download "MS Word" and it requires a right click/open stop, it's not the real app. And once you've done the right click/open it's forever... And whoever above suggested turning off SIP, that's just a bad idea, like disabling your airbags or whatever, there is some nasty stuff out there that SIP prevents (read latest AVID debacle on mac pros due to SIP being disabled)

 

[Tech198]

being told i simply cannot open programs that apple hasn't 'verified' with no indications that this can be overridden is user hostile.

it was only by luck i dug into security preferences immediately after and saw the override option is in there. plus having to do this dance every time i download an app not blessed by apple is extremely cumbersome.

i use my computer as a productivity tool and this behaviour feels designed to solely cater to casual users who "don't know what they're doing"

Doesn't it work the same way as Mojave...? Right click app and "open"

 

[Ritsuka]

Yes, it works the same.
But apps signed after 1 June needs to be notarized too to pass gatekeeper. If the developer didn't get or ignored the memo and only signed the app, Mojave and Catalina will show the "apple couldn't check this app for malware" warning.
Anyway, it's the developers fault if they distribute apps that can't run on Mojave and Catalina.

 

[canering]

While the security measures are good practice for the average user, it can make more advanced tasks frustrating. For example, it's not always clear which apps need to be manually added to certain categories in the Preferences Pane. Especially something like Full Disk Access. I was having trouble installing things with Applescript/Terminal, but adding the Installer app to Full Disk Access seemed to solve it.

 

[stevemiller]

the terminal command did work in my case, however i see other posts here saying that it will disable itself again after a certain period.

also saying "it a developers fault for not being signed" is an overly simplistic view that doesn't account for people who want/need to be a part of development betas that don't sign every nightly build.

ultimately the message being sent is apple disagrees with this type of user behaviour, throwing up more and more cumbersome and arcane barriers. and fair enough, but it does alienate a certain segment. combined with a bunch of other decisions they're making, i feel like i'm being pushed away from the platform. and i'm saying that as someone who likes apple's systems in general and accepted the compromises in the past.

 

[fisherking]

the terminal command did work in my case, however i see other posts here saying that it will disable itself again after a certain period.

also saying "it a developers fault for not being signed" is an overly simplistic view that doesn't account for people who want/need to be a part of development betas that don't sign every nightly build.

ultimately the message being sent is apple disagrees with this type of user behaviour, throwing up more and more cumbersome and arcane barriers. and fair enough, but it does alienate a certain segment. combined with a bunch of other decisions they're making, i feel like i'm being pushed away from the platform. and i'm saying that as someone who likes apple's systems in general and accepted the compromises in the past.

if you walk away from the platform, that's your choice (and right). but your 'feeling' like you're being pushed away is just that... your feeling.

 

[jgbr]

if you walk away from the platform, that's your choice (and right). but your 'feeling' like you're being pushed away is just that... your feeling.

in the interests of fairness, you've spent most of your time defending apple and specifically Catalina across this forum, so it might be hard for you to feel other peoples frustration.

Catalina wasn't ready for public release and yes all OS have bugs at launch and throughout their lifetimes, but this does appear to have far more many than other Mac OS releases.

People use their machines and need reliability so have every right to find software and OS that are stable. Right now that's Mojave for mac not Catalina

 

[Ritsuka]

also saying "it a developers fault for not being signed" is an overly simplistic view that doesn't account for people who want/need to be a part of development betas that don't sign every nightly build.

No, it's the developer fault because they only signed the app, but didn't notarise it.
If it wasn't signed at all it would have run if you select "Open" in Finder contextual menu.

 

[StellarVixen]

First thing I do after installing modern macOS.

Also be advised you'll have to do this again every so often. I can't remember how soon it re-enables itself, I think it's a month or so. But its better than nothing.

For those of that wonder how I feel about new apple/new macs.......
-Sent from my PowerBook G4

Are you sure? I never had to re-enable it.

 

[fisherking]

in the interests of fairness, you've spent most of your time defending apple and specifically Catalina across this forum, so it might be hard for you to feel other peoples frustration.

Catalina wasn't ready for public release and yes all OS have bugs at launch and throughout their lifetimes, but this does appear to have far more many than other Mac OS releases.

People use their machines and need reliability so have every right to find software and OS that are stable. Right now that's Mojave for mac not Catalina

and yet, lots of people are running catalina, and are fine (or mostly fine). it's transition time (to a fully-64 bit OS) just as moving to intel was a big transition; so yes, not simple for many.

i just don't understand people who make 'absolute' statements, based on their own experiences and opinions. lots of people had issues with mojave (and with every previous OS); it's just business as usual.

 

[nollimac]

the terminal command did work in my case, however i see other posts here saying that it will disable itself again after a certain period.

also saying "it a developers fault for not being signed" is an overly simplistic view that doesn't account for people who want/need to be a part of development betas that don't sign every nightly build.

ultimately the message being sent is apple disagrees with this type of user behaviour, throwing up more and more cumbersome and arcane barriers. and fair enough, but it does alienate a certain segment. combined with a bunch of other decisions they're making, i feel like i'm being pushed away from the platform. and i'm saying that as someone who likes apple's systems in general and accepted the compromises in the past.

Most popular modern OS is now doing the same thing because market expectation dictates. And, man you really make it sound awful for a pro user. I had a similar installation and yes, initially it's annoying but I knew what to do, did it and forgot about it. If it comes up again in a month, I know what to do and pretty sure the intuitive OS would realize the user/administrator says it’s a keeper.

 

[stevemiller]

if you walk away from the platform, that's your choice (and right). but your 'feeling' like you're being pushed away is just that... your feeling.

I mean you can debate semantics if you like, but my primary software has been progressively losing support on the Mac side.

You can also say that’s the developers issue, but ultimately they only wish to support cross platform technologies, which I think is a fair decision on their part. Apple is abandoning opencl and opengl for metal and that means you either develop exclusive for Apple or have a large enough team to dedicate substantial resources specifically to apples platform.

combo that with Apple not working with Nvidia, I’ve actually already seen most of my work peers switch away from Apple.

So no, it’s not just my petulant choice to consider alternatives. Apple used to be a viable platform for myself and others and increasingly it’s not.

 

[jgbr]

I mean you can debate semantics if you like, but my primary software has been progressively losing support on the Mac side.

You can also say that’s the developers issue, but ultimately they only wish to support cross platform technologies, which I think is a fair decision on their part. Apple is abandoning opencl and opengl for metal and that means you either develop exclusive for Apple or have a large enough team to dedicate substantial resources specifically to apples platform.

combo that with Apple not working with Nvidia, I’ve actually already seen most of my work peers switch away from Apple.

So no, it’s not just my petulant choice to consider alternatives. Apple used to be a viable platform for myself and others and increasingly it’s not.

It also makes me think Mojave will end up alittle like snow leopard was , as it will be the last to support 32bit, nvidida driver compat and a pile of other techs that have chucked out with Cat.