I got a 10w charger with my new iPad.. wtf!?

[Richard8655]

I agree with above. I think we’re making too big a deal out of this. Does a few minutes charge time difference matter that much?

 

[Andres Cantu]

I wonder what kind of chargers the new iPads will come with, since the new iPhones are rumored to come with fast chargers.

Perhaps both the current iPhone and iPad chargers will both be discontinued in favor of that rumored new design fast charger?

 

[rui no onna]

I wonder what kind of chargers the new iPads will come with, since the new iPhones are rumored to come with fast chargers.

Perhaps both the current iPhone and iPad chargers will both be discontinued in favor of that rumored new design fast charger?

With the side effect of killing batteries more quickly.
[doublepost=1528605335][/doublepost]

Apple has bundled a 10W or 12W power adapter since iPad 2. It has always been luck of the draw. That hasn’t changed.

Apple dual-sources their iPad power adapters from two companies, Foxlink and Flextronics. One of them has 10W design while the other produces 12W.

Iirc, they switched to 12W only at a time for the iPad 3/4 after complaints about slow charging/not charging while in use.

 

[Super Xander]

Yikes, seriously? Nevermind not shipping with the 29W fast charger, I would've thought 12W standard for the Pro 12.9 given battery capacity on that is around the same as the iPad 3/4. (Note: my Pro 12.9 purchased via AT&T came with 12W)

Yep. I live in Europe, so I got the 10W, sadly.

 

[Galacticos]

Apple has bundled a 10W or 12W power adapter since iPad 2. It has always been luck of the draw. That hasn’t changed.

Apple dual-sources their iPad power adapters from two companies, Foxlink and Flextronics. One of them has 10W design while the other produces 12W.

Have you got a source
[doublepost=1528625290][/doublepost]I doubt charging would have been adjusted in the latest iOS? - given the battery problems lately..

having the charger changed just made me realise how often I get last minute plans, need to charge to cover a few hours and rely on getting a decent go in 15-30mins

 

[Newtons Apple]

This poor dead horse has been beat senseless.

 

[0906742]

You try too hard.
There is no sense in questioning the laws of physics and Apple itself (*) as it won't change anything.

(*) "Apple confirms that 12W adapter will charge iPads quicker than older 10W adapters".

Again, that is from year 2012! As I said before, I have checked my iPad 2018 charging with included 10W adapter and it only pulls 8,5W while charging, so it does not even use the whole capacity of the charger. So I don't care. You can't push a rope.
I do not notice any difference in charging time compared to my Air with 12W adapter, so again I could not care less.

It is strange to me why peoples compain about 2W smaller charger but no one here seems to care about batteries and how they wear or what capacity is installed in their unit. In my opinion that has much bigger and direct impact on device usability, since it is what you will actually see when you use the device, not to mention about care free life span with good battery. But how many of you stand next to unit waiting for it to charge? I bet no one.

Do the units that came with 12W adapter have bigger 8827 mAh batteries?
My 2018 units with 10W adapter came with smaller 8557 mAh battery. Just a thought, I guess that could make up some (but small) of the difference in charging time also. But again, it does not really mean anything if the device only pulls 8,5W while charging.

Those 12W chargers are sold separately, so if that is really an issue to someone, then why not purchase one?

 

[Jonathantuba]

I’ve got a 10W for my 12.9 iPad Pro. Don’t complain.

I think the 29W is essential for the iPad Pro 12.9”. With even the 12W charger (about 10W), the charge is decreasing from my iPad while in use, even if it is plugged in - crazy!

I think it is a silly cost cutting measure of Apple not to supply the 29W charger as standard with the iPad Pro. I doubt if it would cost them $10 more in manufacturing to have fully satisfied customers.

 

[Newtons Apple]

I think the 29W is essential for the iPad Pro 12.9”. With even the 12W charger (about 10W), the charge is decreasing from my iPad while in use, even if it is plugged in - crazy!

I think it is a silly cost cutting measure of Apple not to supply the 29W charger as standard with the iPad Pro. I doubt if it would cost them $10 more in manufacturing to have fully satisfied customers.

I would say only maybe 1 in 10, or less, 12.9 owners have the 29W charger so there must be a lot of unhappy users . . . I don’t think so!

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Again, that is from year 2012! As I said before, I have checked my iPad 2018 charging with included 10W adapter and it only pulls 8,5W while charging, so it does not even use the whole capacity of the charger. So I don't care. You can't push a rope.
I do not notice any difference in charging time compared to my Air with 12W adapter, so again I could not care less.

It is strange to me why peoples compain about 2W smaller charger but no one here seems to care about batteries and how they wear or what capacity is installed in their unit. In my opinion that has much bigger and direct impact on device usability, since it is what you will actually see when you use the device, not to mention about care free life span with good battery. But how many of you stand next to unit waiting for it to charge? I bet no one.

Do the units that came with 12W adapter have bigger 8827 mAh batteries?
My 2018 units with 10W adapter came with smaller 8557 mAh battery. Just a thought, I guess that could make up some (but small) of the difference in charging time also. But again, it does not really mean anything if the device only pulls 8,5W while charging.

Those 12W chargers are sold separately, so if that is really an issue to someone, then why not purchase one?

Let me start at the end of your post:

1. It might be an issue for some users. The 12W adapter was introduced by Apple with a purpose.
2. You shared your experience with your current device. Reviews, tests (iLounge, 9to5mac, IGM etc.) and experience of other users (amongst others post #15 of rui no onna) reflect that there is a difference between the 10W and 12W chargers in case of iPads.
3. I don't think that "peoples" here are indifferent to the question of batteries. A lot of threads, posts deal with this topic as you were able to witness yourself in a thread started by you on 21 April, 2018 ("Battery wear on new iPad 2018").

Seems you are too preoccupied with this question at least what concerns your activity in MR.
Finally, let me borrow steve23094's words addressed to you in the thread mentioned above:

Or maybe it’s just you. Worrying about something unnecessarily that you don’t really understand.

 

[0906742]

1. It might be an issue for some users. The 12W adapter was introduced by Apple with a purpose.

Surely it can be issue for certain users with devices that can take advantage of more powerful charger.
However I would like to remind you what OP said
”I have since sold it with the charger and bought a 2018 ipad.

Why, oh why, oh why, have I got a 10w charger with this new iPad.”

So in my understanding this thread is about iPad 2018.

2. You shared your experience with your current device.

Of course I did because it was with iPad 2018 which is what this thread is about.

Reviews, tests (iLounge, 9to5mac, IGM etc.)

2012! No relevance to device this thread is about.

and experience of other users (amongst others post #15 of rui no onna) reflect that there is a difference between the 10W and 12W chargers in case of iPads.

The post #15 you mentioned says ”Load is a 2017 iPad Pro 12.9 at 45% charge.”
Again, no relevance to device this thread is about.

Finally, let me borrow steve23094's words addressed to you in the thread mentioned above:

In my opinion those quoted words would work better in this thread.

 

[rui no onna]

That was my first thought at first but since that I have learned it may not be an issue at all.
I have been monitoring battery a lot after having problems with previous units battery weakening very fast, I have also kept track of charging. I noticed that even with 10W charger iPad 2018 never pulls more than around 8,5W during charging. I don't have 12W charger here so I cannot test if it would be any different with that but I doubt, since 10W is able to give you that, so why not pulling even 10W? I bet it does not make any difference in charging time whether you use 10W or 12W with 2018 model.

Anyone want to study their machine charging habits, just download Windows application called iMazing (free part of the software is enough for battery monitoring and give very detailed information about battery and charger, it even tells you the battery serial number and vendor). It would be interesting to hear what results it gives with 12W charger and iPad 2018?

Where was the 8.5W measured? I used a USB meter in between the charger and Lightning cable. There's always some loss when it comes to power transmission and we could be looking at different points on the chain.

Also, I think the iPad starts to pull less power based on % charge. There was a post here showing the progression, I believe. On an iPad, though, so too lazy to do the research. I've got access to an Air 2, Pro 9.7 and 2017 iPad. Gonna test tomorrow to see how they compare. Not the device you have but at least we can establish some patterns.
[doublepost=1528685695][/doublepost]

The post #15 you mentioned says ”Load is a 2017 iPad Pro 12.9 at 45% charge.”
Again, no relevance to device this thread is about.

I think Ulenspiegel's comment was to point out that the 10W and 12W Apple chargers are actually capable of delivering ~10W and ~12W respectively.

Difference is fairly immaterial when charging overnight. Might have more impact when one is, for example, playing a game and the iPad is consuming 8W while charging.

 

[Atomic1977]

Why does it matter. There is only a 3 watt difference. I have a 12 watt charger for my Mini 2.

 

[rui no onna]

My 2018 units with 10W adapter came with smaller 8557 mAh battery. Just a thought, I guess that could make up some (but small) of the difference in charging time also. But again, it does not really mean anything if the device only pulls 8,5W while charging.

What program/app reported 8557 mAh capacity for your iPad? Per Apple specifications, they should have 32.9 Wh (167g) battery same as the 2017 iPad. My 2017 iPad has 8820 mAh total original capacity albeit per Battery Life app, it's now degraded by 7% to 8200 mAh.

https://images.apple.com/legal/more-resources/docs/apple-product-information-sheet.pdf

For quick searching of the PDF:
A1822 iPad 5th gen WiFi
A1823 iPad 5th gen WiFi + Cellular
A1893 iPad 6th gen WiFi
A1954 iPad 6th gen WiFi + Cellular

And yep, looks like the basic iPads have bigger batteries than the Pro 10.5.

 

[0906742]

Where was the 8.5W measured?

This is read directly from iPad internal charging circuit, so there will be likely some small loss from charging circuit what goes in and what it gives out to battery, but I don't expect it to be much. You need a PC and suitable app for that because apps running on iPad are not able to access the most detailed information and they do some rounding anyway.

I used a USB meter in between the charger and Lightning cable. There's always some loss when it comes to power transmission and we could be looking at different points on the chain.

There are of course variables and how accurate that USB meter is but I think the biggest thing is that you have measured different device that can take advantage of even more powerful chargers than 12W. I have been only talking about non pro iPad 2018 which I understood from the OP's first post, is what this thread is about.

Also, I think the iPad starts to pull less power based on % charge. There was a post here showing the progression, I believe.

This is correct. iPad is regulating charge wattage all the time. I does throttle down wattage when battery is nearly full. It also drops it if iPad heat is rising too high. There seems to be many variables (like using it while charging causes unit to heat up and drop charging current to regulate heat), it is definitely not constantly just pushing the same high charge wattage all the time during charge cycle. The mentioned 8.5W is rounded figure as I said, it does hover +/- 0.something lower and higher.

I've got access to an Air 2, Pro 9.7 and 2017 iPad. Gonna test tomorrow to see how they compare. Not the device you have but at least we can establish some patterns.
[doublepost=1528685695][/doublepost]

That would be interesting as iPad 2017 is probably most close to 2018 model but we must understand they are not the same and there might be some difference. I believe some of the latest IOS updates even changed charging somehow, so maybe even SW version causes some difference.

I think Ulenspiegel's comment was to point out that the 10W and 12W Apple chargers are actually capable of delivering ~10W and ~12W respectively.

I have been only talking about what iPad 2018 pulls from the charger. I have no doubt that those both charger are able to give what they read on the labels but important is that how much the device you are charging with it can take. So even if you have 1KW charger, you iPad only pulls wattage what it is programmed to pull - you can't push a rope.

Difference is fairly immaterial when charging overnight. Might have more impact when one is, for example, playing a game and the iPad is consuming 8W while charging.

​

Yes, but even otherwise difference is either non existing or small. I cannot notice any difference in charging time between Air + 12W charger and 2018 + 10W charger and I never charge overnight, or too long.

What program/app reported 8557 mAh capacity for your iPad?

Like I mentioned, you need to use PC + outside app that can read information directly from charging circuit.

My 2017 iPad has 8820 mAh total original capacity albeit per Battery Life app, it's now degraded by 7% to 8200 mAh.

Those apps running on iPad cannot read that, so they just assume all units got 8820 mAh battery. However those apps do give pretty much the same information about battery wear (so, it will be just sugar coated as in 99/100 cases battery is slightly worse than what they say because rounding up go like this: 8701-8799 will be reported as 8800 mAh in those apps). Still there are some values like voltage reported accurate.

 

[crazysword]

Complaining about 2w difference? o_o

It’s 20%. Perharps you should consider the context rather than making snarky comments?

 

[rui no onna]

This is read directly from iPad internal charging circuit, so there will be likely some small loss from charging circuit what goes in and what it gives out to battery, but I don't expect it to be much. You need a PC and suitable app for that because apps running on iPad are not able to access the most detailed information and they do some rounding anyway.​

Around 90% efficiency is pretty good. That suggests power draw at USB to be around 9.4W.

Based on the Wh ratings on Apple's product information, I do believe 8820 mAh actual capacity is accurate. 32.9Wh / 3.73V = 8820 mAh. Do you notice how when you leave the iPad charging overnight and it's 100% when you unplug. Going from 100% to 99% takes a long time but from 99% to 98% or 98% to 97% doesn't take as long? I think 8557 might be design capacity or 100% and the extra 200 or so mAh is allowance/contingency.

Besides, we even have this:
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad+6+Teardown/105416

There are of course variables and how accurate that USB meter is but I think the biggest thing is that you have measured different device that can take advantage of even more powerful chargers than 12W. I have been only talking about non pro iPad 2018 which I understood from the OP's first post, is what this thread is about.

I have been only talking about what iPad 2018 pulls from the charger. I have no doubt that those both charger are able to give what they read on the labels but important is that how much the device you are charging with it can take. So even if you have 1KW charger, you iPad only pulls wattage what it is programmed to pull - you can't push a rope.

I don't believe that's it. For one thing, you wouldn't have people complaining that the 10W charges the 2018 iPad slower than the 12W if that's the case. That's partly what this thread is about. Mainly, it's criticizing Apple for still shipping 10W chargers with their iPads instead of going with 12W standard.

Also, unless you also tested the 2018 iPad with a 12W or higher charger, then you don't know its maximum power draw. That's like plugging the iPad to a 5W charger, seeing the internal circuit reporting only 4.25W and saying the iPad can only draw 4.25W max.
​

Yes, but even otherwise difference is either non existing or small. I cannot notice any difference in charging time between Air + 12W charger and 2018 + 10W charger and I never charge overnight, or too long.

Unless you're actually measuring time, I doubt it's going to be all that noticeable. Theoretically, at 100% efficiency and 0 load, full charge will take around 3:15 on 10W charger and 2:45 on 12W charger. Not something most people would notice.

Obviously, that doesn't take into account actual inefficiencies, standby/use power consumption, trickle charging, etc. For someone doing last minute app updates or downloads while the device is charging before a long trip, the impact of those extra 2W may be more significant.

Mind, for me it doesn't matter. I use Anker 60W 6- or 10-port chargers and never use the included adapter anyway. Multi-port chargers are just much simpler when charging multiple devices simultaneously (usually overnight).

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Surely it can be issue for certain users with devices that can take advantage of more powerful charger.
However I would like to remind you what OP said
”I have since sold it with the charger and bought a 2018 ipad.
Why, oh why, oh why, have I got a 10w charger with this new iPad.”
So in my understanding this thread is about iPad 2018.
Of course I did because it was with iPad 2018 which is what this thread is about.
2012! No relevance to device this thread is about.
The post #15 you mentioned says ”Load is a 2017 iPad Pro 12.9 at 45% charge.”
Again, no relevance to device this thread is about.
In my opinion those quoted words would work better in this thread.

Your perception is wrong. The thread is about the iPad's 10W charger, not the device.

Adequately the posts dealt with the charger (10W, 12W respectively) and the difference between them.
It's a pity that it escaped your attention after 40 replies in the thread.

The quoted words of steve23094 addressed to you are relevant as you started a debate based on your "bet" that there was no difference between the chargers, though you don't have a 12W charger and never tested it with your iPad.

...I don't have 12W charger here so I cannot test if it would be any different with that but I doubt, since 10W is able to give you that, so why not pulling even 10W? I bet it does not make any difference in charging time whether you use 10W or 12W...

P.S.: What a discrepancy in the light of your post #36 that your own first reply (#10) deals with the chargers and not the device.

 

[rui no onna]

Data time.

All iPads were in the 50-55% charge level for this test. Also tested power draw from the wall with a Kill-A-Watt type device (Belkin Conserve Insight). The cable used is an Anker PowerLine+ II Lightning Cable 6ft.


Apple 10W Charger

iPad Air 2
Wall: 13W
USB Meter: 4.9V * 2A = 9.8W

iPad Pro 9.7
Wall: 13W
USB Meter: 4.9V * 2A = 9.8W

iPad 5th generation
Wall: 13W
USB Meter: 4.9V * 2A = 9.8W


Apple 12W Charger

iPad Air 2
Wall: 14W
USB Meter: 5V * 2.3A = 11.5W

iPad Pro 9.7
Wall: 14W
USB Meter: 5V * 2.3A = 11.5W

iPad 5th generation
Wall: 14W
USB Meter: 5V * 2.3A = 11.5W

 

[bopajuice]

I feel you man. Cook is just out for money. Don't know when will his greed be satisfied. I know, at this age, he should have had a more philanthropic and generous heart, but damn, the greed of business is just too enveloping. And to top that, there is no innovation happening that we are liking.

I mean, apart from the wonderful P3 display in the new MacBooks, good battery life, Touch Bar with its dynamic control options, Touch ID and Secure Enclave now on the Mac, what else have they done?

And lets not get into software. iOS 11 was a joke, iOS 12 even more so with no innovation at all. So what if it feels fast and fluid in beta 1, promises excellent performance right down to 2013 devices, and brings some features (battery graphs, better DND, Screen Time, better password management)? Bloody hell, where is Apple heading with no innovation at all!

macOS is in a similar dilapidated state. With 10.14, so what if they brought Desktop Stacks, a wonderful way to bunch up the clutter on the desktops and one that works so fluidly! So what if we can now have 3 recent apps in the Dock, dynamically changing, and this can potentially save us from launching Launchpad more frequently or typing out the name in Spotlight? So what if the memory usage was brought down by at least 2GB in beta 1, where High Sierra constantly used to eat close to 7GB standard with no programs open? Damn, they still come with 8GB standard, we need 16 standard and 32 optional otherwise no innovation is happening.

So what if MAS in 10.14 now looks so much more beautiful, so less cluttered, and so more content-focussed? So what if it works so fast now! So what! We need damn innovation that we will like, man! Not innovation that will help us in any tangible-intangible way, but innovation that we will like!

I feel you, man, I feel you. This bean counting attitude of Tim Cook with creating a lottery of wattage in adapters in the pack is just the attitude that will take Apple down once day. I know. If only Jobs..


More seriously,

Return the device if those 2w are consequential to you, and learn from the experience. Make notes - checklist to ask before handing out the credit card - using any of the excellent in-built apps or third party apps - so that you can be more informed and happier with the purchase next time. This way, when you buy a new iPad, you can go through the checklist and confirm with the sales rep beforehand, what wattage ships currently. Really, for you, it is a no-brainer.

It gets more anguishing in places like India with no return window. We are stuck with what we got if we are displeased with the purchase, since we have no way of returning it.

Aside from the Touch Bar (Which many feel is a gimmick and of little use) the rest of what you describe as wonderful, fluid, more beautiful, are just minor improvements and a few new features to EXISTING products and software. I can't wait to use Emojis in a corporate setting, or when I send a sample of my product to a customer with me talking as a dog.

I think the OP is looking for innovation. HomePod - late to the game, wireless charging - late to the game, EarPods - (Im sure they sound great) but to me they look like broken pencils sticking out of your ears. Laptop processors are always a generation behind. Keyboards with issues. Products such as MacBook Air and Mac Mini are almost too old to sell to the public with a straight face, yet they cost as much or more than the most recent hardware. They canceled their wireless networking products. Now we have to look for alternative products just to use the Apple provided Time Machine feature on our Mac OS products.

The latest keynote was obviously geared towards iOS and iOS products. The MacOS dark mode feature is something I am interested in, but other than that, not much else of use to me. I am most concerned if Mojave will be stable. There used to be a time I was excited to update to the latest OS as soon as it came out. Not anymore. I wait sometimes months to see how the other "Guinea pigs" are fairing before I upgrade. It's a sad fact of Apple life nowadays.

It's all a matter of perspective, some are not impressed and pessimistic, some such as yourself are satisfied and over the top about what they are giving us users.

As another poster said, some are satisfied with less, making it easier for Tim to make more money, but I say to that person if you demand more from Apple but they offer you less, and you accept less innovation, or wait for Apple to play the catch up "But we do it better" game, what choice do you have but to covet the crumbs they give us.

There are a lot of people who are looking for new ideas and real innovation. Unfortunately mobile products seems to be where the money is. There may be innovation there, but not everyone walks around with their phone under their nose all day, or writes about the their infatuation with a mobile device. To each their own I guess.

I think the 10w charger was left over stock they included with current products.

[doublepost=1528734239][/doublepost]

my old iPad Air came with a 12w charger.
I have since sold it with the charger and bought a 2018 ipad.

Why, oh why, oh why, have I got a 10w charger with this new iPad. It’s much! slower.

To save a lot of time and complaining on this thread, I'd like to know if anyone has compared a 10w to a 12w charger? How much longer does it take to fully charge a device with a 10w source? I'm guessing a few minutes or less. As another poster has pointed out, the higher the rate of charging the quicker your battery wears out. At least thats what I learned in years past dealing with lipo charging and chargers.

 

[rui no onna]

I think the 10w charger was left over stock they included with current products.

Nah. It's been 6 years since the iPad 3 was released. I doubt they'd have overstock from that far back. I believe Apple uses two suppliers for the iPad chargers. Foxlink: 10W and Flextronics: 12W.

Mind, the last six iPads we purchased, only 1 out 6 came with a 10W charger. All others shipped with 12W. Perhaps Flextronics is the preferred supplier and Apple falls back to Foxlink when there's heavy demand?
[doublepost=1528735072][/doublepost]

To save a lot of time and complaining on this thread, I'd like to know if anyone has compared a 10w to a 12w charger? How much longer does it take to fully charge a device with a 10w source? I'm guessing a few minutes or less. As another poster has pointed out, the higher the rate of charging the quicker your battery wears out. At least thats what I learned in years past dealing with lipo charging and chargers.

Depends on the device. Difference is bound to be less noticeable with lower capacity batteries. On 10" class iPads, my guess is around 30 minutes for full charge? As I mentioned, I use a 3rd party charger. Besides, I'm usually asleep while my devices are charging.

The more important distinction is for example, on a Pro 12.9 (there was a Pro 12.9 owner on this thread who reported getting a 10W charger). It's possible if one uses that iPad while it's plugged in to a 10W charger that it won't even charge at all because power consumption >= power provided by the charger.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Data time.

All iPads were in the 50-55% charge level for this test. Also tested power draw from the wall with a Kill-A-Watt type device (Belkin Conserve Insight). The cable used is an Anker PowerLine+ II Lightning Cable 6ft.


Apple 10W Charger

iPad Air 2
Wall: 13W
USB Meter: 4.9V * 2A = 9.8W

iPad Pro 9.7
Wall: 13W
USB Meter: 4.9V * 2A = 9.8W

iPad 5th generation
Wall: 13W
USB Meter: 4.9V * 2A = 9.8W


Apple 12W Charger

iPad Air 2
Wall: 14W
USB Meter: 5V * 2.3A = 11.5W

iPad Pro 9.7
Wall: 14W
USB Meter: 5V * 2.3A = 11.5W

iPad 5th generation
Wall: 14W
USB Meter: 5V * 2.3A = 11.5W

rui no onna, thanks for taking your time and testing the chargers.
The data provided seems to be in unison with your previous test, i.e. there is a difference between the power provided by the 10W and 12W charger.

 

[jimmirehman]

2w makes or breaks the charging experience!?!?!? Give me a break. Call the Whambulance.

 

[rui no onna]

As a lark, tried using the iPhone charger. Same setup/state as previous tests.

Apple 5W Charger

iPad Air 2
Wall: 5.7W
USB Meter: 4.9V * 0.95A = 4.65W

iPad Pro 9.7
Wall: 5.7W
USB Meter: 4.9V * 0.95A = 4.65W

iPad 5th generation
Wall: 5.7W
USB Meter: 4.9V * 0.95A = 4.65W

Lol, talk about slow charging.

 

[StarShot]

Why, oh why, oh why, have I got a 10w charger with this new iPad. It’s much! slower.

I don't see any claims as to how much slower a 10W is verses a 12W. Regardless, if you really need the 12W, there are a zillion of them for sale on eBay starting under $7 including free shipping.