I agree, but I think that's an iOS 5 thing at this time. I'm not using anything different than I did on iOS 4 (no location reminders except for the one time I tested them), and my battery is dead by 5 PM, whereas it used to easily last through the day.
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I Feel Substantially Underwhelmed by iOS 5
- Thread starter El3ctronics
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I agree, but I think that's an iOS 5 thing at this time. I'm not using anything different than I did on iOS 4 (no location reminders except for the one time I tested them), and my battery is dead by 5 PM, whereas it used to easily last through the day.
@newagemac: I am sorry for the delay in answering. I was at a concert. Here goes:
If I was lazy to watch the full keynote, you were on the other hand lazy enough to read my answers with attention. I choose my words carefully, so read them with the same degree of care. Most of what you said is stuff I actually said before, or that I agree with.
Regarding the picture posted, I did see the picture before your post. It still says nothing regarding UI interface. What it says, however, is that developers will have at their hand (because the picture is targeted at developers) new tools for designing UI interface within their apps. Never has a developer been allowed to mess with the way the iOS, as an OS, works.
Didn't say anything against that, now did I?; I focused solely on the UI. THAT was my main idea. So this bit is irrelevant; in particular because I fully agree adding the 1500 APIs or the 190 extra features are an important step.
Here's another perfect example of where we agree fully. In fact, let me quote part of my first post in this topic:
Also, regarding Android:
Finally,
So you think Apple should remain on the same UI for eternity? Being "better" doesn't mean being "good". It means being "better than the other one". Being "better" can mean being "bad" if the "other one" is "awful". Note that I am not saying iOS isn't good. It's great. But there's "better" than "great". There's "awesome". There's "fantastic". There's "excellent". There's "phenomenal". There's a lot of different things that Apple, as a company, actually assumes as its own goals.
If it was any other company, I'd let it aside. Companies have no moral obligation to be competent or try to do their best. Companies do what they want and it is none of my, yours, or anyone else's business. However, if a company publicly admits they want to be the Best, and that they struggle and fight for that, then I expect them to deliver that product.
Currently there is virtually nothing in Apple's iOS (we're talking strictly OS here, not Apps) that cannot replicated, in some forms even better, by its main competitor. Apple used to be the one making breakthroughs. OS was a breakthrough when iPhone 2G. Mostly because of what? You guessed it: the UI. The Appstore wasn't even introduced until the iPhone 3G! So you can see how important the UI actually is for a product. And guess what: if its UI wasn't as great as it was at the time, there wouldn't be a good enough user base for a reliable App Store. The reason the App Store is so great is because developers took interest... partly (perhaps mostly?) because of its huge user base. Without the inovative UI Apple presented at the time, you can forget about the AppStore's success today. Another example of UI's importance: Windows Phone 7. With its tiny store, do you think tech folks would be as enthusiastic with it as they are if it wasn't for the UI? If UI isn't important, why do you think Windows 8 will have a huge UI revamp? It's not like it's needed in order for the programs to work as well as they do now.
P.S. Please do not come justifying why you think iOS is better. I know why I think iOS is better. Doesn't change the fact I think the UI is - as I see it - lacking.
Woah, you surely start with a bold sentence there. Apple will probably never change? I wonder why Windows 95 isn't 95 still. Why did it go 98, ME, XP, Vista, 7? Why did OS X go through all those felines? Why did Android go through all those phases? Just "cause"? Note how the UI-main concept didn't change that much; Windows works - in a basic view - the same way it did 10 years ago: it's still icons and windows of icons all over the place. But the way you can do things changed. Before you had no previews on the superbar, no possibilities to install docks, no widgets, no drag-to-expand. The way some tasks were performed is now much more elegant and easy. That doesn't drive away from the main UI concept. In fact, you should (once again) notice how I say on my post:
Want an example of a good UI modification by apple? Multi-touch gestures introduced in iOS 5. Was it enough? In my opinion no. But it was an evolution. Another example? The bottom bar you get to access recent apps (iOS 4). The notification system (iOS 5). These are proof that Apple will not stick to the simplistic grid-of-icons. Apple realizes the importance of the UI: so much that sues Samsung for copying the look and feel of the iDevices.
I am a user. And as a user, I am entitled to an opinion, as long as I justify it correctly. Just like you are. In consciousness, I think I did. It's me, you, and everyone else they are trying to please. So if I am not pleased, and if people feel underwhelmed, it's because they failed at their commitment of being the Best.
I do not know of a "faster, more productive way to access those apps". I do not have to. I am not Apple, I do not assume as a personal goal to be the Best at smartphone industry. I expect Apple to inovate, and not I. If I did Apple's work, why would I pay them or be interested in them in the first place?
One does not need to know the solution to identify a problem.
If I was lazy to watch the full keynote, you were on the other hand lazy enough to read my answers with attention. I choose my words carefully, so read them with the same degree of care. Most of what you said is stuff I actually said before, or that I agree with.
Regarding the picture posted, I did see the picture before your post. It still says nothing regarding UI interface. What it says, however, is that developers will have at their hand (because the picture is targeted at developers) new tools for designing UI interface within their apps. Never has a developer been allowed to mess with the way the iOS, as an OS, works.
Didn't say anything against that, now did I?; I focused solely on the UI. THAT was my main idea. So this bit is irrelevant; in particular because I fully agree adding the 1500 APIs or the 190 extra features are an important step.
Here's another perfect example of where we agree fully. In fact, let me quote part of my first post in this topic:
Also, regarding Android:
You don't get bored of those UIs so easily. Of the apps, perhaps.
Finally,
So you think Apple should remain on the same UI for eternity? Being "better" doesn't mean being "good". It means being "better than the other one". Being "better" can mean being "bad" if the "other one" is "awful". Note that I am not saying iOS isn't good. It's great. But there's "better" than "great". There's "awesome". There's "fantastic". There's "excellent". There's "phenomenal". There's a lot of different things that Apple, as a company, actually assumes as its own goals.
If it was any other company, I'd let it aside. Companies have no moral obligation to be competent or try to do their best. Companies do what they want and it is none of my, yours, or anyone else's business. However, if a company publicly admits they want to be the Best, and that they struggle and fight for that, then I expect them to deliver that product.
Currently there is virtually nothing in Apple's iOS (we're talking strictly OS here, not Apps) that cannot replicated, in some forms even better, by its main competitor. Apple used to be the one making breakthroughs. OS was a breakthrough when iPhone 2G. Mostly because of what? You guessed it: the UI. The Appstore wasn't even introduced until the iPhone 3G! So you can see how important the UI actually is for a product. And guess what: if its UI wasn't as great as it was at the time, there wouldn't be a good enough user base for a reliable App Store. The reason the App Store is so great is because developers took interest... partly (perhaps mostly?) because of its huge user base. Without the inovative UI Apple presented at the time, you can forget about the AppStore's success today. Another example of UI's importance: Windows Phone 7. With its tiny store, do you think tech folks would be as enthusiastic with it as they are if it wasn't for the UI? If UI isn't important, why do you think Windows 8 will have a huge UI revamp? It's not like it's needed in order for the programs to work as well as they do now.
P.S. Please do not come justifying why you think iOS is better. I know why I think iOS is better. Doesn't change the fact I think the UI is - as I see it - lacking.
Woah, you surely start with a bold sentence there. Apple will probably never change? I wonder why Windows 95 isn't 95 still. Why did it go 98, ME, XP, Vista, 7? Why did OS X go through all those felines? Why did Android go through all those phases? Just "cause"? Note how the UI-main concept didn't change that much; Windows works - in a basic view - the same way it did 10 years ago: it's still icons and windows of icons all over the place. But the way you can do things changed. Before you had no previews on the superbar, no possibilities to install docks, no widgets, no drag-to-expand. The way some tasks were performed is now much more elegant and easy. That doesn't drive away from the main UI concept. In fact, you should (once again) notice how I say on my post:
Want an example of a good UI modification by apple? Multi-touch gestures introduced in iOS 5. Was it enough? In my opinion no. But it was an evolution. Another example? The bottom bar you get to access recent apps (iOS 4). The notification system (iOS 5). These are proof that Apple will not stick to the simplistic grid-of-icons. Apple realizes the importance of the UI: so much that sues Samsung for copying the look and feel of the iDevices.
I am a user. And as a user, I am entitled to an opinion, as long as I justify it correctly. Just like you are. In consciousness, I think I did. It's me, you, and everyone else they are trying to please. So if I am not pleased, and if people feel underwhelmed, it's because they failed at their commitment of being the Best.
I do not know of a "faster, more productive way to access those apps". I do not have to. I am not Apple, I do not assume as a personal goal to be the Best at smartphone industry. I expect Apple to inovate, and not I. If I did Apple's work, why would I pay them or be interested in them in the first place?
One does not need to know the solution to identify a problem.
Exactly. I think this is the best way to look at it.
Apple might not change the grid-like display of apps, but maybe make it look more appealing just like what they did with the dock in OS X.
iOS 5 wasn't a surprise, it was more of a "finally, now i can use my phone as a smartphone" type of upgrade. Apple was playing catch up, and everybody knew it. But now they've stabilized themselves. This upgrade put iOS above all the other mobile OS in my eyes.
Exactly, it doesn't need a full overhaul (like Windows 8) but there should at least be some additions & enhancements to the UI to make it feel fresh.
I wasn't directing all of that post at you although it may have seemed like it. Only the fact that they put up a slide showing UI Customization as one of the new features was really directed at you. Mostly it was directed at others on this thread who claim Apple didn't really do much with this update solely because when you look at the home screen you don't see much different.
The reason why the UI Customization for 3rd party developer apps is significant is because that's where people using iOS spend all of their time. Apple is clearly focusing on providing tools for developers to make their apps better (and more customizable) because that is really what matters and that's where people get to see all the customization, nonboredness, and variety that other platforms lack. In the apps themselves.
I chuckle when people claim that the iPhone is boring because it's just a "grid of icons". I have Netflix, the iTunes Store, and Hulu Plus on my home page as one of those grids of icons. So what are they saying? Is the Inception Movie boring? Is the Modern Family tv show boring? Is 30 Rock boring? Are the thousands of tv shows and movies offered by those apps boring? Other items that compose my "grid of icons" include Garageband, iMovie, OmniOutliner, Keynote, Flipboard, Index Card, iThoughtsHD, Adobe Ideas, iMockups, EyeTV, Infinity Blade, Real Racing HD, etc. I'm sorry but I don't find these boring. They are either fun or productive. This is where iOS users spend their time. Immersed in the apps themselves.
This is where all the beauty, variety, customization, productivity, and fun should be. The home page of the OS should just be a tool to get you to all the variety and fun as fast and as intuitively as possible.
I agree with you that the OS should and will continue to evolve with better and better UI elements but as for the concept of the icon grid itself, there really is not much you can improve upon when it comes to a touch based interface. How else are you going to get to your apps faster, easier, and more intuitive?
If you hide the apps and bury them under layers, you end up with the clunkiness and reduced productivity Android is suffering from. Honeycomb is a disaster of an UI implementation. That's a prime example of going for flashiness over usability, functionality, productivity, speed, battery, usability, and user experience. What's even worse is that flashiness like that gets boring even quicker than something more low key. Then you're just left with nothing but negatives.
The bottom line is without apps your device (especially tablets) have no purpose and iOS has outstanding apps and so the UI is designed to feature them. Others will try and deemphasize the apps because it is not their strong point.
My thoughts on your post...
I think a large part of Apple not giving more insight into iOS5 is the fact that they weren't announcing a new iPhone like they usually have. There were rumors that the 3GS wouldn't get iOS5 at all but those were incorrect, so I think it's likely that the iPhone 4 may not get every single feature that iOS5 offers. I'm not sure that would go over well but when does it ever go over well when your current device doesn't get to take advantage of every feature that a newer device does? So maybe there will be parts of iOS5 that will get brought to the forefront with the new iPhone that's likely to be going on sale this fall.
I think a large part of Apple not giving more insight into iOS5 is the fact that they weren't announcing a new iPhone like they usually have. There were rumors that the 3GS wouldn't get iOS5 at all but those were incorrect, so I think it's likely that the iPhone 4 may not get every single feature that iOS5 offers. I'm not sure that would go over well but when does it ever go over well when your current device doesn't get to take advantage of every feature that a newer device does? So maybe there will be parts of iOS5 that will get brought to the forefront with the new iPhone that's likely to be going on sale this fall.
"customise UI" sounds interesting. Does this allow developers to implement a way for users to move UI widgets and buttons in an app to suit the user's preference?
I agree four years of the same design can become boring, especially with such marginal upgrades every year. It also seems that Apple takes its time to include things that other OSs have had for ages.
If you would like an overhaul though, how about you try an Android, see if you like the change? If not you can always go back to your phone. Most carriers have an option for you to return the phone if not satisfied.
On topic, I'm also disappointed with the fact that small app icons aren't included in the status bar for notifications. This is what I'm talking about when I say that Apple takes time to include things that have been around for a long time on other platforms.
If you would like an overhaul though, how about you try an Android, see if you like the change? If not you can always go back to your phone. Most carriers have an option for you to return the phone if not satisfied.
On topic, I'm also disappointed with the fact that small app icons aren't included in the status bar for notifications. This is what I'm talking about when I say that Apple takes time to include things that have been around for a long time on other platforms.
The design is efficient and to counter this argument a little bit, consider OSX, windows and Linux. All for the most part of the same UI since the beginning. What ever changes have been relatively minor.
Now I think iOS UI needs to be update not because its dated but because its too constraining. They're trying to do too much with such a confined layout. The UI is not suited for multitasking and the notifications they're adding so it has a bolted on feeling.
IMO if you change iOS too much, you'll end up killing off a good segment of the market that desires icon based telephony and mobile computing. The iOS icon based system is designed so any idiot can pick up the phone and use it. This however leaves poor people like my mother out of the picture since she can't seem to get the whole "button" concept out of her head. If it doesn't have buttons or a rotary, it ain't a phone .
Apple has a history of evolutional products which build on the base that was set initially. Any good company does this in order to spend less on R&D and to not completely freak out their user base. Unfortunately, that means that there is normally no Revolution and just evolution of the base. For Windows (May god strike down the antiquated filesystem and system registry) this is their one major flaw. They haven't had a revolution in nearly 30 years. At least Apple bought out NEXT in order to make OSX so it would be UNIX based and user-friendly.
For those of us with over 150 apps (ugh, someone please help me organize these damn things), iOS may seem really clunky since we can only have folders with up to 16 icons in them. iOS is also not true multitasking but with Jailbreak and backgrounder, it's pretty much a multitasking monster. The user interface is easy to navigate but doesn't provide up-to-date notifications or streaming information like Android OS. I can't pick up my iPhone and unlock to find a desktop system like Android which is both good and bad. Yes, I can get up-to-date information on Android without launching a single application but the downside is that it takes an extra step every time I need to open an application unless it is on the front desktop.
I think a separate Dashboard application would be a good way to integrate up-to-date information so you can see all of your streaming info at a glance but in terms of optimizing the OS, iOS5 is about as simple as we can get for right now until we figure out a new UI that is easy enough for any idiot.
. Apple has a history of evolutional products which build on the base that was set initially. Any good company does this in order to spend less on R&D and to not completely freak out their user base. Unfortunately, that means that there is normally no Revolution and just evolution of the base. For Windows (May god strike down the antiquated filesystem and system registry) this is their one major flaw. They haven't had a revolution in nearly 30 years. At least Apple bought out NEXT in order to make OSX so it would be UNIX based and user-friendly.
For those of us with over 150 apps (ugh, someone please help me organize these damn things), iOS may seem really clunky since we can only have folders with up to 16 icons in them. iOS is also not true multitasking but with Jailbreak and backgrounder, it's pretty much a multitasking monster. The user interface is easy to navigate but doesn't provide up-to-date notifications or streaming information like Android OS. I can't pick up my iPhone and unlock to find a desktop system like Android which is both good and bad. Yes, I can get up-to-date information on Android without launching a single application but the downside is that it takes an extra step every time I need to open an application unless it is on the front desktop.
I think a separate Dashboard application would be a good way to integrate up-to-date information so you can see all of your streaming info at a glance but in terms of optimizing the OS, iOS5 is about as simple as we can get for right now until we figure out a new UI that is easy enough for any idiot.
It's also been in the jailbroken community for years. I find it essential for notifications. There has been no official release for iOS 5 yet, so we can still always hope.
I honestly think people spend way too much time focusing on UI and flashy gizmos. While the UI is what we interact with, it's not the most important feature. I've never had an Android (my wife had an early 2009 version), so I won't bash on it here. Walking away from an OS because it doesn't include a notification icon is just ridiculous. Whichever OS you like, it really boils down to bigger issues:
1. Does it 'just work' In other words, does it do what you need it to do and do it well?
2. Ecosystem. How much weight do you give to the ecosystem? The music, movies, books, apps, etc.? I for one have spent a ton in iTunes. Therefore, I would only jump ship if the iPhone failed to meet #1 above.
3. System wide integration. Not only within your home, but work, with friends, etc. 80% of all my co-workers sport iPhones. My family uses Apple products. All of them integrate seamlessly for our needs. I.e., AppleTV, AirPlay, Home Sharing, (now, wireless syncing to iTunes), etc.
4. Customer service. Phones break, do you feel the company will stand behind its product. I replaced both mine and my wife's iPhone4 at the Apple Store without questions asked. This is a huge point for me.
5. Company Motivation. This will get the most flaming, but I truly believe Apple is a company of Engineers trying to figure out the best possible user experience. There is no way they can create a single OS and please all 250 million users. Nor can Google with Android. However, I enjoy the fact Apple locks their products down so they can maintain quality control. Others feel differently...and I get that.
Each OS offers its users a particular experience. The UI is only a small part of that experience.
I'm sure when battery technology and other capabilities materialize Apple will re-think what it will or will not put on its iOS software. The cool thing is we can all make our own decisions on where we will spend our money. With the recent changes to iOS, I'll bet Apple will maintain its 250+ million users based on those other issues pointed out above.
1. Does it 'just work' In other words, does it do what you need it to do and do it well?
2. Ecosystem. How much weight do you give to the ecosystem? The music, movies, books, apps, etc.? I for one have spent a ton in iTunes. Therefore, I would only jump ship if the iPhone failed to meet #1 above.
3. System wide integration. Not only within your home, but work, with friends, etc. 80% of all my co-workers sport iPhones. My family uses Apple products. All of them integrate seamlessly for our needs. I.e., AppleTV, AirPlay, Home Sharing, (now, wireless syncing to iTunes), etc.
4. Customer service. Phones break, do you feel the company will stand behind its product. I replaced both mine and my wife's iPhone4 at the Apple Store without questions asked. This is a huge point for me.
5. Company Motivation. This will get the most flaming, but I truly believe Apple is a company of Engineers trying to figure out the best possible user experience. There is no way they can create a single OS and please all 250 million users. Nor can Google with Android. However, I enjoy the fact Apple locks their products down so they can maintain quality control. Others feel differently...and I get that.
Each OS offers its users a particular experience. The UI is only a small part of that experience.
I'm sure when battery technology and other capabilities materialize Apple will re-think what it will or will not put on its iOS software. The cool thing is we can all make our own decisions on where we will spend our money. With the recent changes to iOS, I'll bet Apple will maintain its 250+ million users based on those other issues pointed out above.
I will put this suggestion on a topic that unites all of these: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1167827/
Wow way to bring a mature debate and conversation down to the level of a 5 yr old. Next time you post on this forum, learn to formulate a viewpoint that is backed up by some facts or an explanation of your thought process. Saying "iOS5 sux" is a ridiculously pointless post.